I'm enjoying reading all of this. My first thread in years and I get great response in the most informative manner. Thank you orgers

TRC keeps coming back as an album that did not do much for a few of you. On the other hand, I too have reconnected with his material once Musicology was released.

1990-1999

Socially-Culturally the music/vision didn't speak to me in relation to what I was experiencing in life

I did continue to watch tv performances, would watch a video that might pop up.
Listened to certain songs.
When I heard I Hate U I sparked up big time. That was the first time I regularly went to the record store to see when the Gold Experience was out. I liked it but it did not continue the spark.

I guess I like everything he does...most everything....very talented man.

TrivialPursuit said:

ksgemini63 said:

Everything after Revolution. Without Wendy and Lisa not the same tonal quality just not the same after Dream factory era

A narrow view. The Revolution did 3 albums out of almost 40 years. That discounts For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, and 1999, plus gems like Sign O The Times, Lovesexy, and Batman. To say gems like The Gold Experience, Come, Exodus (sans the segues), & Chaos and Disorder don't measure up makes me question if you've even listened to Prince music at all.

[Edited 7/5/16 18:41pm]

Adorecream said:

I actually like all his periods except one. That is 1997 to 2005, why/ it was the age of NewPowersoul and Rave , 2 very ho hum albums and the era of TRC, ONA and the NPGMC era, none of that music I gravitate to. A lot of plastic music, bombastic production, overdubs, samples and looping in the early part and then all the preaching and boringness of the ONA set. NEWS was maudling Jazz.

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Pretty much I love all the period from 94East up to Emancipation (This would include Crystal Ball, but not the truth, which is late 1996) and again from SST/3121 through to the last notes on HNR Phase 2 "Thats it!"

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In general music, I really like all the early era (1890s to 1940s) as I listen to a lot of music on 78s, like 1920s Jazz, blue, rags, comedy and a great song I am discovering now is "Crazy Rhythm" from 1928. I watch a lot of videos showing old 78s playing and have a few ancient 78s myself. The only period I do not care for is the post 2000 era and most rap music and heavy metal type music. For eras, I really like 1900s and 1910s music, 1920s jazz and pop, 1930s big band and swing, blues 1940s big band, 1950s rock and roll (early 1950s sentimental music I am not a fan of, eg Frank Sinatra, Rosemary Clooney) not into Elvis either. I like 1960s rock and pop, 1970s funk and disco, 1980s synth pop and early 1990s new jack swing and pop. My tastes stop around 1996 with the last stuff I love being Fantasy era Mariah Carey, Toni Braxton and TLC.

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But I recommend 1920s jazz pop, seriously this music is really quite funky for its time. Mostly post 1925 when they had electric recording and you can hear it more. The standard late 1920s song had about a minute of hot jazz playing, you get trumpets, horns, saxes and even violins and flutes, and then some guy will sing for about a minute and the song descends back into the hot jazz and then usually suddenly ends with a cymbal clang or the music stops as often they were cutting the mother wax in those days. The music is always hot and frantic as they had to play a whole piece in like 3 minutes and 20 seconds as that is all the music a 10 inch shellac platter could take.

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Most of the best stuff is 1925 - 1929 and 1929 was the biggest year of record sales until 1955, why because the depression killed off the music industry. Sales of gramophones and records peaked at this time, but as a standard disc cost 75 cents in the USA and 7/6 or 10/- in the British world and even the cheapest players cost several guineas (21/- or $4 US) and the Depression saw mass poverty, records lost popularity. The movies and radio were cheaper. Many unions also stopped many musicians and most big bands did music for movies.

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Records revived slightly in 1934 and through the late 1930s (1930 was a farily good year as the Depression took a while to sink in). Also much music of the later 1930s was re recordings and reissues on budget labels like Regal Zonophone (Such records cost 35c or 4/-) and country/hillbilly music really caught on. Big names had records too like Bing Crosby and Frank sinatra in the later 1930s and 1940. This was the age of the album too, the first albums contained 4 to 10 78 records in cases with nice covers, but these were very fragile as well. In 1949 the 33 rpm vinyl long player came out and it was called an album, that is where the name comes from - Volumes containing multiple 78s.

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WW2 saw many artists into recording V discs and their were drives to recycle old shellac and make new V disc out of it, hence why we have lost a lot of classic 1920s music (Records before the 1920s are scarce and often played poorly because they were acoustically recorded and heavy steel needles before 1935 wrecked the discs after a few plays). Only after 1946 did musis sales and records take off again, but vinyl entered the market in 1948 and these records quickly took over from the fragile 78s (Still most 1950s singles were shellac 78s as it was cheaper).

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1955 was a bumper year for music, thanks to rock and roll and now more teenagers bought singles whereas before it was adults who often bought discs. This growth continued until the late 1970s as music was mainstreamed. 78s finished around 1957 to 1963. Although the 78 ruled supreme in India and Africa (There was a thriving market for 78s in 1950s/1960s Congo) well into the 1960s.

[Edited 7/5/16 17:05pm]

great post!, i've been meaning to listen to some of the earlier american music. perhaps you've got a few prime things i could check out. from what little I know of the pop music of that era, it was more or less euro-derived outside of the jazz/blues idioms.

honest question, those of you who hated the rap, what would you have liked to see him do? keep making the same music? finding better collaborators? just curious. everyone pretty much bowed to the power of hip hop, michael jackson did, even bruce springsteen started using hip hop beats and a hip hop producer. I usually could do without it really, are those guys trying to get new fans? keep old ones? what do you think. Michael and Prince both weren't sold on hip hop for awhile so it wasn't cuz they liked it.

MonsterZeroTwo said:

Most of the 2000's stuff. I'm 27 years old. I'm a guitar player. I'm a rocker. I like James Brown, Temptations, Motown, Smokey, but a lot of his stuff was real jazzy, slow (ie: Somewhere Here On Earth, What Do You Want Me To Do?, etc.) It just isn't my taste. Even the more rock oriented stuff like Guitar or Fury I just flat out didn't like. Those songs are no Computer Blue, Zanalee. That's not to say there weren't songs I didn't enjoy. Most of his "new" stuff from 2000 to Art Official Age to be honest I didn't care to get immediately. I always kept up on the news but I was actuallt losing interest in his music. Well, the "new" music. But then Art Official Age came out. I remember hearing the Funknroll remix and was like "Woah, those sounds are hot"! All the Josh shit aside, I was excited again. And I bought it the day it came out. And I've said it since then, Art Official Age is the best record he's released all decade. I love it. I have a deeply personal connection with it because of what I was going through in my life at that time. It was really one of those "This album was written for me" kind of deals. That's only happened one other time before. Not a Prince record. But now while I STILL love it, it does give the nurse/affirmation stuff a different feeling, because of what happened. That's my answer. Just, thank you Prince for making that record. It means a lot to me.

did you like plectrumelectrum? that was a heavier album, I didnt like what I heard so I didn't buy that one.

- phase 1

- hits, hits and more hits (while aftershows were still somewhat interesting if they were occurring)

what, really??

I love Phase 1:


excellent album.... I enjoy every track (maybe except the opener)..

I don't connect with Phase 2 however, this album is really crappy though.. that's imo... yuck.. so boring, I only enjoy 2 songs here..

what am I doing wrong about Phase 2, I wonder, since some here seems to even like it, Phase 2...???

Baltimore is one of the worst song I have ever heard, same with most of these, RnRLA crap.. and I am not feeling the rest...

Only Groovy Potential and Revelation here.... =>

PeteSilas said:

did you like plectrumelectrum? that was a heavier album, I didnt like what I heard so I didn't buy that one.

A very bad album, yes, I agree...

still 2 wonderful tracks:

Wow
Anotherlove

PeteSilas said:

honest question, those of you who hated the rap, what would you have liked to see him do? keep making the same music? finding better collaborators? just curious. everyone pretty much bowed to the power of hip hop, michael jackson did, even bruce springsteen started using hip hop beats and a hip hop producer. I usually could do without it really, are those guys trying to get new fans? keep old ones? what do you think. Michael and Prince both weren't sold on hip hop for awhile so it wasn't cuz they liked it.

That is a good question PeteSilas. As for me, I don't like rap overall whether Prince does it or anybody else. Neither the rhythm nor the tone of voice and lyrics that usually are part of rap music. I guess this answers why that period did not do it for me.

Lost interest around the RAVE era, found the album disappointing and the live performances just seemed to be Sly & The Family Stone tributes with a sub-par band. Won me back with One Nite Alone...

Musicology Era (2004)...While I enjoy some of the tracks Musicology album, it's never been a top album to me. I've also never been a fan of the Musicology Tour, I never got a sense of power like his other tours (The acoustic part is good though). For me this era just always seemed like the 'blandest' era of them all...Fortuantely with 3121 and beyond he was back on track!

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PeteSilas said:

honest question, those of you who hated the rap, what would you have liked to see him do? keep making the same music? finding better collaborators? just curious. everyone pretty much bowed to the power of hip hop, michael jackson did, even bruce springsteen started using hip hop beats and a hip hop producer. I usually could do without it really, are those guys trying to get new fans? keep old ones? what do you think. Michael and Prince both weren't sold on hip hop for awhile so it wasn't cuz they liked it.

.

It's not so much that he bowed to hip hop, but the style of the bow. For me, Dangerous is a great album, and the beats, which I guess are more New Jack Swing than hip hop, are the best part. I guess the Heavy D cameo on Jam is the "worst" rap, but it's pretty brief, and not bad - just Heavy D. Later, when Biggie or whoever else would pop up on an MJ song, I never much minded.

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Prince, though, felt embarrassing. The raps themselves were so aggressive: often vulgar, with no air, swing, breathing room, or ease to the words, that it all seemed fake - like he had a chip on his shoulder, and if he pushed harder we might not notice. As opposed to Dangerous, which was often minimalist, Prince's music sounded cluttered and bombastic.

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I don't know what he could have done different. Stopped trying so hard, I guess, and scale everything back? I wish he had followed electronic music to different ends than "Loose" and "New World". I wish his resonse to grunge had been more than "Endorphinmachine", and I wish his bows to hip hop were more outsourced (not Tony M), and more playful.

Mintchip said:

PeteSilas said:

honest question, those of you who hated the rap, what would you have liked to see him do? keep making the same music? finding better collaborators? just curious. everyone pretty much bowed to the power of hip hop, michael jackson did, even bruce springsteen started using hip hop beats and a hip hop producer. I usually could do without it really, are those guys trying to get new fans? keep old ones? what do you think. Michael and Prince both weren't sold on hip hop for awhile so it wasn't cuz they liked it.

.

It's not so much that he bowed to hip hop, but the style of the bow. For me, Dangerous is a great album, and the beats, which I guess are more New Jack Swing than hip hop, are the best part. I guess the Heavy D cameo on Jam is the "worst" rap, but it's pretty brief, and not bad - just Heavy D. Later, when Biggie or whoever else would pop up on an MJ song, I never much minded.

.

Prince, though, felt embarrassing. The raps themselves were so aggressive: often vulgar, with no air, swing, breathing room, or ease to the words, that it all seemed fake - like he had a chip on his shoulder, and if he pushed harder we might not notice. As opposed to Dangerous, which was often minimalist, Prince's music sounded cluttered and bombastic.

.

I don't know what he could have done different. Stopped trying so hard, I guess, and scale everything back? I wish he had followed electronic music to different ends than "Loose" and "New World". I wish his resonse to grunge had been more than "Endorphinmachine", and I wish his bows to hip hop were more outsourced (not Tony M), and more playful.

How was endorphine machine a response to grunge? Never heard it that way. and since I wasn't following current music, I thought new world was a bit ahead of it's time, but like I say, I didn't pay much attention to current music. As for the rap, I usually just didn't pay it much attention, I still don't know why they did it, (springsteen,mike,prince) I mean I know they are trying to get the kids but they look silly to the fans who got them there. Some of Bruce's stuff is still pretty great but he's better than trying to use hip hop production, he's better than that.

rlittler81 said:

KingSausage said:

The High era. A lot of that stuff just sounds cheap and uninspired, especially considering that TRC was just around the corner. Everything between 3121 and AOA. Although Lotus is pretty cool and 20ten is a guilty pleasure of mine, Planet Earth and MPLSoUND are two of my least favorite Prince albums. The live bootlegs from this era didn't do much for me. The one-off songs and Internet singles aren't his strongest material. And at times it seemed like he was such a trendy thing for other celebrities to squeal about, it just made him seem even more distant to me. Not distant in a good way, like during his heyday. But distant in almost a Mick Jagger way, if you follow.

This^^

PeteSilas said:

Anything with the Game Boyz involved was a complete turn off for me. Particularly the one who continued to hang around. I like my Prince straight up no chaser. All that other stuff is a distraction. I was SO looking forward to Piano and a microphone. Tears go here.

PeteSilas said:

Mintchip said:

.

It's not so much that he bowed to hip hop, but the style of the bow. For me, Dangerous is a great album, and the beats, which I guess are more New Jack Swing than hip hop, are the best part. I guess the Heavy D cameo on Jam is the "worst" rap, but it's pretty brief, and not bad - just Heavy D. Later, when Biggie or whoever else would pop up on an MJ song, I never much minded.

.

Prince, though, felt embarrassing. The raps themselves were so aggressive: often vulgar, with no air, swing, breathing room, or ease to the words, that it all seemed fake - like he had a chip on his shoulder, and if he pushed harder we might not notice. As opposed to Dangerous, which was often minimalist, Prince's music sounded cluttered and bombastic.

.

I don't know what he could have done different. Stopped trying so hard, I guess, and scale everything back? I wish he had followed electronic music to different ends than "Loose" and "New World". I wish his resonse to grunge had been more than "Endorphinmachine", and I wish his bows to hip hop were more outsourced (not Tony M), and more playful.

How was endorphine machine a response to grunge? Never heard it that way. and since I wasn't following current music, I thought new world was a bit ahead of it's time, but like I say, I didn't pay much attention to current music. As for the rap, I usually just didn't pay it much attention, I still don't know why they did it, (springsteen,mike,prince) I mean I know they are trying to get the kids but they look silly to the fans who got them there. Some of Bruce's stuff is still pretty great but he's better than trying to use hip hop production, he's better than that.

It may not have been; that's just always how I heard it; in the sound of the fuzzy, heavy, almost sloppily distorted guitar riff. 1994, that sound was everywhere.

Likewise, New World and Human Body were both pretty on time: techno '96. I'm not criticizing; I kind of enjoy these songs, I just wish he had gone further, and maybe added some warmth and humanity to the genres.

PeteSilas said:

honest question, those of you who hated the rap, what would you have liked to see him do? keep making the same music? finding better collaborators? just curious. everyone pretty much bowed to the power of hip hop, michael jackson did, even bruce springsteen started using hip hop beats and a hip hop producer. I usually could do without it really, are those guys trying to get new fans? keep old ones? what do you think. Michael and Prince both weren't sold on hip hop for awhile so it wasn't cuz they liked it.

In those days I kind of liked rap, as it was not all this shit hop,trap rap and fuck and nigger every second minute bling bling hoochies on ice and diamonz n shit that dominated after 1994. It is just that of all the aspiring rappers and MC's in the early 1990s, Prince chose Tony M, by far one of the very worst. It would have been very different had he chosen someone who sounded like Ice Cube or at least of a Vanilla Ice level

.

It is like being offered a tray of diamonds to choose one stone and he ends up picking the muddy zirconia. It like being in a gold mine and coming back with bronze. Not just that, Tony M's rapping was very 1987/88 sounding in 1991/92 or whenever he recorded the shit (Some may be 1989 or 1990. Then later he continues on with wack rappers like 99 (Sex me! Dead like Elvis!) and Scrap D whose unmelodic cod Dr Dre flow can be heard on Da Da Da and Mr Happy, almost universally regarded as the worst filler trax on Emancipation and the shitastic (Sorry Trivial Pursuit, I am stealing your term) I rock therefore I am on C and D.

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Even when he gets a good rapper like Doug E Fresh, what does he does gives him wack lines like - Like a brand new accura! Even Eve can not save the dire the Hot wit u or Chuck D on undisputed and believe me it is HARD to dis Chuck D! But I am dissing Prince, not Chuck as I know if Chuck did his own shit on that song, it would sound very different. I think rince had like an instant Wackification ray that he sprayed on rappers when they got in the studio?

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Also a lot of us did not like the hypocrisy, Dead on it is a big diss against rap, yet by 1990 he was desparately trying to bring it in to his own records (TC Ellis anyone?) and the results are much wacker than any late 80s stuff. TC Ellis makes Tone Loc sound like Boogie Down Productions!

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Now compare this to MJ, for Dangerous, he has got Heavy D chucking some monster beats, and does his own good rap in Jam. For 1995's History he has Notorious BIG and Shaq (Ok a wack rapper, but he sounds pretty dope on 2Bad). Biggie is back on Invincible.

It is not even a comparison - Heavy D vs Tony M and Notorious BIG vs Scrap D

[Edited 7/6/16 16:36pm]

PeteSilas said:

thedance said:

For me, his weakest period is 1996-2000 (Emancipation to High)

The last decent album before this period was TGE and then he brought it back good with TRC in 2001..

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(The High recordings were probably the best of the tracks released during this period)

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Funnily enough, also had his weakest bands during this period in my opinion...

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[Edited 7/6/16 18:38pm]

Chrystal Ball until Musicology - saw prince on Musicology and started to get into him again but then Planet Earth happened (one of my least favorites - so bland) and family things took me the furthest I had ever been from Prince However, i have caught up with most of the post Planet Earth releases and definitley think this period is much stronger in general than the 1998 - 2004 period. AOA alone would have made it a better period, but also really like HnR2 and Lotusflow3r.

thanks for answering my question evryone. personally, I really know so little about rap that I can't really tell the difference between some bum rapping and the best. I guess, unlike you guys, i could block out the rapping and still like the music. I liked P-control and Joint to Joint, tried to sell my hip hop head friend on those but he wouldn't have any of it.

KingSausage said:

The High era. A lot of that stuff just sounds cheap and uninspired, especially considering that TRC was just around the corner. Everything between 3121 and AOA. Although Lotus is pretty cool and 20ten is a guilty pleasure of mine, Planet Earth and MPLSoUND are two of my least favorite Prince albums. The live bootlegs from this era didn't do much for me. The one-off songs and Internet singles aren't his strongest material. And at times it seemed like he was such a trendy thing for other celebrities to squeal about, it just made him seem even more distant to me. Not distant in a good way, like during his heyday. But distant in almost a Mick Jagger way, if you follow.

The High/NPGMC era for me too. I revisit this stuff the least because it's, well you said it perfectly - cheap and uninspired. It sounds like he's bored at PP, just pressing a few buttons and going through the motions. There's a few albums I don't rate much after TRC, but TRC seemed to end that slump, I'd say that album and getting inspired to do something different again directly led to him pushing himself commercially again with Musicology and 3121. I don't regard those as great albums either, but they're a step up from the NPGMC stuff. Even that had it's moments, but overall the sound, the production, the songwriting is his lowest ebb imo.

PeteSilas said: