BartVanHemelen said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

There's nothing crappy about standard quality MP3s. I really hope you don't believe all the MP3 formats and bitrates are inferior in quality. Because then you'll just get schooled.

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If you think 128k MP3s are not inferior quality...

ill take those new tracks in that format if they r exc quality

fortuneandserendipity said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

He still had to fulfil the WB contract with one more release, hence Old Friends for Sale in '99. Warners were apparently pissed at Prince in '96 for releasing Emancipation through EMI.

Nonsense and nonsense.

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The circumstances WRT C&D and TV:OF4S are well-documented.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.

Nothing I said here is nonsense. It's your brain that's nonsense. You can't even discern the information from your own source reference. He had to fulfil a contractual obligation. Old Friends For Sale was vault material, not intended for original release.

[Edited 9/12/16 6:44am]

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EVERYTHING YOU SAID was nonsense.

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He still had to fulfil the WB contract with one more release

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Nonsense.

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Warners were apparently pissed at Prince in '96 for releasing Emancipation through EMI.

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Nonsense.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Dunno where you got this "7CD box set" nonsense, unless you're referring to the sampler set.

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Fact is that NPGMC v2 or whatever was supposed to give us exclusive CDs, instead we got ONA and then later on the live album/box set which was available in stores.

Bart what r u talking about? U r perfectly aware of THIS:

https://www.princevault.com/index.php?title=Album:_The_Chocolate_Invasion-2003

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Wow, completely forgot about that one. Then again, there are sooo many "promised" releases from that era that never were much more than Prince brainfarts.

databank said:

The rest is more of a subjective matter, but as far as I'm concerned Prince could also have released GN and Exodus as "Prince" or :

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Well, no, since that was prohibited by his WBR contract. Warners not doing much to stop those releases shows how lenient they were towards him.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

The rest is more of a subjective matter, but as far as I'm concerned Prince could also have released GN and Exodus as "Prince" or :

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Well, no, since that was prohibited by his WBR contract. Warners not doing much to stop those releases shows how lenient they were towards him.

I meant in terms of artistic legitimacy in the credits, regardless of the contextual/legal situation.

Oh man - you guys are right. I'm assuming the samples are flac as that would make sense from a business standpoint and when I compare it to the MP3 I got on one of the tracks there was a big difference to my ears. I listened to "Underneath the Cream" and even the drum sounds are different - tiny and little bass on the MP3. The flac file though sounds like there is a lot more density and mood.

Wrote to tidal and proposed that I buy the flac version and they refund my initial purchase. They told me they forwarded my email to a supervisor and she wrote back to me saying it was cool. Excited to do so right after work - haven't listened to the albums yet since I was my 1st time listen to be optimal.

Also, I don't think format matters - it's an album release. I understand what the tradition is, but format doesn't matter in terms of what does or does not constitute an album. That'd be like saying someone who reads their Kindle doesn't read a story - since it's not technically a book. I'd think that would be crazy.

With that said, I prefer CDs myself - I'm 26 but some of my fondest memories are of my local record store. It's gonna be hard to let those feelings go for the future.

With that said though - digital only such as this has a huge amount of advantages and I'm starting to warm to the idea of digital only releases. I listen to a LOT of smaller bands and a lot of them don't have the ability to make CDs, etc. Take Omar Rodriguez Lopez - he is releasing 12 albums between August 2016 and December 2016 and I think all are digital only. It wouldn't make sense to say those aren't albums based on the format.

[Edited 9/13/16 6:48am]

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fortuneandserendipity said:

He still had to fulfil the WB contract with one more release, hence Old Friends for Sale in '99. Warners were apparently pissed at Prince in '96 for releasing Emancipation through EMI.

Nonsense and nonsense.

.

The circumstances WRT C&D and TV:OF4S are well-documented.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.

Nothing I said here is nonsense. It's your brain that's nonsense. You can't even discern the information from your own source reference. He had to fulfil a contractual obligation. Old Friends For Sale was vault material, not intended for original release.

[Edited 9/12/16 6:44am]

EVERYTHING YOU SAID was nonsense.

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He still had to fulfil the WB contract with one more release

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Nonsense.

.So you're saying he didn't have to release Old Friends for Sale to fulfil the contract?!! Wikipedia says, "The album was recorded from 1985 through 1994. It was the last album to be released by Warner Bros. to fulfill his 1992 contract obligations". Also https://princevault.com/i...nds_4_Sale

Warners were apparently pissed at Prince in '96 for releasing Emancipation through EMI.

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Nonsense.

I remember reading this at the time and I'm sure about it. They thought it arrogant of prince to release new music through another deal at the time and not promote Chaos and Disorder. It was in either Nme or liz jones' biography. So who are you now, the official disabuser of hearsay? No sense in that. Put another way, nonsense.

26ten said:

Oh man - you guys are right. I'm assuming the samples are flac as that would make sense from a business standpoint and when I compare it to the MP3 I got on one of the tracks there was a big difference to my ears. I listened to "Underneath the Cream" and even the drum sounds are different - tiny and little bass on the MP3. The flac file though sounds like there is a lot more density and mood.

Wrote to tidal and proposed that I buy the flac version and they refund my initial purchase. They told me they forwarded my email to a supervisor and she wrote back to me saying it was cool. Excited to do so right after work - haven't listened to the albums yet since I was my 1st time listen to be optimal.

Also, I don't think format matters - it's an album release. I understand what the tradition is, but format doesn't matter in terms of what does or does not constitute an album. That'd be like saying someone who reads their Kindle doesn't read a story - since it's not technically a book. I'd think that would be crazy.

With that said, I prefer CDs myself - I'm 26 but some of my fondest memories are of my local record store. It's gonna be hard to let those feelings go for the future.

With that said though - digital only such as this has a huge amount of advantages and I'm starting to warm to the idea of digital only releases. I listen to a LOT of smaller bands and a lot of them don't have the ability to make CDs, etc. Take Omar Rodriguez Lopez - he is releasing 12 albums between August 2016 and December 2016 and I think all are digital only. It wouldn't make sense to say those aren't albums based on the format.

[Edited 9/13/16 6:48am]

Of course they said it was 'cool' to charge extra for the flac version. They wanna make a buck, plus Jay-Z always wants new bling. Yeah you might've been listening to it on mobile only but there's no audible difference between 320 and flac so really you should save yourself the money.

[Edited 9/13/16 10:22am]

Right? I was confused about them having to move it up to a supervisor since it was an obvious good business move to say yes to my proposition.

Also - was not using mobile only - and I didn't expect to hear any difference and was surprised that I did. My speakers are quite good and the difference was apparent to my ears. With that said, I didn't get to do a blind test, so who is to say I wasn't imagining a difference. I guess I'm trusting my ears on this because my initial perception was that I would not hear any difference but feel that I did. Either way, meh - I got the songs for a whole hell of a lot less than I thought I would have to had I gone to eBay or something.

I win, Jay-Z wins, the estate of Prince wins (god I wish I could have just written Prince wins still), and now the world is a better place haha

Gonna listen to them when the moment is right and will post my opinions once I have.

Always do a blind test. Confirmation bias is like placebo, it's underestimated.

Well, no your reply is nonsense. I'm quite sure he could have opted to release New Power Soul as his final WB album- as new material, IF he really wanted to but he opted instead for Old Friends For Sale one year further on. I don't know if you're getting pedantic over semantics, or if you have some issue with that work being the last WB album of the contract. If you're pointing to 'termination of contract' in 96 as the issue, that doesn't preclude - as part of the terms of any settlement reached - any future remaining album releases. Clearly here, it didn't nullify the rest of the contract. Old Friends For Sale was released in '99 as part of the final deal. End of story.

[Edited 9/13/16 11:24am]

fortuneandserendipity said:

Always do a blind test. Confirmation bias is like placebo, it's underestimated.

I will be listening to the whole album twice with my GF and will have her select the format both times. I'll let you guys know how I feel about it as a blind test.

Also - you all are so great - answered my question and the discussion is solid - I'm glad I created a thread that has had such interesting responses!

This is probably the best fan site I've ever been to - no joke.

fortuneandserendipity said:

I remember reading this at the time and I'm sure about it. They thought it arrogant of prince to release new music through another deal at the time and not promote Chaos and Disorder. It was in either Nme or liz jones' biography. So who are you now, the official disabuser of hearsay? No sense in that. Put another way, nonsense.

WB may well have been pissed, but there was nothing they could do about it. He delivered The Vault at the same time as Chaos & Disorder and they released him from his contract, so he was free to do whatever he pleased from that point on - including releasing Emancipation on EMI 5 months later.

And he actually did promote C&D with a handful of appearances in July 96.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Well, no your reply is nonsense. I'm quite sure he could have opted to release New Power Soul as his final WB album- as new material, IF he really wanted to but he opted instead for Old Friends For Sale one year further on. I don't know if you're getting pedantic over semantics, or if you have some issue with that work being the last WB album of the contract. If you're pointing to 'termination of contract' in 96 as the issue, that doesn't preclude - as part of the terms of any settlement reached - any future remaining album releases. Clearly here, it didn't nullify the rest of the contract. Old Friends For Sale was released in '99 as part of the final deal. End of story.

Again - The Vault was delivered at the same time as C&D - WB chose to release it in 99, but by the time New Power Soul was recorded he was free and clear.

[Edited 9/13/16 12:51pm]

[Edited 9/13/16 12:52pm]

The way I always understood it was WB was given C&D & TV:OFFS at the same time to release on their schedule which along with 2 more compilations (TVBOP & Ultimate) would be the last WB releases (from the original contracts). If this is correct NPS, would never have been considered as a WB release. No?

djThunderfunk said:

The way I always understood it was WB was given C&D & TV:OFFS at the same time to release on their schedule which along with 2 more compilations (TVBOP & Ultimate) would be the last WB releases (from the original contracts). If this is correct NPS, would never have been considered as a WB release. No?

The key point is, Prince was pulling the strings regarding selection of material for WB. It does however seem to fit, that the decision to release TV:OFFS in '99 was Warners', since coming after emancipation, crystal ball/the truth, NPS when it did- unlike them- it got zero promotion. Somewhere in trying to explain the reason behind an album like NPS, I got pulled up on the word 'circumventing'. I was trying to say, if he had so wished Prince could have given WB his best material in 1 or 2 cds to fulfil the contract. I would also make the point, Prince didn't care for TV:OFFS at all preferring to focus on other deals, notably NPS which got a lot of publicity considering it was an independent release- a real shame bc overall I think it's better than Rave (99), NPS (98) and the truth (97) albums. Also, Prince was smart with distribution deals in the late 90s and got to release a ton of stuff before last WB album was released, but I think all the independent stuff might be out of print now.

fortuneandserendipity said:

djThunderfunk said:

The way I always understood it was WB was given C&D & TV:OFFS at the same time to release on their schedule which along with 2 more compilations (TVBOP & Ultimate) would be the last WB releases (from the original contracts). If this is correct NPS, would never have been considered as a WB release. No?

The key point is, Prince was pulling the strings regarding selection of material for WB. It does however seem to fit, that the decision to release TV:OFFS in '99 was Warners', since coming after emancipation, crystal ball/the truth, NPS when it did- unlike them- it got zero promotion. Somewhere in trying to explain the reason behind an album like NPS, I got pulled up on the word 'circumventing'. I was trying to say, if he had so wished Prince could have given WB his best material in 1 or 2 cds to fulfil the contract. I would also make the point, Prince didn't care for TV:OFFS at all preferring to focus on other deals, notably NPS which got a lot of publicity considering it was an independent release- a real shame bc overall I think it's better than Rave (99), NPS (98) and the truth (97) albums. Also, Prince was smart with distribution deals in the late 90s and got to release a ton of stuff before last WB album was released, but I think all the independent stuff might be out of print now.

Damn man u r stubborn. TVOF4S was delivered and completed in 1996, how does it have anything to do with a 1998 project? Just listen to what people tell u and quit being so stubborn

fortuneandserendipity said:

.

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Nonsense.

I remember reading this at the time and I'm sure about it. They thought it arrogant of prince to release new music through another deal at the time and not promote Chaos and Disorder. It was in either Nme or liz jones' biography. So who are you now, the official disabuser of hearsay? No sense in that. Put another way, nonsense.

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The history WRT C&D and TV:OF4S is detailed in the link I provided earlier.

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Also, you're now basing your argument on something you might have read somewhere sometime? Why the fuck would WBR give a fuck about Prince "not promoting" C&D, when it is crystal clear the company had given up on him by accepting two substandard albums instead of demanding the three "proper" ones they were supposed to get?

djThunderfunk said:

The way I always understood it was WB was given C&D & TV:OFFS at the same time to release on their schedule which along with 2 more compilations (TVBOP & Ultimate) would be the last WB releases (from the original contracts). If this is correct NPS, would never have been considered as a WB release. No?

.

http://musicfans.stackexc...a/2171/129

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fortuneandserendipity said:

djThunderfunk said:

The way I always understood it was WB was given C&D & TV:OFFS at the same time to release on their schedule which along with 2 more compilations (TVBOP & Ultimate) would be the last WB releases (from the original contracts). If this is correct NPS, would never have been considered as a WB release. No?

The key point is, Prince was pulling the strings regarding selection of material for WB. It does however seem to fit, that the decision to release TV:OFFS in '99 was Warners', since coming after emancipation, crystal ball/the truth, NPS when it did- unlike them- it got zero promotion. Somewhere in trying to explain the reason behind an album like NPS, I got pulled up on the word 'circumventing'. I was trying to say, if he had so wished Prince could have given WB his best material in 1 or 2 cds to fulfil the contract. I would also make the point, Prince didn't care for TV:OFFS at all preferring to focus on other deals, notably NPS which got a lot of publicity considering it was an independent release- a real shame bc overall I think it's better than Rave (99), NPS (98) and the truth (97) albums. Also, Prince was smart with distribution deals in the late 90s and got to release a ton of stuff before last WB album was released, but I think all the independent stuff might be out of print now.

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STOP MAKING UP SHIT.

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Goddammit read http://musicfans.stackexc...a/2171/129 and STOP MAKING UP SHIT.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Except Prince & WB were done in 1996. OF4S was released in 1999, but Prince gave it to WB in 1996, thus fulfilling his contract. Why argue so forcefully with theories that are disproven by known facts?

[Edited 9/14/16 4:00am]

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

The way I always understood it was WB was given C&D & TV:OFFS at the same time to release on their schedule which along with 2 more compilations (TVBOP & Ultimate) would be the last WB releases (from the original contracts). If this is correct NPS, would never have been considered as a WB release. No?

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http://musicfans.stackexc...a/2171/129

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Thanks Bart.

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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http://musicfans.stackexc...a/2171/129

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Thanks Bart.

but wasnt the Black album part of the deal????

luvsexy4all said:

djThunderfunk said:

Thanks Bart.

but wasnt the Black album part of the deal????

Guess you didn't go to that link Bart shared several times? Here's an excerpt:

Which albums did count towards the deal?

• 
• Come
• The Gold Experience
• Chaos And Disorder
• The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale

Which albums, released within that period (and afterwards), did not count towards the deal?

• The Hits/The B-Sides (a separate deal; Warners paid Prince $3 million to not be involved because he had held up its release several times)
• The Black Album (part of a separate deal)
• Girl 6 (a soundtrack, and mostly a compilation of older material)
• The Very Best of Prince (part of the deal, but compilations are not counted towards the albums owed)
• Ultimate Prince (part of the deal, but compilations are not counted towards the albums owed)

Rioub said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Except Prince & WB were done in 1996. OF4S was released in 1999, but Prince gave it to WB in 1996, thus fulfilling his contract. Why argue so forcefully with theories that are disproven by known facts?

[Edited 9/14/16 4:00am]

I recognise that. What you seem to don't recognise in what I said is that Prince was able to release tons of new stuff before OF4S got released. So what if the contract was effectively terminated in 96?The final term of the deal took place in 99. Get a clue.

BartVanHemelen said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

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The history WRT C&D and TV:OF4S is detailed in the link I provided earlier.

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Also, you're now basing your argument on something you might have read somewhere sometime? Why the fuck would WBR give a fuck about Prince "not promoting" C&D, when it is crystal clear the company had given up on him by accepting two substandard albums instead of demanding the three "proper" ones they were supposed to get?

Well, record companies are a fickle lot. But I'm not saying I believe the source, as I said 'apparently' going off what I read. There's a certain irony to Prince giving them the two substandard albums, because imo they're better albums than his remaining stuff late 90s. BBC site gave OF4S back in the day 4/5 and they never rated a Prince album higher, even PR/SOTT.

fortuneandserendipity said:

TwiliteKid said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I recognise that. What you seem to don't recognise in what I said is that Prince was able to release tons of new stuff before OF4S got released. So what if the contract was effectively terminated in 96?The final term of the deal took place in 99. Get a clue.

I don't think even you know what you're trying to make at this point. [Edited 9/15/16 17:38pm]

TV:OF4S release in 99 didn't stop him from releasing 3 CD Emancipation, 5 CD Crystal Ball, NPS, in the meantime. Clearer now? Merely making a point about his ability to get so much music out.

I know my last reponse is likely going to be misconstrued. So I'll simply say this, Prince knew in late 96 he could do pretty much anything he wanted to do and then he went ahead and did just that.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Rioub said:

Except Prince & WB were done in 1996. OF4S was released in 1999, but Prince gave it to WB in 1996, thus fulfilling his contract. Why argue so forcefully with theories that are disproven by known facts?

[Edited 9/14/16 4:00am]

I recognise that. What you seem to don't recognise in what I said is that Prince was able to release tons of new stuff before OF4S got released. So what if the contract was effectively terminated in 96?The final term of the deal took place in 99. Get a clue.

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Ah for fuck's sake, you can't even follow your own logic. Guess what year Ultimate Prince was released?