BartVanHemelen said:

Germanegro said:

As Lisa Capretto quotes Shanice speaking of Prince's advice to her in the OP's posted Huffington Post article:

>

“‘Stay independent,’” Shanice remembers him saying. “I’ll never forget that.”

It’s something that comes to mind especially when the work gets tough, she adds.

“I’m like, ‘Prince told me to stay independent, and he did it successfully, so I know it could be done,’” Shanice says. “I hear Prince telling me that. ‘Just hold on. Stay independent.’”

>

Isn't it hard to argue against such advice, now one point of Prince's legacy, after he reportedly has a few hundred million dollars left to his estate

.

No, that's the potential worth. Completely different thing. Which is why Bremer wants to get workign on new releases ASAP: because they need ACTUAL MONEY to pay the upcoming tax bills, actual money that obviously isn't available right now.

.

.

Ah, short-term gains vs long-term losses. Didn't see any of those companies lining up for any of his recent releases, now did they?

.

And why would they? Why would they invest time and energy and money into an artist who proved over and over again to be a bad agent, someone who wouldn't promote the records they paid him millions for. That's time and energy and money they could have invested into one of their own acts, instead they dumped onto something they assumed to be a prestige project and instead they got a dumpster fire.

.

BMG Europe fought to get the rights to NPS, and then weren't too happy when their "Prince" record got downplayed to an "NPG" record, and then looked on in astonishment how his tour for that record failed to significantly impact its sales. Imagine their dismay when Clive Davis shafted them by purchasing Prince's Rave the next year, which turned out to be an even bigger and more costlier failure.

.

It was and is a challenging task to find static organizations equipped to move toward a state-of-the era business model, so that kind of thing didn't always happen overnight. However, as more talent are becoming aware of business realities, their collective influence has the potential to begin to change the shape of the deal structure by the big entertainment companies.

.

I've been hearing this for 20+ years, and so far I don't see much movement.

.

[Edited 7/10/16 4:17am]

I believe that the business model that you are basing your argument on--for Prince to have embraced some lucrative deal with a BMG, Arista, or Warner Brothers--is a fading one losing its vitality by the day. We contine to see reports of acts failing to find satisfaction with business contracts of the current brand and looking to find dealings beyond those. The technology exists for people to produce their own music, and crowdsourcing is one lucrative new means for new and old artists alike to sustain their artistic growth. Audiences are wishing to directly support the artists that they love and these are partnerships that more groups seem to be happily, successfully living with.

>

Since ownership of Prince's catalog rests with his estate, if its distribution is adequately dealt, I feel that there is a decent chance that bills will be paid--the music will proceed to be manufactured for sale and continue to generate revenue. If not, hey, news flash--Prince has passed. He reached his sunset and his experimentation is over, not necessarily a slam-dunk but he did what he wanted to for a significant portion of his career within the framework set by the myriad current business models to earn his dollars, while trying to break new ground (props!); supported some bands; gifted resources to charitable works. Prince has laid impressive memories on other artists who have witnessed his labors and those by others of similar mind and taken notes to hopefully make better decisions on how to work within or adjacent to the industries to acheive their own career goals. Failing a timely influx of cash for tax payment and legal obligations toward Prince's estate, assets will indeed change ownership to another entity that could harness whatever popularity the man built in his lifetime--given by today's variety of acknowlegements, will presumably be significant (and could continue to grow, IMHO)--to promote the Paisley Park museum/studio/whatever to serve as a tangible testament to the experience of the "Minneapolis Genius." Again, if that fails and the building meets the bulldozer, man, its been a pretty hype ride until now. Beautiful memories will persist for those of us who are so inclined to frame this "edutainment" experience as such, and we will continue to relish it.

>

Can you say that Prince was "cool?"

Noodled24 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

It was far from a fluke. It was a great song, obviously, and still plays out well today. It was promoted well enough that it did make it to #1. Hell, that that was all over radio and TV, even back home at the time. Not a fluke in any sense.

Yeah I know, I was being sarcastic. "A fluke" is a one off... Prince was still hitting the top 10 regularly. It wasn't even the only hit single from Gold album...

OH I know. I was agreeing with you. It was more directed at that other guy.

Germanegro said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I've been hearing this for 20+ years, and so far I don't see much movement.

.

[Edited 7/10/16 4:17am]

I believe that the business model that you are basing your argument on--for Prince to have embraced some lucrative deal with a BMG, Arista, or Warner Brothers--is a fading one losing its vitality by the day. We contine to see reports of acts failing to find satisfaction with business contracts of the current brand and looking to find dealings beyond those. The technology exists for people to produce their own music, and crowdsourcing is one lucrative new means for new and old artists alike to sustain their artistic growth. Audiences are wishing to directly support the artists that they love and these are partnerships that more groups seem to be happily, successfully living with.

>

Since ownership of Prince's catalog rests with his estate, if its distribution is adequately dealt, I feel that there is a decent chance that bills will be paid--the music will proceed to be manufactured for sale and continue to generate revenue. If not, hey, news flash--Prince has passed. He reached his sunset and his experimentation is over, not necessarily a slam-dunk but he did what he wanted to for a significant portion of his career within the framework set by the myriad current business models to earn his dollars, while trying to break new ground (props!); supported some bands; gifted resources to charitable works. Prince has laid impressive memories on other artists who have witnessed his labors and those by others of similar mind and taken notes to hopefully make better decisions on how to work within or adjacent to the industries to acheive their own career goals. Failing a timely influx of cash for tax payment and legal obligations toward Prince's estate, assets will indeed change ownership to another entity that could harness whatever popularity the man built in his lifetime--given by today's variety of acknowlegements, will presumably be significant (and could continue to grow, IMHO)--to promote the Paisley Park museum/studio/whatever to serve as a tangible testament to the experience of the "Minneapolis Genius." Again, if that fails and the building meets the bulldozer, man, its been a pretty hype ride until now. Beautiful memories will persist for those of us who are so inclined to frame this "edutainment" experience as such, and we will continue to relish it.

>

Can you say that Prince was "cool?"

Hell will freeze over before you see him say that.

destinyc1 said:

For those that dont know bart -bart knows this music industry.And yes he has his opinions on prince just like all of us do.Its crazy but,bart has been right about many things.He doesn't do the boo hoo stuff so save the where's the respect for prince he died.I think over the next year or so books and movies are going to start coming out big time.I forget who said the board was going to be dead soon or something like that I think once these people start speaking out we will have a lot to talk about.

Mate, doesn't matter who we are talking about there are others here that basically fit the same mold, but let me tell ya: there was a very pesimistic view of Prince's future post-WB and there are some people who announced upcoming failure after impending failure, right from the start.

What happened? When NPS happened, the end was near. When The Rainbow Children happened, the end was close. Then there was the ONA tour and the great reviews -- oh but he was relegated to playing those small venues, the end was still near! Then there was Musicology and the tour --- selling out! Can only fill the arenas because of the hits! The end is still near!

And on and on, until 2014, four albums then -- the end for real.

Moral of the story: pessimistic people always announce that things are not going to go right, and when they don't go as well, they feel vindicated. The problem is that they forget all the times they were wrong and all the times they announced the sky was falling. Some of the things they said will be correct but mostly because things are rarely 100% successful all the time. Other things they said won't be -- because the sky can't be falling every single day.

In the end, being wall to wall negative is as much of a bias as being 100% positive. It's like the guy that announces a krach every three years and one day he's right and becomes known as the guy who predicted the krach, but in reality there were lots of time where he was wildly exagerating.

snakesineverycolor said:

Aerogram said:

destinyc1 said:

For those that dont know bart -bart knows this music industry.And yes he has his opinions on prince just like all of us do.Its crazy but,bart has been right about many things.He doesn't do the boo hoo stuff so save the where's the respect for prince he died.I think over the next year or so books and movies are going to start coming out big time.I forget who said the board was going to be dead soon or something like that I think once these people start speaking out we will have a lot to talk about.

Mate, doesn't matter who we are talking about there are others here that basically fit the same mold, but let me tell ya: there was a very pesimistic view of Prince's future post-WB and there are some people who announced upcoming failure after impending failure, right from the start.

What happened? When NPS happened, the end was near. When The Rainbow Children happened, the end was close. Then there was the ONA tour and the great reviews -- oh but he was relegated to playing those small venues, the end was still near! Then there was Musicology and the tour --- selling out! Can only fill the arenas because of the hits! The end is still near!

And on and on, until 2014, four albums then -- the end for real.

Moral of the story: pessimistic people always announce that things are not going to go right, and when they don't go as well, they feel vindicated. The problem is that they forget all the times they were wrong and all the times they announced the sky was falling. Some of the things they said will be correct but mostly because things are rarely 100% successful all the time. Other things they said won't be -- because the sky can't be falling every single day.

In the end, being wall to wall negative is as much of a bias as being 100% positive. It's like the guy that announces a krach every three years and one day he's right and becomes known as the guy who predicted the krach, but in reality there were lots of time where he was wildly exagerating.

I totally agree 100%.

Guitarhero said:

Aerogram said:

larksanders said:

Yet the HNR albums came out, yet the 3rdEyeGirl Album came out. Say what you want about how he acheived it, but let's not forget he essentially got what he wanted.

Correct and even if he had considerable difficulties with the HitNRun albums, it's not exactly fair to say Prince was unsuccessful at being independent since he clearly did well enough to operate independently for close to two decades.

But that was still success from tours/shows/concerts etc not from albums.

I don't think Shanice has the money power Prince had(nor the solid history 1978-1992) to be out there and successful.
And from what I remember reading, she and her husband were about broke.

I think someone would have to have a solid musical history to really be independant.
Even thought that depends on what level of succes and lifestyle they are looking for.
It is possible to be successful and independed on a smaller scale, but it depends on what that person is looking for as far as extent.
Shanice found fame for a short spurt somewhere in the 90s? And the music industry changed again. She got married and took time off I believe? Which is a hard thing to come back from.

Sade has a solid musical history, Anita Baker has a solid musical history, Lenny Kravitz and Cyndie Lauper have solid musical histories.

Azifwekare319 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

That's why his first indie single TMBGITW was such a hit. That's why he made more profit per unit sold with NPG Records than he did after WB took their cut. That's why he had the freedom to experiment with distribution, having the first album sold online by a major artist (now standard practice) and used the NPGMC (which opened months before iTunes) to show what could be done with legal music downloads (which is also now standard practice). That's why he managed to secure lucrative one-off distribution deals with the majors to maximise profits.

So yeah, I guess he did.

[Edited 7/9/16 11:42am]

But there were other things involved in why TMBGITW was such a hit. I still don't like the song. But he did do some good promo for the song/video. That is always a plus no matter what. And also he was still known.

But an album later NPS was no where, Rave?, 1 Night Alone? Huge Prince fans knew of the stuff. But as far as the music popularity it wasn't there.

It would definately take him some time to figure it out and work it out of course.
If Prince kept working at having a successful website. Just 1, not change the name or start many different new ones. And be on the business with it. His independance could have been bigger when it came to album sales.

But Prince made his money and success by touring and doing shows.

Sadly a lot of the music he did after WB he rarely rendered live in shows. Even Emancipation music was rarely performed. After WB most of the concerts were still WB years hits driven.

He allowed the Vegas One Night Alone shows to be streamed on Yahoo.comMusic. Those were good moves to make.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Aerogram said:

Correct and even if he had considerable difficulties with the HitNRun albums, it's not exactly fair to say Prince was unsuccessful at being independent since he clearly did well enough to operate independently for close to two decades.

But that was still success from tours/shows/concerts etc not from albums.

I don't think Shanice has the money power Prince had to be out there and successful.
And from what I remember reading, she and her husband were about broke.

I think someone would have to have a solid musical history to really be independant.
Even thought that depends on what level of succes and lifestyle they are looking for.
It is possible to be successful and independed on a smaller scale, but it depends on what that person is looking for as far as extent.
Shanice found fame for a short spurt somewhere in the 90s? And the music industry changed again. She got married and took time off I believe? Which is a hard thing to come back from.

Sade has a solid musical history, Anita Baker has a solid musical history, Lenny Kravitz and Cyndie Lauper have solid musical histories.

I wonder if Sade will come back with a new album in a couple of years... 10 year mark coming up. The last tour was great!

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Many of us h ave watched Bart being an AZZHOLE for years. We know he's a shrimpy little punk who probably can't muster two words in front of any one real people, which is why he is such a big shot on this site. However, if an aZZHOLE like Bart has to have a limit, right? Prince is gone and this guy still rails on....it's like an old girlfiend who can't let go, despite now having grown old and flabby...she keeps on talking about things that are irrelevant.

Bart, is a pun, k MF questioning one the decisions of a stone called genius. Yes, we know...Prince was not the best business man despite all the ridiculous reports saying otherwise. He did not take care of things..newsflash, he was an artist...in fact, he was the artist of oour times. He wAS BOLD AS HELL and we wish he'd been more business savvy but he was not.

Bart, did you join this site and put this much time into it b/c u were looking to Prince as a business mentor or b/c you loved his artistry?

U are a silly MF. Why waste so much time on something that brings u down..?

purplethunder3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But that was still success from tours/shows/concerts etc not from albums.

I don't think Shanice has the money power Prince had to be out there and successful.
And from what I remember reading, she and her husband were about broke.

I think someone would have to have a solid musical history to really be independant.
Even thought that depends on what level of succes and lifestyle they are looking for.
It is possible to be successful and independed on a smaller scale, but it depends on what that person is looking for as far as extent.
Shanice found fame for a short spurt somewhere in the 90s? And the music industry changed again. She got married and took time off I believe? Which is a hard thing to come back from.

Sade has a solid musical history, Anita Baker has a solid musical history, Lenny Kravitz and Cyndie Lauper have solid musical histories.

I wonder if Sade will come back with a new album in a couple of years... 10 year mark coming up. The last tour was great!

I know
She is one of those who can go away and I mean go away, no award shows, no interviews, no public sitings, and come back and sell albums, make videos and sell out tours.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I wonder if Sade will come back with a new album in a couple of years... 10 year mark coming up. The last tour was great!

I know
She is one of those who can go away and I mean go away, no award shows, no interviews, no public sitings, and come back and sell albums, make videos and sell out tours.

When she wants to disappear, she really disappears! I couldn't find any recent news on her at all. Her facebook and website haven't been updated in years...

OldFriends4Sale said:

Aerogram said:

Correct and even if he had considerable difficulties with the HitNRun albums, it's not exactly fair to say Prince was unsuccessful at being independent since he clearly did well enough to operate independently for close to two decades.

But that was still success from tours/shows/concerts etc not from albums.

I don't think Shanice has the money power Prince had(nor the solid history 1978-1992) to be out there and successful.
And from what I remember reading, she and her husband were about broke.

I think someone would have to have a solid musical history to really be independant.
Even thought that depends on what level of succes and lifestyle they are looking for.
It is possible to be successful and independed on a smaller scale, but it depends on what that person is looking for as far as extent.
Shanice found fame for a short spurt somewhere in the 90s? And the music industry changed again. She got married and took time off I believe? Which is a hard thing to come back from.

Sade has a solid musical history, Anita Baker has a solid musical history, Lenny Kravitz and Cyndie Lauper have solid musical histories.

First of all, less and less money is made from music sales, touring and merchandizing are where it's at and this has been the case for a couple of years now.

Secondly, lots of artists are independent to begin with and make money from gigs. They don't have a lavish lifestyle, but they're doing what they love.

So it all depends -- sure, it was precious of Prince to give this principled advice, but as many have mentioned he was an artist first and a businessman last in terms of talent.

Aerogram said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But that was still success from tours/shows/concerts etc not from albums.

I don't think Shanice has the money power Prince had(nor the solid history 1978-1992) to be out there and successful.
And from what I remember reading, she and her husband were about broke.

I think someone would have to have a solid musical history to really be independant.
Even thought that depends on what level of succes and lifestyle they are looking for.
It is possible to be successful and independed on a smaller scale, but it depends on what that person is looking for as far as extent.
Shanice found fame for a short spurt somewhere in the 90s? And the music industry changed again. She got married and took time off I believe? Which is a hard thing to come back from.

Sade has a solid musical history, Anita Baker has a solid musical history, Lenny Kravitz and Cyndie Lauper have solid musical histories.

First of all, less and less money is made from music sales, touring and merchandizing are where it's at and this has been the case for a couple of years now.

Secondly, lots of artists are independent to begin with and make money from gigs. They don't have a lavish lifestyle, but they're doing what they love.

So it all depends -- sure, it was precious of Prince to give this principled advice, but as many have mentioned he was an artist first and a businessman last in terms of talent.

1. yes @ this time. But we are talking about then. When he was freed from his WB contract. CDs/Albums still made a lot of money. Online selling was just starting in that time.
Prince sold a good amount of stuff on his 1-800 website. But he did not sell like before. Record stores were still in good supply.

2. I said the same thing. read the bolded comments

3. It was good advice of course. But to a singer, who doesn't have a lot of fame or name power. It would not be that easy. A lot of singers after that first initial big album try to continue that. But it usually doesn't work. Look at all the singers trying to get a career going or revive one. The game has changed, the market is flooded. And nobody wants to sing back up to someone bigger than they are. So they keep trying the same thing over and over. Good advice: Shanice has to change her direction. There is nothing wrong with shining singing back up to a major artist whether it's rock pop or whatever, and put out some music as you go. You might not be able to release a full album on your own. Release an album of 3 strong songs. Collaborate with others and do joint albums, do Broadway

purplethunder3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I know
She is one of those who can go away and I mean go away, no award shows, no interviews, no public sitings, and come back and sell albums, make videos and sell out tours.

When she wants to disappear, she really disappears! I couldn't find any recent news on her at all. Her facebook and website haven't been updated in years...

lol
Sade does it and I don't know how.

And then pops up out of nowhere and blowing up

BartVanHemelen said:

Guitarhero said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Truly sad that this guy despises Prince even in death..no love...no appreciation for what was given...zero acknowledgement for the immense charity work done....even artists who show their respect are dismissed.

Did you really believe he would change with Prince's death?

[Edited 7/10/16 12:39pm]

Yes, I know! I wasn't anticipating that to occur

>

I was just tying to offer the opportunity for Bart to prove that he's not actually been trolling Prince on this fansite for 20+ years! I understand and appreciate criticism of Prince where missteps or offenses have been made, but geez, what is up with the "Debbbie Dower" act? I, too, appreciate knowledge of the bare facts regarding deals and sales figures, but sometimes those negative interpretations will just go the extra mile.

>

I just wonder how many "REMs" and "Metallicas" the industry has left to fill their coffers and keep their old "hit machine" running?

OldFreinds4Sale said:

3. It was good advice of course. But to a singer, who doesn't have a lot of fame or name power. It would not be that easy. A lot of singers after that first initial big album try to continue that. But it usually doesn't work. Look at all the singers trying to get a career going or revive one. The game has changed, the market is flooded. And nobody wants to sing back up to someone bigger than they are. So they keep trying the same thing over and over. Good advice: Shanice has to change her direction. There is nothing wrong with shining singing back up to a major artist whether it's rock pop or whatever, and put out some music as you go. You might not be able to release a full album on your own. Release an album of 3 strong songs. Collaborate with others and do joint albums, do Broadway

OF4S, Shanice could make any one of those career moves as she sees fit. If she doesn't want to sing backup on Sade's album, why should she care to do that and place her career in the hands of someone else's timetable? She can realize her own goal to record a collection of her own songs and earn money from that. Why not? Tools and networks exist for her to be able to do that. An artist's productivity does not need to fit within a scale of economy that is projected by a huge entertainment corporation. There are endless opportunities to fill niche markets, and with a more persistent presence within those, there is an opprtunity for anyone to gain greater recognition and further build an audience.

Aerogram said:

First of all, less and less money is made from music sales, touring and merchandizing are where it's at and this has been the case for a couple of years now.

Secondly, lots of artists are independent to begin with and make money from gigs. They don't have a lavish lifestyle, but they're doing what they love.

So it all depends -- sure, it was precious of Prince to give this principled advice, but as many have mentioned he was an artist first and a businessman last in terms of talent.

Prince was a unique individual and was probably a much better business man than many will give him credit for. He made deals to suit his needs that were not necessarily driven by a sales-maximization mentality. In that aspect, he was not a crack busninessman. He rather wished to highligt music for its novelty or project his own tastes and interests, such as promoting a protoge--so his drive was different from that of your average businessman and this would drive some people crazy!

>

Audiences today have an aversion to paying for music and will record given the freedom offered by the Web and download what they like for free. Prince tried to draw a line against this trend and made strong efforts to keep his music sheilded from such excesses by removing it from the internet practically in total, save the projects that the record company helped produce for promotional efforts. It made him look like a loon, but he had strong resolve and a long foresight. It is good to have promotional materials available to the public, but you don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater while doing so.

>

Today's audiences will need to eventually recognize that they must support the music that they receive. Given the current course of events, broke musicians will quit publishing their stuff. Revnues from record company sales are drying up, and evnetually through the lack of this vital support there will be nothing left to download but those same REM and Metallica tunes that the companies have put out there or allowed to be stuck on Youtube, and if anybody wants to hear something new they will have to go out to the bars, cafes, and clubs where people are getting paid to play their stuff, and if people really like it might actually *buy* a CD from their merchandise counter. What a concept!

I've been waiting since the 80's to find out who Prince REALLY was! I cant wait...

destinyc1 said:

For those that dont know bart -bart knows this music industry.And yes he has his opinions on prince just like all of us do.Its crazy but,bart has been right about many things.He doesn't do the boo hoo stuff so save the where's the respect for prince he died.I think over the next year or so books and movies are going to start coming out big time.I forget who said the board was going to be dead soon or something like that I think once these people start speaking out we will have a lot to talk about.

I used to LOVE shanice back in 87... check no half steppin..

jazzvirtuoso said:

Wow here's the weird part, a childhood friend of mine just left and had asked me who my favorite female singer was, and I said Mariah. Now, I condider myself somewhat of a musicologist. But my friend said that Shanice was better than Mariah and had a better whistle register. I of course argued with that but we let youtube decide and sure enough her whistle from what I heard was stronger than Mariah's. I was actually shocked, I know this is somewhat off topic, but ol girl can sang her butt off. AMAZING!

Germanegro said:

OF4S, Shanice could make any one of those career moves as she sees fit. If she doesn't want to sing backup on Sade's album, why should she care to do that and place her career in the hands of someone else's timetable? She can realize her own goal to record a collection of her own songs and earn money from that. Why not? Tools and networks exist for her to be able to do that. An artist's productivity does not need to fit within a scale of economy that is projected by a huge entertainment corporation. There are endless opportunities to fill niche markets, and with a more persistent presence within those, there is an opprtunity for anyone to gain greater recognition and further build an audience.

I'm just thowing out stuff in general not just for Shanice. I'm saying, waiting on that hit record like in 1987 most likely won't happen. The industry is different. The market is flooded with people who can sing and want fame.

You are saying anything that I'm not saying.

My post is saying there are so many different avenues of work for singers other than the rnb/pop singer. Which in these days is a dime a dozen.

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

You might be the biggest tool on the web. Without question on this board. Consistently, negatively trolling a fansite and its posters instead of putting your time to good use for something you actually give a sh!t about. Take up a hobby like jerking off more, or catching Pokemon in the park like the rest of nerd world did over the weekend. How you havent been permabanned yet is beyond everyones comprehension. Nice mods I guess.

snakesineverycolor said:

<snipped>

Declaring it was a "failure" because he essentially became a boutique artist who didn't keep records in print presumes he failed to reach the audience he wanted, and declaring it a "success" ignores that he may have done a poor job estimating the opportunity cost and long-term consequences of the model he chose to pursue.

however it served Prince's needs at the time, the distribution model he wound up using was ultimately a bad one, which at the very least needed fine tuning it never received. The clear evidence on that front is simple: no one who agreed to do it once ever agreed to do it a second time.

Whatever Prince may be, he is NOT a model of how to successfully create an independent music empire. His career was built in the studio system, and then he tore it away from that system. All the things he had late in his life - the studio, the fan base, the media interest - were built into a massive foundation when he was very firmly ensconced in a model in which he was clearly not "independent." Had he started and stayed independent, it's highly unlikely he would ever have been anything like what he was, and that's important.

Him giving another artist the advice to "stay independent" is, in some ways, him suggesting a more difficult, and more unlikely, road to success than his own.

Very well thought out and written, even the parts snipped for brevity. Can't possibly overstate my agreement.

.......

Prince gained a lot of press and credibility in the independence arena by fighting record companies, fighting the internet, and fighting his fans. Others like Ani DiFranco (and older cos. Olivia Records and Redwood Records come to mind too, among many) quietly went out and built companies and systems with which to record, distribute, tour, with like-minded artists.

Prince gained his independence rep as much or more by fighting and funding lawyers than by anything else. When it came to doing something practical about it, he wasn't able to plan nor build nor stick to anything workable (even getting cds mailed or functioning downloads to all of small groups who paid for them). He was able to use his major label/system-built weath and fame later to continue on his original path, still largely within the system he decried, using the tools aquired with major label money, assistance, and fame.

It's a mistake to confuse fighting and lawyering (what Prince mostly did) with building and sustaining workable alternatives (which Prince mostly didn't). In a way he gained the most with the advent of the internet. If he didn't have constantly shifting technology to battle and toy with, he would have been expect to eventually illustrate real progress with an alterative plan that didn't fully rely on already being rich and famous (as Ani, Zappa, and others did).

MD431Madcat said:

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

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He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

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So, when Prince was alive, you spent the bulk of your time on this site discussing how terrible he and his career were. Now, that he's dead, you are still spending the bulk of your time on this site discussing how terrible he and his career were....I'm starting to think that there's something seriously wrong with you. Even in death, you are following the "career" and "career choices" of someone who displeased you so much that you rarely had anything postive to say about him. Given the fact that Prince is dead, is there any chance that you will finally find something or someone that pleases you enough that you don't have to spend so much of your time discussing something that displeases you as much as Prince, his career, and his career choices? If I hated Prince and his work as much as you do for as long as you have, I would have found something that pleases me a long time ago rather than spend a good amount of my time wasting it with something that displeases me. But, alas, that's just the sanity in me talking.