Menes said:

phatphuk said:

I definitely recall listening to one of the tracks on Planet Earth, and being shocked when I heard Prince sing a very distinct flat note..

I wanna say the track was maybe Lion of Judah. But don't quote me on that specific track. I just know it was one of the ones on Planet Earth.

It was very, very subtle. And of very short duration. But definitely an unintentional off note. Having listened to so many flat notes of my own in many of my own recording session playbacks, I know 'em when I hear 'em.

I heard more off notes with the long guitar solos and riffs. But I must confess...I started paying attention to the scales he was playing and noticed that since my ears were tuned to "western music scales" I had convinced myself that there must've have been some dissonant interval that he would bring me back to. I needed that "western music" scale I was so used to hearing. I misinterpreted this as "wrong notes in the wrong key" and was laughing all by myself. The idiot that I was back then. This was in the late 80's-90's . A lot of kids back then who did not know about the theory of music would often say " what kind of song is this"? The song that sticks out a lot with this theory is "Around the world in a day". At minute 1:55 there is a serious change in the scale structure of the music and vocals. I had to cock my ears five ways from Sunday back then to try to figure out what he was doing musically.

The question of dissonance in music is not straightforward like some would make out. Both Bach in one of his fugues, and Mozart in Dov Giovanni used all 12 notes of the chromatic scale in a passage of music no longer than several bars. Beethoven in final movement of 9th symphony used 11 out of 12. All those sections sound atonal-ish to me. Unless someone's talking 12 note serialism- where each note of the 12 note scale has to be used once before any note can be used a second time- then Im not sure atonalism was a 20th century invention as such.

Notes played that are definitely out of tune- as in wrong pitch- are different than notes played out of key.

There are also bendy notes (which kids do on yamaha keyboards thinking they're really good) and eastern scales comprising many more notes.

phatphuk said:

Menes said:

'...A lot of kids back then who did not know about the theory of music would often say " what kind of song is this"? ...'

I know what you mean about unfamiliar, exotic-sounding scales. Your're talking to a guy who used to tune his guitars to his own, never-before-heard of, no-named tunings. Dissonant chord voicings was my claim to fame. HaHaHaHaHa!

My bandmates would be all, "Dude, why don't you just play the major third?". And I'd be like, "Because it doesn't evoke the same feeling and texture that the song is about!"

So yeah. You're dead right. Not everybody has "the ears" to appreciate some non-western scales.

I remember one poster in particular from an old thread I lurked in here in the org who didn't sound like she had "the ears" for musical dissonance — and the key word is "musical".

I can't remember the username. But there was a poster who was the music director for the ill-fated Robin Power project.

She posted a link to a video of Robin Power and her band, rehearsing to a track that his music director poster had composed. And the music director poster explained that her composition was inspired by some dissonant chord progression — or maybe it was some dissonant instrumentation — that she heard in some Prince song that also had some kind of dissonant musical elements in it.

No disrespect to that music director lady. But how should I put this? I guess one lady's dissonance is another guy's incorrectly formed chord. HaHaHaHaHa!

[Edited 9/18/16 20:05pm]

Was the musical director laura richardson by any chance?

fortuneandserendipity said:

"...Was the musical director laura richardson by any chance? :hmmm:..."

laurarichardson does hit a helluva lot of "wrong notes" in a lot of her posts. Don't she? ;¬)

But the music director's username {artpal} eventually resurfaced in my memory.

EDIT: I trawled my browser history and found the Uptown Dames video I was referring to.

Listen to the bell-like sound in the mix. It's meant to be atonal. But to me it just sounds like it's in the wrong key! HaHaHaHaHaHa!

[Edited 9/18/16 21:57pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

phatphuk said:

I know what you mean about unfamiliar, exotic-sounding scales. Your're talking to a guy who used to tune his guitars to his own, never-before-heard of, no-named tunings. Dissonant chord voicings was my claim to fame. HaHaHaHaHa!

My bandmates would be all, "Dude, why don't you just play the major third?". And I'd be like, "Because it doesn't evoke the same feeling and texture that the song is about!"

So yeah. You're dead right. Not everybody has "the ears" to appreciate some non-western scales.

I remember one poster in particular from an old thread I lurked in here in the org who didn't sound like she had "the ears" for musical dissonance — and the key word is "musical".

I can't remember the username. But there was a poster who was the music director for the ill-fated Robin Power project.

She posted a link to a video of Robin Power and her band, rehearsing to a track that his music director poster had composed. And the music director poster explained that her composition was inspired by some dissonant chord progression — or maybe it was some dissonant instrumentation — that she heard in some Prince song that also had some kind of dissonant musical elements in it.

No disrespect to that music director lady. But how should I put this? I guess one lady's dissonance is another guy's incorrectly formed chord. HaHaHaHaHa!

[Edited 9/18/16 20:05pm]

Was the musical director laura richardson by any chance?

Jesus. I was enjoying the thread and then........didn't we sink that ship ?

He actually did go off key in the letterman dolphin performance, and he knew it too, you could see it in his face, I chalk it up to nerves or just being pissed off that letterman introduced him in such a disrespectful way.