[Rant bait snip - luv4u]

NinaB said:

Thanks

I have it on my work computer, bookmarks upon bookmarks I have too many.
I believe it was a Guardian Interview somewhere between 2010-2011

I post it as soon as i get it tomorrow

OldFriends4Sale said:

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

Prince's self awareness and identity was strongly expressed through women and the women he dated.

*I found it a curious thing that from the sisters that made the 3rd eye shades, to artists, to Andy, Marissa Jack, Eryn Allen Kane, Maya Washington, Lianne La Havas, Judith Hill, etc around the AOA period the majority of them were 1 Female 2 Young 3 Amalgamé of the Human Race

He's said a lot of interesting things about the bringing together of his female self with his male self that I'm reading through now.

this is interesting...what are you saying when you opine that Prince's identity was expressed through women he dated?

BlackandRising said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince's self awareness and identity was strongly expressed through women and the women he dated.

*I found it a curious thing that from the sisters that made the 3rd eye shades, to artists, to Andy, Marissa Jack, Eryn Allen Kane, Maya Washington, Lianne La Havas, Judith Hill, etc around the AOA period the majority of them were 1 Female 2 Young 3 Amalgamé of the Human Race

He's said a lot of interesting things about the bringing together of his female self with his male self that I'm reading through now.

this is interesting...what are you saying when you opine that Prince's identity was expressed through women he dated?

A whole lot of stuff.. a lot of stuff. I think that should be it's own discussion. I'm remember some things he said about the symbol and the merging of the female with his male part etc

.

1 of the things I saw for a long time was how he was able to sing a song(one that might have been written for a woman) or not and sing it from a female perspective yet as a man. Do Me Baby always felt like a woman singing to a man.

nursev said:

jumanji2016 said:

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

To be technical, even Nona was 'mixed'. Her mom, Janis Hunter, was a bit racially ambiguous (I know that her dad was black). Nona was just darker-skinned. Her parents:[img:$uid]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/15/29BE348300000578-3129795-image-m-2_1434637642702.jpg[/img:$uid] Prince also dated Ananda Lewis and Chilli from TLC who happen to be darker skinned 'mixed' women as well. Just a big ole melting pot.

Nona's mother was (biracial). Always thought Prince was trying to get some Marvin vibes from Nona. Nona was beautiful during the Matrix years for sure.

Yes Ananda Lewis Chili Susan Moonsie(who still looks very good)

nursev said:

EnDoRpHn said:

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

Did you really just call Jill Jones a "waitress lady"?

not Jill the other lady the lady that passed recently

morningsong said:

Those that don't know he's black by now have their own personal issues they need to work out.

Those that this even matters to must have personal issues they need to work out too. Prince is one of the greatest and most innovative artist of all time. Whoever listens to his music and thinks about his race has pesronal issues.

1725topp said:

As an African American, Prince ran the gamut--individually and culturally--of what it means to be an African American. In America, sadly, it is still more difficult for African Americans to be seen as multidimensional beings, even though--historically, culturally, ideologically, genetically--African Americans are as multidimensional as any group in America. As such, to be deemed as black or African American is too be deemed as part of a monolith, limiting one's human dimensionality and economic opportunities. Thus, Prince, understanding this, early, did what many African Americans have done to survive and thrive since the time of American slavery, which is to mold or present oneself as something that can be more palatable to the white masses/power structure, especially since it was his desire to play all the music of his heritage, and, by 1978, rock music had been completely coopted by the white mainstream. As Little Ricard has said on many occasions, "R&B never meant 'rhythm and blues,' it meant 'real black' because they [the white power structure of American music] needed to create a category for me so that Elvis Presley and Pat Boone would have a category [rock-n-roll] all to themselves." So, Prince lied about his race to make sure that he would not be limited because of it. One can call it self-hatred, or one can call it self-preservation.

*

What's funny is that Prince, himself, couldn't even keep the lie straight because in a January 1980 article he states that one of his parents is black and other is mixed, in a February 1980 article the previously mixed parent is black and the previously black parent is mixed, and by March 1980 both parents are mixed. What's worse is that no journalist interviewing him at that time bothered to do their research and have him clarify this. Yet, as times and lives change, Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans. I mean, how dare an African American man born in 1958 address issues specific to the community in which he was raised? Didn't he know that it was his responsibility to maintain the lie of his mixed heritage so as to continue to appease the fantasy of many of his fans of him being a "special Negro" or an exotic "other" through which others could live vicariously?

*

Anywho, Prince's narrative arc from multicultural utopia to an understanding that no multicultural utopia can exist without African Americans becoming more self-determining is a pretty normal/natural narrative arc for many African Americans. It seems that, like Prince, many African Americans have a "come to Jesus" moment when they realize that fighting for a multicultural utopia may not be the best course of action. Even W. E. B. DuBois and Martin L. King, Jr.,--two of the greatest fighters for integration--both had their "come to Jesus" moment and realized that self-determinism and not mindless or blind integration would be the best answer for African Americans. King stated that he "may have integrated his people into a burning house," and DuBois, in his seminal essay, "Does the Negro Need Integrated Schools," stated that [African-American] children need schools that are well-funded and administered by people who love them, not schools administered by whites who doubt their intellect. Not long after the publication of this article, DuBois renounced his American citizenship and moved to Africa. Prince didn't renounce his citizenship; he just released The Rainbow Children, which pretty much pissed off folks in the same manner, even though he had been moving in this direction for about five years or so.

*

Therefore, Prince's narrative arc of racial awareness/identity is not atypical or unusual of African Americans; it's pretty typical of African Americans who have and continue to struggle to find place and space in American hell.

"Oh Yeasss!" as Morris Day would say I concur, and I especially like your point about how Prince's racial awareness "narrative arc" (& "Come to Jesus" moments) are typical of African Americans struggle in America, I would go further and say it IS the climax of "Blackness" in White Space.

Prince would love that we are having this conversation. Yes he was Black but he was one of us. What I mean by that is everyone could relate to him in some way or another. That made him uniquely able to reach across color lines and not offend, but thrive. Personally, I related to him because I was a Black girl living in a predominantly white community, doing my best to fit in. I grew up with rock and roll, blues and funk. It can really be a challenge to have a foot in both worlds. Prince was my example of how to do that and survive and come out knowing exactly who you are, a Black person living in a white world and knowing that Black is Beautiful. Thank you Prince. I truely adore you.

[Edited 7/26/16 4:23am]

nursev said:

EnDoRpHn said:

nursev said: Did you really just call Jill Jones a "waitress lady"?

not Jill the other lady the lady that passed recently

KIM UPSHER(RIP)

For some reason I thought she passed earlier in 2015

http://prince.org/msg/7/420491

WOW I just realized she passed away Decemeber 2015, Vanity February 2016, Prince April 2016 all 1 months apart

hezekinap said:

1725topp said:

As an African American, Prince ran the gamut--individually and culturally--of what it means to be an African American. In America, sadly, it is still more difficult for African Americans to be seen as multidimensional beings, even though--historically, culturally, ideologically, genetically--African Americans are as multidimensional as any group in America. As such, to be deemed as black or African American is too be deemed as part of a monolith, limiting one's human dimensionality and economic opportunities. Thus, Prince, understanding this, early, did what many African Americans have done to survive and thrive since the time of American slavery, which is to mold or present oneself as something that can be more palatable to the white masses/power structure, especially since it was his desire to play all the music of his heritage, and, by 1978, rock music had been completely coopted by the white mainstream. As Little Ricard has said on many occasions, "R&B never meant 'rhythm and blues,' it meant 'real black' because they [the white power structure of American music] needed to create a category for me so that Elvis Presley and Pat Boone would have a category [rock-n-roll] all to themselves." So, Prince lied about his race to make sure that he would not be limited because of it. One can call it self-hatred, or one can call it self-preservation.

*

What's funny is that Prince, himself, couldn't even keep the lie straight because in a January 1980 article he states that one of his parents is black and other is mixed, in a February 1980 article the previously mixed parent is black and the previously black parent is mixed, and by March 1980 both parents are mixed. What's worse is that no journalist interviewing him at that time bothered to do their research and have him clarify this. Yet, as times and lives change, Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans. I mean, how dare an African American man born in 1958 address issues specific to the community in which he was raised? Didn't he know that it was his responsibility to maintain the lie of his mixed heritage so as to continue to appease the fantasy of many of his fans of him being a "special Negro" or an exotic "other" through which others could live vicariously?

*

Anywho, Prince's narrative arc from multicultural utopia to an understanding that no multicultural utopia can exist without African Americans becoming more self-determining is a pretty normal/natural narrative arc for many African Americans. It seems that, like Prince, many African Americans have a "come to Jesus" moment when they realize that fighting for a multicultural utopia may not be the best course of action. Even W. E. B. DuBois and Martin L. King, Jr.,--two of the greatest fighters for integration--both had their "come to Jesus" moment and realized that self-determinism and not mindless or blind integration would be the best answer for African Americans. King stated that he "may have integrated his people into a burning house," and DuBois, in his seminal essay, "Does the Negro Need Integrated Schools," stated that [African-American] children need schools that are well-funded and administered by people who love them, not schools administered by whites who doubt their intellect. Not long after the publication of this article, DuBois renounced his American citizenship and moved to Africa. Prince didn't renounce his citizenship; he just released The Rainbow Children, which pretty much pissed off folks in the same manner, even though he had been moving in this direction for about five years or so.

*

Therefore, Prince's narrative arc of racial awareness/identity is not atypical or unusual of African Americans; it's pretty typical of African Americans who have and continue to struggle to find place and space in American hell.

"Oh Yeasss!" as Morris Day would say I concur, and I especially like your point about how Prince's racial awareness "narrative arc" (& "Come to Jesus" moments) are typical of African Americans struggle in America, I would go further and say it IS the climax of "Blackness" in White Space.

Are there many African-Americans living in Austria?

This is certainly an interesting debate that shouldn't be ignored as it relates to a lot more than just race. It seems to me that the eagerness to not acknowledge some of the caucasian origin in black people and the trend to "remove the white from the black", by just identifying as black, stems from a strong desire to “erase” that awful past the american-black people endured and to go back to the beginning.

For most, bi-racial remains a haunting testimony of how the course of their history was changed against their will. This historical stigma still hurts and calling all bi-racial people black is one way for bi-racial people to take destiny back into their own hands and reclaim what was stolen from them, which is their “true” origin at the start. A very understandable initiative that explains why Prince would have done the same as he started to get into the deeper meaning of life, starting by detaching himself from WB to take his career back into his own hands, and to gradually go back to the beginning (hence his final looks being the same as his looks at the start of his career, ie before the predominently white music industry had changed him to emphasize his white origins). Yet Prince identifying as black and loving his “blackness”, does not make his “whiteness” (to use a similar terminology to that used in the article) less real/possible.

For me this is more about understanding people - and Prince of course - and how their ancestral history - whether they accept it or not - still affects how they view themselves, society and their relationship with others.

jumanji2016 said:

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

To be technical, even Nona was 'mixed'. Her mom, Janis Hunter, was a bit racially ambiguous (I know that her dad was black). Nona was just darker-skinned. Her parents:[img:$uid]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/15/29BE348300000578-3129795-image-m-2_1434637642702.jpg[/img:$uid] Prince also dated Ananda Lewis and Chilli from TLC who happen to be darker skinned 'mixed' women as well. Just a big ole melting pot.

She isn't bi racial but,someone bi racial may be playing her in the bio 'marvin'

destinyc1 said:

[Rant bait snip - luv4u]

SNIP -check your orgnotes -OF4S

CherryMoon57 said:

This is certainly an interesting debate that shouldn't be ignored as it relates to a lot more than just race. It seems to me that the eagerness to not acknowledge some of the caucasian origin in black people and the trend to "remove the white from the black", by just identifying as black, stems from a strong desire to “erase” that awful past the american-black people endured and to go back to the beginning.

For most, bi-racial remains a haunting testimony of how the course of their history was changed against their will. This historical stigma still hurts and calling all bi-racial people black is one way for bi-racial people to take destiny back into their own hands and reclaim what was stolen from them, which is their “true” origin at the start. A very understandable initiative that explains why Prince would have done the same as he started to get into the deeper meaning of life, starting by detaching himself from WB to take his career back into his own hands, and to gradually go back to the beginning (hence his final looks being the same as his looks at the start of his career, ie before the predominently white music industry had changed him to emphasize his white origins). Yet Prince identifying as black and loving his “blackness”, does not make his “whiteness” (to use a similar terminology to that used in the article) less real/possible.

For me this is more about understanding people - and Prince of course - and how their ancestral history - whether they accept it or not - still affects how they view themselves, society and their relationship with others.

Appreciate comments like this and 227stopp that are thoughtful and promote keeping an open discussion about the issue rather than posts that are so emotionaly fueled. The latter, while completely understandable, tends to get people on all sides more defensive and less open to hearing different perspectives. Thanks Cherrymoon.

1725topp said:

as prince got older, he knew people were unsure of his race, and so he told us, point blank, he was black and loved it. but i did read a story, about his first major label record deal. it said as a very young man he was allowed to create his entire album himself which unheard of. the article said when he met the public relation people for the label the first time, he was working, he did not look up, he did not speak, or intruduce himself. after a few minutes, the only thing he said was "don't make me black". not because he did not want to be black, because even at that super young age he was an astute business man and knew the ambiguity in regards to everything about him would work to his benifit and he was right

2olskool4u said:

The sad thing is he couldn't start out as being openly 'black' and be successful commercially, because America was, and still is, full of racist, ignorant, fucks

I don't know. Many people who came to fame prior to Prince and who were also huge at or around the time of his superstardom, didn't do anything less black and they were huge ie Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Lionel Ritchie, Whitney Houston Janet Jackson George Benson Donna Summer Miles Davis Herbie Hancock etc Prince didn't want to be pigeonheld in 1 musical style

.

I think Prince expressed those things for personal reasons.

.

And his fame hit at the right time and era. I don't think it would have happened if he started out late 80s into 90s

"Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans."http://prince.org/msg/reply.php?tid=429857&sc=8a0d3&pg=5

If it did piss them off they are fools. The guy grew up in that community and it should have been closest to his heart. I can see why he supported BLM for instance. I think black males in cities are targeted by police more than other groups in the UK - but the UK police don't normally carry guns and kill them. I don't know much about BLM but it seems cool:

"Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes. It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within some Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, Black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement."

I can see why P didn't want to be restricted to R & B in his youth and so played on the biracial thing. He was willing to do and say things that might give him a slight edge to get what he wanted (e.g. when he was told to knock a couple of years off his age). P and his team were trying whatever they could to get him noticed by the right people. He looked like he was mixed genetically so no wonder no-one questioned it. On For You and Prince he certainlly looked black. Less so from Dirty Mind until recently. Culturally I thought growing up in a tight knit black community to 2 parents that identified as black that he would identify as black - but then I read about the segregation into black, biracial and white that was going on at his school and Tyka's experience so it might not always have been as clear cut as that for P. I guess he never did fit into neat boxes.

.

It is sad that it still matters so much in 2016. We have not moved on far enough from the 60's. Watching the news reports from the US I can see why it does matter to people. I wish the communities could build only bridges and not barriers. In P's words "Take care of each other alright. It don't matter the colour, we are all family."

destinyc1 said:

destinyc1 said:

[Rant bait snip - luv4u]

SNIP -check your orgnotes -OF4S

Got it thank you.

2olskool4u said:

rogifan said:

EnDoRpHn said:

rogifan said:

I know I shouldn't respond to this but oh well....would that be the same America that elected a black man President for two terms?

The first time I heard someone saying that Prince was "dying of AIDS" was the summer of 1983. That was not only an anti-LGBT trope (what wasn't back then?), it was also an avowedly racist comment by the person who made it (you don't want me to repeat what else they said). Flash forward to April 2016: what's one of the first theories I hear about Prince's death? I think it was Nelson George who wrote (back around 1986) that white America/MTV only ever accepted Prince and Michael Jackson because they were sexually-charged black men who could be emasculated as effete. Does anyone think that race had nothing to do with the re-surfacing of that vicious rumor? [Edited 7/26/16 6:54am]

I don't think race had one thing to do with the AIDS speculation. The publication that put out the blind item that a high profile black celebrity had AIDS also put out a blind item about an A-list Hollywood star was HIV positive which we now know was Charlie Sheen.

rogifan said:

2olskool4u said:

The sad thing is he couldn't start out as being openly 'black' and be successful commercially, because America was, and still is, full of racist, ignorant, fucks

I know I shouldn't respond to this but oh well....would that be the same America that elected a black man President for two terms?

Let's face it. In America there are those that can never forgive the ignorant past we all share. They still see things only in terms of black and white. They hold grudges. Prince would never have gotten anywhere with that sort of attitude in life. That is why Prince became Prince. And that is why internet trolls are internet trolls. Let's take this thread, for example. Nobody is debating anything but yet you have people acting like they are in the middle of a heated discussion. Nobody would take them seriously in public, so the internet gives them a place to SHOUT. Ever see the people on youtube in the comments section? You have the same people in here. Don't worry though. They don't represent the rest of America. The sad part is that Prince is not here anymore. So they can say whatever they want about him now. And they do.

EnDoRpHn said:

rogifan said:

I know I shouldn't respond to this but oh well....would that be the same America that elected a black man President for two terms?

The first time I heard someone saying that Prince was "dying of AIDS" was the summer of 1983. That was not only an anti-LGBT trope (what wasn't back then?), it was also an avowedly racist comment by the person who made it (you don't want me to repeat what else they said). Flash forward to April 2016: what's one of the first theories I hear about Prince's death? I think it was Nelson George who wrote (back around 1986) that white America/MTV only ever accepted Prince and Michael Jackson because they were sexually-charged black men who could be emasculated as effete. Does anyone think that race had nothing to do with the re-surfacing of that vicious rumor? [Edited 7/26/16 6:54am]

'white' America accepted Michael Jackson way before MTV and he was a cute little American kid of of very obvious African ancestry. I never thought of Michael Jackson as sexually charged. Michael was always sorta the opposite of Prince. I never heard of Michael Jackson as being sexually charged anything. People were shocked when Michael would try to incorporate things like grabbing his crotch and such much later.

And I doubt that is why Prince was accepted either. And so what lol most male rock stars were sexually charged. And most of them were wearing boas, lace and leather, make up, long hair and were semi effem as well.

The gay rumors were heavy among African-Americans toward Prince (not Michael Jackson)
so if race had something to do with it, it came from that direction.

Also when it comes to 'Rock Stars' in general and AIDS, it is because of all the 'alleged' sexual excess "Sex Drugs RocknRoll" that they supposedly partake in.

Tony M, while in his band, saying to others he didn't think Prince 'was black enough' and how he was going to shove blackness down that _ throat'

Remember this guy? @ the Purple Rain premiere preaching 2 Prince cause he was a sinner

Remember this guy? @ the Purple Rain premiere preaching 2 Prince cause he was a sinner