disch said:

Do you not think she has access to far more data (not to mention professional training, unless you're an ME) than we do? For example: She has direct access to his full toxicology reports, plus she conducted a detailed physical exam including of his internal organ. We have no access to any of that info, nor, I'm assuming, the exptertise to evaluate it fully. But you're ready, based on "anecdotal quotes" from sources you don't cite or name, to speculate that she was not competent here?

fortuneandserendipity said:

She took the reductionist approach. Did she botch it or lie? Well if I was her, going off the numerous anecdotal quotes relating to this case, I would have put 'multiple drug interactions' even if the fentanyl alone would have killed him. Anything else is misleading.

She was being deliberately reductionist. That's all I'm going say.

Oh ok. I guess "that's all I'm going to say" is a pretty persuasive case as to my the ME would lie.

fortuneandserendipity said:

disch said:

Do you not think she has access to far more data (not to mention professional training, unless you're an ME) than we do? For example: She has direct access to his full toxicology reports, plus she conducted a detailed physical exam including of his internal organ. We have no access to any of that info, nor, I'm assuming, the exptertise to evaluate it fully. But you're ready, based on "anecdotal quotes" from sources you don't cite or name, to speculate that she was not competent here?

She was being deliberately reductionist. That's all I'm going say.

---

By Jayme Deerwester , USA TODAY 3:30 p.m. EDT October 6, 2016

"...[Tyka Nelson] is well aware that the wound is still raw for many fans...

...“I've had two years to deal with it,” she explains, “but there's a lot of people that have only had from April to now, so I guess I would say give it another year and a half and maybe you'll be where I'm at. I'm sorry that you're hurting”..."

---

Who here on prince.org feels that they are on track for the sister's 18 month prediction?

I'll go first...

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm boasting. But only a few days after April 21st {thanks to this}, my acceptance of the tragedy was where the sister says hers was when she got the call.

Going by the majority of this thread's interpretations of the sister's ET interview comments, I foresee — {sadly for them} — the sister's 18 month prediction is never gonna come to pass for 99% of the fans in this thread.

Superconductor said:

"...Thanks phatphuk (lol what a user name) and sonshine and others. The facts are the facts, that is all we know. The one page autopsy report clearly said accident, fentanyl toxicity. This means Prince did not know he took a lethal dose of fentanyl. And that means no suicide. It also means Prince didn't know he was dying

It's a traditional Vietnamese name. It means Happy Buddha.

disch said:

Fortune sounds like you feel the medical examiner really botched this and that she completely missed what you feel is the clear "preponderance of evidence." Why do you think she got it so wrong? fortuneandserendipity said:

The problem is, the one fact we do know for sure (fentanyl toxicity) doesn't square with all the preponderant evidence pertinent to the surrounding circumstances. By which I mean the numerous accounts pertaining to other substances, themselves potently toxic.

The death certificate is misleading and asks more questions than it answers. You simply can't rule out suicide. You yourself said that it made no sense, that P's death was bizarre as his life was bizarre. In other words, there's a lot we don't know. But to me, the situation taken as a whole seems to point to suicide.

Accidental is the default position for an OD. If it was called accidental then there is no evidence for the other options. Intention would have to be crystal clear (e.g. past attempts/suicide note) for suicide to be called. That is the way it always works.

.

The one page autopsy report clearly said accident, fentanyl toxicity.
This means Prince did not know he took a lethal dose of fentanyl.
And that means no suicide. It also means Prince didn't know he was dying.

It does not tell us anything about what he knew or did not know or the general state of his health. It says only that he died from fentanyl toxicity with no evidence that it was intentional.

KaresB said:

This gave me a good chuckle and smile. You're right too 🙂 Good post. [b]

MMJas said:

Ok. Maybe I'm slow, but what does this mean?

Oh so fortuneandserendipity and sunset3121 know better than the med examiner and the police. Even though neither of you were at the scene, saw the evidence, undertook or read the autopsy report, spoke to his private doctors and were a close friend.

The one page autopsy report that is public is not a death certificate, btw. It is a one page summary.

The other boxes that were ticked beside accident were contributing factors (n/a) and underlying causes (n/a).

For me personally it is actually much easier to accept and makes the most sense that he died of an accidental OD of illicit painkillers than he suicided or the illuminati killed him. Means that he wasn't holier than thou which is great because it means he was human, a genius human. Utterly amazing in one aspect of his life and screwed up big in another.

phatphuk said:

anangellooksdown said:

MMJas said:

I eat light.

Then...

that will hit you tomorrow.

Ok. Maybe I'm slow, but what does this mean?

He says, 'You are what you eat...I eat light' etc etc.

.

His whole speech leading up to this was bascially creating a metpahor, with Paisley Park as a representation of heaven (he's done that before, in the song 'Paisley Park', for example).

.

He was, in essence, aligning himself with God / going to the light - and asking others to 'see the light', the truth, God...

.

The way he was framing it all made it sound as though he wasn't planning on seeing the Amsterdam contingent again - at least not on this Earthly realm - until we meet again in heaven, which they'll find if they allow themselves to be 'shown the way' / 'see the light'. (Those latter two phrases are basically the ones he uses).

.

Then he releases his purple balloons - in silence - to conclude the show.

.

disch said:

Oh ok. I guess "that's all I'm going to say" is a pretty persuasive case as to my the ME would lie.

fortuneandserendipity said:

She was being deliberately reductionist. That's all I'm going say.

Unless all of the unconfirmed reports were nonsense, there is no way fentanyl was the only toxic substance found.

[Edited 10/8/16 16:17pm]

i'd have to agree with some of the people who say that tyka doesn't seem "very bright", it's not her fault but her brother was a great genius, like any genius, they don't necessarily come from exceptional families/circumstances. hopefully she gets good counsel, it would be even more tragic if what happened with Jimi Hendrix's estate happened with Prince. The money men came and just raked Jimi's family over the coals for a good 30 years, Jimi's father was a simple man, none too bright himself and most likely didn't really even understand the greatness of his son like his fans did.

another thing, there will be so much money to be made, there is not way the fans are going to be happy with it. It will be exploitive, it's just the nature of the beast. Bruce Lee's family has done what I think isn't a horrible job with his legacy and yet they are constantly called sellouts and all kinds of names. His widow is a smart woman who I think at least had some respect and understanding for bruce's art. Still, fans are bitching about how they are selling bruce lee sunglasses and such. when it comes to that money, there will always be griping.

That's not what the autopsy report implies. It says that only fentanyl toxicity caused his death (per the Star-Tribune, his fentanyl levels were so high, no one could have survived that amount). There may have been other substances found but the ME determined they didn't contribute to the fatality.

fortuneandserendipity said:

disch said:

Oh ok. I guess "that's all I'm going to say" is a pretty persuasive case as to my the ME would lie.

Unless all of the unconfirmed reports were nonsense, there is no way fentanyl was the only toxic substance found.

[Edited 10/8/16 16:17pm]

disch said:

That's not what the autopsy report implies. It says that only fentanyl toxicity caused his death (per the Star-Tribune, his fentanyl levels were so high, no one could have survived that amount). There may have been other substances found but the ME determined they didn't contribute to the fatality.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Unless all of the unconfirmed reports were nonsense, there is no way fentanyl was the only toxic substance found.

[Edited 10/8/16 16:17pm]

People die from multiple drug interactions all the time. So there's every possiblity. And the Star Tribune source is an unconfirmed report. As for "There may have been other substances found". That's the whole point really? the secrecy!? And it's been that way for getting on 6 months.

disch said:

That's not what the autopsy report implies. It says that only fentanyl toxicity caused his death (per the Star-Tribune, his fentanyl levels were so high, no one could have survived that amount). There may have been other substances found but the ME determined they didn't contribute to the fatality.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Unless all of the unconfirmed reports were nonsense, there is no way fentanyl was the only toxic substance found.

[Edited 10/8/16 16:17pm]

But what we've seen isn't the autopsy report. It is a very simple public 'listing' / record of death.

.

It is by its very nature intended to be a wholly simplified, very basic telling of the key causal factor in death, its target audience being the media and public.

.

I think I read that the ME (in Minnesota) is under no obligation to list all other medications in the deceased's system, if he / she can reduce it down to one which, for whatever reason, would have been sufficient to be fatal in itself - even if the others played a part in increasing the toxicity of the primary drug listed.

.

People do die of multiple drug interactions all the time, but the ME ruled the in this case, the cause was fentanyl toxicity.

fortuneandserendipity said:

disch said:

That's not what the autopsy report implies. It says that only fentanyl toxicity caused his death (per the Star-Tribune, his fentanyl levels were so high, no one could have survived that amount). There may have been other substances found but the ME determined they didn't contribute to the fatality.

People die from multiple drug interactions all the time. So there's every possiblity. And the Star Tribune source is an unconfirmed report. As for "There may have been other substances found". That's the whole point really? the secrecy!? And it's been that way for getting on 6 months.

I believe Tyka was nervous. Can you imagine the pressure she might've felt?
I also feel there was somewhat of a desire to continue the mystery - and the strength - that her brother was.
She also might be in shock of sorts. I would be if I had lost my brother and had so much to do. From the get-go she was being demanded of.
Handling someone else's estate is hard work under normal circumstances. This had to be a lot, even if she tried to prepare.
She's trying to keep everyone happy and that's not going to be possible. So all she can do is the best she can do.
I believe some of the criticism about what to do and how to do it will be helpful in a way, but overall I hope people support her as a human being. This is Prince's sister we're talking about and he loved her.

We've seen the report signed by the medical examiner, Dr. A. Quinn Strobl, that lists the conclusions of her death investigation, based on the autopsy that she conducted (as noted by the Yes on the Autopsy Conducted line, above the Manner checkboxes). This includes her determination of the manner and cause of death. The full autopsy would not list a different manner and cause of death. (We've also seen Prince's separate death certificate, which takes much of its info from ME's autopsy conclusions.)

-

I sent an email directly to the ME's office a while back asking about "Other significant conditions line" that says: “na.” The office replied: “All other important diseases, conditions, or risk factors that were present at the time of death or pre-existed in the deceased and that may have contributed to the death or event of death (if a traumatic or toxic death) may be listed in the other significant conditions section.”

Dibblekins said:

disch said:

That's not what the autopsy report implies. It says that only fentanyl toxicity caused his death (per the Star-Tribune, his fentanyl levels were so high, no one could have survived that amount). There may have been other substances found but the ME determined they didn't contribute to the fatality.

But what we've seen isn't the autopsy report. It is a very simple public 'listing' / record of death.

.

It is by its very nature intended to be a wholly simplified, very basic telling of the key causal factor in death, its target audience being the media and public.

.

I think I read that the ME (in Minnesota) is under no obligation to list all other medications in the deceased's system, if he / she can reduce it down to one which, for whatever reason, would have been sufficient to be fatal in itself - even if the others played a part in increasing the toxicity of the primary drug listed.

.

disch said:

We've seen the report signed by the medical examiner, Dr. A. Quinn Strobl, that lists the conclusions of her death investigation, based on the autopsy that she conducted (as noted by the Yes on the Autopsy Conducted line, above the Manner checkboxes). This includes her determination of the manner and cause of death. The full autopsy would not list a different manner and cause of death. (We've also seen Prince's separate death certificate, which takes much of its info from ME's autopsy conclusions.)

-

I sent an email directly to the ME's office a while back asking about "Other significant conditions line" that says: “na.” The office replied: “All other important diseases, conditions, or risk factors that were present at the time of death or pre-existed in the deceased and that may have contributed to the death or event of death (if a traumatic or toxic death) may be listed in the other significant conditions section.”

Dibblekins said:

But what we've seen isn't the autopsy report. It is a very simple public 'listing' / record of death.

.

It is by its very nature intended to be a wholly simplified, very basic telling of the key causal factor in death, its target audience being the media and public.

.

I think I read that the ME (in Minnesota) is under no obligation to list all other medications in the deceased's system, if he / she can reduce it down to one which, for whatever reason, would have been sufficient to be fatal in itself - even if the others played a part in increasing the toxicity of the primary drug listed.

.

The ME office are not going to tell you anything different from what's in the public declaration!! That's just common sense. In her referencing fentanyl only, it would make sense to keep things that simple, as per minnesota law. As dibblekins pointed out, she's under no obligation to disclose anything further.

disch said:

We've seen the report signed by the medical examiner, Dr. A. Quinn Strobl, that lists the conclusions of her death investigation, based on the autopsy that she conducted (as noted by the Yes on the Autopsy Conducted line, above the Manner checkboxes). This includes her determination of the manner and cause of death. The full autopsy would not list a different manner and cause of death. (We've also seen Prince's separate death certificate, which takes much of its info from ME's autopsy conclusions.)

-

I sent an email directly to the ME's office a while back asking about "Other significant conditions line" that says: “na.” The office replied: “All other important diseases, conditions, or risk factors that were present at the time of death or pre-existed in the deceased and that may have contributed to the death or event of death (if a traumatic or toxic death) may be listed in the other significant conditions section.”

Dibblekins said:

But what we've seen isn't the autopsy report. It is a very simple public 'listing' / record of death.

.

It is by its very nature intended to be a wholly simplified, very basic telling of the key causal factor in death, its target audience being the media and public.

.

I think I read that the ME (in Minnesota) is under no obligation to list all other medications in the deceased's system, if he / she can reduce it down to one which, for whatever reason, would have been sufficient to be fatal in itself - even if the others played a part in increasing the toxicity of the primary drug listed.

.

.

And there is your key phrase - MAY be listed. Not WILL be listed - but MAY - in other words, it is up to the discretion of the medical examiner, depending on whether, in his / her view, the one medication was present in sufficient quantity to cause death in and of itself.

.

Superconductor said:

Oh so fortuneandserendipity and sunset3121 know better than the med examiner and the police. Even though neither of you were at the scene, saw the evidence, undertook or read the autopsy report, spoke to his private doctors and were a close friend. The one page autopsy report that is public is not a death certificate, btw.

I have not said I know better than the medical examiner or the police. I responded to a statement that the public information report of accidental fentanyl toxicity was misleading because suicide could not be ruled out by saying that it is the default position. With no evidence to the contrary they would not rule it in nor comment on it's possibility.

I also responded to the following:

It also means Prince didn't know he was dying.

By saying: "It does not tell us anything about what he knew or did not know or the general state of his health. It says only that he died from fentanyl toxicity with no evidence that it was intentional"

.

As neither the police nor the ME have provided details about the state of his health or if he knew he was dying, this is not saying I know better than the ME or police.

.

The other boxes that were ticked beside accident were contributing factors (n/a) and underlying causes (n/a).

By saying there were no contributing factors or underlying causes to the fentanyl toxicity does not mean he was otherwise completely healthy and had no illness that might cause his death in the next hour or the next day/week/year etc. It means he did not die from the fentanyl because he was weakened from some other factor or that drug interactions led to toxicity, but that the dose of fentanyl alone was enough to kill anyone.

.

For me personally it is actually much easier to accept and makes the most sense that he died of an accidental OD of illicit painkillers.... Means that he wasn't holier than thou which is great

The public information report and death certificate may say "fentanyl toxicity" but without the full autopsy report, we do not know why P prepared Tyka for his death in 2014. That leaves it open to interpretation so until it is published or more information is provided you can believe what you like.

[Edited 10/8/16 18:04pm]

sunset3121 said:

Superconductor said:

Oh so fortuneandserendipity and sunset3121 know better than the med examiner and the police. Even though neither of you were at the scene, saw the evidence, undertook or read the autopsy report, spoke to his private doctors and were a close friend. The one page autopsy report that is public is not a death certificate, btw.

I have not said I know better than the medical examiner or the police. I responded to a statement that the public information report of accidental fentanyl toxicity was misleading because suicide could not be ruled out by saying that it is the default position. With no evidence to the contrary they would not rule it in nor comment on it's possibility.

I also responded to the following:

By saying there were no contributing factors or underlying causes to the fentanyl toxicity does not mean he was otherwise completely healthy and had no illness that might cause his death in the next hour or the next day/week/year etc. It means he did not die from the fentanyl because he was weakened from some other factor or that drug interactions led to toxicity, but that the dose of fentanyl alone was enough to kill anyone.

.

For me personally it is actually much easier to accept and makes the most sense that he died of an accidental OD of illicit painkillers.... Means that he wasn't holier than thou which is great

The public information report and death certificate may say "fentanyl toxicity" but without the full autopsy report, we do not know why P prepared Tyka for his death in 2014. That leaves it open to interpretation so until it is published or more information is provided you can believe what you like.

[Edited 10/8/16 18:04pm]

See below addtional proof that Prince knew he was dying two years ago. Tyka is saying she had two years to greive she was not grieving because he was retiring from music. The information below shows that he was preparing to not be around as it all took place two years ago. Prince did not know he was going to overdose on mislabled pills two years ago.

There is a crazy man named Rodney Dixion who claims he has power of attorney over all of Prince’s music. Now he has crazy ass documents in his claim most of which is total nonsense however he has pulled some information from the copyright office that explains how Prince made sure his music would not be affected by the Probate process. Please see the Estate 4 topic to see all of the great people who pulled this together.

See the link below. See Exhibit A, B, and E

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...randum.pdf

Exhibit A is an 'exclusive songwriter agreement' dated April 2014 in which Prince assigns all copyright to NPG Music ( Prince's own company). As this is around the time Prince announced getting his masters back from WB , this must have been part of the business side of getting this all set up.

Exhibit B is a copyright form (public document) registering all 965 songs to NPG music. Dated Feb 4 2016. so recent! As 965 sounds about right in terms of the total number of songs Prince had registered, this seems to be about him changing the registration from his own name to NPG as the copyright owner, I guess aligning it all to the new agreement with NPG.

Exhibit E is a public document recording that NPG Music Publishing is being set up as an LLC in California, dated march 2014.

It would appear that the LLC owns the songs and I would bet money that Prince’s siblings are the shareholders. This would mean that the songs will not be affected by whatever happens to the estate. I believe he saw the foolishness with his Dad’s estate and found a why to get around the courts and protect his music.

Let’s discuss and think about how he did all this two years ago right around the time he told his sister he was done.

sunmooonandstars said:

Just watched the interview. Tyka said she had been preparing for his passing for 2 years. She said he told her that he had done everything that he was born to do. Broke my heart to hear that

That really surprised me also to hear her say that.

teach49 said:

Mumio said:

She absolutely was legitimate.

Can you say how you know she was legitimate? I'm just curious.

On the one hand, it sounds like a crazy story that she just made up. OTOH, it also sounds just like something Prince would do (tell an acquaintance not to travel to abroad and why but not tell someone like JH).

If she is legit, then Prince should have picked his friends better since this one had loose lips lol.

PeteSilas said:

TopazGirl said:

Yes, I remember that and I thought it was bullshiz. Respectfully ladygirl99, I honestly don't think some random woman would know something like that about Prince, but yet someone like Judith Hill didn't know a thing. Judith was completely shocked by his death and the plane incident. And yes, I believe it was mentioned this woman was supposedly a possible real acquaintance of Prince's. Also, I have a hard time believing that a woman who would be priviledged enough to know something so personal about Prince would come on the Org and blurt all of this out as well as go further yet by posting screen shots of a supposed and mostly one-sided (her) conversation she had with Prince on Twitter(?) or Facebook(?) (can't remember exactly which, sorry). It seemed like overkill to prove herself when no one provoked her too. Why would someone that close to Prince do something like that? That's how I reasoned it and came to the conclusion not to believe it.

[Edited 10/7/16 17:26pm]

[Edited 10/7/16 17:27pm]

she probably got banned, i recall a couple posters calling her out on what she was saying and how easy it is to fake twitter pages, then they told her if she has any real info she should go to law enforcement. she was a phoney, i remember one lady tried to say prince fell for her and she had him crying and shit, some nutty people on here. I still wonder what happened to zelaira, maybe she passed or got committed or something.

Ah, ok. Yeah, it's hard to know what to believe anymore. This zelaira person... "...she had him crying and shit" omg, that struck me as funny as hell just reading it lol. Dammit, I miss all the good stuff.

sunset3121 said:

You just can't take facts at face value and have to spin some fantasy "interpretation" that Prince knew he was dying and "prepared" Tyka for his death.

TopazGirl said:

PeteSilas said:

she probably got banned, i recall a couple posters calling her out on what she was saying and how easy it is to fake twitter pages, then they told her if she has any real info she should go to law enforcement. she was a phoney, i remember one lady tried to say prince fell for her and she had him crying and shit, some nutty people on here. I still wonder what happened to zelaira, maybe she passed or got committed or something.

Ah, ok. Yeah, it's hard to know what to believe anymore. This zelaira person... "...she had him crying and shit" omg, that struck me as funny as hell just reading it lol. Dammit, I miss all the good stuff.

the woman was believable for awhile and she had us going, just little details seemed to ring true, but then she had to take it too far, ya, him crying over her.. too fucking far. anyway, i do wonder what happened to zelaira, she fell off the face of the earth, she was amusing though , i once told her I had a prince mask and we could get busy, she never replied to that. this other woman? the one from a few mos ago? I looked at her facebook, she looks nutty as a fruitcake.

Superconductor said:

sunset3121 said:

The public information report and death certificate may say "fentanyl toxicity" but without the full autopsy report, we do not know why P prepared Tyka for his death in 2014. That leaves it open to interpretation so until it is published or more information is provided you can believe what you like.

[Edited 10/8/16 18:04pm]

You just can't take facts at face value and have to spin some fantasy "interpretation" that Prince knew he was dying and "prepared" Tyka for his death.

that kinda sounds like what she was saying though, but then again, like i said, she don't seem too bright and probably doesn't have the best way of saying things. It's a strange, cryptic statement as are her flat emotions, just weird. I know prince could be like that but there was a heart under it all, tyka seems really really cold.

Superconductor said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

The problem is, the one fact we do know for sure (fentanyl toxicity) doesn't square with all the preponderant evidence pertinent to the surrounding circumstances. By which I mean the numerous accounts pertaining to other substances, themselves potently toxic.

The death certificate is misleading and asks more questions than it answers. You simply can't rule out suicide. You yourself said that it made no sense, that P's death was bizarre as his life was bizarre. In other words, there's a lot we don't know. But to me, the situation taken as a whole seems to point to suicide.

The autopsy report is not misleading. It is an official document. The med examiner doesn't lie. There are several boxes to tick such as natural cause, accident, suicide, homicide, The accident box is ticked. The police commissioner also said suicide is ruled out, as is foul play. Yes it makes no sense, his life and death were bizarre but that doesn't mean suicide. Yes there is a lot we don't know but it doesn't matter. Prince died from accidental OD. Accident means he didn't know, which means he didn't suicide. Suicide means intent, there is no intent in an accident, that is why it is an accident.

I wanted to add to this... In order for the medical examiner to determine the OD was accidental and not suicide, they have to look at his medical history as well his frame of mind at the time. So, for example, if he had a terminal disease and couldn't take it anymore and decided to take himself out like it is being suggested, then by looking at his current health, they could determine if he had something going on that would give cause to believe he might have wanted to end it all. However, they determined his death was accidental.

To determine his mindset, they would have to interview those close to him to get an idea where Prince's head was at. For example, they could have asked those close to him if Prince was in such a bad state that he would take his own life. Or, they could have asked questions like if they thought he was depressed, or if they thought he would have any reason to take his own life, etc. However, after all of this, they determined his death was accidental.

The Carver County sheriff had said at the time that they would be interviewing people close to Prince. The medical examiner uses the police reports as well as a source of information. I would think they had to have asked those close to him what Prince's mindset was at the time to be sure.

Superconductor said:

+1