OldFriends4Sale said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I get the same impression after listening to that audio interview with Mick Boskamp again (in Amsterdam, 1981), Prince says that he used to hang out with a lof of free-minded people when he was younger and that these people wanted to be different in order to get ahead of the ongoing musical competition. Therefore his main original goals were to be different in order to be successful. This suggests that the initial reason for him to look the way he looked at the time (including the ambiguity around his ethnicity), could have also been destined to make him stand out from amongst the black artists, in order to attract the attention, rather than to avoid racism or be more palatable to the white audiences. That mention starts around 7:32. He also mentions his mother being Italian (18:48) (later denied)... When asked about the people that he admires, he says being inspired by speakers more than musicians as they "play better musics" and mentions JF Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr (21:48). And he also states shortly after that, that he doesn't like boundaries and dislikes characterisations or the idea of anything "pure", but prefers combinations and explains how he felt that his exposure to some of the main black artists from the previous generation was not his deliberate choice and how that created some boundaries for him which he didn't like. https://www.mixcloud.com/...rdam-1981/

Yes, and when you look at the people in his band and early protege groups they all seemed to have that out of the box attitude. Jesse Johnson has always stood out different from the time and had a very Prince like expression about himself.

Not to mention how his main frontmen:Morris Day Sheila E Vanity 'looked like him'

I think it was around the Dirty Mind album that he said 'this expression is truly me'

Definately. I mean Prince was a 'pretty man' he knew it and he accentuated he looks style and such to stand out. His height might have had something to do with doing a bit more to stand out too. And his 'female' expression was most likely always there, he probably just couldn't express it while living with 'the Father'

and his mother let him express his masculine sexuality via images
He wasn't scared of or running from racism, he was setting himself apart.

that was a good mixcloud piece. Like a lot of those really early stage Prince songs/interviews

Thank U

You're welcome OldFriends.

It was Prince who said that lol

The Artist: Yeah, just me and a guitar in a room. One song is called "The Truth" and one is called "Don't Play Me." There is a line about ebonics in it but I won't get into that. [both laugh]

Spike Lee: No, let's get into that. What do you think about ebonics? I think it's a plot! And there's black people behind that plot.

The Artist: Comedian Chris Rock said it best: There is language that will get you a job and there is language that won't. Make that choice as an American. This is where you live now.

Don't play me
I use proper English & I'm straight
I'm in the news again for paying dues my friend
And not the type of ganda U prop in my way
Don't play me

AbstractPoetic91 said:

rogifan said:

Who gives a damn about Chris Rock and his idiotic ass? LOL

1Sasha said:

We all know the story of Prince wanting not to be classified as a R+B artist when he signed his first record deal - he wanted to reach more people/cross over. To me, it seemed he dressed as if he was not black or that he wanted to appeal to more groups than just the African-American community. In the past five or so years, with the afro and the tunics, the chains, etc., it seemed he was becoming more African-American. Going back to his roots. I mean no offense to anyone, but his women were usually not black. He had a preference, a type. I never thought, in terms of his appearance, that he was anything but straight. Over the years, no one - okay, not women - cared about the make-up and the lace and the frills. He just had "it" and we all wanted him.

Actually Prince was very in awe of Muslim culture

Those styles your are talking about come from Arabic culture

Prince's style ranged from 1600s/1700s(?) New Wave Buccaneers/Pirots, Jesters, 1940/50s glamour and Apocalyptic(Mad Max) styles and a few other things

Yes most of his women were mixed or latina

Prince was big into the Twin the Gemini and mostly women who somehow reflected him

Prince definately was a culture.

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, and when you look at the people in his band and early protege groups they all seemed to have that out of the box attitude. Jesse Johnson has always stood out different from the time and had a very Prince like expression about himself.

Not to mention how his main frontmen:Morris Day Sheila E Vanity 'looked like him'

I think it was around the Dirty Mind album that he said 'this expression is truly me'

Definately. I mean Prince was a 'pretty man' he knew it and he accentuated he looks style and such to stand out. His height might have had something to do with doing a bit more to stand out too. And his 'female' expression was most likely always there, he probably just couldn't express it while living with 'the Father'

and his mother let him express his masculine sexuality via images
He wasn't scared of or running from racism, he was setting himself apart.

that was a good mixcloud piece. Like a lot of those really early stage Prince songs/interviews

Thank U

You're welcome OldFriends.

Hopefull soon we will hear more stuff from this period. One of my favorite songs to listen to that helps me feel Prince is Leaving 4 New York and When We're Dancing Close & Slow(the music)

babynoz said:

1725topp said:

As an African American, Prince ran the gamut--individually and culturally--of what it means to be an African American. In America, sadly, it is still more difficult for African Americans to be seen as multidimensional beings, even though--historically, culturally, ideologically, genetically--African Americans are as multidimensional as any group in America. As such, to be deemed as black or African American is too be deemed as part of a monolith, limiting one's human dimensionality and economic opportunities. Thus, Prince, understanding this, early, did what many African Americans have done to survive and thrive since the time of American slavery, which is to mold or present oneself as something that can be more palatable to the white masses/power structure, especially since it was his desire to play all the music of his heritage, and, by 1978, rock music had been completely coopted by the white mainstream. As Little Ricard has said on many occasions, "R&B never meant 'rhythm and blues,' it meant 'real black' because they [the white power structure of American music] needed to create a category for me so that Elvis Presley and Pat Boone would have a category [rock-n-roll] all to themselves." So, Prince lied about his race to make sure that he would not be limited because of it. One can call it self-hatred, or one can call it self-preservation.

*

What's funny is that Prince, himself, couldn't even keep the lie straight because in a January 1980 article he states that one of his parents is black and other is mixed, in a February 1980 article the previously mixed parent is black and the previously black parent is mixed, and by March 1980 both parents are mixed. What's worse is that no journalist interviewing him at that time bothered to do their research and have him clarify this. Yet, as times and lives change, Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans. I mean, how dare an African American man born in 1958 address issues specific to the community in which he was raised? Didn't he know that it was his responsibility to maintain the lie of his mixed heritage so as to continue to appease the fantasy of many of his fans of him being a "special Negro" or an exotic "other" through which others could live vicariously?

*

Anywho, Prince's narrative arc from multicultural utopia to an understanding that no multicultural utopia can exist without African Americans becoming more self-determining is a pretty normal/natural narrative arc for many African Americans. It seems that, like Prince, many African Americans have a "come to Jesus" moment when they realize that fighting for a multicultural utopia may not be the best course of action. Even W. E. B. DuBois and Martin L. King, Jr.,--two of the greatest fighters for integration--both had their "come to Jesus" moment and realized that self-determinism and not mindless or blind integration would be the best answer for African Americans. King stated that he "may have integrated his people into a burning house," and DuBois, in his seminal essay, "Does the Negro Need Integrated Schools," stated that [African-American] children need schools that are well-funded and administered by people who love them, not schools administered by whites who doubt their intellect. Not long after the publication of this article, DuBois renounced his American citizenship and moved to Africa. Prince didn't renounce his citizenship; he just released The Rainbow Children, which pretty much pissed off folks in the same manner, even though he had been moving in this direction for about five years or so.

*

Therefore, Prince's narrative arc of racial awareness/identity is not atypical or unusual of African Americans; it's pretty typical of African Americans who have and continue to struggle to find place and space in American hell.

Perfectly stated.

This sick need by some to pass Prince off as some exotical is becoming quite bizarre. The pathological need to compulsively project elements of their own identity onto Prince even to the point of cherry-picking quotes while completely ignoring others is baffling. Prince has a similar background/experience of most black folk in America. The obsessive resistance to that is bafflilng.


Too bad we cant post the video of Prince's acceptance speech at the Naacp awards in '97, but, FF to 2:45 where he says to Stevie Wonder on national Television "I can't tell you what it did for me as a black person."

You should probably save that video for the next round of the "I need Prince to be a clone of me" game.

*

As usual, all I can do is Amen, and add that often those who want to make Prince a "special" or "non" Negro are those who view African Americans as flat, one-dimensional beings whose culture could not have possibly produced someone as gifted as Prince. That's why they are so "shocked" whenever they are forced to face the fact that Prince was...wait for it...bbbbbllllllaaaaaccccckkkkk.

gandorb said:

1725topp said:

As an African American, Prince ran the gamut--individually and culturally--of what it means to be an African American. In America, sadly, it is still more difficult for African Americans to be seen as multidimensional beings, even though--historically, culturally, ideologically, genetically--African Americans are as multidimensional as any group in America. As such, to be deemed as black or African American is too be deemed as part of a monolith, limiting one's human dimensionality and economic opportunities. Thus, Prince, understanding this, early, did what many African Americans have done to survive and thrive since the time of American slavery, which is to mold or present oneself as something that can be more palatable to the white masses/power structure, especially since it was his desire to play all the music of his heritage, and, by 1978, rock music had been completely coopted by the white mainstream. As Little Ricard has said on many occasions, "R&B never meant 'rhythm and blues,' it meant 'real black' because they [the white power structure of American music] needed to create a category for me so that Elvis Presley and Pat Boone would have a category [rock-n-roll] all to themselves." So, Prince lied about his race to make sure that he would not be limited because of it. One can call it self-hatred, or one can call it self-preservation.

*

What's funny is that Prince, himself, couldn't even keep the lie straight because in a January 1980 article he states that one of his parents is black and other is mixed, in a February 1980 article the previously mixed parent is black and the previously black parent is mixed, and by March 1980 both parents are mixed. What's worse is that no journalist interviewing him at that time bothered to do their research and have him clarify this. Yet, as times and lives change, Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans. I mean, how dare an African American man born in 1958 address issues specific to the community in which he was raised? Didn't he know that it was his responsibility to maintain the lie of his mixed heritage so as to continue to appease the fantasy of many of his fans of him being a "special Negro" or an exotic "other" through which others could live vicariously?

*

Anywho, Prince's narrative arc from multicultural utopia to an understanding that no multicultural utopia can exist without African Americans becoming more self-determining is a pretty normal/natural narrative arc for many African Americans. It seems that, like Prince, many African Americans have a "come to Jesus" moment when they realize that fighting for a multicultural utopia may not be the best course of action. Even W. E. B. DuBois and Martin L. King, Jr.,--two of the greatest fighters for integration--both had their "come to Jesus" moment and realized that self-determinism and not mindless or blind integration would be the best answer for African Americans. King stated that he "may have integrated his people into a burning house," and DuBois, in his seminal essay, "Does the Negro Need Integrated Schools," stated that [African-American] children need schools that are well-funded and administered by people who love them, not schools administered by whites who doubt their intellect. Not long after the publication of this article, DuBois renounced his American citizenship and moved to Africa. Prince didn't renounce his citizenship; he just released The Rainbow Children, which pretty much pissed off folks in the same manner, even though he had been moving in this direction for about five years or so.

*

Therefore, Prince's narrative arc of racial awareness/identity is not atypical or unusual of African Americans; it's pretty typical of African Americans who have and continue to struggle to find place and space in American hell.

I appreciate your comment so much. It is extremely difficult these days (and perhaps forever) to bring up race in a mixed audience without it becoming polarizing. Your comment manages to stick to the facts and even better yet shed a clear light on Prince's evolution on this issue without pathologizing him.

*

Thanks.

3rdeyedude said:

rogifan said:

2olskool4u said: I know I shouldn't respond to this but oh well....would that be the same America that elected a black man President for two terms?

Let's face it. In America there are those that can never forgive the ignorant past we all share. They still see things only in terms of black and white. They hold grudges. Prince would never have gotten anywhere with that sort of attitude in life. That is why Prince became Prince. And that is why internet trolls are internet trolls. Let's take this thread, for example. Nobody is debating anything but yet you have people acting like they are in the middle of a heated discussion. Nobody would take them seriously in public, so the internet gives them a place to SHOUT. Ever see the people on youtube in the comments section? You have the same people in here. Don't worry though. They don't represent the rest of America. The sad part is that Prince is not here anymore. So they can say whatever they want about him now. And they do.

I like this piece that was posted here

He asked Van Jones why that was. Jones reflexively said its racism. Prince corrected him and said no, it's because the black community isn't producing enough Mark Zuckerbergs.

Genesia said:

rogifan said:

OldFriends4Sale said: I think Prince would've been a great teacher. His success was mostly due to hard work. He didn't come from a rich family or have some fluke hit single somebody else wrote for him that made him a lot of money. That's what needs to be taught to youth - a good work ethic and don't expect anything to be handed to you.

You can't say that, though. Poor snowflakes might get their feelings hurt.

lol the poor snowflakes. U mean we aren't all winners and we all don't get a trophy? lol

rogifan said:

3rdeyedude said:

Let's face it. In America there are those that can never forgive the ignorant past we all share. They still see things only in terms of black and white. They hold grudges. Prince would never have gotten anywhere with that sort of attitude in life. That is why Prince became Prince. And that is why internet trolls are internet trolls. Let's take this thread, for example. Nobody is debating anything but yet you have people acting like they are in the middle of a heated discussion. Nobody would take them seriously in public, so the internet gives them a place to SHOUT. Ever see the people on youtube in the comments section? You have the same people in here. Don't worry though. They don't represent the rest of America. The sad part is that Prince is not here anymore. So they can say whatever they want about him now. And they do.

This reminds me of a Van Jones anecdote. Prince made the comment that someone sees a black kid in a hoodie and thinks they're a thug; they see a white kid in a hoodie and think they're the next Mark Zuckerberg. He asked Van Jones why that was. Jones reflexively said its racism. Prince corrected him and said no, it's because the black community isn't producing enough Mark Zuckerbergs. And then he got involved with Yes We Code to help black kids learn how to code and build apps. That's what I love about Prince. He was about solutions not just complaining about injustice and expecting someone else to do something about it.

Yeah, me too. And speaking of solutions, 2O Baltimore City kids are working at summer jobs right now because of the money he raised with his Peace Rally concert last year.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It was Prince who said that lol

The Artist: Yeah, just me and a guitar in a room. One song is called "The Truth" and one is called "Don't Play Me." There is a line about ebonics in it but I won't get into that. [both laugh]

Spike Lee: No, let's get into that. What do you think about ebonics? I think it's a plot! And there's black people behind that plot.

The Artist: Comedian Chris Rock said it best: There is language that will get you a job and there is language that won't. Make that choice as an American. This is where you live now.

Don't play me
I use proper English & I'm straight
I'm in the news again for paying dues my friend
And not the type of ganda U prop in my way
Don't play me

AbstractPoetic91 said:

I figured your thirsty ass would respond LOL

AbstractPoetic91 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It was Prince who said that lol

The Artist: Yeah, just me and a guitar in a room. One song is called "The Truth" and one is called "Don't Play Me." There is a line about ebonics in it but I won't get into that. [both laugh]

Spike Lee: No, let's get into that. What do you think about ebonics? I think it's a plot! And there's black people behind that plot.

The Artist: Comedian Chris Rock said it best: There is language that will get you a job and there is language that won't. Make that choice as an American. This is where you live now.

Don't play me
I use proper English & I'm straight
I'm in the news again for paying dues my friend
And not the type of ganda U prop in my way
Don't play me

I figured your thirsty ass would respond LOL

LOL too old to be thirsty ( I just figured out what that meant a few weeks ago, so U know I'm old or just out of touch with the lingo )

Don't play me lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

AbstractPoetic91 said:

I figured your thirsty ass would respond LOL

LOL too old to be thirsty ( I just figured out what that meant a few weeks ago, so U know I'm old or just out of touch with the lingo )

Don't play me lol

Just found out was "stanz"? means too. I think

OldFriends4Sale said:

AbstractPoetic91 said:

I figured your thirsty ass would respond LOL

LOL too old to be thirsty ( I just figured out what that meant a few weeks ago, so U know I'm old or just out of touch with the lingo )

Don't play me lol

You can't resist me...aint you like 43? You old enough to be my dad... but don't matter.

CherryMoon57 said:

I get the same impression after listening to that audio interview with Mick Boskamp again (in Amsterdam, 1981), Prince says that he used to hang out with a lof of free-minded people when he was younger and that these people wanted to be different in order to get ahead of the ongoing musical competition. Therefore his main original goals were to be different in order to be successful. This suggests that the initial reason for him to look the way he looked at the time (including the ambiguity around his ethnicity), could have also been destined to make him stand out from amongst the black artists, in order to attract the attention, rather than to avoid racism or be more palatable to the white audiences. That mention starts around 7:32. He also mentions his mother being Italian (18:48) (later denied)... When asked about the people that he admires, he says being inspired by speakers more than musicians as they "play better musics" and mentions JF Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr (21:48). And he also states shortly after that, that he doesn't like boundaries and dislikes characterisations or the idea of anything "pure", but prefers combinations and explains how he felt that his exposure to some of the main black artists from the previous generation was not his deliberate choice and how that created some boundaries for him which he didn't like. https://www.mixcloud.com/...rdam-1981/

*

Prince also says in that same interview "A lot has to do with society. There are a lot of black musicians who play other types of music, but the doors aren’t open in any field like they are in R&B music. Once society changes you’d probably find a lot of great musicians…Music is pretty boring…in the States. Once society comes out of its bag, then the musicians will too." Based on this quote, it seems that even then Prince understood the limitations or restrictions placed on African Americans, and he was willing to do anything that he could, even lie about his race, not to be limited by the power structure.

1725topp said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I get the same impression after listening to that audio interview with Mick Boskamp again (in Amsterdam, 1981), Prince says that he used to hang out with a lof of free-minded people when he was younger and that these people wanted to be different in order to get ahead of the ongoing musical competition. Therefore his main original goals were to be different in order to be successful. This suggests that the initial reason for him to look the way he looked at the time (including the ambiguity around his ethnicity), could have also been destined to make him stand out from amongst the black artists, in order to attract the attention, rather than to avoid racism or be more palatable to the white audiences. That mention starts around 7:32. He also mentions his mother being Italian (18:48) (later denied)... When asked about the people that he admires, he says being inspired by speakers more than musicians as they "play better musics" and mentions JF Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr (21:48). And he also states shortly after that, that he doesn't like boundaries and dislikes characterisations or the idea of anything "pure", but prefers combinations and explains how he felt that his exposure to some of the main black artists from the previous generation was not his deliberate choice and how that created some boundaries for him which he didn't like. https://www.mixcloud.com/...rdam-1981/

*

Prince also says in that same interview "A lot has to do with society. There are a lot of black musicians who play other types of music, but the doors aren’t open in any field like they are in R&B music. Once society changes you’d probably find a lot of great musicians…Music is pretty boring…in the States. Once society comes out of its bag, then the musicians will too." Based on this quote, it seems that even then Prince understood the limitations or restrictions placed on African Americans, and he was willing to do anything that he could, even lie about his race, not to be limited by the power structure.

I think it could have applied both ways. Say if a white artist had wanted to make it in the R & B field in those days, they would have probably been seen as "not black enough" to do that or at least compared to other black artists more representative of that category of music. I think what Prince meant by society changing - as he himself says in the interview - was referring to the compartmentalization and seperation or the labelling of people and genres in general. Thinking outside the box seems to be one of main focus of this interview.

AbstractPoetic91 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

LOL too old to be thirsty ( I just figured out what that meant a few weeks ago, so U know I'm old or just out of touch with the lingo )

Don't play me lol

You can't resist me...aint you like 43? You old enough to be my dad... but don't matter.

FoD 4D

LOL

CherryMoon57 said:

1725topp said:

*

Prince also says in that same interview "A lot has to do with society. There are a lot of black musicians who play other types of music, but the doors aren’t open in any field like they are in R&B music. Once society changes you’d probably find a lot of great musicians…Music is pretty boring…in the States. Once society comes out of its bag, then the musicians will too." Based on this quote, it seems that even then Prince understood the limitations or restrictions placed on African Americans, and he was willing to do anything that he could, even lie about his race, not to be limited by the power structure.

I think it could have applied both ways. Say if a white artist had wanted to make it in the R & B field in those days, they would have probably been seen as "not black enough" to do that or at least compared to other black artists more representative of that category of music. I think what Prince meant by society changing - as he himself says in the interview - was referring to the compartmentalization and seperation or the labelling of people and genres in general. Thinking outside the box seems to be one of main focus of this interview.

*

I understand and appreciate what you are saying, but history does not support your position about white artists performing R&B. In fact, white acts from Tom Jones to the Righteous Brothers to Joe Cocker to Jon B and even George Michael (considering the fact that he won either the Grammy or the AMA for R&B album of the year) have always been far more accepted by Black Radio and by Black listeners in general than African Americans playing rock have been accepted by white radio and white listeners. That's just the true history of it. Look at even today with Adele and Sam Smith. On the other hand, I know a lot of great black rock bands who can't get played on white rock stations, even today. So, it seems that the restrictions placed on African American artists, even today, are far greater than those that have ever been placed on white artists, even today.

*

Also, I agree that "thinking outside the box" is Prince's main focus in the interview, but you can't deny, based on the quote that I provided, that Prince was conscious of the limitations that African American artists faced during that time. As such, while I can agree that Prince did a lot of what he did just to express his natural unique self, his own words and later actions show that he was also very conscious of and reacting to the limitations that he understood came with being a black man in America. As someone else, I believe BabyNoz, has stated, Prince even went so far as to tell Stevie Wonder how important his work and legacy was to him as a “black person” because Wonder (and Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, Parliament Funkadelic, Sly Stone, and others) was breaking down some of those doors through which Prince wanted to walk

1725topp said:

babynoz said:

Perfectly stated.

This sick need by some to pass Prince off as some exotical is becoming quite bizarre. The pathological need to compulsively project elements of their own identity onto Prince even to the point of cherry-picking quotes while completely ignoring others is baffling. Prince has a similar background/experience of most black folk in America. The obsessive resistance to that is bafflilng.


Too bad we cant post the video of Prince's acceptance speech at the Naacp awards in '97, but, FF to 2:45 where he says to Stevie Wonder on national Television "I can't tell you what it did for me as a black person."

You should probably save that video for the next round of the "I need Prince to be a clone of me" game.

*

As usual, all I can do is Amen, and add that often those who want to make Prince a "special" or "non" Negro are those who view African Americans as flat, one-dimensional beings whose culture could not have possibly produced someone as gifted as Prince. That's why they are so "shocked" whenever they are forced to face the fact that Prince was...wait for it...bbbbbllllllaaaaaccccckkkkk.

And there it is.

For as much as people like to pretend that attitude doesn't exist, longtime members know that it does. It's the point that the author of the article, which everybody is ignoring, is trying to make, not to mention it's the actual topic of the thread.

As the author of the article implies, the mischaracterization is ongoing. A deranged fammy right here on the org even made a thread trying to interject fake family members in Prince's ancestry and blame it on Tyka. The most interesting sentence is found in reply #2.....

"That type of pedigree is impressive if true, so what do you guys think. This is what you get when you have some white blood I guess.

http://prince.org/msg/7/413814?&pg=2

There have been many variations of that attitude expressed here over the years.

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't know. Many people who came to fame prior to Prince and who were also huge at or around the time of his superstardom, didn't do anything less black and they were huge ie Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Lionel Ritchie, Whitney Houston Janet Jackson George Benson Donna Summer Miles Davis Herbie Hancock etc Prince didn't want to be pigeonheld in 1 musical style

.

I think Prince expressed those things for personal reasons.

.

And his fame hit at the right time and era. I don't think it would have happened if he started out late 80s into 90s

I get the same impression after listening to that audio interview with Mick Boskamp again (in Amsterdam, 1981), Prince says that he used to hang out with a lof of free-minded people when he was younger and that these people wanted to be different in order to get ahead of the ongoing musical competition. Therefore his main original goals were to be different in order to be successful. This suggests that the initial reason for him to look the way he looked at the time (including the ambiguity around his ethnicity), could have also been destined to make him stand out from amongst the black artists, in order to attract the attention, rather than to avoid racism or be more palatable to the white audiences. That mention starts around 7:32. He also mentions his mother being Italian (18:48) (later denied)... When asked about the people that he admires, he says being inspired by speakers more than musicians as they "play better musics" and mentions JF Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr (21:48). And he also states shortly after that, that he doesn't like boundaries and dislikes characterisations or the idea of anything "pure", but prefers combinations and explains how he felt that his exposure to some of the main black artists from the previous generation was not his deliberate choice and how that created some boundaries for him which he didn't like. https://www.mixcloud.com/...rdam-1981/

Prince: 'I'm a musician. And I am music'

Dorian Lynskey

Thursday 23 June 2011 15.00 EDT

Rumours circled him because he was such a defiantly outlandish presence: the pop star as inexplicable alien, with a sexuality as ambiguous as it was voracious, and so unsettlingly potent that the censorship lobby PMRC was spurred into existence by a single song, Darling Nikki. Did he work hard to make himself as fascinating as possible? “We were very fascinating,” he says. “In Minnesota it was a clean slate. It was punk rock. There were a lot of fascinating people around.”

babynoz said:

CherryMoon57 said:

morningsong said:

I do understand you. I really do, been living it all my life. But I think if people are going to move forward in acceptance than dividing people based on how they look imho needs to stop. Accepting people as they define themselves need to become normal. Black people as a whole in the Americas especially, have a history of being categorized as not black, mulatto, quadroons, octaroon, macaroons, sambo and the list is endless based on the region one is in.

I guess different people would have different views on the topic. Personnally I find the terms black or white to be inaccurate and more divisive. Nowadays hardly anyone has origins from one single place, even those who think they do. Therefore multiracial is a better term to describe most humans, and it has that inclusive connotation. I understand that others might have a different take on this though depending on their experience and what it means for them.

the whole creation of RACE was divisive. Even under the 'Caucasian' heading Irish were almost near the bottom, Southern Europeans were a little above them. All kinds of stereotypes and 'issues' were applied to the 4-5 'Caucasian' branches. The English/WASP was the highest.

WHITE BLACK RED YELLOW are not biological truths. So there will always be inaccurate information and unbalanced thoughts when dealing with race.

1725topp said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I think it could have applied both ways. Say if a white artist had wanted to make it in the R & B field in those days, they would have probably been seen as "not black enough" to do that or at least compared to other black artists more representative of that category of music. I think what Prince meant by society changing - as he himself says in the interview - was referring to the compartmentalization and seperation or the labelling of people and genres in general. Thinking outside the box seems to be one of main focus of this interview.

*

I understand and appreciate what you are saying, but history does not support your position about white artists performing R&B. In fact, white acts from Tom Jones to the Righteous Brothers to Joe Cocker to Jon B and even George Michael (considering the fact that he won either the Grammy or the AMA for R&B album of the year) have always been far more accepted by Black Radio and by Black listeners in general than African Americans playing rock have been accepted by white radio and white listeners. That's just the true history of it. Look at even today with Adele and Sam Smith. On the other hand, I know a lot of great black rock bands who can't get played on white rock stations, even today. So, it seems that the restrictions placed on African American artists, even today, are far greater than those that have ever been placed on white artists, even today.

*

Also, I agree that "thinking outside the box" is Prince's main focus in the interview, but you can't deny, based on the quote that I provided, that Prince was conscious of the limitations that African American artists faced during that time. As such, while I can agree that Prince did a lot of what he did just to express his natural unique self, his own words and later actions show that he was also very conscious of and reacting to the limitations that he understood came with being a black man in America. As someone else, I believe BabyNoz, has stated, Prince even went so far as to tell Stevie Wonder how important his work and legacy was to him as a “black person” because Wonder (and Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, Parliament Funkadelic, Sly Stone, and others) was breaking down some of those doors through which Prince wanted to walk

I appreciate that things were definitely a lot harder for the black-american population, in terms of opportunities, but I think that the predominence of white artists in the music industry in Europe and America could also reflect the demographic ratio. I am guessing that you would probably find more black celebrities in Africa simply because the majority of people there are black.

On top of that you have of course the fact that the music industry is a very secluded world and that you need to have "connections" whether you are black or white to make it through. It is a fact that it is hard for any artists regarless of their ethnicity, to make it to the top, even if they are very talented.

It would be interesting to look at the actual numbers of existing artists black and white trying to "make it" and see what proportion of them succeed at the end.

NinaB said:

babynoz said:

And there it is.

For as much as people like to pretend that attitude doesn't exist, longtime members know that it does. It's the point that the author of the article, which everybody is ignoring, is trying to make, not to mention it's the actual topic of the thread.

As the author of the article implies, the mischaracterization is ongoing. A deranged fammy right here on the org even made a thread trying to interject fake family members in Prince's ancestry and blame it on Tyka. The most interesting sentence is found in reply #2.....

"That type of pedigree is impressive if true, so what do you guys think. This is what you get when you have some white blood I guess.

http://prince.org/msg/7/413814?&pg=2

There have been many variations of that attitude expressed here over the years.

Yes & Yes. What's the name of that thread? Links not working 4 me.

Yeah, it has to be copy pasted because linking doesn't work on here sometimes. This is the thread title......

"Prince's family tree roots according to a site called Gen i"



That site is like wiki, anybody can post an entry, true or false and they tried to give Prince a false ancestor. Smdh.

babynoz said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I guess different people would have different views on the topic. Personnally I find the terms black or white to be inaccurate and more divisive. Nowadays hardly anyone has origins from one single place, even those who think they do. Therefore multiracial is a better term to describe most humans, and it has that inclusive connotation. I understand that others might have a different take on this though depending on their experience and what it means for them.

the whole creation of RACE was divisive. Even under the 'Caucasian' heading Irish were almost near the bottom, Southern Europeans were a little above them. All kinds of stereotypes and 'issues' were applied to the 4-5 'Caucasian' branches. The English/WASP was the highest.

WHITE BLACK RED YELLOW are not biological truths. So there will always be inaccurate information and unbalanced thoughts when dealing with race.

Sadly the mentality of division seems to be a very human tendency. And that applies to almost every little detail of life: race, country, gender, age, class. Sometimes it is divisions between competiting businesses, but then, in the same business you can also see divisions within. The first floor people sometimes hate those on the 2nd floor and so on, it just never ends. Even on the org I have observed some old vs new orgers division.

Interestingly, you often find people tend to quickly forget some divisions when they rally in order to fight in the name of a newly formed division. This tendency for humans to divide themselves has messed up the whole world in fact. It seems that recognising differences often leads to creating more division/hatred. It probably comes from school, I think the first thing children learn is "sorting" things by shapes and colours. I might be oversimplifying it, but I believe there is some truth in that.

And of course when someone like Prince seems to include many of these differences, physically, musically, culturally and even politically, people are confused because they still really want to seperate him and stick him within a category but they can't. He has shown people that he could be anything he wanted and people felt uncomfortable. At the end of the day, he was just human like the rest of us. At least I think he was (did someone say alien? lol ).

http://archive.is/Ue4bY NINA HERE YA GO.

OldFriends4Sale said:

destinyc1 said:

LBrent said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Only nursev lol I love it
U always give the best replies 2 Prince pictures

Guuuuuuurl. His edges were always laid, well after the hair debacle that was pre-Parade... I'm similar to you and my thick long uncooperative natural Creation left hair is best left up in a high ponytail. Trust. What I always marveled at was how he would rarely look like his edges were sweated out (I hear y'all singin Black Sweat, sit your azzes down. Dam.). My stomach was clenched when he played the Super Bowl in the rain. Ugh But he looked great even after removing the doorag.

LOL

I love what he said here:

Prince misses the days “when I could walk the street without being harassed and bothered”. He remembers the first time he realised he was famous, around 1979. “It happened very fast. I had some old clothes on because I was going to help a friend move house and some girls came by and one went: ‘Ohmigod, Prince!’ And the other girl went,” he pulls a face, “’That ain’t Prince.’ I didn’t come out of the house raggedy after that.”

Does he think the atomisation of pop culture since the 80s allows for another star of his stature? He thinks for a moment. “It would have to be manufactured. Michael [Jackson] and I both came along at a time when there was nothing. MTV didn’t have anyone who was visual. Bowie, maybe. A lot of people made great records, but dressed like they were going to the supermarket.” He thinks flamboyant showmanship is making a comeback but, he adds: “How many people have substance, or are they just putting on crazy clothes?”

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

the whole creation of RACE was divisive. Even under the 'Caucasian' heading Irish were almost near the bottom, Southern Europeans were a little above them. All kinds of stereotypes and 'issues' were applied to the 4-5 'Caucasian' branches. The English/WASP was the highest.

WHITE BLACK RED YELLOW are not biological truths. So there will always be inaccurate information and unbalanced thoughts when dealing with race.

Sadly the mentality of division seems to be a very human tendency. And that applies to almost every little detail of life: race, country, gender, age, class. Sometimes it is divisions between competiting businesses, but then, in the same business you can also see divisions within. The first floor people sometimes hate those on the 2nd floor and so on, it just never ends. Even on the org I have observed some old vs new orgers division.

Interestingly, you often find people tend to quickly forget some divisions when they rally in order to fight in the name of a newly formed division. This tendency for humans to divide themselves has messed up the whole world in fact. It seems that recognising differences often leads to creating more division/hatred. It probably comes from school, I think the first thing children learn is "sorting" things by shapes and colours. I might be oversimplifying it, but I believe there is some truth in that.

And of course when someone like Prince seems to include many of these differences, physically, musically, culturally and even politically, people are confused because they still really want to seperate him and stick him within a category but they can't. He has shown people that he could be anything he wanted and people felt uncomfortable. At the end of the day, he was just human like the rest of us. At least I think he was (did someone say alien? lol ).

I agree, in every avenue of life. In every crack and crevice of life.

If we take his example of breaking out of every box while understanding why people create boxes to restrict us so we don't do the same to others, our world would be so far beyond where we are now.