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Thread started 07/17/16 1:42pm

IamBryan

i believe the Symbol album's singles KILLED Prince's career commerically!

That is very lopsided album, hard to imagine that was recorded in the D&P time, there was no way that album was going to be a successful... the singles released for it with the exception of "7" (which should of been the 1st single released instead Sexy MF) ... he should of listed to WB on that one suggestion. Every single after that was just dreadful... My name is Prince is about as enjoyable as passing a kidney stone...Morning Papers? ummm...yeah. Damn U was a perfect fit for R&B charts. Tony M contributions were heavy on this album...i wish there was away to edit him out like they did Rosie.

In the early 90s before You Tube, internet, I Tunes...you had radio and MTV... If those songs sucked...no one was running out to buy that album... prince was DOA...

[Edited 7/17/16 13:42pm]

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Reply #1 posted 07/17/16 1:47pm

luv4u

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omg I like the entire album

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Reply #2 posted 07/17/16 2:00pm

TrivialPursuit

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You might be a bit hard of hearing. wink

"The Morning Papers" is a wonderful song, as is the first half of "Love 2 The 9s". "Damn U" should have been a bigger single, as should something like "Sweet Baby", or "And God Created Woman".

By the way, there is a Tony M. free (99%) version of Diamonds & Pearls and prince that someone did, and it gives new life to the set of songs. You realize that many of the songs should have never had a rap on them; that they were afterthoughts, tagged onto an otherwise great song for the sake of being trendy. (Beware, there's another version of prince where the person just edited out those sections of the song that Tony M. was in. A song like "My Name Is Prince" gets shortened to less than 3 minutes. They weren't aware how to keep the integrity of the song, and take out Tony's vocals. The aforementioned edits does that.)

It was more of his lack of promotion and getting lost in the name change, than the album itself. D&P was a pop album, made to suffice a record company. prince is a heavy R&B album that should have been marketed to urban radio a lot more.

I never liked D&P too much, until Tony M. was taken out of it, then it became a whole new album for me. The same could be true for you for prince.

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Reply #3 posted 07/17/16 2:08pm

IamBryan

TrivialPursuit said:

You might be a bit hard of hearing. wink

"The Morning Papers" is a wonderful song, as is the first half of "Love 2 The 9s". "Damn U" should have been a bigger single, as should something like "Sweet Baby", or "And God Created Woman".

By the way, there is a Tony M. free (99%) version of Diamonds & Pearls and prince that someone did, and it gives new life to the set of songs. You realize that many of the songs should have never had a rap on them; that they were afterthoughts, tagged onto an otherwise great song for the sake of being trendy. (Beware, there's another version of prince where the person just edited out those sections of the song that Tony M. was in. A song like "My Name Is Prince" gets shortened to less than 3 minutes. They weren't aware how to keep the integrity of the song, and take out Tony's vocals. The aforementioned edits does that.)

It was more of his lack of promotion and getting lost in the name change, than the album itself. D&P was a pop album, made to suffice a record company. prince is a heavy R&B album that should have been marketed to urban radio a lot more.

I never liked D&P too much, until Tony M. was taken out of it, then it became a whole new album for me. The same could be true for you for prince.

Trivs! I am sobbing with tears of joy!

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Reply #4 posted 07/17/16 2:09pm

gollygirl

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luv4u said:

omg I like the entire album

Me too music

Thank you Prince for every note you left behind 💜
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Reply #5 posted 07/17/16 2:09pm

FlyOnTheWall

IamBryan said:

That is very lopsided album, hard to imagine that was recorded in the D&P time, there was no way that album was going to be a successful... the singles released for it with the exception of "7" (which should of been the 1st single released instead Sexy MF) ... he should of listed to WB on that one suggestion. Every single after that was just dreadful... My name is Prince is about as enjoyable as passing a kidney stone...Morning Papers? ummm...yeah. Damn U was a perfect fit for R&B charts. Tony M contributions were heavy on this album...i wish there was away to edit him out like they did Rosie.

In the early 90s before You Tube, internet, I Tunes...you had radio and MTV... If those songs sucked...no one was running out to buy that album... prince was DOA...

[Edited 7/17/16 13:42pm]

He won THREE Grammys after that album, so it's hard to make the case that it "KILLED Prince's career commercially!"

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Reply #6 posted 07/17/16 2:09pm

IamBryan

luv4u said:

omg I like the entire album

i think as "true" fans we overlook some of the work... but truthfully I do like the album...but sad it didnt continue with the success as D&P

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Reply #7 posted 07/17/16 2:11pm

gollygirl

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TrivialPursuit said:


By the way, there is a Tony M. free (99%) version of Diamonds & Pearls and prince that someone did, and it gives new life to the set of songs.

I never liked D&P too much, until Tony M. was taken out of it, then it became a whole new album for me. The same could be true for you for prince.

This would be worth sourcing, I have not come across it yet in my travels.......

Thank you Prince for every note you left behind 💜
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Reply #8 posted 07/17/16 2:29pm

SoulAlive

"The Morning Papers" is a decent,yet unremarkable song.A much better single choice was "And God Created Woman".


I also think that "The Continental" had alot of hit potential.

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Reply #9 posted 07/17/16 2:30pm

LonelyStarfish

.....killed his career until he had a WW #1 single with TMBGITW..... It was emancipation that "killed his career commercially"
Music is music, ultimately. If it makes you feel good, cool.

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Reply #10 posted 07/17/16 2:35pm

NorthC

He played Sexy MF on the Diamonds & Pearls tour before it was even out and the crowd just ate it up! Sexy MF came out in the summer of 1992 and it was the "alarmschijf" on Dutch radio, which meant they played it every hour for about a week. It was a hit alright over here. I guess the excitement of the tour had a lot to do with that. And the use of the "f" word of course. The later singles were not so succesful. This was the time when Prince's magic started to fade...
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Reply #11 posted 07/17/16 2:37pm

feeluupp

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Lets talk about COMMERCIAL for a second...

Since 1979 everyone of Prince's albums went Platinum counting world wide sales, until 1993.

With the exception of THE MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL IN THE WORLD single and ep which sold amazingly will, over 750,000 copies in the U.S. alone just for a single/ep...

All of Prince's albums were over a million sellers.

It was when he started to "sabotage" his commercial appeal for his artistic freedom. When he gave WB COME... It went all down hill commercially.

COME was the only album since FOR YOU, that was not a million seller.

The Love Symbol album was commercial. Maybe not as much as Diamonds & Pearls which sold over 6.7 million copies to date. The Love Symbol sold over 2 million world wide, and over 1.3 million copies in the U.S. alone...

However that was the bad "debut" album in agreement that his albums had to sell at least 5 million in order to get the 10$ million from WB.

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Reply #12 posted 07/17/16 2:41pm

RodeoSchro

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You mean the guy who went on to play the Super Bowl; who had the most successful tour of 2004 despite charging half of what everyone else was charging; the guy who had a #1 debut album with "3121"; the guy who redefined what a live show is?

That guy?

Heck, if that's "killing a career" then someone please kill mine!

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Reply #13 posted 07/17/16 2:44pm

gandorb

I agree with you about his choices for singles, but one album doesn't kill a career. It did go platinum in the US with this album and was one of his more successfully albums internationally, as sexy MF and even My name is Prince resonated elsewhere. In the Rolling Stone article about Prince in the 90s referenced in another recent thread, his crew try to argue with him to chose different first singles but he wasn't having any of it. His unwillingness to have others input about what to release (albums and singles) and his increasing disregard for commercial success has a lot more to do with his commercial downshlide than the prince album.

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Reply #14 posted 07/17/16 3:07pm

IstenSzek

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SoulAlive said:

"The Morning Papers" is a decent,yet unremarkable song.A much better single choice was "And God Created Woman".


I also think that "The Continental" had alot of hit potential.


iirc it was even mentioned on a sticker on the cover of the cd,

reading "including: sexy mf, 7, my name is prince, the continental"
so i suppose it was meant to be a single at some point early on.

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #15 posted 07/17/16 3:07pm

renfield

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It was for sure the end of an era, commercially. After the name change he was never perceived the same way again by the general public, even when he had a huge hit with TMBGITW. And while it seems obvious in hindsight that the singles were chosen poorly ("The Continental" just screamed pop smash!) you have to look at the choices in context. Prince was becoming irrelevant after the disaster of Graffiti Bridge, and his image was updated for the hip-hop generation thanks to "Gett Off". That single got people talking about him again, and was successfully followed up for pop radio by "Cream" and "Diamonds & Pearls". I think Prince thought he could up the ante with "Sexy MF" but he went too far. Since that song had been forgotten long before the album was released, he thought he would try for another "Gett Off" styled 'hard' hit with "My Name Is Prince", with "7" taking the place of "Cream" for pop radio.

.

I can see why Prince thought this would work, but it just didn't. As innovative has he was, once something worked for him commercially he tended to repeat it again and again. Like "When Doves Cry", "Kiss" had no bass line. With prince he tried duplicating the release strategy of "Diamonds & Pearls". After TMBGITW was a hit, he led album after album with a ballad as lead single. I think the 70s-sounding soul success of TMBGITW is why he chose "Betcha By Golly Wow" as a lead for "Emancipation", which was a terrible choice. After he unsuccessfully tried that again with "The One" and "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" radio was permanently done with him.

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Reply #16 posted 07/17/16 3:11pm

IstenSzek

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feeluupp said:

It was when he started to "sabotage" his commercial appeal for his artistic freedom. When he gave WB COME... It went all down hill commercially.

COME was the only album since FOR YOU, that was not a million seller.


i still feel like things would have ended up quite different, had he only given warners consent
(and had warners been willing to accept) to release both Come and Gold on the same day.

it could have been marketed as The Last Album By Prince and The Debut By prince

they would've only had to release 1 song from come with decent promotion. probably the
"come" ep, with the electronic remix shipped to radio and mtv.

those albums would have done well complimenting each other and being pitted against one
another. a nice concept, prince being once again his only biggest competitor etc.

shame things with warners ended up the way they did. although prince was happy about it
in the end and he did get his masters back finally, so hey ho.

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #17 posted 07/17/16 3:18pm

feeluupp

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IstenSzek said:

feeluupp said:

It was when he started to "sabotage" his commercial appeal for his artistic freedom. When he gave WB COME... It went all down hill commercially.

COME was the only album since FOR YOU, that was not a million seller.


i still feel like things would have ended up quite different, had he only given warners consent
(and had warners been willing to accept) to release both Come and Gold on the same day.

it could have been marketed as The Last Album By Prince and The Debut By prince

they would've only had to release 1 song from come with decent promotion. probably the
"come" ep, with the electronic remix shipped to radio and mtv.

those albums would have done well complimenting each other and being pitted against one
another. a nice concept, prince being once again his only biggest competitor etc.

shame things with warners ended up the way they did. although prince was happy about it
in the end and he did get his masters back finally, so hey ho.

agree.

the sad thing there was so much great music from the late 93-94 period that was really ignored by the masses... i mean if u had up his sales with THE GOLD EXPERIENCE, CHAOS & DISORDER and EMANCIPATION, it doesn't even pass the 2 million mark... His output was commercially ignored...

His last album to go multi platinum was MUSICOLOGY which sold over 2 million in the U.S. alone...

Sadly after his passing, his biggest selling album is THE VERY BEST OF PRINCE, which sold a million copies in the U.S. alone since his death.

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Reply #18 posted 07/17/16 3:25pm

AnnaStesia10

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I too love this entire album. It is great, raps and all. Music appreciation is totally subjective and I feel some people wanted Prince to stay within a certain time period and not evolve. I have been playing this album again recently and I do not skip any song, and I am a picky listener. Prince can be so misunderstood it is really unfortunate.
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #19 posted 07/17/16 3:51pm

nursev

Well...lemme just say it...U trippin falloff Love the whole cd and Blue Light is my song and Love 2 the 9's is just harmony heaven cloud9

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Reply #20 posted 07/17/16 3:59pm

NorthC

AnnaStesia10 said:

I too love this entire album. It is great, raps and all. Music appreciation is totally subjective and I feel some people wanted Prince to stay within a certain time period and not evolve. I have been playing this album again recently and I do not skip any song, and I am a picky listener. Prince can be so misunderstood it is really unfortunate.

I too hate this entire album. It sucks, raps and all. Yes, music appreciation is very subjective and if you want Prince to stay in a certain time period and just do the same ol' shit all over again just with more sound effects, then... This is the album 4 U! I'm a very picky listener too and that's exactly why I haven't listened to this album in a looooong time... And am not going to any time soon...
Sorry Ann, nothing personal. wink
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Reply #21 posted 07/17/16 4:03pm

nursev

NorthC said:

AnnaStesia10 said:
I too love this entire album. It is great, raps and all. Music appreciation is totally subjective and I feel some people wanted Prince to stay within a certain time period and not evolve. I have been playing this album again recently and I do not skip any song, and I am a picky listener. Prince can be so misunderstood it is really unfortunate.
I too hate this entire album. It sucks, raps and all. Yes, music appreciation is very subjective and if you want Prince to stay in a certain time period and just do the same ol' shit all over again just with more sound effects, then... This is the album 4 U! I'm a very picky listener too and that's exactly why I haven't listened to this album in a loooooong time... And am not going to any time soon... Sorry Ann, nothing personal. wink

Well damn tell us why U dont like it falloff

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Reply #22 posted 07/17/16 4:26pm

IamBryan

LonelyStarfish said:

.....killed his career until he had a WW #1 single with TMBGITW...... It was emancipation that "killed his career commercially"

it made #3 in the US and wasn't in support of a new album....TGE was DOA commerically released 18 months later when it was released... (TGE is my all time fave album)

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Reply #23 posted 07/17/16 4:28pm

IamBryan

RodeoSchro said:

You mean the guy who went on to play the Super Bowl; who had the most successful tour of 2004 despite charging half of what everyone else was charging; the guy who had a #1 debut album with "3121"; the guy who redefined what a live show is?

That guy?

Heck, if that's "killing a career" then someone please kill mine!

yep....he be the one....

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Reply #24 posted 07/17/16 4:31pm

IamBryan

renfield said:

It was for sure the end of an era, commercially. After the name change he was never perceived the same way again by the general public, even when he had a huge hit with TMBGITW. And while it seems obvious in hindsight that the singles were chosen poorly ("The Continental" just screamed pop smash!) you have to look at the choices in context. Prince was becoming irrelevant after the disaster of Graffiti Bridge, and his image was updated for the hip-hop generation thanks to "Gett Off". That single got people talking about him again, and was successfully followed up for pop radio by "Cream" and "Diamonds & Pearls". I think Prince thought he could up the ante with "Sexy MF" but he went too far. Since that song had been forgotten long before the album was released, he thought he would try for another "Gett Off" styled 'hard' hit with "My Name Is Prince", with "7" taking the place of "Cream" for pop radio.

.

I can see why Prince thought this would work, but it just didn't. As innovative has he was, once something worked for him commercially he tended to repeat it again and again. Like "When Doves Cry", "Kiss" had no bass line. With prince he tried duplicating the release strategy of "Diamonds & Pearls". After TMBGITW was a hit, he led album after album with a ballad as lead single. I think the 70s-sounding soul success of TMBGITW is why he chose "Betcha By Golly Wow" as a lead for "Emancipation", which was a terrible choice. After he unsuccessfully tried that again with "The One" and "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" radio was permanently done with him.

clapping

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Reply #25 posted 07/17/16 4:52pm

AnnaStesia10

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NorthC said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

I too love this entire album. It is great, raps and all. Music appreciation is totally subjective and I feel some people wanted Prince to stay within a certain time period and not evolve. I have been playing this album again recently and I do not skip any song, and I am a picky listener. Prince can be so misunderstood it is really unfortunate.

I too hate this entire album. It sucks, raps and all. Yes, music appreciation is very subjective and if you want Prince to stay in a certain time period and just do the same ol' shit all over again just with more sound effects, then... This is the album 4 U! I'm a very picky listener too and that's exactly why I haven't listened to this album in a looooong time... And am not going to any time soon...
Sorry Ann, nothing personal. wink


I dont take your comments personally. You have the right to believe in and like what you want. I just do not agree with you. He did give us new sounds on this album and did not just reproduce old sounds with more flare. I love this album, and just for you NorthC I am bumpin' the Love Symbol in your honor. Love ya!
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #26 posted 07/17/16 4:55pm

breakdown2k14

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What temporarily killed Prince's commercial appeal was the name change .people had a hard time taking him seriously after that but in 2004 and so on he gained commercial success with the musicology tour,Superbowl, 21 nights sold out in London,etc
[Edited 7/17/16 17:00pm]
There's Joy in repetition
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Reply #27 posted 07/17/16 4:56pm

nursev

breakdown2k14 said:

What temporarily killed Prince's commercial appeal was the name change .people had a hard time taking him seriously after that but in 2004 he gained commercial success with the musicology tour,Superbowl, 21 nights sold out in London,etc

agreed

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Reply #28 posted 07/17/16 5:15pm

Aerogram

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Sexy MF was a club hit and I still hear it once in while at my favorite bar -- ok, it's a leather/levi gay bar for butch guys like me, but I wish I could say the same for a lot of Prince songs.

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Reply #29 posted 07/17/16 5:16pm

IstenSzek

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feeluupp said:

IstenSzek said:


i still feel like things would have ended up quite different, had he only given warners consent
(and had warners been willing to accept) to release both Come and Gold on the same day.

it could have been marketed as The Last Album By Prince and The Debut By prince

they would've only had to release 1 song from come with decent promotion. probably the
"come" ep, with the electronic remix shipped to radio and mtv.

those albums would have done well complimenting each other and being pitted against one
another. a nice concept, prince being once again his only biggest competitor etc.

shame things with warners ended up the way they did. although prince was happy about it
in the end and he did get his masters back finally, so hey ho.

agree.

the sad thing there was so much great music from the late 93-94 period that was really ignored by the masses... i mean if u had up his sales with THE GOLD EXPERIENCE, CHAOS & DISORDER and EMANCIPATION, it doesn't even pass the 2 million mark... His output was commercially ignored...

His last album to go multi platinum was MUSICOLOGY which sold over 2 million in the U.S. alone...

Sadly after his passing, his biggest selling album is THE VERY BEST OF PRINCE, which sold a million copies in the U.S. alone since his death.


seriously, it's that little? eek man, people slept on a lot of great music!

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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