luvsexy4all said:

luvgirl said:

Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear... [Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]

because he did dabble....lyrics in annastesia

Help me out here. I don't see anything in Anna Stesia that indicates the occult. Are you referring to the line "Between white and black, night and day Black night seemed like the only way... So I danced"? I don't interpret that as occultic.

tmo1965 said:

luvsexy4all said:

because he did dabble....lyrics in annastesia

Help me out here. I don't see anything in Anna Stesia that indicates the occult. Are you referring to the line "Between white and black, night and day Black night seemed like the only way... So I danced"? I don't interpret that as occultic.

Maybe the "closer to your higher self" part. It's not quite pronounced.

...make the rules, then break them all 'cause you are the best.

That's all I need to know.

PliablyPurple said:

...make the rules, then break them all 'cause you are the best.

That's all I need to know.

Yea, even if it would cost you your life...because life is "everlasting" ,you know.

This thread is completely based on opinion from the outside looking in and has absolutely nothing to do with fact. Obviously those close to Prince had no idea the struggles he had in his personal life because of how protective he was of his privacy.

None of this has anything to do with ambiguity or being duplicitous, it simply was Prince being a human being. All of us are imperfect, however threads like this are judgemental with no basis in fact yet states them as so. None of us here knew about his personal life nor was it any of our business.

Some people, including Prince, believe that life is everlasting and that this form of human existence is just one of our experiences during our lives. He is only dead to the human form, but he still lives for his next journey. If one believes that, then it is true for them and what anybody else thinks really doesn't matter.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

TheQuest said:

This thread is completely based on opinion from the outside looking in and has absolutely nothing to do with fact. Obviously those close to Prince had no idea the struggles he had in his personal life because of how protective he was of his privacy.

None of this has anything to do with ambiguity or being duplicitous, it simply was Prince being a human being. All of us are imperfect, however threads like this are judgemental with no basis in fact yet states them as so. None of us here knew about his personal life nor was it any of our business.

Are you sure that" those close to Prince had no idea of the struggles he had in his personal life"?Privacy does not grant you anything other than what your percieve your privacy to be.

Menes said:

tmo1965 said:

Help me out here. I don't see anything in Anna Stesia that indicates the occult. Are you referring to the line "Between white and black, night and day Black night seemed like the only way... So I danced"? I don't interpret that as occultic.

Maybe the "closer to your higher self" part. It's not quite pronounced.

I still don't interpret that as occultic. I would translate that into be a better person.

only thing I know about Prince and the occult is the wacky rumors i've heard over the years. Ya know, he had one that said he had hooved feets, MJ also said he thought prince's 'gift" he gave him one time a box of odd objects was some kind of curse. then we have the recent story of charlemagne saying prince levitated. Prince definitely searched different belief systems, you could call them occult but one man's occult is another man's sacred religion. Like i said before though, it's a fact that the jw's would not want any of their members talking about third eyes and astral projection or talking to dead spirits. I'm not criticizing him at all, he was free to believe how he wanted, just pointing out that the jw's don't allow much deviation.

jaawwnn said:

BillieBalloon said:

jaawwnn said:

Although I will say that what evidence do we have that he was an 'addict'? We know how he died, we know he was on prescription drugs, likely for chronic pain. You can OD without being an addict, and while we're at it what do we mean by 'addict'?

In relation to the original question, i'll say he was ambiguous and likely didn't care about his own contradictions. What he believed in 2014 was not the same was what he believed in 1994 or 1982 or the Tuesday two weeks before...

[Edited 6/22/16 8:59am]

Because his team had called in an addiction expert, Dr Kornfeld.

LOL oh man, I walked into that one

I had totally forgotten that, I was just thinking of him as a drug expert.

[Edited 6/22/16 12:27pm]

purplethunder3121 said:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Amen to this.

Menes said:

tmo1965 said:

Help me out here. I don't see anything in Anna Stesia that indicates the occult. Are you referring to the line "Between white and black, night and day Black night seemed like the only way... So I danced"? I don't interpret that as occultic.

Maybe the "closer to your higher self" part. It's not quite pronounced.

closer to heaven, closer to God.


What in the world are you talking about?

jaawwnn said:

BillieBalloon said:

jaawwnn said: Because his team had called in an addiction expert, Dr Kornfeld.

LOL oh man, I walked into that one

I had totally forgotten that, I was just thinking of him as a drug expert.

[Edited 6/22/16 12:27pm]

He wasn't just an addiction expert.

From his website:

Dr. Howard Kornfeld, a nationally recognized pain management specialist and medical doctor, has helped hundreds of people deal more effectively with chronic pain. Dr. Kornfeld and his team at Recovery Without Walls design a personalized program for each patient, utilizing the latest research on advanced pharmacology,exceptional psychotherapy and integrative healing methods. Recovery Without Walls has helped patients suffering from: back pain, fibromyalgia, neuropathic (nerve) pain, cancer pain, arthritis and many other chronic pain conditions.

Bunsterdk said:

It sounds to me as if the OP wants to be negative. Yes, there are discrepancies in what we think we know. But I think there is a lot we don't know that would explain things. And I don't think that explanation would be negative as such. I just think it's totally none of our business. And some of the discrepancies are just bogus as he couldn't for instance very well go back and change his past when he changed his views on sex outside of marriage. Yes, it appears as if he was going against his chosen religion. Yet he was still an active "member" in good standing when he died, and believe me there are no special allowances for famous people with a lot of money or whatever conspiracy theory can be thought up. We don't have all the facts, and I think we are missing more facts than we even begin to imagine. Bottom line for me: He was my spiritual brother and that really matters to me. It's not just words. I love him dearly even though I don't understand everything that was going on. Others did who know much more and I trust that. I realise many here won't accept it as easily, but this is the JW way. I am not naive, but I have learned through decades of experience to put my trust in the way things are handled, even when it puzzles me. Prince was human. He had issues. He lived a very strange life. And these are just some of the very important facts that we do know. Each of them are enough to explain quite a lot of discrepancies, when you think about it.

Imagine that, you have an opinion and it becomes, "negative". What great ears you have to hear such a thing. Shame it sounds that way to you.

Well, the person who is happy to exihibit,should understand that he himself is an exhibition. There is no privacy when you are a celebrity. This is a farce. You take the good with the bad when you get into this business. You may think it's totally none of your business, but you are here, on this site. You are making it your business in one form or another.

Of course he was human, but this is not the question. Some people can very well capitalize on a persona and are intentionally ambiguous for that purpose. Others, live a duplicitous life and hide it. He was known by everyone yet knew no one in the end. Such was his duplicity. If he is(as opposed to was) your spirtual brother and you love him, I salute you. I have no such thoughts of spirutal brotherhood, nor did I love him. He was just the best musician I had personally encountered.

Menes said:

CherryMoon57 said:

How do you know? Were you there? Have you noticed that he started to "claim it as a sin" during the same era during which he turned his life around and became more spiritual / religious. Putting these two anachronistic statements together without any evidences would be the same as lying or spreading rumors.

When do you believe he turned his life around and became more spritual/religious? Was it when he was a Seventh Day Adventist believer? Was it when he "converted"and became a JW?

Where do you think he got his religious tenants from? Do you think he made them up as he got older? They are the same tenants he had when he was young.

He was quite grounded in traditional doctrinces of the "church", which was a far contrast to the life he lived privately. Squrimish isn't it?

He always intended sexuality to be linked to worship of whatever being he thought was God. Do you remember the time when he came out quite forcefully against gay marriage? Do you know why he said that in 2008? Do you remember his views on adultery? As perverted as he was is as conservative as he was. There is no secret that he did not condone sex before marriage but we know he didnt practice what he preached. Who do you think is spreading rumors? Were you touring? Interesting.

It happened gradually but with a definite change around 1999-2000. He mentions it himself in interviews (https://www.youtube.com/w...8mg7CxAYUM) and from then he often talked about his renewed and deeper commitments to God and the reasons behind that decision. I don't know how long you have been following his career but there are clear evidences (in lyrics and onstage performances) that he had seriously committed to his faith, for example he had stopped swearing in public and as you said he was preaching a lot instead of talking about sex all the time like he used to. What went on behind closed doors is none of our business, and I think Prince was taking his faith very seriously, all his lyrics from 2000 onwards reflect that, and you certainly cannot base your judgements on what you have no proof of. Your assumptions that he never practiced what he preached is totally unfounded. He actually worked really hard to make a lof changes in his life and there were many evidences of this. I think the man already dealt with so much in his life, and contributed to help and improve the lives of many others, isn't it time he finally gets the peace that he deserves?

Menes said:

luvgirl said:

Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear... [Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]

I think we can ascertain what dabbling in the occult is without having to watch a crazy Youtube video . If you profress Jehovah as your God, then numerology, astrology, esoteric knwoledge, studying the mystery schools of Egypt, the teachings of Immanuel Kant and idealism ,are all contrary to his professed "faith". It's not for me to decide what is wrong or right, but facts are facts. As I said before , even after having knowledge of the "truth" (according to him), the aforementioned practices would be in direct contrast to his own religious beliefs. I could give you some more severe contradictions than that, but you probably would dismiss it as a crazy conspiracy. The question still remains, is it ambiguity or duplicity?

I hope it's ambiguity but in my heart of hearts I believe it to be duplicity, and not just with him but with other people in his groups. I have my own reasons for believing it. It, however, matters little what I believe...it only matters what God knows to be the truth. AND, I don't believe he found the truth in the JW's and I think he knew he hadn't. I think the truth was in Christianity, and I really don't think he in the end believed in the JW's lack of acknowledgement of Jesus. And that's what I hope, and I really hope in those last minutes or days he found the truth. Up to that point, I believe he was completely duplictious. And encouraged the same from others.

TheQuest said:

This thread is completely based on opinion from the outside looking in and has absolutely nothing to do with fact. Obviously those close to Prince had no idea the struggles he had in his personal life because of how protective he was of his privacy.

None of this has anything to do with ambiguity or being duplicitous, it simply was Prince being a human being. All of us are imperfect, however threads like this are judgemental with no basis in fact yet states them as so. None of us here knew about his personal life nor was it any of our business.

opinion. What's wrong with an opinion. None of our opinions really matter anyways. The only thing that matter is the truth as GOD almighty sees it.

CherryMoon57 said:

Menes said:

When do you believe he turned his life around and became more spritual/religious? Was it when he was a Seventh Day Adventist believer? Was it when he "converted"and became a JW?

Where do you think he got his religious tenants from? Do you think he made them up as he got older? They are the same tenants he had when he was young.

He was quite grounded in traditional doctrinces of the "church", which was a far contrast to the life he lived privately. Squrimish isn't it?

He always intended sexuality to be linked to worship of whatever being he thought was God. Do you remember the time when he came out quite forcefully against gay marriage? Do you know why he said that in 2008? Do you remember his views on adultery? As perverted as he was is as conservative as he was. There is no secret that he did not condone sex before marriage but we know he didnt practice what he preached. Who do you think is spreading rumors? Were you touring? Interesting.

It happened gradually but with a definite change around 1999-2000. He mentions it himself in interviews (https://www.youtube.com/w...8mg7CxAYUM) and from then he often talked about his renewed and deeper commitments to God and the reasons behind that decision. I don't know how long you have been following his career but there are clear evidences (in lyrics and onstage performances) that he had seriously committed to his faith, for example he had stopped swearing in public and as you said he was preaching a lot instead of talking about sex all the time like he used to. What went on behind closed doors is none of our business, and I think Prince was taking his faith very seriously, all his lyrics from 2000 onwards reflect that, and you certainly cannot base your judgements on what you have no proof of. Your assumptions that he never practiced what he preached is totally unfounded. He actually worked really hard to make a lof changes in his life and there were many evidences of this. I think the man already dealt with so much in his life, and contributed to help and improve the lives of many others, isn't it time he finally gets the peace that he deserves?

The text clearly states ..."there is no secret that he did not condone sex before marriage but we know he didn't practice what he preached". This is in reference to that. Do you believe he had sex before marriage? Perhaps he didn't swear in public or sing perverted parts of his songs anymore, but he would still play it, and you could sing it to your heart's content. Do you believe any of these songs would be in direct conflict with his("faith" /deeper commitment") when he knocks on a door for the purpose of "saving" lives? Maybe there is a pattern here that we dont want to deal with. It is possible he had a deeper commitment to God, but this doesnt mean he wasn't leading a double life.

People do it all the time. Do you believe he just started taking opiates the night/morning of April 14-15th? I dont think so.

How long have I been following his career? A long time. How long have you been involved in his career in any way, shape or form? It's just a conversation.

Menes said:

CherryMoon57 said:

It happened gradually but with a definite change around 1999-2000. He mentions it himself in interviews (https://www.youtube.com/w...8mg7CxAYUM) and from then he often talked about his renewed and deeper commitments to God and the reasons behind that decision. I don't know how long you have been following his career but there are clear evidences (in lyrics and onstage performances) that he had seriously committed to his faith, for example he had stopped swearing in public and as you said he was preaching a lot instead of talking about sex all the time like he used to. What went on behind closed doors is none of our business, and I think Prince was taking his faith very seriously, all his lyrics from 2000 onwards reflect that, and you certainly cannot base your judgements on what you have no proof of. Your assumptions that he never practiced what he preached is totally unfounded. He actually worked really hard to make a lof changes in his life and there were many evidences of this. I think the man already dealt with so much in his life, and contributed to help and improve the lives of many others, isn't it time he finally gets the peace that he deserves?

The text clearly states ..."there is no secret that he did not condone sex before marriage but we know he didn't practice what he preached". This is in reference to that. Do you believe he had sex before marriage? Perhaps he didn't swear in public or sing perverted parts of his songs anymore, but he would still play it, and you could sing it to your heart's content. Do you believe any of these songs would be in direct conflict with his("faith" /deeper commitment") when he knocks on a door for the purpose of "saving" lives? Maybe there is a pattern here that we dont want to deal with. It is possible he had a deeper commitment to God, but this doesnt mean he wasn't leading a double life.

People do it all the time. Do you believe he just started taking opiates the night/morning of April 14-15th? I dont think so.

How long have I been following his career? A long time. How long have you been involved in his career in any way, shape or form? It's just a conversation.

In 2014 he stated in an article that he was celibate.

Again, I'm asking you what in the world are you talking about? Were you living in his underwear to know what he was doing when?

Menes said:

Which is it?

I remember the first time I heard about Prince's possible link to Fentanyl. It wasn't from the medical examiners office or the Sheriff's investigation. It was the infamous "Dr.D" , who on April 23rd, gave us a glimpse into Prince's addictive behavior. That was a mere (2) days after Prince's death. It was dismissed as all lies and propaganda. Part of the truth is out now. He was an addict , yet ,despised drug use.

1. His secret licensing/distribution/publishing deal with Warner as a subsidary even after swearing them off. Hard to stay away from those who you claim wish to control your music.

2. He implored artist to remove songs from streaming services but signed with Tidal, a streaming service. Tidal is quite similar to the Apple/Spotify format if you understand the revenue matrix.

3. He stated that" he deals with everything thru music, but it's not to promote anything or get the admiration of fans or friends". Well said after 300 million dollars in revenue.

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".

5. Sex before marriage.... He claimed it as a sin, yet, indulged in it like no other.

6. Samples.. He hated samples , yet used them consistently in his songs and live performances.

7. He was lonely, yet relish the thought of being alone. So much more could be said. So which is it?

Ugh this crap everything U have said says WAY more about Ur own self than it does Prince. This is Ur perception of him and not a very apt one IMO. U have Ur opinion I have mine. I just have to point out U seem more concerned with the man's personal life and not so much the music.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

The text clearly states ..."there is no secret that he did not condone sex before marriage but we know he didn't practice what he preached". This is in reference to that. Do you believe he had sex before marriage? Perhaps he didn't swear in public or sing perverted parts of his songs anymore, but he would still play it, and you could sing it to your heart's content. Do you believe any of these songs would be in direct conflict with his("faith" /deeper commitment") when he knocks on a door for the purpose of "saving" lives? Maybe there is a pattern here that we dont want to deal with. It is possible he had a deeper commitment to God, but this doesnt mean he wasn't leading a double life.

People do it all the time. Do you believe he just started taking opiates the night/morning of April 14-15th? I dont think so.

How long have I been following his career? A long time. How long have you been involved in his career in any way, shape or form? It's just a conversation.

In 2014 he stated in an article that he was celibate.

Again, I'm asking you what in the world are you talking about? Were you living in his underwear to know what he was doing when?

The original post is quite clear. It is a question. There are numerous examples that relates to either ambiguity or duplicity. As to your underwear comment....thats interesting. Were you in the studio when he wrote any of these songs? How do you know he wrote them? Is it because he told you so? I assume you have first hand knowledge? If you dont, why do you believe it? The imagination and the natural senses cannot be gratified at the same time. It's just a conversation.

Menes said:

Who hasn't been "duplicitous" or ambiguous? Geniuses are not gods, they're human beings with godlike talents. Some were straighter arrows than others, but few took on as much as Prince did.

[Edited 6/22/16 16:03pm]

Menes said:

morningsong said:

In 2014 he stated in an article that he was celibate.

Again, I'm asking you what in the world are you talking about? Were you living in his underwear to know what he was doing when?

The original post is quite clear. It is a question. There are numerous examples that relates to either ambiguity or duplicity. As to your underwear comment....thats interesting. Were you in the studio when he wrote any of these songs? How do you know he wrote them? Is it because he told you so? I assume you have first hand knowledge? If you dont, why do you believe it? The imagination and the natural senses cannot be gratified at the same time. It's just a conversation.

Well as far as the studio thing, maybe because of several other eyewitness accounts. I mean we can go all day with the how do you know if you weren't there isms. But between him actually saying he was celibate and had been for years, and the fact that no one else has said he wasn't, then your accusations are only a personal opinion and are not based on any fact . Now someone has already stated that such a thing says more about you than him. Next question: Who are you?

Bunsterdk said:

Menes said:

If he is(as opposed to was) your spirtual brother and you love him, I salute you. I have no such thoughts of spirutal brotherhood, nor did I love him. He was just the best musician I had personally encountered.

Love doesn't end with death. That's why there's grief. I still love my uncle who died almost a year ago. And I still think of him as my uncle. You really do try to twist everything, don't you? Other than that I won't reply to your posts. They seem very judgemental and prejudiced. PRN has given us his all - more than I wish he had - and he owes no explanation to any of us. I won't launch into a debate on beliefs here. There is a forum for that and I'm on the org to talk about Prince. Sometimes that involves religion to try to understand him better, but general doctrine as such IMHO isn't for this forum. So once again I refer to jw.org for those wanting to know what jw really believe. And no, I don't get a better house in paradise if you visit the website. LOL [Edited 6/22/16 16:03pm]

That's interesting. " Posts that seem Judgemental and prejudiced" he/she says. Ill be sure to visit that JW website and say hello sometime.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

The original post is quite clear. It is a question. There are numerous examples that relates to either ambiguity or duplicity. As to your underwear comment....thats interesting. Were you in the studio when he wrote any of these songs? How do you know he wrote them? Is it because he told you so? I assume you have first hand knowledge? If you dont, why do you believe it? The imagination and the natural senses cannot be gratified at the same time. It's just a conversation.

Well as far as the studio thing, maybe because of several other eyewitness accounts. I mean we can go all day with the how do you know if you weren't there isms. But between him actually saying he was celibate and had been for years, and the fact that no one else has said he wasn't, then your accusations are only a personal opinion and are not based on any fact . Now someone has already stated that such a thing says more about you than him. Next question: Who are you?

Menes. NIce to meet you.

Menes said:

morningsong said:

Well as far as the studio thing, maybe because of several other eyewitness accounts. I mean we can go all day with the how do you know if you weren't there isms. But between him actually saying he was celibate and had been for years, and the fact that no one else has said he wasn't, then your accusations are only a personal opinion and are not based on any fact . Now someone has already stated that such a thing says more about you than him. Next question: Who are you?

Menes. NIce to meet you.

I'll reserve judgement on that.

Still have no idea what your point is.