rogifan said:

sonshine said:

I agree. Give us at least a chance to buy the stuff then. I don't think anyone here would deny paying P for his work but that's not even an option mostly. Having the stuff on YT to watch helped me grieve. Don't take it all away

Yeah and how about getting all his music on iTunes? Right now all the non-WB years is not available. I'd love for all his music to be on all streaming platforms but I know how he felt about that so at least let us buy it on iTunes. Or Amazon or wherever else you can still buy stuff. Heck I'd even take album only purchases.

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I read here on the org a couple months back that you could purchase downloads of almost all of the post-WB releases legally from Tidal.

[Edited 9/19/16 9:12am]

EmmaMcG said:

Where is the line drawn with regards copyright infringement? All these performances being taken down off youtube and a lot of them were done in tribute to Prince, after he died. I can understand the estate not wanting video footage of full Prince concerts on YouTube if they're plan down the line is to sell them on DVD or whatever because if they're available for free online, nobody would pay for them. That's business and I understand that. But let's say, as an example, Bruce Springsteen's performance of Purple Rain. Why would they want that removed? Springsteen is an artist Prince respected a lot so him covering Prince is kind of like The Boss paying that respect back to Prince. Plus, the estate aren't going to monetize that particular performance so why would they want it removed? Same goes for all the other tributes. They're not costing the Prince estate a cent. If anything, leaving them up shows how well liked Prince was that all these guys are paying tribute to him, which could turn fans of these artists onto Prince's music.

Agreed. Aside from not being a smart move marketing wise it also seems they are overstepping their bounds morally, if not legally.

Dibblekins said:

I sincerely hope they are going to be releasing stuff from Prince themselves--- If not, with him gone, it really is going to be over as far as Prince music is concerned.

djThunderfunk said:

rogifan said:

sonshine said: Yeah and how about getting all his music on iTunes? Right now all the non-WB years is not available. I'd love for all his music to be on all streaming platforms but I know how he felt about that so at least let us buy it on iTunes. Or Amazon or wherever else you can still buy stuff. Heck I'd even take album only purchases.

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I read here on the org a couple months back that you could purchase downloads of almost all of the post-WB releases legally from Tidal.

[Edited 9/19/16 9:12am]

Yes, everything is avalible for purchase on Tidal. People just don't want to spend the money.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

Yes, everything is avalible for purchase on Tidal. People just don't want to spend the money.

Excuse me? That's BS. Maybe there are some people but not me nor anyone else in this thread.

Have you gone to The Tidal store to purchase anything?

I bought the new one-off singles that he sold through them. The last one was Black Sweat piano version, iirc.

I'm cool with the pay to download and keep model but not at all interested in the streaming model.
I don't "rent" media.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Dibblekins said:

Personally, I think it's bonkers.

At the end of the day, for the most part, the people buying any future Prince releases are going to be either die-hard fans (who are desperate for the stuff anyway) or those who have encountered his material since his death - on sites like YouTube.

When he was alive, NOT making stuff readily available affected sales and his public profile. OK - he maintained none of that was important to him, so fair enough. But now he is dead. His heirs (whoever they may be), his creditors (including the tax man) and his estate (Paisley Park needs as much dosh as possible to keep going) will be needing funds. Making Prince / his music less visible won't achieve that aim: it's proven.

It will initially annoy / perplex people - and then they'll forget and move on. And P's estate doesn't need people forgetting and moving on...

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

I have a Prince playlist on YouTube. I think I removed 30 videos tonight that had been deleted due to copyright infringement claim by NPG. One was a Beck tribute doing a cover of Raspberry Beret. Another was a tribute from Chris Martin singing the same song. My God how ridiculous. If they want to take down official Prince recordings or live shows fine but someone doing a cover of his song in tribute? Seriously? And if they are going to remove live concert footage then maybe they could start releasing this stuff to Tidal or iTunes for people to purchase.

-// Once the estate is settled they will get stuff out. In the meantime it is the adminstrator' skin to protect the copyrights. If people are downloading for free were is the incentive to purchase.

I'd buy what I've downloaded. A produced copy would be of better quality and would be complete, rather than snippets of concerts or whole concerts with sometimes poor lighting. Further, while I love watching the YT videos, I'd like just the audio sometimes (I find him impossible NOT to watch so it's distracting if I'm listening to a video).

It's a balance, but on the whole, these videos can actually increase exposure and increase sales of a produced album.

Just saying...it's short-sighted if they take it all down (and I actually think there's research to back that up but I can't be bothered to look it up in the middle of a work day).

[Edited 9/19/16 12:01pm]

djThunderfunk said:

Jessica55 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Yes I know my teenage daughter and her friends look for videos if they hear a song somewhere and that's how they get to know the artist and maybe see a concert. It's 2016 they need to realize that. She's gone to a concert of a Japanese singer who rarely comes to the US solely based on seeing her videos.

This is so true. And, further, I suspect it hurt P's sales that he was so adamant about Youtube. There is a balance to be struck here, which means that sales of future releases can be hurt if they take everything down. Yes, you don't want to give everything away for free but leaving Youtube videos up can actually increase the sale of songs, albums, and videos.

Iit's free and easy direct marketing. And it's a fact of life in the 21st century.

Sigh.

[Edited 9/19/16 12:30pm]

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said: Excuse me? That's BS. Maybe there are some people but not me nor anyone else in this thread.

Have you gone to The Tidal store to purchase anything?

I don't want 'downloads' - I want REAL music, in hard copy form, in my sticky paw!
.

Maybe I'm 'old school' but I see / hear stuff I like on YouTube - and then I track down the actual CD / DVD and buy it.
.

If I don't see / hear it on YouTube, I'm unlikely to purchase any physical music - because I won't have heard / seen it (or at least some goodly snippets of it, to tempt me)!

Bullshit. I can find any song I want.

rogifan said:

I have a Prince playlist on YouTube. I think I removed 30 videos tonight that had been deleted due to copyright infringement claim by NPG. One was a Beck tribute doing a cover of Raspberry Beret. Another was a tribute from Chris Martin singing the same song. My God how ridiculous. If they want to take down official Prince recordings or live shows fine but someone doing a cover of his song in tribute? Seriously? And if they are going to remove live concert footage then maybe they could start releasing this stuff to Tidal or iTunes for people to purchase.

BartVanHemelen said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said: -// Once the estate is settled they will get stuff out. In the meantime it is the adminstrator' skin to protect the copyrights. If people are downloading for free were is the incentive to purchase.

.

Oh please, NONE of that will ever be on sale.

If these acts get their business together after the trust busniess is set, a Prince tribute album can be recorded and sold. C'mon--this can eventually happen.

teach49 said:

Jessica55 said:

teach49 said:

This is so true. And, further, I suspect it hurt P's sales that he was so adamant about Youtube. There is a balance to be struck here, which means that sales of future releases can be hurt if they take everything down. Yes, you don't want to give everything away for free but leaving Youtube videos up can actually increase the sale of songs, albums, and videos.

Iit's free and easy direct marketing. And it's a fact of life in the 21st century.

Sigh.

[Edited 9/19/16 12:30pm]

They can monetize these videos in a number of ways: ads, buy now buttons,etc. There is a wealth of demographic data available from views. If they had a VEVO channel on YouTube, they could get subscribers and the more people subscribe, the more other people see a channel with a high number of subscribers and want to take a look. If they did it, they could get press: Prince videos finally on YouTube! Maybe get him off The Wall of Shame at the EFF. I think Springsteen would be insulted if they took it down. His rules are everything, even twist ties and cups, must be black and for one night he changed that longstanding rule.

teach49 said:

Jessica55 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said: Yes I know my teenage daughter and her friends look for videos if they hear a song somewhere and that's how they get to know the artist and maybe see a concert. It's 2016 they need to realize that. She's gone to a concert of a Japanese singer who rarely comes to the US solely based on seeing her videos.

This is so true. And, further, I suspect it hurt P's sales that he was so adamant about Youtube. There is a balance to be struck here, which means that sales of future releases can be hurt if they take everything down. Yes, you don't want to give everything away for free but leaving Youtube videos up can actually increase the sale of songs, albums, and videos.

Iit's free and easy direct marketing. And it's a fact of life in the 21st century.

Sigh.

[Edited 9/19/16 12:30pm]

.

No no no no ... ya'all have the check out the Anil Dash - unfortunately - YouTube video to understand WHY Prince had such a strong stance against YouTube. And the estate is respecting his wishes.

.

Prince was ahead of his time and dead right about YT.

.

EDIT : if you don't want to watch the whole video - just scroll to minute 45 - that's where he starts talking about YT.

[Edited 9/19/16 23:44pm]

The Youtube stance is not about money - it's about ownership!

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Oh please, NONE of that will ever be on sale.

--- In the United States we have estate taxes that must be paid. You can make out payment plan but federal and local govt want to see were the funds to pay are coming from. Breamer has a duty per the court to monetize the estate. We will see music from that vault and I would bet that Breamer, Kopplemam and McMillian will present a plan before the November deadline to renew their agreement with the court as admins.

.

Note what is being taken down, and then tell me how the fuck the estate has the rights to Bruce Springsteen performing a Prince cover.

I was listening to a Prince playlist on Youtube on my phone while taking a walk at the park and I could not believe how many were deleted. I know, I know, we are supposed to buy them if we want to listen but there were some on Youtube I didn't have in my phone and I liked. Like someone else said on here, I do not think they should remove the tributes other artists have done for Prince paying their respects after his death. And also I agree not having his music out there on Youtube etc I believe hurt him too. I think it gives the artist exposure. I really like to watch the music videos too. Love the live performances. Sometimes you just wanna see him perform the songs instead of just listening.

rogifan said:

I have a Prince playlist on YouTube. I think I removed 30 videos tonight that had been deleted due to copyright infringement claim by NPG. One was a Beck tribute doing a cover of Raspberry Beret. Another was a tribute from Chris Martin singing the same song. My God how ridiculous. If they want to take down official Prince recordings or live shows fine but someone doing a cover of his song in tribute? Seriously? And if they are going to remove live concert footage then maybe they could start releasing this stuff to Tidal or iTunes for people to purchase.

I do exactly the same thing. Or I'll pay to download it if I like it on youtube.

Dibblekins said:

laurarichardson said:

Have you gone to The Tidal store to purchase anything?

I don't want 'downloads' - I want REAL music, in hard copy form, in my sticky paw!
.

Maybe I'm 'old school' but I see / hear stuff I like on YouTube - and then I track down the actual CD / DVD and buy it.
.

If I don't see / hear it on YouTube, I'm unlikely to purchase any physical music - because I won't have heard / seen it (or at least some goodly snippets of it, to tempt me)!

BartVanHemelen said:

Heidi said:

EmmaMcG said:

BartVanHemelen said:

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Oh please, NONE of that will ever be on sale.

--- In the United States we have estate taxes that must be paid. You can make out payment plan but federal and local govt want to see were the funds to pay are coming from. Breamer has a duty per the court to monetize the estate. We will see music from that vault and I would bet that Breamer, Kopplemam and McMillian will present a plan before the November deadline to renew their agreement with the court as admins.

.

Note what is being taken down, and then tell me how the fuck the estate has the rights to Bruce Springsteen performing a Prince cover.

That's what I've been saying, though maybe a little nicer than how you've put it

And even IF they somehow did have a legal right to remove the tribute videos, why would they want to? I understand to a degree why they may want to remove entire Prince concerts. So they can sell them later if they choose to. But they can't sell Beck or Springsteen performances of Prince songs unless they get Beck and Springsteen's permission. And in removing these tributes they are kind of giving the middle finger to the artists who've taken the time to incorporate Prince songs into their set to pay the man some respect. So if the time comes when the estate want to release some form of tribute album, they've burned those bridges with the artists who would make such an album worthwhile. And if they have no plans for a tribute album, why remove the videos in the first place?

rogifan said:

EmmaMcG said:

That's what I've been saying, though maybe a little nicer than how you've put it

And even IF they somehow did have a legal right to remove the tribute videos, why would they want to? I understand to a degree why they may want to remove entire Prince concerts. So they can sell them later if they choose to. But they can't sell Beck or Springsteen performances of Prince songs unless they get Beck and Springsteen's permission. And in removing these tributes they are kind of giving the middle finger to the artists who've taken the time to incorporate Prince songs into their set to pay the man some respect. So if the time comes when the estate want to release some form of tribute album, they've burned those bridges with the artists who would make such an album worthwhile. And if they have no plans for a tribute album, why remove the videos in the first place?

To be fair these tribute videos aren't coming from those artists themselves; they're mostly uploaded from concert goers. The estate isn't asking Springsteen or Beck to remove anything.

PurpleMaze77 said:

Heidi said:

.

No no no no ... ya'all have the check out the Anil Dash - unfortunately - YouTube video to understand WHY Prince had such a strong stance against YouTube. And the estate is respecting his wishes.

.

Prince was ahead of his time and dead right about YT.

.

EDIT : if you don't want to watch the whole video - just scroll to minute 45 - that's where he starts talking about YT.

[Edited 9/19/16 23:44pm]

When "Little Red Corvette" was on MTV, nobody was calling Prince on the phone to ask if he was ok with the adverts they were selling.