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Thread started 06/03/16 9:51pm

Krystalkisses

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Prince the Gemini

To me, Prince is the protypical Gemini...the duality, the quickness, the intelligence, the childlike nature...does anyone else feel this way? He made me love Geminis....I always wanted to have a June baby (although I'm sure they would always try to pull one over on me and push me to my limits) but there is a sweet charm to Geminis that you just can't deny and Prince displayed that throughout his life....he was such a complex individual and I will miss that....smile

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Reply #1 posted 06/03/16 10:27pm

Junglehop

I'm a Gemini, born June 5, and my surname is Nielson... so as far as I was concerned, Prince was my soul twin!

i always felt an affinity with him and his duality.
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Reply #2 posted 06/03/16 10:39pm

Krystalkisses

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Junglehop said:

I'm a Gemini, born June 5, and my surname is Nielson... so as far as I was concerned, Prince was my soul twin! i always felt an affinity with him and his duality.

Happy upcoming birthday! biggrin

I will never truely understand you geminis...but by being a fellow "air" sign myself (libra) I feel like I get where you are coming from a lot of the time...but I truely always felt like you guys were leaps and bounds ahead of me.... I admire you all and you have a lot to teach....Prince was so ahead of his time...it is almost dizzying how fast he was...true to Gemini form...you guys are a in a legue of your own..

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Reply #3 posted 06/04/16 12:41am

MissMarySharon

I'm a Gemini, June 11th. Well, sometimes I don't understand myself lol. I definitely have two sides to my nature - one part sociable, the other introverted. I have a very active mind, a lot of nervous energy and a great curiosity about many topics. What I hate most about myself is that I am always starting activities but then lose interest and don't see them through! I see this in Prince, as he often abandoned projects and would flit from one thing to another. I love to debate and analyse, maybe in Prince this trait came out in his religious beliefs and so on. In relationships I don't think I'm very Gemini as I am loyal and faithful...Prince's ladies would probably say his wandering eye was a Gemini trait!

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Reply #4 posted 06/04/16 1:59am

RachB65

Im an astrologer and i agree!! Most everything ive heard or know bout Prince completely fits the sign
"Almost all art is trying to become an anaesthetic and at the same time a healing session drawing up the magical electrics.”
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Reply #5 posted 06/04/16 6:45am

sunset3121

MissMarySharon said:

I'm a Gemini, June 11th. Well, sometimes I don't understand myself lol. I definitely have two sides to my nature - one part sociable, the other introverted. I have a very active mind, a lot of nervous energy and a great curiosity about many topics. What I hate most about myself is that I am always starting activities but then lose interest and don't see them through! I see this in Prince, as he often abandoned projects and would flit from one thing to another. I love to debate and analyse, maybe in Prince this trait came out in his religious beliefs and so on. In relationships I don't think I'm very Gemini as I am loyal and faithful...Prince's ladies would probably say his wandering eye was a Gemini trait!

I am a Gemini, married to a Gemini (7th June birthday) and daughter of a Gemini. The Gemini's I know are loyal and faithful. I don't think his behaviour can be blamed on a star sign.

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Reply #6 posted 06/04/16 7:15am

txladykat

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MissMarySharon said:

I'm a Gemini, June 11th. Well, sometimes I don't understand myself lol. I definitely have two sides to my nature - one part sociable, the other introverted. I have a very active mind, a lot of nervous energy and a great curiosity about many topics. What I hate most about myself is that I am always starting activities but then lose interest and don't see them through! I see this in Prince, as he often abandoned projects and would flit from one thing to another. I love to debate and analyse, maybe in Prince this trait came out in his religious beliefs and so on. In relationships I don't think I'm very Gemini as I am loyal and faithful...Prince's ladies would probably say his wandering eye was a Gemini trait!



Me too! June 11 and similar traits.
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Reply #7 posted 06/04/16 8:10am

geetee71

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MissMarySharon said:

I'm a Gemini, June 11th. Well, sometimes I don't understand myself lol. I definitely have two sides to my nature - one part sociable, the other introverted. I have a very active mind, a lot of nervous energy and a great curiosity about many topics. What I hate most about myself is that I am always starting activities but then lose interest and don't see them through! I see this in Prince, as he often abandoned projects and would flit from one thing to another. I love to debate and analyse, maybe in Prince this trait came out in his religious beliefs and so on. In relationships I don't think I'm very Gemini as I am loyal and faithful...Prince's ladies would probably say his wandering eye was a Gemini trait!


.
June 8th Gemini here and whilst I'm not a huge believer in astrology this is me completely. My best friend is a Gemini too and we're very similar in many respects. Plus, as you say, many of these traits were very apparent in Prince too.
.
Also very loyal and faithful, so maybe that is a Gemini trait after all...?
.
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Reply #8 posted 06/04/16 8:11am

Guitarhero

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Reply #9 posted 06/04/16 8:57am

babynoz

Krystalkisses said:

To me, Prince is the protypical Gemini...the duality, the quickness, the intelligence, the childlike nature...does anyone else feel this way? He made me love Geminis....I always wanted to have a June baby (although I'm sure they would always try to pull one over on me and push me to my limits) but there is a sweet charm to Geminis that you just can't deny and Prince displayed that throughout his life....he was such a complex individual and I will miss that....smile



I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.

Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #10 posted 06/04/16 9:40am

MissMarySharon

geetee71 said:

MissMarySharon said:

I'm a Gemini, June 11th. Well, sometimes I don't understand myself lol. I definitely have two sides to my nature - one part sociable, the other introverted. I have a very active mind, a lot of nervous energy and a great curiosity about many topics. What I hate most about myself is that I am always starting activities but then lose interest and don't see them through! I see this in Prince, as he often abandoned projects and would flit from one thing to another. I love to debate and analyse, maybe in Prince this trait came out in his religious beliefs and so on. In relationships I don't think I'm very Gemini as I am loyal and faithful...Prince's ladies would probably say his wandering eye was a Gemini trait!


.
June 8th Gemini here and whilst I'm not a huge believer in astrology this is me completely. My best friend is a Gemini too and we're very similar in many respects. Plus, as you say, many of these traits were very apparent in Prince too.
.
Also very loyal and faithful, so maybe that is a Gemini trait after all...?
.


Yes of course. I was thinking of the general statements about Gemini in books, where it often brands us as being flighty and unfaithful, which is annoying to me since I'm not like that either!
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Reply #11 posted 06/04/16 11:03am

bondno9

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MissMarySharon said:

I'm a Gemini, June 11th. Well, sometimes I don't understand myself lol. I definitely have two sides to my nature - one part sociable, the other introverted. I have a very active mind, a lot of nervous energy and a great curiosity about many topics. What I hate most about myself is that I am always starting activities but then lose interest and don't see them through! I see this in Prince, as he often abandoned projects and would flit from one thing to another. I love to debate and analyse, maybe in Prince this trait came out in his religious beliefs and so on. In relationships I don't think I'm very Gemini as I am loyal and faithful...Prince's ladies would probably say his wandering eye was a Gemini trait!

I'm June 12th biggrin

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Reply #12 posted 06/04/16 11:12am

steakfinger

If you follow astrology based on what the sky looked like when you were born (as astrology is intended), then procession has altered the dates. The modern dates are as follows:

Capricorn - Jan 20 to Feb 16
Aquarius - Feb 16 to Mar 11
Pisces - Mar 11 to Apr 18
Aries - Apr 18 to May 13
Taurus - May 13 to Jun 21
Gemini - Jun 21 to Jul 20
Cancer - Jul 20 to Aug 10
Leo - Aug 10 to Sep 16
Virgo - Sep 16 to Oct 30
Libra - Oct 30 to Nov 23
Scorpius - Nov 23 to Nov 29
Ophiuchus - Nov 29 to Dec 17
Sagittarius - Dec 17 to Jan 20

Prince was not a Gemini and neither are most folks using the old dates. As astrology is complete nonsense it doesn't really matter, but I thought I'd share.

For more: http://www.livescience.com/4667-astrological-sign.html#sthash.0upoelpT.dpuf

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Reply #13 posted 06/04/16 11:19am

OldFriends4Sal
e

Junglehop said:

I'm a Gemini, born June 5, and my surname is Nielson... so as far as I was concerned, Prince was my soul twin! i always felt an affinity with him and his duality.

I'm June 5th too, wow tomorrow.
My dad is June 3rd, my older brother June 6th

My mom had a hard time lol

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Reply #14 posted 06/04/16 12:35pm

Disconcertinge
yes

I'm a Gemini too..May 29 and so is my mom June 4th. Fellow Twins..unite!😉
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Reply #15 posted 06/04/16 12:36pm

Disconcertinge
yes

Happy birthday tomorrow Old friend for sale.
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Reply #16 posted 06/04/16 12:39pm

babynoz

Disconcertingeyes said:

I'm a Gemini too..May 29 and so is my mom June 4th. Fellow Twins..unite!😉



More Gems! cool


As I said, I'm June 1st. My son is May 25th, my brother was May 27th, my father was June 7th, my grandfather, June 5th, my godfather, June 11th, my ex, hub, June 11th.


Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #17 posted 06/04/16 12:46pm

jazzvirtuoso

Yep, gemini here too. June teenth baby! lol
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Reply #18 posted 06/04/16 12:53pm

TheDigitalGard
ener

I'm a Gemini, and I think it's all a load of old cock.

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Reply #19 posted 06/04/16 12:57pm

babynoz

TheDigitalGardener said:

I'm a Gemini, and I think it's all a load of old cock.



We don't know wtf a load of old cock is though, lol

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #20 posted 06/04/16 1:01pm

sunset3121

babynoz said:

Krystalkisses said:

To me, Prince is the protypical Gemini...the duality, the quickness, the intelligence, the childlike nature...does anyone else feel this way? He made me love Geminis....I always wanted to have a June baby (although I'm sure they would always try to pull one over on me and push me to my limits) but there is a sweet charm to Geminis that you just can't deny and Prince displayed that throughout his life....he was such a complex individual and I will miss that....smile



I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.

Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.

That doesn't fit us either. Both me and my husband and my Dad have lots of stamina and endurance. Hubby was a long distance runner (competative) and later a long distance cyclist. We both enjoy cycling holidays around Europe. I was a dancer and swimmer and again did better at the longer distances than the short ones. My husband always slept very little (around 4 or 5 hours a night). I used to sleep 7 hours but I sleep less and less and now it is around 4 hours, 5 max.

I guess there are a lot of differences between Geminis.

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Reply #21 posted 06/04/16 1:02pm

RachB65

babynoz said:



Krystalkisses said:


To me, Prince is the protypical Gemini...the duality, the quickness, the intelligence, the childlike nature...does anyone else feel this way? He made me love Geminis....I always wanted to have a June baby (although I'm sure they would always try to pull one over on me and push me to my limits) but there is a sweet charm to Geminis that you just can't deny and Prince displayed that throughout his life....he was such a complex individual and I will miss that....smile





I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.



Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.


Thanks for all the natal info...i used to do birth charts...Not surprising his rising is in Scorpio...Much of his high level of energy n endurance is a Scorp trait...Pisces moon is def dreamy, out there and self deceiving. Its prob the key placement and weakness for any addictions...His sun plus moon and ascendant all make him a bullshitter..., living in his own little world, obsessed with sex death and spirituality...
Anyway, im a Scorpio and scared of all u Geminis, lol..The one sign ive never been able to completely understand in over 25 yrs studying people n astrology..I do know you Gems got a great sense of humor and always make me laugh... biggrin
"Almost all art is trying to become an anaesthetic and at the same time a healing session drawing up the magical electrics.”
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Reply #22 posted 06/04/16 1:10pm

babynoz

sunset3121 said:

babynoz said:



I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.

Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.

That doesn't fit us either. Both me and my husband and my Dad have lots of stamina and endurance. Hubby was a long distance runner (competative) and later a long distance cyclist. We both enjoy cycling holidays around Europe. I was a dancer and swimmer and again did better at the longer distances than the short ones. My husband always slept very little (around 4 or 5 hours a night). I used to sleep 7 hours but I sleep less and less and now it is around 4 hours, 5 max.

I guess there are a lot of differences between Geminis.



Great....I'd love to see your charts because sun signs never tell the whole story. A strong placement of Mars in the chart or strong aspects to Aries or Taurus suggest physical strength and endurance.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #23 posted 06/04/16 1:23pm

babynoz

RachB65 said:

babynoz said:



I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.

Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.

Thanks for all the natal info...i used to do birth charts...Not surprising his rising is in Scorpio...Much of his high level of energy n endurance is a Scorp trait...Pisces moon is def dreamy, out there and self deceiving. Its prob the key placement and weakness for any addictions...His sun plus moon and ascendant all make him a bullshitter..., living in his own little world, obsessed with sex death and spirituality... Anyway, im a Scorpio and scared of all u Geminis, lol..The one sign ive never been able to completely understand in over 25 yrs studying people n astrology..I do know you Gems got a great sense of humor and always make me laugh... biggrin



Good points.

I really think that Pluto is his chart ruler. It's the most powerful planet in his chart by placement and aspects. He even used Plutonian keywords in naming his bands The Revolution and the New Power Generation.

His most poweful movie, Purple Rain is full of Plutonian themes and imagery too. Death and transformation, sex and regeneration, power trips, ruthlessness, and ultimate redemption through sacrifice to name a few. Irreversible, revolutionary transformation are the highest Plutonian traits.

I wish I still had time to do charts but I remember his quite well because it's pretty complex.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #24 posted 06/04/16 2:00pm

RachB65

babynoz said:



RachB65 said:


babynoz said:




I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.



Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.



Thanks for all the natal info...i used to do birth charts...Not surprising his rising is in Scorpio...Much of his high level of energy n endurance is a Scorp trait...Pisces moon is def dreamy, out there and self deceiving. Its prob the key placement and weakness for any addictions...His sun plus moon and ascendant all make him a bullshitter..., living in his own little world, obsessed with sex death and spirituality... Anyway, im a Scorpio and scared of all u Geminis, lol..The one sign ive never been able to completely understand in over 25 yrs studying people n astrology..I do know you Gems got a great sense of humor and always make me laugh... biggrin



Good points.

I really think that Pluto is his chart ruler. It's the most powerful planet in his chart by placement and aspects. He even used Plutonian keywords in naming his bands The Revolution and the New Power Generation.

His most poweful movie, Purple Rain is full of Plutonian themes and imagery too. Death and transformation, sex and regeneration, power trips, ruthlessness, and ultimate redemption through sacrifice to name a few. Irreversible, revolutionary transformation are the highest Plutonian traits.

I wish I still had time to do charts but I remember his quite well because it's pretty complex.


That is all very interesting and so true!! Yea, doing charts is time consuming n kind of a waste of time, especially these days when u can get a basic one done online for free then go research what it all means yourself..

[Edited 6/4/16 14:01pm]
[Edited 6/4/16 14:03pm]
"Almost all art is trying to become an anaesthetic and at the same time a healing session drawing up the magical electrics.”
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Reply #25 posted 06/04/16 3:25pm

babynoz

RachB65 said:

babynoz said:



Good points.

I really think that Pluto is his chart ruler. It's the most powerful planet in his chart by placement and aspects. He even used Plutonian keywords in naming his bands The Revolution and the New Power Generation.

His most poweful movie, Purple Rain is full of Plutonian themes and imagery too. Death and transformation, sex and regeneration, power trips, ruthlessness, and ultimate redemption through sacrifice to name a few. Irreversible, revolutionary transformation are the highest Plutonian traits.

I wish I still had time to do charts but I remember his quite well because it's pretty complex.

That is all very interesting and so true!! Yea, doing charts is time consuming n kind of a waste of time, especially these days when u can get a basic one done online for free then go research what it all means yourself..
[Edited 6/4/16 14:01pm] [Edited 6/4/16 14:03pm]



And thank heaven for that because we used to have to draw them by hand. disbelief lol

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #26 posted 06/04/16 11:39pm

Krystalkisses

avatar

babynoz said:

Krystalkisses said:

To me, Prince is the protypical Gemini...the duality, the quickness, the intelligence, the childlike nature...does anyone else feel this way? He made me love Geminis....I always wanted to have a June baby (although I'm sure they would always try to pull one over on me and push me to my limits) but there is a sweet charm to Geminis that you just can't deny and Prince displayed that throughout his life....he was such a complex individual and I will miss that....smile



I'm June 1st. Nice to see lots of Gems here. biggrin

There are actually a few things about Prince that are not really typical of Geminis. Those anomalies are what made me curious to read his chart several years ago.

He does have some of the usual Gemini traits but his rising sign is Scorpio and he has Pluto powerfully placed at his MC. His preoccupation with power, sex and death themes throughout his work bears that out. Most Geminis are nowhere near as intense as Prince either. He seems much more Plutonian than Mercurial IMO.

Secondly, he expresses his Pisces moon quite a bit also. Typical Gems don't emote nearly as effectively as Prince does. Gems tend to be more comfortable in the cerebral realm and prefer to detatch themselves from excessive emotions, which they consider messy. I imagine the internal conflict that would arise from those competing energies would be a window into some of his complexities.

Also if you look at his energy level and stamina he is soooo NOT Gemini, lol

Gems are often capable of quick bursts of energy, after which they need a loooong rest. Endurance is not a Gemini trait. Prince did that consistently with little rest or sleep for most of his life. It's the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner....Prince was the latter. He had Mars in Aries in house 5.

Just a few examples.

I really apprechiate your insight. Yet Prince's Scorpio Ascendent totally explains his intensity, sexiness, aloofness...it does seem Pluto does play a powerful role in his chart. Death and regeneration would explain the many times he reinvented his image and style of music-he was like a pheniox....which is associated with that planet.

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Reply #27 posted 06/05/16 3:32am

nursev

My son is a Gemini and I've been watching his two sides all his life...u guys are truly unique lol my best friend is one too.
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Reply #28 posted 06/06/16 4:09pm

214

I'm Gemini June first, and i have the both sides and it's not such a great thing, i have the wicked part and the good one; and it's always such a battle.

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Reply #29 posted 06/06/16 4:45pm

tahirih

Does anyone know what time Prince was born. Was it on his birth certificate?

[Edited 6/6/16 17:06pm]

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