So recently we had a thread talking about the rumored "Old Dogs, New Tricks" album that Prince was supposed to have been working on with Morris, Tori Ruffin, Ricky Smith and others. PrinceVault has no information on this.

I spoke to Tori recently and he confirmed that he, Morris, and Ricky did indeed work on a set of songs with Prince in 1997, and he confirmed that "Cowgirl" - which was one of the song titles on the leaked tracklist we have, is one of those songs, and contains guitar parts from Ronnie Baker Brooks.

He also confirmed that Terry Lewis worked on the album too, and that Tori himself had written songs with Prince and Morris.

He didn't know anything about the rumored Funkadelic cover of "Who Says A Funk Band Can't Play Rock?" - so either this never happened and is false information, or it comes from different sessions that Tori wasn't involved in.

Anyway - just thought I'd bring that information to the table. Nice to know that somewhere in Paisley's vault, is this unreleased Time album. Perhaps one day it'lll see the light of day.

Interesting info. I´m surprised that Morris never really talks about this project or that other unreleased project ( Corporate World).

Or maybe it´s because journalists don´t really know about those projects and never ask him.

It seems like Prince was being a bit nostalgic in 1997/98, reaching out to Wendy and Lisa for the Roadhouse Garden album, working with Morris Day for a new The Time album.

Nice to have some clarification. Thanks.

Thanks

Militant said:

So recently we had a thread talking about the rumored "Old Dogs, New Tricks" album that Prince was supposed to have been working on with Morris, Tori Ruffin, Ricky Smith and others. PrinceVault has no information on this.

I spoke to Tori recently and he confirmed that he, Morris, and Ricky did indeed work on a set of songs with Prince in 1997, and he confirmed that "Cowgirl" - which was one of the song titles on the leaked tracklist we have, is one of those songs, and contains guitar parts from Ronnie Baker Brooks.

He also confirmed that Terry Lewis worked on the album too, and that Tori himself had written songs with Prince and Morris.

He didn't know anything about the rumored Funkadelic cover of "Who Says A Funk Band Can't Play Rock?" - so either this never happened and is false information, or it comes from different sessions that Tori wasn't involved in.

Anyway - just thought I'd bring that information to the table. Nice to know that somewhere in Paisley's vault, is this unreleased Time album. Perhaps one day it'lll see the light of day.

.

There was a Time fan on amp called Rhastus, and IIRC he claimed to have heard the album. He wasn't the type to make up stuff, so...

.

Related threads: http://prince.org/msg/5/342743 , http://prince.org/msg/7/430174 , http://prince.org/msg/5/362004 , http://prince.org/msg/5/182404 , http://prince.org/msg/5/371443 , ... each containing snippets of information that might or might not be true. (Plenty more if you search for "old dogs new tricks") They also refer to Prince working with Morris in 2001.

.

See also: https://groups.google.com...xkO48WPYAJ , https://groups.google.com...A8wDEFnLgJ , https://groups.google.com...xnOWkkO2EJ , https://groups.google.com...WvYM7ayqkJ (which talks about a possible live album!), https://groups.google.com...3GSG3c4aUJ (which mentions the three people who were blocking the release of ODNT), etc. Again: plenty more to be found but you need to sift through much noise. I'd forgotten about the guy who wanted to release a compilation of "the best of The Time" and just ran into a brick wall when it came to Paisley Park.

[Edited 8/15/16 0:41am]

there's quite a few things Prince worked on intending it for the Time, and Prince worked with Morris more then you might think, i know in 2008 a few things were knocked around between the two of them

im more concerned with the completed with artwork 34 + studio almbums collecting dust

Thx Militant, cool info! I hope Morris tells the whole story one day!

Cool thread!

Remember, "Prettyman" from the Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic (1999) album was originally intended for The Time and Prince ended up keeping it. Check out that appearance Prince made at MTV's TRL, when he was promoting that album and premiering The Greatest Romance music video.

sms130 said:

Remember, "Prettyman" from the Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic (1999) album was originally intended for The Time and Prince ended up keeping it. Check out that appearance Prince made at MTV's TRL, when he was promoting that album and premiering The Greatest Romance music video.

.

Prince was obviously bullshitting, as part of the "retro" promo of Rave, e.g. that "Prince" was the producer of that album. There is zero evidence "Prettyman" was ever intended for The Time and the recording of the song was firmly part of the sessions for the album.

.

Fans often point to certain songs and claim that they're "Time songs", despite there being zero evidence for that. Same with "Camille songs".

BartVanHemelen said:

Militant said:

So recently we had a thread talking about the rumored "Old Dogs, New Tricks" album that Prince was supposed to have been working on with Morris, Tori Ruffin, Ricky Smith and others. PrinceVault has no information on this.

I spoke to Tori recently and he confirmed that he, Morris, and Ricky did indeed work on a set of songs with Prince in 1997, and he confirmed that "Cowgirl" - which was one of the song titles on the leaked tracklist we have, is one of those songs, and contains guitar parts from Ronnie Baker Brooks.

He also confirmed that Terry Lewis worked on the album too, and that Tori himself had written songs with Prince and Morris.

He didn't know anything about the rumored Funkadelic cover of "Who Says A Funk Band Can't Play Rock?" - so either this never happened and is false information, or it comes from different sessions that Tori wasn't involved in.

Anyway - just thought I'd bring that information to the table. Nice to know that somewhere in Paisley's vault, is this unreleased Time album. Perhaps one day it'lll see the light of day.

.

There was a Time fan on amp called Rhastus, and IIRC he claimed to have heard the album. He wasn't the type to make up stuff, so...

.

Related threads: http://prince.org/msg/5/342743 , http://prince.org/msg/7/430174 , http://prince.org/msg/5/362004 , http://prince.org/msg/5/182404 , http://prince.org/msg/5/371443 , ... each containing snippets of information that might or might not be true. (Plenty more if you search for "old dogs new tricks") They also refer to Prince working with Morris in 2001.

.

See also: https://groups.google.com...xkO48WPYAJ , https://groups.google.com...A8wDEFnLgJ , https://groups.google.com...xnOWkkO2EJ , https://groups.google.com...WvYM7ayqkJ (which talks about a possible live album!), https://groups.google.com...3GSG3c4aUJ (which mentions the three people who were blocking the release of ODNT), etc. Again: plenty more to be found but you need to sift through much noise. I'd forgotten about the guy who wanted to release a compilation of "the best of The Time" and just ran into a brick wall when it came to Paisley Park.

[Edited 8/15/16 0:41am]

Yep I know Rhastus, he posts here still every now and then. Thanks for the links!

Edit - Ah, I see Rhastus confirmed that "Style" is indeed a cover of the Prince song of the same name. Probably safe to assume it doesn't still have the "Mayte in the shower" line though

BartVanHemelen said:

sms130 said:

Remember, "Prettyman" from the Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic (1999) album was originally intended for The Time and Prince ended up keeping it. Check out that appearance Prince made at MTV's TRL, when he was promoting that album and premiering The Greatest Romance music video.

.

Prince was obviously bullshitting, as part of the "retro" promo of Rave, e.g. that "Prince" was the producer of that album. There is zero evidence "Prettyman" was ever intended for The Time and the recording of the song was firmly part of the sessions for the album.

.

Fans often point to certain songs and claim that they're "Time songs", despite there being zero evidence for that. Same with "Camille songs".

It was intended for The Time, it was recorded in early 99, not long after he guested with The Time in Vegas and threw around the idea of making a new Time album with Morris. He of course ended up keeping it for himself. Its one of my favorite tracks, always loved the bass from Larry on this one and Kirk's ultra tight drum track.

KoolEaze said:

Interesting info. I´m surprised that Morris never really talks about this project or that other unreleased project ( Corporate World).

Or maybe it´s because journalists don´t really know about those projects and never ask him.

It seems like Prince was being a bit nostalgic in 1997/98, reaching out to Wendy and Lisa for the Roadhouse Garden album, working with Morris Day for a new The Time album.

Morris mentioned "Corporate World" on Twitter after Prince passed away as something in the vault he'd like to see come out. No mention of "Old Dogs, New Tricks" in recent years, but I hope they get Jam, Lewis and Jesse to sort that album out, if it's not hot already, and any other Prince/Morris tracks we haven't heard at some point release it.

All the info in this thread we've known since before "Condensate".

funksterr said:

KoolEaze said:

Interesting info. I´m surprised that Morris never really talks about this project or that other unreleased project ( Corporate World).

Or maybe it´s because journalists don´t really know about those projects and never ask him.

It seems like Prince was being a bit nostalgic in 1997/98, reaching out to Wendy and Lisa for the Roadhouse Garden album, working with Morris Day for a new The Time album.

Morris mentioned "Corporate World" on Twitter after Prince passed away as something in the vault he'd like to see come out. No mention of "Old Dogs, New Tricks" in recent years, but I hope they get Jam, Lewis and Jesse to sort that album out, if it's not hot already, and any other Prince/Morris tracks we haven't heard at some point release it.

All the info in this thread we've known since before "Condensate".

Corporate World (the entire album as such) would be a nice addition to a Pandemonium reissue, but maybe only in digital form. I'd love to see reissues of all albums featuring all early configurations as such, kind of showing the road to the final product, but so many songs would be redundant if done on CD that it'd only work on digital (like u purchase a package with all configs regardless of duplicates).

databank said:

funksterr said:

Morris mentioned "Corporate World" on Twitter after Prince passed away as something in the vault he'd like to see come out. No mention of "Old Dogs, New Tricks" in recent years, but I hope they get Jam, Lewis and Jesse to sort that album out, if it's not hot already, and any other Prince/Morris tracks we haven't heard at some point release it.

All the info in this thread we've known since before "Condensate".

Corporate World (the entire album as such) would be a nice addition to a Pandemonium reissue, but maybe only in digital form. I'd love to see reissues of all albums featuring all early configurations as such, kind of showing the road to the final product, but so many songs would be redundant if done on CD that it'd only work on digital (like u purchase a package with all configs regardless of duplicates).

Hush databank, I want physical copies!!!

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

Corporate World (the entire album as such) would be a nice addition to a Pandemonium reissue, but maybe only in digital form. I'd love to see reissues of all albums featuring all early configurations as such, kind of showing the road to the final product, but so many songs would be redundant if done on CD that it'd only work on digital (like u purchase a package with all configs regardless of duplicates).

Hush databank, I want physical copies!!!

Realistically what I propose here is not doeable physically: imagine a boxset with 5 different versions of an album, containing some tracks over and again: even among the hardcore I've read people spitting on the notion, saying they won't pay for a SOTT reissue featuring CB as a bonus because they already have most of the tracks on SOTT. Would you pay for a boxset featuring 5 configurations of D&P, the fourth being different from the 5th ONLY because Horny Poy is there instead of Gett Off? I bet not, but you would probably pay for a digital package featuring all 5 CD's for the price of one (or as a free digital bonus to purchasing a boxset with b-sides and bonus material).

If, and I say IF whomever handles the Prince archives takes the archivist approach and tries to emphasize documenting vs. making quick cash, what I propose would be an amazing way of documenting the evolution of each record, but this couldn't possibly justify a physical boxset. Physical boxsets shouldn't contain too many duplicates of same songs if they are 2 sell IMHO.

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

Hush databank, I want physical copies!!!

Realistically what I propose here is not doeable physically: imagine a boxset with 5 different versions of an album, containing some tracks over and again: even among the hardcore I've read people spitting on the notion, saying they won't pay for a SOTT reissue featuring CB as a bonus because they already have most of the tracks on SOTT. Would you pay for a boxset featuring 5 configurations of D&P, the fourth being different from the 5th ONLY because Horny Poy is there instead of Gett Off? I bet not, but you would probably pay for a digital package featuring all 5 CD's for the price of one (or as a free digital bonus to purchasing a boxset with b-sides and bonus material).

If, and I say IF whomever handles the Prince archives takes the archivist approach and tries to emphasize documenting vs. making quick cash, what I propose would be an amazing way of documenting the evolution of each record, but this couldn't possibly justify a physical boxset. Physical boxsets shouldn't contain too many duplicates of same songs if they are 2 sell IMHO.

First of all, the odds of such comprehensive box sets being released in any format is slim to none for most. Maybe a few key albums like Purple Rain could get that treatment but certainly nothing like a Time album. It's a great idea, it would be cool and I would love it, but it won't happen.

Second, if I had the option to buy the set you propose as a physical copy or a digital copy, yes, I would buy the physical copy. If I had no choice except digital, I don't know that I would buy it at all. Certainly not at the high price such a set would cost. I HATE spending $ on digital only. I bought singles from Prince because that was the only way and to support him. But the $ a giant digital box set would cost? Probably not.

I'll support the estate and purchase releases that offer something new in a physical format. I will have reservations about digital only releases and/or releases that are remastered but with no bonus material. I want deluxe editions on CD, DVD/BD and I want vinyl releases of the albums that haven't had one so far. I don't want digital and I don't want remasters without bonus.

I'm sure you remember we've squabbled about this before, db, and usually we agree to disagree because neither of us is an ass about insisting the other is wrong. I wish more people on the org were able to disagree as strongly as you & I do on this topic and still get along.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

Realistically what I propose here is not doeable physically: imagine a boxset with 5 different versions of an album, containing some tracks over and again: even among the hardcore I've read people spitting on the notion, saying they won't pay for a SOTT reissue featuring CB as a bonus because they already have most of the tracks on SOTT. Would you pay for a boxset featuring 5 configurations of D&P, the fourth being different from the 5th ONLY because Horny Poy is there instead of Gett Off? I bet not, but you would probably pay for a digital package featuring all 5 CD's for the price of one (or as a free digital bonus to purchasing a boxset with b-sides and bonus material).

If, and I say IF whomever handles the Prince archives takes the archivist approach and tries to emphasize documenting vs. making quick cash, what I propose would be an amazing way of documenting the evolution of each record, but this couldn't possibly justify a physical boxset. Physical boxsets shouldn't contain too many duplicates of same songs if they are 2 sell IMHO.

First of all, the odds of such comprehensive box sets being released in any format is slim to none for most. Maybe a few key albums like Purple Rain could get that treatment but certainly nothing like a Time album. It's a great idea, it would be cool and I would love it, but it won't happen.

Second, if I had the option to buy the set you propose as a physical copy or a digital copy, yes, I would buy the physical copy. If I had no choice except digital, I don't know that I would buy it at all. Certainly not at the high price such a set would cost. I HATE spending $ on digital only. I bought singles from Prince because that was the only way and to support him. But the $ a giant digital box set would cost? Probably not.

I'll support the estate and purchase releases that offer something new in a physical format. I will have reservations about digital only releases and/or releases that are remastered but with no bonus material. I want deluxe editions on CD, DVD/BD and I want vinyl releases of the albums that haven't had one so far. I don't want digital and I don't want remasters without bonus.

I'm sure you remember we've squabbled about this before, db, and usually we agree to disagree because neither of us is an ass about insisting the other is wrong. I wish more people on the org were able to disagree as strongly as you & I do on this topic and still get along.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

It seems everybody is releasing Super/(Deluxe) remastered edtions of there albums be it there classic albums or newer ones. Some are doing Vinyl and CD/DVD versions too. From the little known musicians to the more famous musicians. How come when it comes to Prince who stands as one of the legends, why can't he/his estate do the same why would it have to be digital only? I have seen albums by artists i have never heard of on amazon and ebay with deluxe and even super deluxe editions of there albums . If they can do it , surely Prince is a big enough name to have it done.

1997

T R A C K L I S T I N G

I'd really like to hear this album someday

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

Realistically what I propose here is not doeable physically: imagine a boxset with 5 different versions of an album, containing some tracks over and again: even among the hardcore I've read people spitting on the notion, saying they won't pay for a SOTT reissue featuring CB as a bonus because they already have most of the tracks on SOTT. Would you pay for a boxset featuring 5 configurations of D&P, the fourth being different from the 5th ONLY because Horny Poy is there instead of Gett Off? I bet not, but you would probably pay for a digital package featuring all 5 CD's for the price of one (or as a free digital bonus to purchasing a boxset with b-sides and bonus material).

If, and I say IF whomever handles the Prince archives takes the archivist approach and tries to emphasize documenting vs. making quick cash, what I propose would be an amazing way of documenting the evolution of each record, but this couldn't possibly justify a physical boxset. Physical boxsets shouldn't contain too many duplicates of same songs if they are 2 sell IMHO.

First of all, the odds of such comprehensive box sets being released in any format is slim to none for most. Maybe a few key albums like Purple Rain could get that treatment but certainly nothing like a Time album. It's a great idea, it would be cool and I would love it, but it won't happen.

Second, if I had the option to buy the set you propose as a physical copy or a digital copy, yes, I would buy the physical copy. If I had no choice except digital, I don't know that I would buy it at all. Certainly not at the high price such a set would cost. I HATE spending $ on digital only. I bought singles from Prince because that was the only way and to support him. But the $ a giant digital box set would cost? Probably not.

I'll support the estate and purchase releases that offer something new in a physical format. I will have reservations about digital only releases and/or releases that are remastered but with no bonus material. I want deluxe editions on CD, DVD/BD and I want vinyl releases of the albums that haven't had one so far. I don't want digital and I don't want remasters without bonus.

I'm sure you remember we've squabbled about this before, db, and usually we agree to disagree because neither of us is an ass about insisting the other is wrong. I wish more people on the org were able to disagree as strongly as you & I do on this topic and still get along.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

I agree that what I suggest is very unlikely to happen but one can always dream. I certainly hope u get ur physical releases -in whatever form- if u enjoy them, since it wouldn't prevent me from having my digital ones, particularly if - as Guitahero says- deluxe boxsets r still common (I have to admit I wasn't aware of this). I was basing my judgment on previous threads where I suggested a SOTT boxset featuring the 3 configs of DF, Camille, CB and SOTT in their entirety (+ b-sides, remixes and bonus material), where some orgers said they do not wish to purchase such a thing cuz they won't pay for duplicates. In my idea such a release could be possible digitally for, say, the price of the amount of original songs at 1 buck a piece, not counting duplicates, which would make it quite a bargain as opposed to a 10 CD-set where one would have to pay for the value of each CD. + as u said it's unlikely to have a deluxe boxset for "secondary" albums and side projects anytime soon, but nothing prevents the estate from releasing that stuff digitally: it's better than not at all.

The thing is I hope things r being done quite intensively on the long run, given the incredible amount of live and studio material in the vault: releasing 10 albums a year (including live shows in audio and/or video) is technically possible but the physical market could probably not sustain such a pace. I'd rather have one or 2 physical boxsets a year + another 8 digital releases than only 2 physical ones. Fact is we all r going to die before everything in the vault is unearthed, but the more we live to enjoy in our lifetimes the better

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

First of all, the odds of such comprehensive box sets being released in any format is slim to none for most. Maybe a few key albums like Purple Rain could get that treatment but certainly nothing like a Time album. It's a great idea, it would be cool and I would love it, but it won't happen.

Second, if I had the option to buy the set you propose as a physical copy or a digital copy, yes, I would buy the physical copy. If I had no choice except digital, I don't know that I would buy it at all. Certainly not at the high price such a set would cost. I HATE spending $ on digital only. I bought singles from Prince because that was the only way and to support him. But the $ a giant digital box set would cost? Probably not.

I'll support the estate and purchase releases that offer something new in a physical format. I will have reservations about digital only releases and/or releases that are remastered but with no bonus material. I want deluxe editions on CD, DVD/BD and I want vinyl releases of the albums that haven't had one so far. I don't want digital and I don't want remasters without bonus.

I'm sure you remember we've squabbled about this before, db, and usually we agree to disagree because neither of us is an ass about insisting the other is wrong. I wish more people on the org were able to disagree as strongly as you & I do on this topic and still get along.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

I agree that what I suggest is very unlikely to happen but one can always dream. I certainly hope u get ur physical releases -in whatever form- if u enjoy them, since it wouldn't prevent me from having my digital ones, particularly if - as Guitahero says- deluxe boxsets r still common (I have to admit I wasn't aware of this). I was basing my judgment on previous threads where I suggested a SOTT boxset featuring the 3 configs of DF, Camille, CB and SOTT in their entirety (+ b-sides, remixes and bonus material), where some orgers said they do not wish to purchase such a thing cuz they won't pay for duplicates. In my idea such a release could be possible digitally for, say, the price of the amount of original songs at 1 buck a piece, not counting duplicates, which would make it quite a bargain as opposed to a 10 CD-set where one would have to pay for the value of each CD. + as u said it's unlikely to have a deluxe boxset for "secondary" albums and side projects anytime soon, but nothing prevents the estate from releasing that stuff digitally: it's better than not at all.

The thing is I hope things r being done quite intensively on the long run, given the incredible amount of live and studio material in the vault: releasing 10 albums a year (including live shows in audio and/or video) is technically possible but the physical market could probably not sustain such a pace. I'd rather have one or 2 physical boxsets a year + another 8 digital releases than only 2 physical ones. Fact is we all r going to die before everything in the vault is unearthed, but the more we live to enjoy in our lifetimes the better

SoulAlive said:

1997

T R A C K L I S T I N G

1.	Cowgirl	(n/a)
2.	Style	(n/a)
3.	Who says a funk band can't play rock?	(n/a)
4.	Shake it baby	(n/a)
5.	Old dogs, new tricks	(n/a)
6.	Players Quiz	(n/a)
7.	North side, South side, Suburbs	(n/a)
8.	And thats what time it is	(n/a)

is this with Jesse?

luvsexy4all said:

SoulAlive said:

1997

T R A C K L I S T I N G

1.	Cowgirl	(n/a)
2.	Style	(n/a)
3.	Who says a funk band can't play rock?	(n/a)
4.	Shake it baby	(n/a)
5.	Old dogs, new tricks	(n/a)
6.	Players Quiz	(n/a)
7.	North side, South side, Suburbs	(n/a)
8.	And thats what time it is	(n/a)

is this with Jesse?

Nope. Prince, Morris, Terry, Tori Ruffin, Ricki Smith, Ronnie Baker Brooks and possibly Larry Graham. No info or evidence to suggest Jesse was involved at all.

disc box set,

databank said:

I agree that what I suggest is very unlikely to happen but one can always dream. I certainly hope u get ur physical releases -in whatever form- if u enjoy them, since it wouldn't prevent me from having my digital ones, particularly if - as Guitahero says- deluxe boxsets r still common (I have to admit I wasn't aware of this).

.

Just browse five minutes on http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/ and be amazed at the kind of box sets still being released these days. I mean, a NINETEEN DISC box set of Dead Or Alive album! Or go look up a King Crimson discography: 19 disc box set, 27 disc box set,...

.

Which is why Prince's sabotage of such releases has been such a criminal act. I don't care one iota that his post-1995 output often went out of print in months, but it's a goddamn shame that it's 2016 and we still only have at best mediocre sounding CDs of his 1980s heyday and that bootleggers have been responsible for releasing magnificent concert recordings and outtake sets.

BartVanHemelen said:

disc box set,

databank said:

I agree that what I suggest is very unlikely to happen but one can always dream. I certainly hope u get ur physical releases -in whatever form- if u enjoy them, since it wouldn't prevent me from having my digital ones, particularly if - as Guitahero says- deluxe boxsets r still common (I have to admit I wasn't aware of this).

.

Just browse five minutes on http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/ and be amazed at the kind of box sets still being released these days. I mean, a NINETEEN DISC box set of Dead Or Alive album! Or go look up a King Crimson discography: 19 disc box set, 27 disc box set,...

.

Which is why Prince's sabotage of such releases has been such a criminal act. I don't care one iota that his post-1995 output often went out of print in months, but it's a goddamn shame that it's 2016 and we still only have at best mediocre sounding CDs of his 1980s heyday and that bootleggers have been responsible for releasing magnificent concert recordings and outtake sets.

careful ,bart, people may say youre right for a change...

BartVanHemelen said:

luvsexy4all said:

BartVanHemelen said:

disc box set,

.

Just browse five minutes on http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/ and be amazed at the kind of box sets still being released these days. I mean, a NINETEEN DISC box set of Dead Or Alive album! Or go look up a King Crimson discography: 19 disc box set, 27 disc box set,...

.

Which is why Prince's sabotage of such releases has been such a criminal act. I don't care one iota that his post-1995 output often went out of print in months, but it's a goddamn shame that it's 2016 and we still only have at best mediocre sounding CDs of his 1980s heyday and that bootleggers have been responsible for releasing magnificent concert recordings and outtake sets.

careful ,bart, people may say youre right for a change...

Bart's been right on this subject for years.