I believe Michael Bland said on this site a few years ago that he had perfect pitch but Prince did not quite.

jazzvirtuoso said:

PERFECT PITCH http://www.rollingstone.c...e-20160422 Very difficult for me to believe this. Not that it diminishes his talent one bit. But these words came from his own mouth. So I guess all the comparisons to Mozart were strictly regarding his creative powers and not the extent of his abilty to actually hear notes without any refernce and know their names. Or he had it and lied and said that he didn't? I mean I wouldn't put it past him because he liked throwing people off.. Prince in my opinion will go down in history as music's greatest mystery ever! [Edited 9/5/16 22:11pm]

I don't find this particularly surprising, perfect/absolute pitch is exceedingly rare (as little as 1 in 10,000 according to the article below). As such, the vast majority of great musicians and composers will not have had it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...lute_pitch

I came to music relatively late in life but I seem to have fairly good innate relative pitch. From the outset, I could usually find the correct key of a piece after playing a few reference notes, and it doesn't take me long to work out a piece of music by ear (playing well is another thing entirely). Conversely, someone with perfect pitch and sufficient training might be able to hear a piece once and play it back virtually perfectly (including complex chord progressions etc), without recourse to the exploratory, referential methods that most people would need to employ when playing by ear.

I imagine that Prince could find the correct key very quickly, but learning scales and establishing the key beforehand just makes life easier for musicians (as in jjam's comment). Of course, perfect pitch and musical ability often go together, but I don't think that it necessarily implies great creativity. From what I've read, it can also be a somewhat intrusive and even distressing gift to have. People with absolute pitch are constantly interpreting their auditory surroundings musically, and perceived “dissonance” can be experienced as quite painful. It's an interesting subject though. I find Jamie Bullock's question in the blog below really interesting. People with perfect pitch often describe their experience of the world in terms of the western diatonic scale, but I would have thought that the vast majority of natural sounds are microtonal. Also, notions of “being in tune” and dissonance are probably relative and culturally acquired (since non-western music uses entirely different tonal intervals). I'd be interested to hear more about your experience of it jazzvirtuoso.

https://ljrich.wordpress....ally-like/

[Edited 9/6/16 13:11pm]

leecaldon said:

fen said:

jazzvirtuoso said:

fen said:

I don't find this particularly surprising, perfect/absolute pitch is exceedingly rare (as little as 1 in 10,000 according to the article below). As such, the vast majority of great musicians and composers will not have had it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...lute_pitch

I came to music relatively late in life but I seem to have fairly good innate relative pitch. From the outset, I could usually find the correct key of a piece after playing a few reference notes, and it doesn't take me long to work out a piece of music by ear (playing well is another thing entirely). Conversely, someone with perfect pitch and sufficient training might be able to hear a piece once and play it back virtually perfectly (including complex chord progressions etc), without recourse to the exploratory, referential methods that most people would need to employ when playing by ear.

I imagine that Prince could find the correct key very quickly, but learning scales and establishing the key beforehand just makes life easier for musicians (as in jjam's comment). Of course, perfect pitch and musical ability often go together, but I don't think that it necessarily implies great creativity. From what I've read, it can also be a somewhat intrusive and even distressing gift to have. People with absolute pitch are constantly interpreting their auditory surroundings musically, and perceived “dissonance” can be experienced as quite painful. It's an interesting subject though. I find Jamie Bullock's question in the blog below really interesting. People with perfect pitch often describe their experience of the world in terms of the western diatonic scale, but I would have thought that the vast majority of natural sounds are microtonal. Also, notions of “being in tune” and dissonance are probably relative and culturally acquired (since non-western music uses entirely different tonal intervals). I'd be interested to hear more about your experience of it jazzvirtuoso.

https://ljrich.wordpress....ally-like/

[Edited 9/6/16 13:11pm]

Well, as I mentioned, when I hear car horns, bells, whistles I know what notes I'm hearing. I don't have to hear a reference note to determine the key of a song. If it's a tune I've never heard before and I hear someone sing it, I know what key it's in. Yes, there are variations and microtonal grey areas too. One keyboard that I play on is flat by about 10 cents, so when I play an "A" it's an "A" around 430 not 440 which is customary. When I first started to play on this keyboard it drove me nuts. Then one day, I had a gig and one of the singers, decided to TEST me and asked me to play some of the songs in different keys and I instantly transposed them on the spot but for some reason it really hurt my ears to hear it transposed some tunes in my estimation don't sit very well in other keys. The smokey robinson song "Ooh baby baby" is similar to "why you wanna treat me so bad" when transposed a half step down. Btw Prince was the absolute master at picking the right keys for his songs normally and except here: https://m.youtube.com/wat...dx2DK0uNwU Where the guitar tech DID NOT do his job right and should have been fired. Princes guitar was out of tune with Dez Dickersons for most of the concert, sounds dreadful. Prince heard it, but kept on playing anyway later he re-tuned between songs. And yes I realize that this is a analog to digital conversion issue too along with BAD tuning and subpar intonation. I must say that the improvement in musicianship/singing between dirty mind (above) and controversy:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T46pLPoGUJs is very noticeable. And the improvement between dirty mind and purple rain is leaps and bounds beyond incredible, it's almost like listening to A whole new musician. He completely transformed himself. [Edited 9/6/16 15:47pm] [Edited 9/6/16 17:10pm]

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Whoah that video hurts my ears, even the singing is off key. Or is that video distorted?

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And what do you reckon did he do to improve?

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Btw, I posted the link about relative and perfect pitch not because of the course but because it explains the concepts clearly.

jazzvirtuoso said:

leecaldon said:

I believe Michael Bland said on this site a few years ago that he had perfect pitch but Prince did not quite.

To me Michael Bland is a good drummer but to me he's kind of got some peculiarities about him that I find strange. He did a interview and he talks a little about his time with Prince here: http://www.iplaythedrums....lbland.htm

What kind of peculiarities?

nursev said:

Outrageous guitarist, multiple instrumentalist, beautiful, sexy, good heart, funny - he had to have a flaw & now we know

Superconductor said:

jazzvirtuoso said:

Superconductor said:

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Whoah that video hurts my ears, even the singing is off key. Or is that video distorted?

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And what do you reckon did he do to improve?

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Btw, I posted the link about relative and perfect pitch not because of the course but because it explains the concepts clearly.

I know why you posted it, lol. Prince said that the way he improved was to go back and review all his concerts and he often had the whole band view them as well and he would point out the mistakes and flaws. Btw, there are plenty of videos on youtube where either the sound engineer, guitar tech, stage prop manager etc, completly droped the ball. His normal reaction was to fire them. That video had many issues going on at the same time (and I have already pointed some ofthem out) and it will come off as basing if I point them all out. But by your own admission you heard them too, trust your ears. But it is what it is, if you listen closely, when they dim the lights he played some licks on the guitar, but what he really was doing was retuning his guitar. Again the guitar tech didn't do his job right, this WAS NOT Princes fault! Are you a musician too? [Edited 9/7/16 14:48pm]

Yeah I heard about P listening and watching his concerts.

My musical skills and knowledge are evolving, I have been learning to play drums as an adult (taught myself guitar when I was a kid). Is there a rhythm equivalent to perfect pitch? When I listen to live performances from 3EG the drummer drives me crazy. And her singing on White Caps, too

Superconductor said:

Superconductor said:

jazzvirtuoso said:

Superconductor said:

In a bad way and I feel bad about it because who am I...She's gone to music school and all and Prince hired her and didn't mind or likely wanted it to sound like that.

Hmm, yea well, like you said Prince seemed to like it. But, you don't have to feel bad for not liking her singing or playing. I actually enjoyed her playing on "she's always in my hair" on Arsenio Hall. Also keep in mind that shes a woman. Most don't hit sticks like men do, there are exceptions of course most notably Sheila E.

Ooooh careful there!!! No idea what that is even supposed to mean!!!

Hanna Ford on "She's always in my hair" is exactly the sort of song where she sucks imho.

Her gender is not why I don't like her playing. Technically she is very good but I feel she lacks dynamics. There are plenty of male drummers out there who are technically excellent but their sound sounds flat and almost dead to me and their technicality ruins the sound imho, e.g. Virgil Donati. Metaphorically speaking I just want to kick him in the head when I hear him play.

There are some fantastic female drummers out there. Sheila E always gets a mention but she plays the drums like a percussionist imho. Go listen to Cindy Blackman or Terri Lyne Carrington just to name a couple of well known ones. Emmanuelle Caplette is a great up and coming drummer.

Jazzvirtuoso - I'll play devils advocate here. Not to argue, but to give non-musicians the other side of the coin.

First, was he at a point in his career in the video that he could afford a tech or was he still changing his own strings? I don't know.

Second, even adequately stretched, new strings put on before a gig will still go out of tune, especially when going hard to the hole with his bends. With new strings, a whole step or whole/half bend will easilly knock the G-B-E strings flat. And, if he was out of tune, he would have to bend more to be on pitch.

Third - and I love Prince and his playing - he hit some clams in that solo. You can't blame it all on the tuning. But amazingly, I've only seen two live videos where I really noticed him missing notes, or maybe the rhythm was off a bit. The other was on America during one of the Parade shows. Every other video, flawless. Or at least, when the solos weren't note for note, he played the other notes with authority. It sounded like he was playing what he meant to play.

Finally - you're spot on about the improvement in the live performances from the first tours through the day he passed. My thoughts are mix a little Prince and his drive to be the best, with more years of rehearsals and with better musicians as the years progressed, plus better technology (amps and effects), you have the musician (or guitarist in this case) that we all admire.

jazzvirtuoso said:

Where the guitar tech DID NOT do his job right and should have been fired. Princes guitar was out of tune with Dez Dickersons for most of the concert, sounds dreadful. Prince heard it, but kept on playing anyway later he re-tuned between songs.

littlerockjams said:

I'm always happy. I play guitar all day

CAN WE NOT HAVE SENSATIONALIST HEADLINES.

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THIS IS NOT YAHOO NEWS!

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darkroman said: