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Can We Finally Discuss Prince's Usage of Sexuality I mean from his first appearance on the scene he played upon his sexuality in his clothing choices, his appearance and he played upon people's needs and fears of sexuality U gotta give it to him...he was the best at doing that I mean for years he had people actually questioning his sexuality The man loved too much so I knew better than that But why would a person use those aspects to further their career then tell people not to do the things he did? Let's Discuss without getting this thread locked
[img:$uid]http://i497.pho.../img:$uid] [Edited 7/15/16 20:14pm] | |
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Hi Nurse!
You have to remember the historical context Prince started his career in...sex is so in your face now, is oversaturated and the cultural atmospehere back then was generally more conservative. So Prince really did get so much attention for his outragous antics and his sexual persona. I think he was very smart and knew how much attention this would garner. In additon though, I think he was just someone with a naturally high sex drive, was romantic, and loved women/femninity so he drew on a natural part of himself and that was why it came across as so authentic and not contrived, to the fans because it was all a part of him.
However, too much of a good thing and any kind of excess can be soul depleating and among other life trageties he endured and his friendship with Larry Graham really came at a time when he needed more balance to maybe to come back to a simpiler, more wholesome lifestyle....you can only party so much, have so many women, stuff like that...maybe as he grew older and matured that stuff just didn't nourish his soul so he was looking for something else and I believe became very much commited to his Bible Studies becasue he felt like he was going down the wrong path in life and felt his religion was a way to reign himself in. Possibly he gave him the structure he needed at the time.
In his last Rolling Stone interview he said he had been celibate for a while after his second marriage. Years ago I would have rolled my eyes at that just based on what I remember of our man Prince, but he has seemed different the last few years and I don't think it was an impossibility that he really was celebate. Maybe his idea of celebacy was not having actual sex but maybe included "sex play" with women but just no actual penetration. I don't know. But I DID get the feeling that he was saving himself for some kind of special woman, a soulmate that he was looking for....someone who he had not met yet but in his gut he KNEW was out there just based on some of his songs like "Somewhere here on earth". [Edited 7/15/16 20:39pm] | |
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I think thats why so many people were drawn towards him because the sexuality did seem like a natural part of him,but I believe he knew people loved that and sometimes played off of it I know that as one gets older things change, perspectives change about sex and other things, but it was still there he just hid it and wrote his lyrics certain ways, but it never went away. Larry is a whole other topic...Imma leave him alone I do believe that he was celibate but I think it may have been for health reasons Loved your post Krystal | |
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In the Chris Rock interview he states that he used sexuality as a way to garner attention and it worked. But he also stated that as a gemini, he had this female and male part of him as well, so it wasn't all an act. Like most people who grow up and mature (hopefully), their outlook in life changes. Like in the interview with Arsenio Hall, he says "there are many things I don't do anymore and some things I still do." He just grew up and I think his religion may have made him a bit more conservative, but he seemed to be heading that path regardless. Love is God,
God is Love | |
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How could I forget the Gemini aspects of it My son is one and yes they do have two very different sides Never knew he told Chris Rock that | |
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I think what made people question his orientation was his willingness to look like an object of desire and be objectified and the fact he didn't constantly shout "No homo!" It wasn't the frilly clothing, the makeup or the tight clothing in the beginning because a lot of 70s glam bands and 80s hair bands were quite flamboyant. They might have all worn similar clothing but only Prince was going to arch his back and stick his ass up in the air on a record cover.
As for why he started and continued well after that stopped being prevailing fashion? Well, Prince was a little pretty petite man with doe eyes. Most very short dudes HATE being short because there's this internalized sense of "I'm a man I should be bigger than my partner" and "my female partner should be smaller than me." A lot of women don't like being with small men because they've internalized that if they're not smaller than the guy they're with they're not "feminine" and they feel like they have to spend additional time buffeting their partner's male ego. Most men who are small run being small by either being very funny and disarming or being tough and aggressive as hell and trying to bulk up as much as possible. They don't think, "I'm going to exxagerate everything about me" like Prince did. He somehow realized that being in the body he was in gave him freedom and space to be more overtly sexual than he otherwise might have had because he's not perceived as a threat. Those scenes in Purple Rain, for example, where he's slapping Appolonia around in his house or under some underpass :-0 would take a much more threatening tone imho if he was an average size. | |
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Nurse I've been a Prince fan off and on since 1993 and he has been my alltime favorite artist EVER so I have loved reading about him and coming to my own conclusion about him. He was such a special person and no one in my lifetime will ever come close to inspiring me the way he did. He was a part of my life/my history even if he didn't know it...lol..just his music/who he was/his outlook on life shaped a part of my idenity.
As for the sex stuff...no I don't think it EVER went away...men naturally have a drop in testostrone around middle age...I'm not sure about abstaining because of health problems (I don't know about any of that) but it seemed his sexuality matured along with his personality. I am sure even though he was abstaining from sex he most definatly felt lust and masturbated, I don't care what the JW people say, it is very natural, especialy for men that would be VERY difficult for a man not to have any sort of sexual release....but I think his intention to abstain was admirable and something he felt was right for him. I think he was wanted to share his body with someone he loved. I think he craved the love/sex experience. His sexuality really seemed like it evloved he even alluted to something like this in some article (sorry I can't remember what it was called )where he was "admiring" the actress' body in the SHOE video but said if it was back in the 80s he would have written in an interaction between them with a "woman that fine" to satisfy his own sexual urges but he didn't care to do that anymore...he could now understand different components of sexuality, not just the carnality. I think he was trying hard in his older age to be in more control of his lustful nature. | |
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I have to stop looking at the pic long enough to form sentences... | |
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I think back to that anecdote Questlove gave in one of his writings a couple months ago. He cursed and Prince told him to pay the swear jar, and in the moment Questlove retorted "Man, but you taught me how to curse." | |
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Uh... as for historical context: some of that stuff seems tamer now (like "Controversy" could be sung by Lady Gaga without much controversy) and some of that stuff is still raunchy as hell (uh.."Gett Off" seems like it's going into Rule 34 territory). He still did that androgynous sensual dude thing until the end he just...toned it down a lot? For example there's an early performance of "Electric Intercourse" where he acts like he's personally getting hot and bothered right then and there and then when he performed it many years later, he didn't act like he was going to lose control right then.
As for being more conservative, I think he was in a lot of mental and physical pain. Maybe he felt he was paying a price in his personal life for breaking all of these rules so he sort of did a sideways pivot into a religion very much like the one he grew up in that his mother also happened to convert to and if he just tried to do things the "right" way, his personal life would be better? Hip pain actually does affect people's sex lives. Plus it's not like he had to prove he could get all of these women anymore, even to himself. | |
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Seems like I remember an interview where he said he was celibate in his later years, mostly because of the JW's policy. Read It Again...This Time, Say It Louder...Wrecka Stow!... | |
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I think other 70s groups were sexual but hell none of them wore underwear on stage and nothing else Prince knew he had the look to pull that off and the heels too...No other man in history couldve pulled that off but him. I think he knew that by being short he had to take folks minds off of that and he did I mean he was the only man who wore high heels that couldve took your woman. | |
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I think weve all loved Prince for years and followed his every move. You know I really think that his 2nd divorce did something to him as a man. He really was different...its like he wanted a relationship but either couldnt be in a serious one because of his fame or he just didnt know how. For someone who sang about sex like he did...maybe he was just tired of that persona he created | |
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I can only imagine how that made him feel, but its true. He helped to shape the sexuality and thoughts of so many young minds. Maybe he didnt realize that he was doing that back then and as he got older he figured out that he created alot of this stuff | |
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Im thinking he physically couldnt do all those things anymore so why sing about it when you cant do it then we started noticing the lyric changes like "doing it metaphysically." I hope he didnt believe he was being punished for earlier behavior | |
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They had something to do with it, but not all of it...something else was going on there | |
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Perhaps he loved his second wife very much and actually enjoyed being a husband to her. I felt Mani was more than just a pretty face...a lot more intelligent than his normal type...sort of like how Susannah Melvoin was, just not as threatening. I just finnished reading Alan Light's book and I was struck by Susannah's comments, they were extremely perceptive and she came across as a very intelligent woman...I remember Prince struggled with how cultured she was even though it intrigued him as well. Maybe Mani stood out to him and at that time in his life he was just ready to do it (marriage/commitment), Perhaps Mani reminded him in some ways of Susannah I don't know because we don't know much about her personality but I think Prince was very in love with her and liked the emotional security of being married to a woman he was really "into" and shared his passions...I agree with you...it seems the divorce was hard on him. | |
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About the time they divorced Mani was 30 and he was told, I think he needed double hip replacement? Thirty is supposed to be "aging reproductive freak out time" for women and I think hip surgery would have been frustrating to deal with, especially for someone who grew up and idealized the younger hypersexual Prince. He also liked them young. It's just absolutely funny to me that if he had met his wives at their current ages now they'd both be too old for him. Mature women just wouldn't have the "oh let me have my do-over" quality that someone like him would crave. (Ask me how many 50+ men think I'd be a great young second wife. LMAO.) Remember Mani was 25 when they married. As for being "ready to settle down", he was already way ready to settle down. Mani was a rebound or an exit from his first marriage when it turned out not to be some perfect fairytale. | |
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Pain. I mean, if you believe some random JW sites you're not even supposed to flirt if it's not serious. How someone like Prince who probably flirts like he breathes, and probably gets mistaken for flirting when he's not, pulls off "not flirting" is beyond me. (Just noticed that was all in present tense. ) | |
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Yes I meant he wasn't ready to be married when Susannah came along, I do believe he loved Susannah but in the 80s, let's get real, he was a horn dog and on top of the world he could almost have any woman ...by the time Mani came along he had already had all the models/Penthouse Pets/ babes any man would have wanted...maybe it just got old by the time his second wife came along. Also I believe he wasn't exactly faithful to Mayte but I never heard of cheating rumors with Mani...not that it didn't exist I just never heard any as a fan. | |
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I don't think mani was a rebound for him.. it was the longer marriage of the 2 that he had... he seemed genuinely hurt that she was divorcing him... seems like he enjoyed being married to her. Maybe she made him feel just like a regular person and he possibly enjoyed being able to let down his guard and not be prince the icon but Prince- mattie and John's son... a woman that can provide a man with that kind of comfort is one a man cherishes | |
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I think Wendy wrapped it all up in one statement: "Prince is a fancy lesbian." This, when she was asked about his sexuality. Prince always had a fine balancing act between the sacred and the profane in his best songs--there was always a tension between sexuality and spirituality that both attracted and repelled people...and still does to this day. That's one of the reasons why Prince is the best at his game and always will be. "Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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he realized early that sex sells and he did it up to the hilt. Personally, I don't even know if he was that driven sexually, it may have been just a ploy to get attention. Bruce Springsteen once honestly said something that I've never really heard a rockstar say "the public Bruce Springsteen doesn't exist". I think that may have been true for Prince too. I'm sure there were elements of the image that they embodied but I don't think it's accurate to real life. Also, we must remember, in earlier eras, it was very common for black males to soften their masculinity just to get over. Black males had to comprimise their masculinity to crossover, it went back to Little Richard and before. I once heard Billy Eckstine say that he had it hard because the public wanted high voiced black males in his era. I was also surprised when i read a little richard interview where he said he consciously played up his femininity so that he wouldn't be a threat. Maybe a joke, something to look at, but anything but a threat to white society. It worked. I also believe that Prince was just young and doing all he could to go against the grain, like the Punks did, anything you could do to be on the opposite side of the greater society is what he went for. Maybe because he was overdisciplined as a child, i don't know, but I believe that's whey he did many things. Whether he was gay or bi, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if he was bi but I am positive he was much more into women. Gay men usually hang out with other men whenever they can, Prince always, always hung out with women whenever possible and also hired them for his band. third eye girl is probably the most extreme example of this habit. | |
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I was wondering if a guy was even gonna click on this thread. | |
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nursev said:
I think other 70s groups were sexual but hell none of them wore underwear on stage and nothing else Prince knew he had the look to pull that off and the heels too...No other man in history couldve pulled that off but him. I think he knew that by being short he had to take folks minds off of that and he did I mean he was the only man who wore high heels that couldve took your woman. Stop staring at picture..... In reading some of the personal stories that have been posted, one of the band members (maybe Dez or Andre) said that they were doing a show & I think he said the manager (?) told Prince he wasn't wearing underwear & it showed & Prince needed to wear underwear. Well, he said Prince got "that" look & then he only wore underwear, no pants! Thank you SO much for that! As for heels, Prince said the women love them. Yes Prince, yes, we do, very much!! Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove | |
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zoso1978 said: Stop staring at picture..... In reading some of the personal stories that have been posted, one of the band members (maybe Dez or Andre) said that they were doing a show & I think he said the manager (?) told Prince he wasn't wearing underwear & it showed & Prince needed to wear underwear. Well, he said Prince got "that" look & then he only wore underwear, no pants! Thank you SO much for that! As for heels, Prince said the women love them. Yes Prince, yes, we do, very much!! I looooove that story! As for the heels, I think women were fine with them, but that ain't why he wore them. He could say that shit in a million interviews but we all know he learned how to work them shits to get some height I am not mad at him either [Edited 7/16/16 1:31am] | |
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I don't think Prince 'did that androgynous sensual dude thing' He was an androgynous sensual guy. Not an act. Are people really thinking that part of him was an act? Dance where y'are, just groove y'all.
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Stop staring at picture was a note to self in order to form a coherent thought or sentence......um,,,what was the ??? Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove | |
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Oh right......I found this quote I was looking for:
"People say I’m wearing heels because I’m short. I wear heels because the women like ’em.” - Caroline quoting Prince in today's new podcast.
Driftin back to the picture.....
Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove | |
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