Hmmm honesly - probably yeah.

I hate that guy's work.

I like those albums but man every time he shows up I feel the need to press next. It's so hard because the songs he is on are often great and he is like the friend who always rolls around to an event and makes it not as awesome as soon as he gets there. imo

I have heard these are out there and would be interested to hear them. I didn't mind Tony M so much on the Symbol album (maybe because I have always loved the album plus the tour for the album was the first time I ever saw Prince live). Still not a big fan of D&P (probably listened to this album the least of all Prince albums).

There is one set of songs that literally cuts his parts out without replacing them with something else (like an instrumental loop, etc). The songs are half the length, and not really listenable, IMO.

The other does the technique noted above, and you can appreciate the full flow of the songs, just without Tony M.

And trust me, you'll view those two albums in a whole new way without him.

I think I'm the only one who likes Prince's integration of Tony M in the 90s.

[Edited 9/24/16 23:17pm]

AnonymousFan said:

why change em now, but it wouldn't couldn't hurt, some of those songs are great and having an idiot mouthing off on them fucks them up.

NorthC said:

Tony works fine on Gett Off, Willing & Able, Sexy MF... His raps are part of those songs. You don't edit out Levi's guitar solo either because you prefer another guitarist, right? The Tony/Mayte questionnaire on Love 2 the 9s is an integral part of the song and the context of the album, you don't just throw that away. Just like the Affirmations on Art Official Age. As for Jughead and Push, those will never be good songs no matter who does the rapping, so just push the "next" button. (Which is also why I am uninterested in the vinyl reissues of these albums.) The only song that's really ruined by a rapper is I Rock Therefore I Am.

wow, you're in the minority. I can't argue the merits of his rapping, I hate rap by and large, i don't think it really has a place in Prince's music but he'd have been foolish not to include some of it in those years. Prince often was called stubborn, there was a case when he wasn't stubborn and it did help his sales at least on diamonds and pearls. However, i feel that some of the songs on the symbol album are great songs and the rapping is unnecessary and drags some of those tunes down.

These albums were born this way.

.

This is how Prince intended them to be.

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These are a representation of Prince's creative output at that moment in time.

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Tony M is was being who he is and I don't think he should be forced to change to make the minority happy.

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getwild180 said:

Would any of you prefer a version of the albums without Tony's vocals? The reason I ask this is because I found a fan torrent of them somewhere but I haven't listened to it yet. However it just brought me to this question to ask you guys. What would you prefer?

I find it tragic that people would share such fan edits online. Do it for your own pleasure if u will, but do NOT share those online. Some people may and will download those believing they r the real thing and the original work of art is being ruined for them without them even knowing. A perfect example is the 3 CD-set Boris had made editing Come/Gold material to simulate a possible triple album: regardless of how great a job he did, I've read time and time again fans believing it was, in fact, an actual unreleased album configuration.

Years ago was this dude called Ernestsewell who actually made this album and gave it away to anyone who want it. He edited out all the Tony M and any other rap references and the result was some of the tighest music Prince has ever made, it was like the 80s continued.

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Also on Peach and Black, they referred to a version of the album, called Diamonds and Pearls and Symbols with the rap removed. Yet I can tell you all now, at the Cream Prince party in Sydney in October 2013, when anything with Tony M came on, we were allon the floor and that included 3 of the cats from Peach and Black.

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So maybe we love Tony M to dance to, but not to sit down and listen to?

ernest, if i remember was a pretty good poster. never heard the mixes, i just block hip hop out anyway so it was never a problem for me. some of it was good though, style-p. control, joint to joint, all great cuts.

NorthC said:

TrivialPursuit said:

There is one set of songs that literally cuts his parts out without replacing them with something else (like an instrumental loop, etc). The songs are half the length, and not really listenable, IMO.

The other does the technique noted above, and you can appreciate the full flow of the songs, just without Tony M.

And trust me, you'll view those two albums in a whole new way without him.

Respectfully, having heard both sets, I'm of the opposite opinion. I do appreciate the care and effort that went into the faithful reproduction of the length of the songs on your preferred version. I just don't really like the lengthy instrumental loops replacing the removed raps, for the most part. IMO it makes it glaringly obvious that something is missing. Those spaces filled by loops are just begging for solos, or verses, or something.

It's also something of an overstatement to say the songs on the other version are half the length, but I take your point. They *are* shorter, well mostly, but IMO that works in this situation for the reason stated above.

Of course, bottom line, it's a matter of personal taste, and I can understand your preference for the other version. I am grateful to those who took the time to produce edits to their own liking and share them with us.

Slaughtering works of art is SO wrong, though

[Edited 9/25/16 15:34pm]

databank said:

i'm surprised that people feel this way with all the bitching about tony done over the years. can't say i disagree, but i have to be honest, many, many times I think "gee, this is really a great tune, if he'd only have left that shit off of it....".

AnonymousFan said:

I like to listen to these albums the way Prince intended. I understand that some fans naturally want to complete their collections so will buy everything that's available and that's fine but I don't see the sense in someone buying music that they can't stand! If you don't like it, don't buy it or download it. It's disrespectful to the artist when you change it, IMO your devaluing their work.

Tony M is a cancer that needs to be removed.

You remove it right away and then you save those albums.

I still like the albums - a lot even - but man does it help to cut that malignant thing off.

it's too bad prince ain't around to do it to give it "authenticity" nothing against tony, i'm sure he's a nice guy in spite of what rosie said about him but his mouth ruins some really great tracks. Hell, maybe prince was high all those years ago, bad choices.

Starrdust505 said:

I like to listen to these albums the way Prince intended. I understand that some fans naturally want to complete their collections so will buy everything that's available and that's fine but I don't see the sense in someone buying music that they can't stand! If you don't like it, don't buy it or download it. It's disrespectful to the artist when you change it, IMO your devaluing their work.

Yeah, because Tony M put so much market value into Prince's music. When you listen to those songs without the raps at the end, you realize that the songs weren't necessarily intended to have a rap in them at all. They were an afterthought, and that cheapened the songs as a whole.

Also, the bootleg of Diamonds and Pearls Beginnings didn't have Tony on them. Songs like "Daddy Pop", and "Willing And Able" were gems without his shitty input. "Daddy Pop" is longer, and has Rosie adlibbing through a fade out. "Willing and Able" is a straight-ahead jam,and could have easily had a guitar solo similar to "Sexy MF" in it instead. I mean, the organ solo is an organ solo, not a backdrop for Tony's machine-gun blathering.

Songs like "My Name is Prince", "Sexy MF", "Love 2 The 9s", and others are 100% stronger songs with his nonsense taken out. He wanted to "shove black down that nigga's throat", but all he did was shove shit down the fan's instead.

TrivialPursuit said:

Starrdust505 said:

I like to listen to these albums the way Prince intended. I understand that some fans naturally want to complete their collections so will buy everything that's available and that's fine but I don't see the sense in someone buying music that they can't stand! If you don't like it, don't buy it or download it. It's disrespectful to the artist when you change it, IMO your devaluing their work.

Yeah, because Tony M put so much market value into Prince's music. When you listen to those songs without the raps at the end, you realize that the songs weren't necessarily intended to have a rap in them at all. They were an afterthought, and that cheapened the songs as a whole.

Also, the bootleg of Diamonds and Pearls Beginnings didn't have Tony on them. Songs like "Daddy Pop", and "Willing And Able" were gems without his shitty input. "Daddy Pop" is longer, and has Rosie adlibbing through a fade out. "Willing and Able" is a straight-ahead jam,and could have easily had a guitar solo similar to "Sexy MF" in it instead. I mean, the organ solo is an organ solo, not a backdrop for Tony's machine-gun blathering.

Songs like "My Name is Prince", "Sexy MF", "Love 2 The 9s", and others are 100% stronger songs with his nonsense taken out. He wanted to "shove black down that nigga's throat", but all he did was shove shit down the fan's instead.

Yes, I agree with you to a certain extent about Tony's contribution to several songs. For example, MNIP in particular is a song I can't listen to and always skip and Love 2 the 9s is spoilt by the rap. Clearly Prince was producing music at this time that was way below his phenomenal capabilites and talent but ultimately it was his decision to cheapen his art in this way and release it. While we are at liberty to criticise his work and may think for whatever reason that certain parts of the music could be improved, I don't believe we have the right to change it.

NorthC said:

databank said:

Slaughtering works of art is SO wrong, though

[Edited 9/25/16 15:34pm]

Yep. You don't look at a Picasso painting and say, y'know, I don't like that part in the left upper corner, let me just grab a knife and...

Exactly!

Starrdust505 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Yeah, because Tony M put so much market value into Prince's music. When you listen to those songs without the raps at the end, you realize that the songs weren't necessarily intended to have a rap in them at all. They were an afterthought, and that cheapened the songs as a whole.

Also, the bootleg of Diamonds and Pearls Beginnings didn't have Tony on them. Songs like "Daddy Pop", and "Willing And Able" were gems without his shitty input. "Daddy Pop" is longer, and has Rosie adlibbing through a fade out. "Willing and Able" is a straight-ahead jam,and could have easily had a guitar solo similar to "Sexy MF" in it instead. I mean, the organ solo is an organ solo, not a backdrop for Tony's machine-gun blathering.

Songs like "My Name is Prince", "Sexy MF", "Love 2 The 9s", and others are 100% stronger songs with his nonsense taken out. He wanted to "shove black down that nigga's throat", but all he did was shove shit down the fan's instead.

Yes, I agree with you to a certain extent about Tony's contribution to several songs. For example, MNIP in particular is a song I can't listen to and always skip and Love 2 the 9s is spoilt by the rap. Clearly Prince was producing music at this time that was way below his phenomenal capabilites and talent but ultimately it was his decision to cheapen his art in this way and release it. While we are at liberty to criticise his work and may think for whatever reason that certain parts of the music could be improved, I don't believe we have the right to change it.

Thank u!

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said: Yep. You don't look at a Picasso painting and say, y'know, I don't like that part in the left upper corner, let me just grab a knife and...

Exactly!

.

In this case, Picasso let one of his assistants draw on his paintings. That's the part getting scrubbed.

injuredpinky said:

databank said:

Exactly!

.

In this case, Picasso let one of his assistants draw on his paintings. That's the part getting scrubbed.

Nonsense.

Well, I've been listening to the 'T-' versions and I love them. Better flow. The only one that I left with the original version, where I think the rap benefits the song, is 'Willing & Able' .

I still have the originals to go back to when I want, so any remix is welome, to be enjoyed or ignored.