jayspud said:

This is also a great way for Prince's legacy to be continued. The very act of being as aware as possible about all the business aspects of this industry is crucial. Prince has to learn in a very difficult way as a lot of what he did was very uncharted territory. I wish you every success and am glad you are thinkin about these considerations now and not much later

True ,the music industry can be very crucial especially when you have greedy people behind you! The Artist do all of the work and the record company want's all of the credit. I would have loved 2 do business with Prince NPG. Hopefully you'll hear my lyrics on soundcloud soon!

splitp said:

If u paid for the beats then u own them. That's my opinion. I am not a lawyer. But I have worked in music for 40 years. A good entertainment attorney could be a great investment IF your music makes a bunch of money, AND IF u have the cash to invest in such luxuries. Many of us don't.

i paid the guy $100.00 each for five tracks (beats).

He recorded me in his studio. After everything was

completed he mentioned that he's entitled 2 Royalalties

for the music. Also i don't understand why am i

responsible for having the music copywritting if i don't

own the beats!

purpleforeverlove said:

Guitarhero said:

Oh no, don't drink and write is my advice I fell in the spelling trap I can take it when i make a spelling mistake

[Edited 8/5/16 15:10pm]

I don't understand why Prince signed another contract with Warner bro. After fighting so long for his music. Then i read that he received death threats a couple of weeks before his death.I also read this is the reason that he wasn't eating, he felt like someone was trying to posin him.He gave his fans so much,it's so sad how his life ended.Everything that glitters ain't gold! 😢

Hey purpleforeverlove, I know it's late (Sat early morn now). I cannot sleep it sux!

I chanced upon your thread and saw this statment you amde about Prince and death threats before he died and reason he was not eating. Where did you hear this from, what source? I never heard this before...

Peace,

AnnaStesia10

AnnaStesia10 said:

purpleforeverlove said:

Guitarhero said: I don't understand why Prince signed another contract with Warner bro. After fighting so long for his music. Then i read that he received death threats a couple of weeks before his death.I also read this is the reason that he wasn't eating, he felt like someone was trying to posin him.He gave his fans so much,it's so sad how his life ended.Everything that glitters ain't gold! 😢

Hey purpleforeverlove, I know it's late (Sat early morn now). I cannot sleep it sux!

I chanced upon your thread and saw this statment you amde about Prince and death threats before he died and reason he was not eating. Where did you hear this from, what source? I never heard this before...

Peace,

AnnaStesia10

I've been doing so much research concerning Prince death, then all of a sudden i come across this video, i can't remember if it was on youtube. Someone in Prince's circle mentioned that he received maybe three or four phone calls threating 2 take his life. At first everyone thought it was a joke until he received a recorded video of Prince and his friends i believe they said in his front yard. i also read that he wasn't eatting and he was only drinking smoothies and when he died his weight was 112 pound. i keep so much 2 myself of what i feel happened because that's what friends are for! I wish i could have been one of his friends, i would have gave him so much advice Satan kept me from meeting him, he's good with destroying friendships! We had so much in common and we both were comedians. This is what the afterworld was about 2 Prince.( LEAVING ALL THIS ishhhh!) i loved the man so much, every since i was a baby! ( 15 years old) You don't mess with Jehovah's people, he was one of Gods children! Vengeance Is the lord!!! He gave so much 2 his fans and his life shouldn't have ended this way. I look at people like my uncle George Clinton 75 years old, Joe & Katherine Jackson, Bill Cosby etc. are still living and it's no way Prince shouldn't be here unless he was really sick. i notice that this past year he looked really sad and he seem like he lost so much weight. The last couple of weeks before he died i kept having dreams about him. I dreamed that i went 2 Paisley Park and i left a cd under his fence, they i dreamed that i should come back 2 Prince.org because Prince needed someone who he could trust to talk 2. i kept getting these feelings that something was wrong. i was suppose 2 be at his last concert but the tickets sold out.I wanted him 2 hear my lyrics so bad! Prince is at peace now, he's resting, he gave the world all that he could give. I'm trying not 2 hold on 2 the pain, I'm trying 2 hold on 2 the memories!

[Edited 8/6/16 12:44pm]

purpleforeverlove said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

Hey purpleforeverlove, I know it's late (Sat early morn now). I cannot sleep it sux!

I chanced upon your thread and saw this statment you amde about Prince and death threats before he died and reason he was not eating. Where did you hear this from, what source? I never heard this before...

Peace,

AnnaStesia10

I've been doing so much research concerning Prince death, then all of a sudden i come across this video, i can't remember if it was on youtube. Someone in Prince's circle mentioned that he received maybe three or four phone calls threating 2 take his life. At first everyone thought it was a joke until he received a recorded video of Prince and his friends i believe they said in his front yard. i also read that he wasn't eatting and he was only drinking smoothies and when he died his weight was 112 pound. i keep so much 2 myself of what i feel happened because that's what friends are for! I wish i could have been one of his friends, i would have gave him so much advice Satan kept me from meeting him, he's good with destroying friendships! We had so much in common and we both were comedians. This is what the afterworld was about 2 Prince.( LEAVING ALL THIS ishhhh!) i loved the man so much, every since i was a baby! ( 15 years old) You don't mess with Jehovah's people, Vengeance Is the lord!!! He gave so much 2 his fans and his life shouldn't have ended this way. I look like George Clinton 75 years old, Joe & Katherine Jackson, Bill Cosby etc. are still living and it's no way Prince shouldn't be here unless he was really sick. i notice that this past year he looked really sad and he seem like he lost so much weight. The last couple of weeks before he died i kept having dreams about him. I dreamed that i went 2 Paisley Park and i left a cd under his fence, they i dreamed that i should come back 2 Prince.org because Prince needed someone who he could trust to talk 2. i kept getting these feelings that something was wrong. i was suppose 2 be at his last concert but the tickets sold out.I wanted him 2 hear my lyrics so bad! Prince is at peace now, he's resting, he gave the world all that he could give. I'm trying not 2 hold on 2 the pain, I'm trying 2 hold on 2 the memories!

Wow, that is crazy right? I would like to view that interview on yt, do you member how you found it, what the name of it ? That is sad. I just assumed he stopped eating due to his illness, possible stomach issues that can be caused by pain medication. But that thought flashed in my mind about possibly not wanting to eat due to being poisoned - like something was going on that maybe we just didn't know like he didn't trust things anymore in his last days. But then I was like nah, he was just sick or in pain and there maybe is just a lot we simply just don't know. Man, all I know for sure is that you are right, he should be here on earth with us and it hurts when other older people are still here and he was taken from us. But isn't that life sometimes so unfair? I lost my mother a year ago and it feels just like that with Prince, intense sadness, disbelief and pain. I hope your career path is blessed and fabulous. I feel Prince would want you to pursue your dreams in music and carry him with you every step of the way!

AnnaStesia10 said:

purpleforeverlove said:

I've been doing so much research concerning Prince death, then all of a sudden i come across this video, i can't remember if it was on youtube. Someone in Prince's circle mentioned that he received maybe three or four phone calls threating 2 take his life. At first everyone thought it was a joke until he received a recorded video of Prince and his friends i believe they said in his front yard. i also read that he wasn't eatting and he was only drinking smoothies and when he died his weight was 112 pound. i keep so much 2 myself of what i feel happened because that's what friends are for! I wish i could have been one of his friends, i would have gave him so much advice Satan kept me from meeting him, he's good with destroying friendships! We had so much in common and we both were comedians. This is what the afterworld was about 2 Prince.( LEAVING ALL THIS ishhhh!) i loved the man so much, every since i was a baby! ( 15 years old) You don't mess with Jehovah's people, Vengeance Is the lord!!! He gave so much 2 his fans and his life shouldn't have ended this way. I look like George Clinton 75 years old, Joe & Katherine Jackson, Bill Cosby etc. are still living and it's no way Prince shouldn't be here unless he was really sick. i notice that this past year he looked really sad and he seem like he lost so much weight. The last couple of weeks before he died i kept having dreams about him. I dreamed that i went 2 Paisley Park and i left a cd under his fence, they i dreamed that i should come back 2 Prince.org because Prince needed someone who he could trust to talk 2. i kept getting these feelings that something was wrong. i was suppose 2 be at his last concert but the tickets sold out.I wanted him 2 hear my lyrics so bad! Prince is at peace now, he's resting, he gave the world all that he could give. I'm trying not 2 hold on 2 the pain, I'm trying 2 hold on 2 the memories!

Wow, that is crazy right? I would like to view that interview on yt, do you member how you found it, what the name of it ? That is sad. I just assumed he stopped eating due to his illness, possible stomach issues that can be caused by pain medication. But that thought flashed in my mind about possibly not wanting to eat due to being poisoned - like something was going on that maybe we just didn't know like he didn't trust things anymore in his last days. But then I was like nah, he was just sick or in pain and there maybe is just a lot we simply just don't know. Man, all I know for sure is that you are right, he should be here on earth with us and it hurts when other older people are still here and he was taken from us. But isn't that life sometimes so unfair? I lost my mother a year ago and it feels just like that with Prince, intense sadness, disbelief and pain. I hope your career path is blessed and fabulous. I feel Prince would want you to pursue your dreams in music and carry him with you every step of the way!

I'm trying 2 find the video. Lenny Kravitz mentioned that he believe he knew what happened 2 Prince but he as well as Shelia E wouldn't reveal 2 the public what happened.

https://youtu.be/qE7THXV2G_c Just like i heard that he didn't want the cd 2010 to be put out but he was under contract so he couldn't stop it. I believe i know the reason why but friends don't betray friends regardless of how much money you think you can recieve from a story. When a person is gone It's so sad when you think you've hurt them and you never had the chance 2 say I'm sorry! Damaris mentioned that she was his friend and i believe her. https://youtu.be/nBQg9_nnZOk

It's very hard for me 2 listen 2 purple rain especally the lyric

" I never wanted to be your weekend lover"
I only wanted to be some kind of friend
Baby I could never steal you from another
It's such a shame our friendship had to end!

Our path crossed on the org so sad we never met. i really wanted 2 be some kind of friend! I wouldn't have even revealed that our paths crossed on the org until i read a thread that mentioned people knew he was on the org. It was one of the happiests times of my life! Okay I'm searching for the video.

[img:$uid]http://i583.pho.../img:$uid]

AnnaStesia10 said:

purpleforeverlove said:

I've been doing so much research concerning Prince death, then all of a sudden i come across this video, i can't remember if it was on youtube. Someone in Prince's circle mentioned that he received maybe three or four phone calls threating 2 take his life. At first everyone thought it was a joke until he received a recorded video of Prince and his friends i believe they said in his front yard. i also read that he wasn't eatting and he was only drinking smoothies and when he died his weight was 112 pound. i keep so much 2 myself of what i feel happened because that's what friends are for! I wish i could have been one of his friends, i would have gave him so much advice Satan kept me from meeting him, he's good with destroying friendships! We had so much in common and we both were comedians. This is what the afterworld was about 2 Prince.( LEAVING ALL THIS ishhhh!) i loved the man so much, every since i was a baby! ( 15 years old) You don't mess with Jehovah's people, Vengeance Is the lord!!! He gave so much 2 his fans and his life shouldn't have ended this way. I look like George Clinton 75 years old, Joe & Katherine Jackson, Bill Cosby etc. are still living and it's no way Prince shouldn't be here unless he was really sick. i notice that this past year he looked really sad and he seem like he lost so much weight. The last couple of weeks before he died i kept having dreams about him. I dreamed that i went 2 Paisley Park and i left a cd under his fence, they i dreamed that i should come back 2 Prince.org because Prince needed someone who he could trust to talk 2. i kept getting these feelings that something was wrong. i was suppose 2 be at his last concert but the tickets sold out.I wanted him 2 hear my lyrics so bad! Prince is at peace now, he's resting, he gave the world all that he could give. I'm trying not 2 hold on 2 the pain, I'm trying 2 hold on 2 the memories!

Wow, that is crazy right? I would like to view that interview on yt, do you member how you found it, what the name of it ? That is sad. I just assumed he stopped eating due to his illness, possible stomach issues that can be caused by pain medication. But that thought flashed in my mind about possibly not wanting to eat due to being poisoned - like something was going on that maybe we just didn't know like he didn't trust things anymore in his last days. But then I was like nah, he was just sick or in pain and there maybe is just a lot we simply just don't know. Man, all I know for sure is that you are right, he should be here on earth with us and it hurts when other older people are still here and he was taken from us. But isn't that life sometimes so unfair? I lost my mother a year ago and it feels just like that with Prince, intense sadness, disbelief and pain. I hope your career path is blessed and fabulous. I feel Prince would want you to pursue your dreams in music and carry him with you every step of the way!

I forgot 2 mention sorry for the lost of your mother, hopefully you'll see her again in paradise. Rev 21:3,4 i feel your pain, i lost my father, he had lung cancer

purpleforeverlove said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

Wow, that is crazy right? I would like to view that interview on yt, do you member how you found it, what the name of it ? That is sad. I just assumed he stopped eating due to his illness, possible stomach issues that can be caused by pain medication. But that thought flashed in my mind about possibly not wanting to eat due to being poisoned - like something was going on that maybe we just didn't know like he didn't trust things anymore in his last days. But then I was like nah, he was just sick or in pain and there maybe is just a lot we simply just don't know. Man, all I know for sure is that you are right, he should be here on earth with us and it hurts when other older people are still here and he was taken from us. But isn't that life sometimes so unfair? I lost my mother a year ago and it feels just like that with Prince, intense sadness, disbelief and pain. I hope your career path is blessed and fabulous. I feel Prince would want you to pursue your dreams in music and carry him with you every step of the way!

I forgot 2 mention sorry for the lost of your mother, hopefully you'll see her again in paradise. Rev 21:3,4 i feel your pain, i lost my father, he had lung cancer

I'm on youtube listening 2 this lady. i just typed in Prince death threat. https://youtu.be/8GGHjmSlnvc

This is not the video that i watched, i heard it from from someone in his circle. By the way it was a man that i heard speaking on the video. I hope you're watching it with me. This is probaly what he ment: " Just when you thought you were safe" This is too much, I'm signing out after i watch this!

[Edited 8/6/16 12:37pm]

[Edited 8/6/16 19:24pm]

jayspud said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Again: this is nonsense. Go ask Mick Jagger et al who learned about this in the early 1970s.

First of all a lot of what prince went through was simply unprecendented. The Rolling Stones had legal issues regarding the payments from their music, yes, but they are not directly comparable to Prince's issues.

.

You obviously don't know anything about the Stones. Go look up on how long it took them to release a career-spanning compilation: DECADES. Why? Because most of their pre-1970s output was owned by another party.

.

The fact that the Rolling Stones received an unequitable deal does not in any way mean that Prince didn't have his own struggle to pursue. Prince may simply have done nothing and kept quiet but he actually chose to make a stand to make public the issues regarding the music business. Obviously being a different generation to the Stones this reached a whole new group of people.

Prince had a very different relationship with the music business than the Stones. This doesn't mean he didn't suffer some of the same explotation. Obviously Prince had form of relationbship with the Stones in the eraly eighties and may have some knowledge of their issues.

Prince was innovative in the music business. He..Just...Was.

.

That's a lot of words that say nothing at all.

BartVanHemelen said:

jayspud said:

.

You obviously don't know anything about the Stones. Go look up on how long it took them to release a career-spanning compilation: DECADES. Why? Because most of their pre-1970s output was owned by another party.

.

The fact that the Rolling Stones received an unequitable deal does not in any way mean that Prince didn't have his own struggle to pursue. Prince may simply have done nothing and kept quiet but he actually chose to make a stand to make public the issues regarding the music business. Obviously being a different generation to the Stones this reached a whole new group of people.

Prince had a very different relationship with the music business than the Stones. This doesn't mean he didn't suffer some of the same explotation. Obviously Prince had form of relationbship with the Stones in the eraly eighties and may have some knowledge of their issues.

Prince was innovative in the music business. He..Just...Was.

.

That's a lot of words that say nothing at all.

Oh, so Prince's struggle was about wanting to release a Compilation Album. Oh right, except of course it wasn't. Prince's struggles were different. In anything, it is well documenedt that he initally resisisted Warners Releasing a Compilation album.

Your second rubuttal is the equalivent of having a sulk in a Philosophy class when you have no counter-argument.

We get it. You don't like Prince, You don't value the vast majority of his work. You haven't liked anything for several decades now. I don't like football, so surprisingly enough I don't spend countless hours going on football forums telling everybody how much I don't appreciate football.

Do you have the right ot your opinion? Yes, I would say you do. Not because of freedom of speech as both of us aren't American and this is a private website but because it's just a good idea to let everyone have their say. This doesn't mean it can't be criticized. But I genuinely ask again, Is there any project, Album, Song that you have liked since 2000? I would just love to hear what you love.

Does it mean you aren't a fan because you don't? No, of ocurse not. Although you do state on your profile as not being a fan. I don't care if you like one note Prince once played back in 1982 but I just ask, What is in it for you if for the past several decades you have enjoyed nothing, receoved joy from nothing. Even now, after Prince's Death you won't let it go. I don't knwo if Prince upset you in some way. Ultimately Prince has given you more than he has taken, without Question. I love your knowledge and appreciate your dedication and it is of course up to you whether you think this might now be a good time to move on. I just hope that you find some value in Prince as an artist. There is a whole world out there, find something you love.

purpleforeverlove said:

Prince didn't believe in signing contracts, what was that all about?

It was about him being a dufus.

purpleforeverlove said:

I'm new to the business,I went to the studio and recorded five tracks.We recorded my lyrics and the guy music.If I paid him $500, $100 per beat do I own the music as well as my lyrics.The guy that recorded me gave me my master tape.If I become successful do I own everything the music or only my lyrics?I'm new to the business, wish I could have met Prince so he could explain to me what owning my masters is really about. When you pay someone for a Beat does that mean you own the music? Could someone please give me some advice? [Edited 8/4/16 0:51am]

I think the first step is making sure your masters are worth owning. Don't put the cart before the horse. Also, you (and anyone else), but be a fool to think that the major label system even exists in any sustainable way. Most independant labels don't ask for your masters. YOU own them and you lease the to the labesl for a specified time and then you get them back. I think 5 to 10 years is normal. The "business" doesn't exist anymore and Prince being around still wouldn't help you as the odds of you meeting would have been quite small and the odds of him having that conversation with you would have been even smaller. Whether or not you own the "beats" is up to the agreement you and the hack beatmaker came to. I'd say you probably own them since you paid for them.

Do exactly the opposite of Prince. Otherwise it'll take you 38 years to get your masters back.

jayspud said:

Oh, so Prince's struggle was about wanting to release a Compilation Album. Oh right, except of course it wasn't. Prince's struggles were different. In anything, it is well documenedt that he initally resisisted Warners Releasing a Compilation album.

.

Sigh... I give up. You obviously don't want to acknowledge a simple truth: that Prince's "struggle" wasn't unique at all and that others had encountered even worse decades earlier. And that Prince didn't give a single fuck about his rights until waaaay too late and then behaved like a spoiled child instead of a grown-up. And that he continued to do so, even back in 2014 when he signed his deal with Warners.

BartVanHemelen said:

jayspud said:

.

Sigh... I give up. You obviously don't want to acknowledge a simple truth: that Prince's "struggle" wasn't unique at all and that others had encountered even worse decades earlier. And that Prince didn't give a single fuck about his rights until waaaay too late and then behaved like a spoiled child instead of a grown-up. And that he continued to do so, even back in 2014 when he signed his deal with Warners.

Presumably by 'Grown Up' you mean just accept that you have been screwed and have a beer. Each artist's struggle is unique in it's own particualr circumstances. Were their issues with record companies before? Of course but without question Prince's was one of the biggest and certianly the most high-profile for my generation. The very fact that a lot of artist's came to appreciate their rights and what they needed to do through Prince's actios proves that.

I will try one very last time and then acccept the silence. Is there anything you have liked for the past 16 years that Prince has created? Just how long do you hold onto something which only produces hate within you. It must utterly baffle you the success, aclaim, achievment and admiration Prince receives.

steakfinger said:

purpleforeverlove said:

Prince didn't believe in signing contracts, what was that all about?

It was about him being a dufus.

Did you mean it was about Prince NOT wanting 2 be a dufus!

steakfinger said:

purpleforeverlove said:

I'm new to the business,I went to the studio and recorded five tracks.We recorded my lyrics and the guy music.If I paid him $500, $100 per beat do I own the music as well as my lyrics.The guy that recorded me gave me my master tape.If I become successful do I own everything the music or only my lyrics?I'm new to the business, wish I could have met Prince so he could explain to me what owning my masters is really about. When you pay someone for a Beat does that mean you own the music? Could someone please give me some advice? [Edited 8/4/16 0:51am]

I think the first step is making sure your masters are worth owning. Don't put the cart before the horse. Also, you (and anyone else), but be a fool to think that the major label system even exists in any sustainable way. Most independant labels don't ask for your masters. YOU own them and you lease the to the labesl for a specified time and then you get them back. I think 5 to 10 years is normal. The "business" doesn't exist anymore and Prince being around still wouldn't help you as the odds of you meeting would have been quite small and the odds of him having that conversation with you would have been even smaller. Whether or not you own the "beats" is up to the agreement you and the hack beatmaker came to. I'd say you probably own them since you paid for them.

Thanks for the info and your encouraging words!

[Edited 8/8/16 22:23pm]

Marrk said:

Do exactly the opposite of Prince. Otherwise it'll take you 38 years to get your masters back.

I hope i live 2 see 38 more years!

Boydie said:

True ,the music industry can be very crucial especially when you have greedy people behind you! The Artist do all of the work and the record company want's all of the credit.

You really need to get this type of thinking out of your head if you are looking at a career in the music business The reason they are "greedy" is because they take all of the risk, investing 10s of thousands to launch an artist - artist development, studio time, marketing, stylists, distribution, securing radio play etc. Have you got the capital to risk on yourself? The normal model is you get an "advance" of money that the label then deduct their costs from future revenues you will generate For every artist that "makes it" there are many (many many many) more that don't - so this investment is completely wasted, which is why they are greedy Without this initial investment PRINCE and many other artists would have never been heard of It is easy to complain after you have made the label millions - but it is also easy to forget that the label took a HUGE gamble on you in the first place PRINCE never had a problem with this model - however nowadays (due to reduced margins, streaming, piracy etc. - and the fact labels are run by accountants and not musicians) the labels are much more risk averse so tend to go with "safer bets", which translates as the same as what is currently selling well - so modern music is often considered less "creative" - which is why WB did not let PRINCE release album after album when he quickly got bored of the album WB wanted him to promote I just think PRINCE was too creative for this traditional model so I am glad he found a way to release and record the music he wanted The labels do sometimes get "too greedy" and end up killing/upsetting the golden goose, which is not good business but only to be expected when money is involved!!

True, you have a point, it's so much that you have 2 consider when you're thinking about pursuing a career with the music business!

I've been making records for 27 years, mostly independent label projects but was briefly signed to a major. I've also done some session work for producers. All of this was in the context of a rock band rather than beatmaking but here's what I can tell you.

.

Let's say my friends and I go in the studio and record our own songs. We pay the studio $1000 out of our savings and walk out with the multitracks as well as a completed & mastered stereo mix of the album. As of right now we own everything. We can sell copies on our website, press up CDs and records to sell at shows, put mp3s for sale on Itunes and get listed on Spotify, Tidal etc. As loing as we control the means of production and pay taxes, we can do whatever we want with it and keep all the money.

.

We could also approach a label to release it, or make a distribution deal.... and that's where it would get tricky. The label is going to want to make sure they can get back whatever money the invest in our band, and then some. So here a couple of things could happen.

.

We might sign a traditional record deal, take an advance to pay us back the $1000 we spent making it, and now the label owns those master tapes "throughout the known universe in perpetuity." Basically, we give up all ownership stake and agree to let the company own it, in exchange for the money and the deal. If it's a good deal, there will be some upfront money to the band, possibly tour support, and the label also agrees to manufacture all the copies and distribute them.

.

Now the label has to pay us royalties, after having recouped that initial cost of the recording, the pressing plant, the marketing budget and all that. That gets paid out of our artist royalties, and once it's recouped the expense, we start getting some more money. If it never recoups the expense, we never get any royalties.

.

Along the way we would have also made a deal for the songwriting royalties aka publishing, since those are our songs. Those have to get paid whether the expenses are recouped or not. Artists tend to want to keep their publishing these days, and maybe we agree that we keep 85% and the label takes 15%.

.

So if the record stiffs, it's likely that the advance money we got, is all we will ever get. However if it's a big success, then it will pay for itself and I'll start collecting big checks too. Presuming the label is honest & lives to its part of the deal.

.

The problem for an artist like Prince is that with a big company putting so much money on the line, they want to exert some control in the process. Maybe they pressure him to make more commercial music to have hits, or stay on the road longer than he wants to be out there. They may pressure him to do TV appearances and go on morning radio DJ shows. And he might say well, I don't want anyone having control of my life and get out of that deal.

.

By that time, he's a world famous star, so he has a lot of power to do stuff on his own and still get it out there, without having to commit to one person or company for years and years. So in his later years he makes short-term licensing deals with different labels. No one controls him - they just act as the cashier for the album purchase.

.

So you might say, why not make licensing deals right at the beginning? Why sign a contract at all?

.

Well, if it's a good label, it's in a position to promote you & get you in front of an audience. They can get you there faster than you ever could on your own. And if they "own" you, they are going to do what they can to make sure you recoup the investment - they will use every resource they have to make you a success. The bigger the investment, the harder they will try.

.

For so long it was the tendency of artists to just throw themselves at record albels and say "do with me what you will". Nowadays the artists are more savvy and deal terms more widely understood. It's a different world than it was 20 years ago, there are fewer labels working at the low end of the spectrum, like "here's $1000, go make a record".

.

Anyway good luck. I will add that Boydie is making a lot of sense on this thread. Record labels are seen as villains nowdays. Whether you work with one or not, it's a good idea to have a balanced view of what goes on and not put value judgments on it like "virtuous artist vs. felonious record label." Understand the forces at work and how they can be used to your advantage. Make reality serve you rather than you serving it.

Boydie said:

bobzilla77 said:

jayspud said:

purpleforeverlove said:

bobzilla77 said:

I've been making records for 27 years, mostly independent label projects but was briefly signed to a major. I've also done some session work for producers. All of this was in the context of a rock band rather than beatmaking but here's what I can tell you.

.

Let's say my friends and I go in the studio and record our own songs. We pay the studio $1000 out of our savings and walk out with the multitracks as well as a completed & mastered stereo mix of the album. As of right now we own everything. We can sell copies on our website, press up CDs and records to sell at shows, put mp3s for sale on Itunes and get listed on Spotify, Tidal etc. As loing as we control the means of production and pay taxes, we can do whatever we want with it and keep all the money.

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We could also approach a label to release it, or make a distribution deal.... and that's where it would get tricky. The label is going to want to make sure they can get back whatever money the invest in our band, and then some. So here a couple of things could happen.

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We might sign a traditional record deal, take an advance to pay us back the $1000 we spent making it, and now the label owns those master tapes "throughout the known universe in perpetuity." Basically, we give up all ownership stake and agree to let the company own it, in exchange for the money and the deal. If it's a good deal, there will be some upfront money to the band, possibly tour support, and the label also agrees to manufacture all the copies and distribute them.

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Now the label has to pay us royalties, after having recouped that initial cost of the recording, the pressing plant, the marketing budget and all that. That gets paid out of our artist royalties, and once it's recouped the expense, we start getting some more money. If it never recoups the expense, we never get any royalties.

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Along the way we would have also made a deal for the songwriting royalties aka publishing, since those are our songs. Those have to get paid whether the expenses are recouped or not. Artists tend to want to keep their publishing these days, and maybe we agree that we keep 85% and the label takes 15%.

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So if the record stiffs, it's likely that the advance money we got, is all we will ever get. However if it's a big success, then it will pay for itself and I'll start collecting big checks too. Presuming the label is honest & lives to its part of the deal.

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The problem for an artist like Prince is that with a big company putting so much money on the line, they want to exert some control in the process. Maybe they pressure him to make more commercial music to have hits, or stay on the road longer than he wants to be out there. They may pressure him to do TV appearances and go on morning radio DJ shows. And he might say well, I don't want anyone having control of my life and get out of that deal.

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By that time, he's a world famous star, so he has a lot of power to do stuff on his own and still get it out there, without having to commit to one person or company for years and years. So in his later years he makes short-term licensing deals with different labels. No one controls him - they just act as the cashier for the album purchase.

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So you might say, why not make licensing deals right at the beginning? Why sign a contract at all?

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Well, if it's a good label, it's in a position to promote you & get you in front of an audience. They can get you there faster than you ever could on your own. And if they "own" you, they are going to do what they can to make sure you recoup the investment - they will use every resource they have to make you a success. The bigger the investment, the harder they will try.

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For so long it was the tendency of artists to just throw themselves at record albels and say "do with me what you will". Nowadays the artists are more savvy and deal terms more widely understood. It's a different world than it was 20 years ago, there are fewer labels working at the low end of the spectrum, like "here's $1000, go make a record".

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Anyway good luck. I will add that Boydie is making a lot of sense on this thread. Record labels are seen as villains nowdays. Whether you work with one or not, it's a good idea to have a balanced view of what goes on and not put value judgments on it like "virtuous artist vs. felonious record label." Understand the forces at work and how they can be used to your advantage. Make reality serve you rather than you serving it.

It's so much to think about. I went 2 the studio today 2 get some advice concerning my cd,I have my master cd that I recorded with my lyrics and also the cd with only the music just in case I'm performing.my friend started off by saying that he wanted me me to record everything over in his Studio and he also wanted to add some guitar and keyboards to the cd. He also mentioned that it didn't sound like the guy in California mixed my recording. Then he asked if I owned the music because he didn't want to start any confict by changing the music.I don't know what to do I'm really satisfied with the music and recording that I did in California. I feel that I should keep what I have and work on another project with him. [Edited 8/9/16 23:13pm]

Do what P did, make a maxi-single.

purpleforeverlove said:

It's so much to think about. I went 2 the studio today 2 get some advice concerning my cd,I have my master cd that I recorded with my lyrics and also the cd with only the music just in case I'm performing.my friend started off by saying that he wanted me me to record everything over in his Studio and he also wanted to add some guitar and keyboards to the cd. He also mentioned that it didn't sound like the guy in California mixed my recording. Then he asked if I owned the music because he didn't want to start any confict by changing the music.I don't know what to do I'm really satisfied with the music and recording that I did in California. I feel that I should keep what I have and work on another project with him. [Edited 8/9/16 23:13pm]

So, unless you sampled other peoples' records while making your CD, you do own the music and the masters and there is no conflict.

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If you are happy with the mix, and everything on it, go ahead and put it out. Your friend who has his own studio can say whatever he wants, you should change this, you should add that. Maybe he likes the stuff and wants to get into it, thinks he has some ideas to make it better. Maybe he doesn't have anything else to work on. Maybe he wants you to spend money in his studio. You have to decide if this someone who you want to work with, if his ideas are any good, if he is able to make those ideas real in the studio.

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Definitely do NOT let anybody talk you down and tell you they know better than you, what your record should be. This is your music. It's one thing to be humble and open to suggestions from people you respect and who are in a position to help you. But there are a lot of people who want to tell you they know better, when really they don't know much.

Here's one example of a scenario in which you might work with a label and still retain ownership of your masters.

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One of my bands recently made a deal with a label in Europe that's largely a no-cash transaction. We paid for recording & have a completed master of the stereo mix. The label is not giving us an advance, however they are paying for the pressing, handling the dstribution, and working on booking a tour. If they can get us enough $ in guarantees to go over there, they have the organization to do the booking, set us up with equipment and a vehicle, and handle the paperwork. Once the album is pressed we will get a certain number of copies of the vinyl and CD which we can sell on our website or at the shows. They have a promotional dept which will push us in Europe.

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What does the label get? Rights to distribute the album throughout Europe and Asia for 7 years. After that, rights revert back to us automatically. We can make another deal with them, or another label, at that time.

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What do we get? The pressing is paid for, distribution is taken care of, and we have PR people working for us. And the potential to do a European tour, with all expenses paid. I mean, we're ultimately paying for it, but we don't have to go out of pocket for plane tickets and hotels, and working with a reputable agency is a must when booking overseas.

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We're already out of pocket for the recording expenses and not getting that back all at once. But with a few hundred copies headed our way, if we sell them all at full price, we end up with a few thousand dollars, more than enough to recoup. After a certain number of sales, we start getting traditional royalties instead of copies.

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And we always own the masters. There was no pressure or even suggestions from the label at the time we were making it. They're not putting enough $$ into it to demand a lot of control, which is OK with us since we can work pretty econo and dont want to be controlled.

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It feels like a step up from our last album, which was funded via Kickstarter. We had total control and total financial responsibility. While it paid for the pressing and allowed us to get it straight into the hands of people who wanted it, it was a lot of work, and didn't really sell enough to recoup all the upfront costs. With this situation, we're attached to a label that already has its own fan base and its own promotional machine, that can take on some of the upfront cost of pressing, mastering, listing fees and so forth. We can work in partnership toward the same goal of selling a lot of records.