Starmist7 said:

Starmist, this is the most I have ever seen you contributing on any one post! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

mistermaxxx said:

This is very much related to the point I made quite some time ago to you (on another thread), about Prince's image being a limiting factor in this culture.



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[This message was edited Thu Apr 3 5:04:37 PST 2003 by Anji]

NettieSmiles said:

Case closed.

I think Hip Hop culture was an extremely important movement in the 80's and it gave a voice to a generation of black kids who needed to be heard. However today it is no longer a movement. It is a commercialised juggernaut that is exploited the world over, and followed by young middle class kids who can have no concept of what it was originally about. Now its generally no different to commercial pop like Britney (although ive always got time for Missy).

When its good its excellent, when its bad its truly awful. Innovative hip hop is always good, but the manufactured shit is just dire. The social commentary of 80s hip hop has been replaced by the current crop of hip hop artists who seem to have very little to sing about which shows how its lost its way.

When I was younger many of my friends were into hip hop, and the culture they thought it glamorised, but they were white middle class british kids who couldnt possibly understand the culture, and nor did they try. they just followed it like kids would follow michael jackson or madonna, like eminem today.

CrozzaUK said:

Nice one, Crozza! The only thing I'd like to add is that 'innovative' hip hop is still being created by certain artists. You might want to check out Common's new album, 'Electric Circus.' Prince paralleled it with 'Around The World In A Day.' It is just as strong an artistic statement, as it is an innovative take on hip-hop...

When I was in high school, we were playin Run DMC, NWA, 2 Live Crew, and the Beastie Boys. And everyone my age thought they wanted to rap for a living. High school silliness...but nuthin' sounded quite as good as the deep hum of an 808 drum machine coming out of a pair of good 12" woofers in the trunk, and I always envied the kids that managed to put together a good rig.

In college, I began to let go of most of my rap-influenced youth and was broadening my palette. And right about then Tony M. appeared. I thought it was the weakest shit I'd ever had the misfortune of hearing--a clumsy step backward.

teller said:

Sales figures of Batman - Graffiti Bridge - Diamonds & Pearls - , please? Anyone??

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Jughead (Jughead)
Yeah, we gettin' funky in the house tonite
Kickin' the jughead (Doin' the jughead)
Come on, get stupid, get stupid
Kickin' the jughead (jughead)
Oh yeah, we gettin' funky in the house tonite
Kickin' the jughead, yeah (Doin' the jughead)

fairlite said:

I dig Jughead, I mean, I really dig it.

Anji said:

Try not to generalize there, Anji. I can't say I was a huge fan of rap when it first went mainstream (1986 or so?). I remember feeling like it was a cop-out, musically, the same way I feel about today's ska8ter punk. Anyone could 'talk to the beat' behind a mic and it didn't take a lot of craft with an instrument as it does with a guitar or a voice. So yes, I had a prejudice about it at the time.

However, what always impressed me about Prince was the way he would take a trend that was about to become prevalent and add his own twist to it. He had already rapped himself on several songs like Irresistable Bitch and that was done with his own special stamp, but then he took it to the next level by having Cat rap on a Prince single (Alphabet Street) and DOUBLE TRACKED her to boot! No one was doing this at the time, and there actually were very few female rappers charting at all in the summer of 1988, so I thought "...well, if he has to concede to a trend at least he's done something slightly new with it".

But when he added Tony and the Game Boyz to the big band NPG concept, it did not take anything to the next level - it felt common. Everyone was adding rappers by that point and The Game Boyz raps were the pedestrian "we're the shit" type of raps. Also it distracted from the classy idea of going back to live instruments, since rap was associated with electronic beats and didn't comfortably fit with a live band sound. I know that that was probably the point of it all and maybe Prince thought of that as taking it to the next level, but it just didn't gel to my ears. The warm tones of the live band buried the deeper tones of Tony M's raps and sonically it just made mud.

Now having said all that I have to say - just last night - I pulled out the first NPG record and listened while I went to sleep. I actually gained a new respect for the lyrical content after having decifered it for the first time. Inexplicably, I enjoyed Goldnigga tremendously - more than ever in the past.

hip hop died in 92

Jestyr said:

This is what bothered me; Tony M. was just some generic rapper. And maybe I'm too harsh on it all recently because I never listen to rap anymore...or hip hop or whatever they call it these days...

Anji, I know the sales figures were great, but what has that got to do with anything?

Tony M. was indeed very generic. If he actually had skills perhaps he'd get more respect. Moreover, Prince has never really shown an ability to incorporate hip-hop well. Which is not necessarilly a criticism of Prince's musical ability. As far as I know, no artist can perform every genre well, musicial genius or not. For me, the fact that Prince has mastered more than his share of genres forgives his ham-handedness at using hip-hop.

Anji said:

Thank you for reading...
[This message was edited Thu Apr 3 17:15:20 PST 2003 by Starmist7]

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

preacher sista girl I co -sign I just like em sexy and no body is sexier than Prince

Anji said:

You taggin' me for being vague??

Jestyr said:

I've always loved Prince's hybrid. He takes the propulsive rhythm of rap but also manages to incorporate a sense of melody and harmony. Just as with his straight melodic arrangements, Prince's rap is about dynamic layers. He blurs the boundary between hip-hop and conventional pop melody. Just listen to something like Housequake, or more recently Silicon. That said, I agree that when Prince loosens his grip and allows an established hip-hop artist free reign, the results are far from outstanding.Tony M was OK because Prince built a wall of voices around him-- but where the rap is left to its own devices, so to speak, there is nothing distinctively Princely about it.

i used to like hiphop. But nowadays, hip hop is dead. I don't like all that Eminem, 50cent, Ja Rule shit.

i prefer good old Public Enemy, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul records instead.

Whatever happened to the basics? it ain't all about fucking ho's and slapping yo mama in the face. it's about making sense, try to educate the people. not make them more stupid.

common, the roots,.. those guys are good, people need to listen to them a bit more.

tony M was chubby...

theres this song "call the law" live on video he looks like a sweaty sack of fat yelling...i thought it was one of Prince´s jokes...it probably was

Eraserhead said:

that's what i'm sayin' Yo! somebody on the same Vibe i am. the Last Hip Hop CD/Album i bought was Digital UnderGrounds Greatest Hits & that's a ThrowBack Album

my last hiphop album was "apocalypse 91, the enemy strikes black' - Public Enemy..

A classic one.

good to know that u have the same opinion!