While it's odd, at this point, to hear the songs from Camille out of their natural order, it is rather interesting to compile those 8 songs in order, and listen to Prince's intent. For me, there's no real concept to the album, other than the voice alteration itself. The songs vary, they do have a sexual nature overall more than other records. There is no Sunday-song (like SOTT, God, etc). There's no sweeping 7-minute ballad.

Rebirth of the Flesh

Housequake

Strange Relationship

Feel U Up

Shockadelica

Good Love

If I Was Your Girlfriend

Rock Hard In A Funky Place

So how many of you have not only put these songs together as Camille, but also listen to it regularly? Do you use any other versions of the songs in your tracklist, like the earlier version of "Strange Relationship", the long stroke of "Feel U Up", or maybe really switching it up with "7 Minute Mo'Quake", and which version of "Good Love" do you use? There's one on 30 Years of Unreleased Funk (I think) that has some street sounds and ambient noise at the end of it, which would make it segue quite well into the sounds on "If I Was Your Girlfriend". Or do you just use what's out there, first official release?

Would you have rather seen a Camille and The Black Album release, and sacrificed SOTT & possibly Lovesexy in the process? There is a certain playfulness on Camille that isn't necessarily present on other albums from that period.

For me, I dig the Camille playlist, and I use the longer versions of "Feel U Up", "Shockadelica", and the first release of "Good Love". I'm still iffy on "Housequake", but using the album version does seem to segue better after "Rebirth of the Flesh".

I'm amazed this vinyl album suddenly has seen the light of day, and is genuine.. it seems..

And imo its strong songs all the way.


Still, I can't tell whether it is seagued the right way, the order of the songs..

But I no I love all these tracks deeply, everyone of them:

And in case - a BIG "if"..... this vinyl will be re-released here in 2016, 30 years later, then I will buy the LP right away...

[Edited 9/10/16 10:30am]

[Edited 9/10/16 10:31am]

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I presume WB were contractually beholden, but pursuaded P behind-the-scenes through his own management not to pursue the commercially unsound 'Camille' album release, in place of which the 'Dream Factory' material (*if* this is the name by which the prospective album was then known, and which had its own release cycle, and which most likely had already expanded into a double-LP release, and was continuing to expand with other mid-1986 material) was integrated with the 'Camille' material, for a three-LP 'Crystal Ball' release as a short-term solution to halt a 'Camille' release, and then in turn pared down into SOTT (for similar commercial considerations), with the option of releasing a second album during the same calendar year as [what became] SOTT replacing the plan for a singular 3-LP release, which became TBA, before being aborted as well.

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Camille and TBA are, in a sense, placeholders of the same unused or contractually-leveraged album slot, and both expose P at his most sinisterly weird and funky.

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I have a peach and black suspicion that the accommodations and sacrifices made on each side of the aisle throughout late 1986-early 1987 effectively made significant headway to permit funding and greenlighting an additional P feature-film by the various powerbrokers.

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[Edited 9/10/16 13:54pm]

imprimis said:

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I presume WB were contractually beholden, but pursuaded P behind-the-scenes through his own management not to pursue the commercially unsound 'Camille' album release,

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I have a peach and black suspicion that the accommodations and sacrifices made on each side of the aisle throughout late 1986-early 1987 effectively made significant headway to permit funding and greenlighting an additional P feature-film by the various powerbrokers.

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Lotta guess work there with no backing, per se. Prince, and the people at WB, have both stated, even in recent months, that Prince was never throttled on the material he put out, but rather the frequency of it. Prince was also doing pretty well with WB, despite UTCM being a flop, because he had another #1 under his belt, and Paisley Park was being completed. (Well, doing well until they said "no" to the 3-record set of course.) By the record, he was in uber-creativity mode at that point. I mean, he was a lot, but to have your own digs like that - The Black Album, Camille, Dream Factory, Crystal Ball, Lovesexy, SOTT...a lot of stuff in such a short period.

Back to Camille, it has a lot more commercial appeal than Around The World In A Day, and Parade ever had, IMO. That's not to say they weren't great records, but if you're talking about commercial sound, Camille trumps that with stuff like "Good Love", "Strange Relationship", "If I Was Your Girlfriend", and even "Shockadelica", all of which would have sounded just find on 1987 radio.

On an unrelated note: It's most interesting to consider that this peach and black era stuff was still being recorded & compiled while the Parade Tour was going on. The unconsidered overlaps of those types of things always amazes me. Think of him on the Purple Rain Tour, lace and silk up to his eyeballs, and he's recording some crazy shit like ""Condition of the Heart" or "ATWIAD" in his off time. Or while he's fussing w/ the Revolution in 1986 and doing his Revue, he's recording "Rebirth of the Flesh" or whatever.

It's true that my previous post can be characterized as my own mere speculation. I view it, at least, as being grounded in reasonable infererence.

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I adore the 'Camille' guise/material, and am one of its most fervent proponents, but, speaking realistically and sincerely, I believe that it would have been a broad commercial success only in Princeland.

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I would expect its possible singles ('Shockadelica', 'Strange Relationship', 'Good Love'?) to chart no higher than the bottom deciles (say, in the 60 - 110/'bubbling under' range) of the Billboard Hot 100, similar to chart showings for 'Screams of Passion' or ALHIYH.

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Perhaps better received in smaller Euro markets.

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And that emboldening a gender-indeterminate public image of Prince would have been unwise to his brand after UTCM/Parade (or for a mid-1980s Prince in general).

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It could have garnered P a 'Is This Guy Weird, or What?' type of major magazine headline as with MJ in the coming year. Imagine that with the oft-misattributed photo used on the SOTT single artwork.

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If this was conceived chiefly as a 'Paisley Park Records' release with limited promotion [buried more deeply behind the scenes in Camille's case] as with the 'Mazarati' / 'The Family' albums, perhaps this wouldn't be much of an issue for those with larger financial interests in Prince.

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1986 was a very odd year in popular music.

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My belief is that this project would be little remembered for some combination of the above, or, alternatively, if the marketing and linking to P's image were made more overt, risk (at least from the standpoint of paranoid fears by WB and music-industry people) placing P in the type of 'liquidity crisis' he faced post-Lovesexy that would necessitate something similar to his involvement in the Batman multimedia project/making GB more like PR/making a partial self-parody in D&P, several years earlier.

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Unrelated Note: 'Bob George' is something of an anti-Camille to me, something of a Mario-Wario relationship.

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TrivialPursuit said:

imprimis said:

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I presume WB were contractually beholden, but pursuaded P behind-the-scenes through his own management not to pursue the commercially unsound 'Camille' album release,

.

I have a peach and black suspicion that the accommodations and sacrifices made on each side of the aisle throughout late 1986-early 1987 effectively made significant headway to permit funding and greenlighting an additional P feature-film by the various powerbrokers.

.

Lotta guess work there with no backing, per se. Prince, and the people at WB, have both stated, even in recent months, that Prince was never throttled on the material he put out, but rather the frequency of it. Prince was also doing pretty well with WB, despite UTCM being a flop, because he had another #1 under his belt, and Paisley Park was being completed. (Well, doing well until they said "no" to the 3-record set of course.) By the record, he was in uber-creativity mode at that point. I mean, he was a lot, but to have your own digs like that - The Black Album, Camille, Dream Factory, Crystal Ball, Lovesexy, SOTT...a lot of stuff in such a short period.

Back to Camille, it has a lot more commercial appeal than Around The World In A Day, and Parade ever had, IMO. That's not to say they weren't great records, but if you're talking about commercial sound, Camille trumps that with stuff like "Good Love", "Strange Relationship", "If I Was Your Girlfriend", and even "Shockadelica", all of which would have sounded just find on 1987 radio.

On an unrelated note: It's most interesting to consider that this peach and black era stuff was still being recorded & compiled while the Parade Tour was going on. The unconsidered overlaps of those types of things always amazes me. Think of him on the Purple Rain Tour, lace and silk up to his eyeballs, and he's recording some crazy shit like ""Condition of the Heart" or "ATWIAD" in his off time. Or while he's fussing w/ the Revolution in 1986 and doing his Revue, he's recording "Rebirth of the Flesh" or whatever.

[Edited 9/10/16 17:44pm]

imprimis said:

mikeyaddict said:

I'd just like to know / hear which versions of the tracks are on it - and listen to as intended. Are they versions we have so like u have done we could put a playlist together of them. The one I have uses long stroke / extended of shockadelica. But kinda know that's wrong as the extendeds were for the maxis at that point.

Agreed.

Sometimes though I wonder if the extended versions were the original versions, and they were cut down for the singles, etc. There is an earlier version of "Strange Relationship", but I don't know if that was intended for Camille or Dream Factory. For now, I'm using the best version I could find of Rebirth, album of everything else, the 30 Years Of Unreleased Funk version of "Good Love", and the extended of "Shock" and "Feel U Up". There's some ambient noise at the end of "Good Love" that I mentioned. I've considered going in and mixing in more with the opening sounds of "IIWYG" so it flows better.

I'd be interested in knowing whether 'Strange Relationship' takes longer to fade out, or has any Eric Leeds horns session usage in the mix; the mix/edit used for 'Good Love'; the way RBOTF segues into HQ; whether there is any difference to the beginning of IIWYG, aside from the claim that it lacks the opening Fairlight/sound library samples.

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Despite the excitement, I believe that the LP little differs from what we have, beyond maybe EQ/mixing, perhaps a very minor surprise (ala~ how the JIR on the GB cassette fade out is a bit longer than on the CD) for some of the tracks, and perhaps minor alternate edits that are different from, but reveal nothing we don't already have.

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The true Camille holy-grail, beyond the material pleasures of direct ownership of an acetate or test pressing the of the actual LP itself, would be full-length/higher-quality/or uncirculating outtakes recorded in the pseudo-Camille/Camille persona (or related in Princelore in some way to it):

.

-The rumored alternate Housequake, with different production to that Camille album/CB/SOTT version

-'Strange Relationship', as it appears on Camille/CB/SOTT, with its unused Eric Leeds horns overdub session

-'One Day (I'm Gonna Make U Mine)' with P/Camille lead vocals

-Full-length 'Cosmic Day'

-'Rockhard in a Funky Place' without the gag ending

-Extended or alternate mixes of 'Dream Factory' (track) (not really 'Camille' as such, but close enough)

-'Lust U Always' (Camille version) (I doubt Camille or a effects-voice P sings this; it's probably just the 1983/84 outtake to which we have a demo instrumental that circulates as 'Divinity', credited to 'Camille' as this was the nom de plume of the hour when he cleaned it up and sent it to Robert Palmer in 1987, and as a back-reference to UGTL's appropriation of some the musical ideas in 'Addicted to Love')

-Demo to 'U Got the Look' (before the accelerated/effects vocals)

-Extended/Alternate Mixes of 'U Got the Look' (the 'Long Look' edit suggests a lot more to the multitracks)

-Camille (1987, a proto-Grafitti Bridge outtake).

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Am I alone in my thinking that 'Eternity' and 'Witness for the Prosecution' (Fall 1986 re-recording) sound great when sped-up Camille-rate, and uneventful at their proper playback speed?

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(a serendipity from all the generations of tape copying, our idea of the song having been formed from the early b-legs which drew from some very poor high-generation sources, and that remained the case on these two for many years afterwards).

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[Edited 9/10/16 17:42pm]

it's interesting that "Rebirth Of The Flesh" is the only track that was never released.I guess Prince could never find a proper place for it.I suppose it could have been a B-side for one of the SOTT singles

The '1999'-cover-esque hand-written title/lyrics/scribbles printed on the labels are very neat.

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It is worth noting that this exact label (paisley swirl) background design was used on a number of Paisley Park Records vinyl promo and single releases between 1987 and 1990; for instance, the ones drawn from Mavis Staples' 'Time Waits For No One'.

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SoulAlive said:

(Camille LP Side A/Side B Photos)

[Edited 9/10/16 17:29pm]

SoulAlive said:

it's interesting that "Rebirth Of The Flesh" is the only track that was never released.I guess Prince could never find a proper place for it.I suppose it could have been a B-side for one of the SOTT singles

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It's a bit grating in tone and darkly themed. It would be most at home with TBA material. It of course matches 'Rockhard. . .' very well, given that it was recorded on the same day with the same personnel (and together the two tracks serve as the opening and ending, respectively, to 'Camille').

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[Edited 9/10/16 17:33pm]

I'm certain I'm reading signficiance into the inconsequential here, but the 'P-1' in handwritten script above the 'Side A' / 'Side B' is curious. Was this meant to suggest 'Camille - Part 1', as in, 'only the beginning' of a developing narrative.

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[Edited 9/10/16 17:38pm]

SoulAlive said:

it's interesting that "Rebirth Of The Flesh" is the only track that was never released.I guess Prince could never find a proper place for it.I suppose it could have been a B-side for one of the SOTT singles

Well, all of the songs have been officially released in some fashion, at this point.. But yes, the studio version was never released. I agree that it's curious as to why. I could have easily been a b-side to ICNTTPOYM instead of the "Hot Thing" remixes (although the one mix is pretty great).

imprimis said:

I'm certain I'm reading signficiance into the inconsequential here, but the 'P-1' in handwritten script above the 'Side A' / 'Side B' is curious. Was this meant to suggest 'Camille - Part 1', as in, 'only the beginning' of a developing narrative.

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[Edited 9/10/16 17:38pm]

Or, it could be Pressing 1, since it was probably a test pressing in general that we see in those photos. Just a thought. I don't think it was "part 1", though.

I've always considered this one of my favorite Prince albums.

TrivialPursuit said:

imprimis said:

I'm certain I'm reading signficiance into the inconsequential here, but the 'P-1' in handwritten script above the 'Side A' / 'Side B' is curious. Was this meant to suggest 'Camille - Part 1', as in, 'only the beginning' of a developing narrative.

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[Edited 9/10/16 17:38pm]

Or, it could be Pressing 1, since it was probably a test pressing in general that we see in those photos. Just a thought. I don't think it was "part 1", though.

I believe at least a low-hundreds number were pressed. The album was assigned a WB catalogue number, and made it late into pre-production, at a minimum. I can't imagine they would have a uniquely typeset numbering system (serial #), based upon a handwritten "font", for the labels, nor that Karen Krattinger would be the very person to have literally *the* first pressing?

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Maybe, though, it is just a dummy "stand-in" # to be replaced with by an actual manufacturing run number, had it made it into actual production. That is, every test pressing from this batch has the same label with 'P-1'.

[Edited 9/10/16 19:35pm]

SoulAlive said:

it's interesting that "Rebirth Of The Flesh" is the only track that was never released.I guess Prince could never find a proper place for it.I suppose it could have been a B-side for one of the SOTT singles

Technically he did release the song itself, but only in that rehearsal version recorded in 1989 on a NPG Music Club edition.

mushmackalenta said:

I would have thought Rebirth would omit the welcome 2 the Crystal Ball ending on the Camille version.

References to the Crystal Ball hung around for a few tracks on Sign o the Times so unless he just hadn't added that line yet I wouldn't count it out. Also it may have been a more metaphorical idea before it became a project name as well, hard to tell with him.

I use the same line up as Trivial Pursuit, who I think pretty much nailed it. Particularly Feel U Up's Long Stroke (its funkier) and the SOTT version of Strange Relationship (which i think is as crucial to the concept of the album as IIWYG). Essentially its a funk-break up album. But in this case Prince isnt lamenting his relationship with Susannah but rather he's addressing the break up with Wendy & Lisa, his closest companions - fantasizing about being a third lesbian lover, whilst also trying to take back Blackamerica and impress Nelson George. Thats my two cents. What i thinks really going on.

www.souljones.com

http://souljones.com/excl...ille-album

Just been listening to this now for the first time in a while(playlisting what I have obviously, not the acetate) and the one thing i'll say is the linn drum snare beats start to become a bit fatiguing and repetitive by the end. It's an incredible collection of songs but my considered opinion is that he made the right decision not to release them all together.

I'd still buy an official release of it in half a second though.

SoulJones said:

mikeyaddict said:

I'd just like to know / hear which versions of the tracks are on it - and listen to as intended. Are they versions we have so like u have done we could put a playlist together of them. The one I have uses long stroke / extended of shockadelica. But kinda know that's wrong as the extendeds were for the maxis at that point.

AFAIK.

I think instead that on the Camille album there are effectively the "Long Stroke"s of "Feel U Up" and "Shockadelica".

If you check the total timing for the album you'll see we're around the 41 minutes, that was near the regular timing of an LP at the time.

Probably the 7" Edit were made lately to became B-Sides.

"Good Love" is the "Bright Lights, Big City" version (the original) and RIAFP is the same "Black Album" version. "Rebirth Of The Flesh" is the version we already well know, segued with the noise from the beginning of "Housequake".

The other tracks are exactly the same as on SOTT.

The only thing I have doubt of is if "If I Was Your Girlfriend" includes the SOTT intro or is like the "Crystal Ball" version. But that's all.

That said, I would be really pleased to discover alternate takes/versions on the acetate.
But I don't have many hopes for it.

jaawwnn said:

Just been listening to this now for the first time in a while(playlisting what I have obviously, not the acetate) and the one thing i'll say is the linn drum snare beats start to become a bit fatiguing and repetitive by the end. It's an incredible collection of songs but my considered opinion is that he made the right decision not to release them all together.

I'd still buy an official release of it in half a second though.

To be honest, I listened many times to the "Camille" album tracked as I described on my post over this one and I never encountered any problem with the LINN's repetitive, but I can understand it would be for others.

To my taste, the "Camille" album is a jewel, I can't think of the impact if it was released at the time as projected by P.

On the "I'd still buy and official release of it in half a second though" I can't agree more that I do.

The Camille Album is way funkier than The Black Album hands down. I believe Camille could have done very well commercially, especially with Prince in some disguise for the videos of what every songs were released as singles.

Camille is a strong album from beginning to end with absolutely no filler. It would have been quite interesting to actually see how this album would haved faired back in the day. It's definitely a classic no matter what and it's legend will live on like it's creator.

dodger said:

SoulJones said:

I use the same line up as Trivial Pursuit, who I think pretty much nailed it. Particularly Feel U Up's Long Stroke (its funkier) and the SOTT version of Strange Relationship (which i think is as crucial to the concept of the album as IIWYG). Essentially its a funk-break up album. But in this case Prince isnt lamenting his relationship with Susannah but rather he's addressing the break up with Wendy & Lisa, his closest companions - fantasizing about being a third lesbian lover, whilst also trying to take back Blackamerica and impress Nelson George. Thats my two cents. What i thinks really going on.

www.souljones.com

http://souljones.com/excl...ille-album

I read your Camille article last night after coming across it on Twitter. Great piece, enjoyed it

Thanks Dodger, appreciate the kind words.

This may seem like a silly question, but has anyone played the Camille record to make sure it is playable?