Remember when he was on this kick about not believing in time? Well, I would like to read anything prince wrote while believing that, I have read things in the past, but have no clue where to find it..

if u have anything, would like to read.

Thanks

Sdldawn said:

GET THE RAVE 2000 VIDEO...HE says "TIME IS A TRICK" U aint supposed 2 age.

Its not a KICK...it's fact.

Adam lived a long time
Moses did too...
they didnt have medicine back then so how did they LIVE for a very long time...

Could it B that TIME makes U schedule too much of things in 2 your life instead of just living?

That is how I feel.
If U didnt have to worry about MONEY so much...or the system we are in...then time would be no more and we could TRULY GET BACK TO FAMILY ...the right way.

Respectfully,
SingMia

He may not believe in time, but time sure as hell
believes in us all.

So that's why he's always late for his concerts!

okaypimpn said:

cold-blooded...

Explains why you NPG Music Clubbers didn't get ONA for so long.

Lammastide said:

[This message was edited Mon Mar 24 9:25:42 PST 2003 by okaypimpn]

So that's why they haven't released anything since Pandemonium


I could make you happy. If you just believed in me

Francis L. edit
[This message was edited Mon Mar 24 9:22:30 PST 2003 by chickengrease]

TipN4U said:

When I said "kick" I meant Prince's "Kicks" didnt say I never believed that, but Prince does get off on kicks and he wont shut up, then after its done with, its never spoken about again..

Check his mind set in the 80's.. where is that at?

its not in him anymo

chickengrease said:

Well, I don't know what he said or what he didn't say, but the fact of the matter is:
Time is NOT a trick. It exists. It just IS! Regardless of whether somebody philosophically/metaphysically denies it or explains it away. It just IS! Regardless of whether they like it or not. Mental denial does not change realities. Mary Baker Eddy(Christian Science) said that sickness didn't exist. One could be healed by just denying it. Well we all know that that is a crock. Sickness does indeed exist.

We are born. We live. We die. The earth orbits the sun. The moon orbits the earth. The earth rotates...day and night. Seasons: summer, winter, fall, spring. We age. We change. Things change. This has nothing to do with a "system" of man or the devil. It is the created order. God's order. Genesis 1:14

Now if he had said something like, "There's coming a point(or let's say time or age, just for the sake of explanation) when time will be no more: ETERNITY, then I can handle that, but as for NOW(the NOW), we human beings exist in TIME.

If he didn't believe in time then he probably wouldn't show up for any public peformances, late or otherwise. He wouldn't set specific times to rehearse his band.
Regardless of what he said or didn't say he DOES believe in TIME. People fool themselves with lofty "words" that are meaningless where the rubber meets the road. Their actions prove otherwise.

NPGMC's track record for shipments should be a pretty clear testament to P's disbelief in the concept of time. I'd hate to try to meet that man for a movie - ya'd miss all the previews and half the opening credits...

mistermcgee said:

I just want to comment briefly on the Mary Baker Eddy part because I read, studied, attended Christian Science materials & church for awhile years ago. I believe there are elements of The Truth in many religions. There are proven cases of people believing so much in their wellness that they have overcome dis-ease in their bodies; some people say by having faith; some people say by speaking the Word. I do believe these things are true; I don't think all people can accomplish healing through their own efforts but I do believe it's possible.

I definitely think that we get forced into certain roles, certain scripts in life. Many of these patterns are negative; they bring us down so to speak to a lesser level of existence than what we humans are potentially capable of. We can soar to great heights, including healing illness but it requires REAL belief; it maybe requires lots of work to get to such a point.

I see what you are saying about time being real - well yes in a way; but that's the point -- we are lulled into accepting it in the ways and to the degree that it restricts us. Maybe we can see that yes we do function in time but to endeavor to overcome the restrictions that time places upon us - depending, I think, on a person's cultural and environmental experiences, we can move outside of those limitations, those parameters, and live gloriously fulfilled and enthusiastically joyful lives. I know many people who seem able, in this or that way, to really get out of the box and accomplish things that "society" deems extraordinary, or unique, or special. But I believe that everyone can accomplish much more than what we, as a whole, accomplish now - to the degree that such occurrences will not be considered extraordinary or miraculous; those type accomplishments will become the norm.

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Thanks for your response HolyWine. There is still a vast difference between believing in one's wellness and overcoming disease in the body, having faith to be healed, or having faith or speaking the Word and being healed, and denying the reality of sickness. If sickness does not exist then neither does healing. That's the point. A person was healed because they were actually sick.

To overcome the restrictions, limitations, parameters that time places on us is not the same as denying the reality of time itself. It's overcoming in and through it. One is still accomplishing all those things IN TIME. Living a gloriously fulfilled and enthusiastically joyful LIFE(which occurs in TIME).

So my response once again is that time still exists. Not in a way. It just exists. Period.

HolyWine said:

I fully agree HolyWine. the mind certainly can heal the body in some cases/circum- stances. the mind is very powerful, indeed, but not everyone is strong enough, or focused enough to do so. in alot of ways the body can heal itself without much effort. (depending on the condition) now, i never studied scientology or any idealogy that strongly believes in this, but it IS noted in medical books. most of our traditional thinking doctors, who also do not believe in taking vitamin supplements or herbs...will be quick to dismiss the concept of this type of healing also. the point i'm making here is "do not underestimate the power of the mind". it we believe or not believe in certain things (such as time) it IS possible 2 convince ourselves of anything IMO. however as far as time goes, i feel in this world, mostly we'd be lost as far as being able to function in a society that places much importance on time frames. if we were 2 live on a remote island somewhere, time would be of much lesser importance. ppl usually flow with the "status Quo". as far as age goes, i feel one can also train "the brain" to think of urself as much younger. just as hypnosis will work on some ppl to stop smoking, or lose weight, or transcend urself into the past to conjure up an important memory that remains dormant--because again, "the brain's" unconscious buries these occurences to aleviate the pain that bringing it to the surface would endure. our brain can refuse 2 acknowledge many things from our past. this is a blessing 4 many ppl, as well as a curse 4 those seeking the truth. i have known of ppl (getting back 2 age a min.) that can stop their aging process and look & feel & act younger by positive thinking. no one says this is easy, but can be done. lots of repititious thinking and really BELIEVING (alot like meditation). it HAS worked 4 ME yrs.ago in a certain situation i was in. so i know it is possible.

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I believe he might have believed in real time, but not the way we set it up. U know, our calendars. Because time moves forward and ppl have anneversaries and holidays, which doesn't make sense.
I mean how can u say that this periode of time is the same length as another periode of time (like this year and next year.)
Its just hard to believe. But since scientist predict a lot of crap, i might have gone wrong somewhere in my explaination.
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Prince is right! Time is an illusion. Clocks and calenders keep us in the matrix of time bound ensalvement. Do you think a dog knows what time it is? We have the abilty to use our minds to create our own reality and so we can stop time by not following it or at laest not giving it power as in celebrating birthdays... When you live in the NOW there is never any time until the minds steps in and tells you about time. Now its time for me to go to bed! There I go again

TerryD said:

So you just have a Celebration at Paisley Park every year, right? And people aren't dogs.
Time is not an illusion. Regardless of mental delusions. indeed

If Prince doesn't believe in time then why is this lyric in TRC?

Devil, devil, what u know?
U been here since 1914, but now u got 2 go

1914 A.D. is a time designation of a specific year based on the Gregorian calendar.

Why would he espouse lyrically the faulty, erroneous and shifting chronology of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? A religious system/organization who's whole doctrinal superstructure hangs on alleged dates of invisible presences, returns, and prophecy fulfilments?
If he didn't believe in time then there's no way he could accept such chronology. 607 B.C. to the last fiasco in 1975.

okaypimpn said:

NOT FOR THE ONA TOUR HE WASN'T!

mistermcgee said:

I see your points, mistermcgee. It's certainly interesting stuff. I remember in one of my Bible-study groups one man explained illness this way: illness is a FACT but it is not the TRUTH. I don't know if I can explain that accurately but I'll try, at least as I see it. Something exists in our reality, e.g., it's a FACT that I may have a cold (coughing, runny nose, etc.) but the TRUTH (talking God's truth here) is that I am a perfect creation of the universe, of universal creative energy, of love (God is love) and as such I am actually totally healthy; I cannot be otherwise. Now, if I can unconditionally KNOW that to be TRUE, then BAM the cold can just not be; it will no longer exist because I am then functioning on a different plane of existence (deeper TRUTH realization). I have done this with headaches in the past. I don't practice this all the time but at one time I practiced this with some headaches & I know that they were gone within seconds or minutes. I don't think this is unlike a person consciously altering their mood - say they are angry or bored or sad and they decide they want to be peaceful or happily occupied or joyful. If they are serious then I believe they do have that capability to be in the happy state & the unhappy state just isn't there any longer. Mind over matter; intent; focus - different people call this process different things but I think we have lots of examples of it in our world.

Time: again I see your point for sure. Time provides our society with structure to keep things running as smoothly as possible - simple example is people having schedules for their jobs which keeps our system of things running "properly" or the timing of traffic lights - a very important time-based function in our world. So yes we function in time. But there's a level of realization that time even in the here and now isn't real. It's like the sickness example. Yes time is a FACT in our world but it's not the TRUTH. I believe that TRUE REALITY is the SPIRITUAL WORLD, not the world of substance in which our bodies function. Therefore, I have no problem in believing that time does not exist because I'm referring to what I accept as TRUE REALITY, i.e., the SPIRITUAL WORLD. Now I don't live this way - I'm in my human body going through many FACTUAL conditions (illnesses, time) but I believe that TRUTH is awesomely & unimaginably more than this physical realm. So the spiritual (TRUTH) path that I'm on includes glimpses into "total well-ness" and "timelessness."

I don't expect that I've proven anything here. I wish I could but I think whether or not a person is going to grasp or accept these type concepts depends on where they are on their spiritual path, or maybe how deep their knowledge is of physics because through the years I've learned bits & pieces in the physics field and I think it deals with some of these issues and come to think of it also medical science in terms of healing cancer cells, etc.

Well, for what it's worth, there are some more of my thoughts and I'm glad to have had the opportunity to present them. Thanks and Peace.
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The onoly time he believes in is CP time..thats why concerts are starting so late as mentioned..and those aftershows or parties..3 a.m. etc? Wtf.

rdhull said:

exactly!!! he say "party at 11 pm", that's shit ain't gonna be till like 1 am (2 am, if ya lucky)...

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

He's on some "Before We Were Colored" People time..2 a.m.

I stand on my premise in regards to this threads' topic. Time exists. It is a true reality. I then used sickness to demonstrate another reality. Sickness exists. It just is. No matter how a person couches his/her denials or redefinitions in self-contradicting "double-talk"-metaphysical language: a form of Gnosticism.
The opposing argument has gone something along this line(notice the subtle shift):
1.Time doesn't exist
2.Time is an illusion
3.Time is a FACT(it exists in our reality)but it's not the TRUTH.

Here's where we are: Time(sickness) is a FACT but it's not THE TRUTH(on some supposed higher level or plane/what is referred to as God's truth)
That would mean that time(sickness)is a lie. So now my question is: Do lies exist?
You see, the original issue was the question of reality and existence. What is real? What exists? It was then finally admitted that time(sickness) exists as a FACT in what is described as "our reality". Then supposedly on another level of realization, time(sickness) doesn't exist- what is referred to as TRUE REALITY, God's truth, or the spiritual world.
In my opinion,that is not another level of realization at all. It is simply mental dismissal. Mental gymnastics.
It was stated that TRUE REALITY is the SPIRITUAL WORLD, not the world of substance in which our bodies function.
However, God's TRUTH is that he KNOWS all about the FACTS of the human condition. He created man with both a spiritual and physical(material)nature. This is a FACT, THE TRUTH according to Scripture. The physical and spiritual are both very true realities.
I would like to quote W. Martin:
...all rational persons will admit the reality of their physical existence. There are three principle reasons for this admission...
1)Man is capable of perceiving his corporeal form
2)The demands of the body...prove that it has a material existence
3)The human mind is capable of discerning the difference between concrete and abstract ideas, the body being easily discerned as a concrete proposition.
Mary Baker Eddy wrote:
Man is not matter;he is not made up of brain,blood,bones and other material elements...Man is spiritual and perfect;and because he is spiritual and perfect,he must be so understood in Christian Science. Man is idea,the image of Love, he is not physique.

Genesis 2:7 plainly states however that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul(Hebrew-"nephesh"-a living being).
God is the one who created all matter and all forms of living organisms and finally man himself in the spiritual image and likeness of his immaterial Father. Man thus exists physically AND spiritually. You can discern BOTH realities. The physical/material world is just as REAL and TRUE as the spiritual. Recognizing this is the the TRUTH of GOD.
To deny the true reality of matter, philosophically speaking, is to predicate the worst type of absurdity.

Now going back to the example of the cold:
The FACT and the TRUTH would be that you had a cold and would be in need of healing. God would know this fact or truth of your condition. Jesus never healed people by denying the reality of the disease he intended to cure, on any level:physical/material or spiritual. He didn't say that on the Father's level(in the spiritual realm;some higher or deeper level)or according to God's truth that a person was not sick. Rather, he affirmed sickness' TRUE REALITY and glorified the Father for the cure.
Once again, the Bible affirms humans are at once both physical and spiritual beings, created by a personal and living God. Man was not created by some abstract, pantheistic thing called "the universe". And yes, at one time the first man and woman were perfect creations. Even then however, still very much both physical and spiritual creatures.
The physical is just as REAL and TRUE REALITY as the spiritual.
You cannot divide a person up. Humans ARE spirit, soul and body. The real you is ALL OF YOU:the physical and spiritual aspects of your nature as a human being. That's what makes you a human being(a creature) in the image of God.
For you to physically experience a cold is for YOU AS A WHOLE PERSON to be fully conscious of experiencing that cold;that truth;that fact;that reality. The cold exists and YOU would be in need of healing.
If you were today however(according to Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science) a perfect creation, as was described, then you would have never gotten a cold in the first place. I say that because now we are getting into the question of WHY people get sick and WHY people die? That has to do with a subject called The Fall of Man;original sin. Being IN ADAM.
Mankind never experienced sickness and death until after sin entered the equation.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin;and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.Romans 5:12
These are Biblical FACTS,TRUTH,REALITIES.
The human condition.
The same Bible provides the answers. Faith in a personal Savior. Forgiveness. Redemption by a Redeemer. Cleansing of sin in and through the death and shed blood of Jesus Christ. His resurrection provides the hope of our own. The truth of how to be, by grace through faith, spiritually born from death to life. To be positioned and found IN CHRIST because of the Father's very personal love for us.

But then Mary Baker Eddy did not believe that SIN and DEATH exist either. In fact, she did not believe in the existence of the personal God of the Bible, even though she cloaked her doctrines in Biblical sounding terminology. She actually reduced God to an abstract pantheistic concept. God was mere principle. The ALL, the MIND, the UNIVERSAL IDEA,LOVE(now while I John 4 states that God is love, this in no way was meant to imply that God was not a personal God, a personality;personal being- because the context indicates God demonstrating his love to mankind by sending the Son. John's message is knowing and fellowshiping with the Father and the Son)
In conclusion, Christian Science is neither Christian nor Science.
Mary Baker Eddy's(Mother's) own tombstone is a refutation of her flights of mental fancy...she died in 1910 at the age of 89 from pneumonia. She consulted physicians throughout her life, frequently used the drug morphine to alleviate ailments/pain, and wore glasses. But of course, according to her doctrines these things aren't the TRUTH. Arent' REAL.
THE TRUTH is she was an ignorant, Biblically untrained, eccentric, emotionally unstable, irrational woman. A woman who became paranoid and accused others of attacking her with "malicious animal magnetism". In the Second and Third Editions of Science and Health she even demanded that the courts recognize crimes committed by malicious animal magnetism(MAM).
I guess my opposition and "negativity" would fall under such alleged crimes.

mistermcgee said:

I still don't believe that Time exists. Logic defies the
idea of Time/God/Darkness. Why does everything have to be
boxed in for people? Is it that scary to consider yourself
the only one responsible and condemnable for your actions?
Time does "exist", simply because people believe in it and
live by it, meticulously. It is a trick, a mindset, and it
seems to work wonders in today's day and age.

Fcos people's actions are gonna be contradictory to their
statements when they say they don't believe in time. For,
even if I choose to not believe in Time, I cannot escape
from the fact that 99% of the world works like clockwork
and for everything a time and a place mentality.

The only way to truely step outside of that would be to
have been born 20.000 years ago or to shoot yourself in
the face.

Fcos, I realise that a lot of moments have passed since
the creation of the earth or even since my own birth and
yes, there is a progression to the whole thing. But it's
not simply this "Time" idea we've been imprinted with.

Anyway, it's not a bad thing at all. In fact it is a fcking
great achievement of man to make the whole world work like
a well oiled machine, all tuned to the ticking of the clock.

You can still live it, but not have your heart in it.

nevermindIcan'tevenunderstandmyselfanymorenowedit
[This message was edited Sat Mar 29 9:07:39 PST 2003 by IstenSzek]

rdhull said:

On the real though, different cultures place different priorities on time.

Time is a construct of man. Notice man is the only creature that pays any attention 2 it. It's just an illusion people believe in 2 help them separate things in2 measurable quantities. (Man is always trying 2 separate everything and everyone, this is the problem at its root.) All that ever xisted is NOW. It's always now. It's the present.. this is ur gift.

'Prince doesnt believe in time Yes he does he told me to be on time, if I'm late he's leaving!

Hi mistermcgee and IstenSzek, thanks for posting some more on this thread cuz I'm having fun with this topic. But I'm way too sleepy tonite to read and understand so I"m gonna read it another time. But just wanted to say thanks cuz it's interesting to me!
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