benni said:

Eileen said:

If you do run across that other piece or other pertinent info yes post, I'll read.

So far as the use/abuse jargon, yes I caught that in my first pass. But the ME had already judged it Toxicity (acute I presumed) so I was stopping there. Goes back to the minimalism of the report... I have no idea how much use (history) they might have evidence of or are concerned with, but I can't imagine the ME would have including any 'editorializing' type diagnosis in this case unless there was no other cause of death to list. They had an acute event responsible, they were good to go. This is still MN and he's still Prince and it wasn't even Hennepin County ME (the city), it's suburban/rural. Plus I think the original CC Sheriff's statement was a warning shot across the bow to other offices as to the degree of discretion expected.

The issues we're discussing are probably why they handled the announcement the way they did, even. Have the world download the document attached to a statement that says, we aren't answering any questions so don't even try. They didn't want to have to address queries like, "Does this mean no other narcotics were present in the body? Is that what you're saying here?"

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the minimalism in the report, I accept it as is. However the issues and learnings involved are still very interesting to consider.

I will post anything that I find. There are still too many variables that are unanswered and what is unanswered can lead you on a merry chase with more and more questions that arise. For me, I have a hard time believing addiction to fentanyl, because I cannot see that man putting out the volume of works he did, put out the kind of music he did, battling an addiction like that. Not to mention that there would have been more incidents of missed tour dates, missed obligations, etc. And the volume of his travels and tours in recent times would have been effected much sooner by the addiction, than just the April 7th show cancellation and the plane incident reported on the 14th. I really do believe the fentanyl was a recent development. There are many artists, of course, that were addicted to other illegal/legal substances that continued to work, however, there were extreme indications that they were using substances (missing tour dates, wide-spread reports of their substance abuse, actions that reflected they were "high", etc.). All of that was missing with Prince. I think that is one of the things that makes all of this so surreal, because IF he was addicted, he was not a typical addict.

And it is possible that if their desire to protect Prince they took a minimalist approach, but legally, can they do that?

Yeah, I've been taking this into consideration, and it would seem that this is recent. Still don't know though.

EmancipationLover said:

benni said:

I never made the claim that he worked with fentanyl, and neither did the article. The article was about drug related deaths in general, and the difficulty with determining a drug overdose death. You are nitpicking about my comment (and Eileen's) about our statements regarding the articles claim about "much of what is known about drug related deaths comes from the 25 years of research performed by Dr. Karch". That was a shocking claim

.

You can copy-paste parts of this article 100 times, it does not take away the facts that

.

1) the claim derived from the article that the forensics of drug abuse is traced back to the scientific work of a single scientist (Karch) is utterly false. I have exemplified this by demonstrating the Karch has, for instance, never published any work regarding fentanyl, which is (for obvious reasons) the focus of this discussion;

.

2) the claim derived from 1) that this is not exact science is therefore utterly false either.

.

I just wanted to clarify this. However, if it helps you in some way to invent wild speculations regarding the validity of the published death certificate, then so be it.

As for #2:

According to a congressionally mandated report released last week, the term "forensic science" is a misnomer because many of the disciplines don't deserve to be called science at all.

In what former Allegheny County coroner Dr. Cyril H. Wecht called "a revolutionary event in the field of forensic science," the National Academy of Sciences announced the results of a long-awaited study of forensic crime-solving techniques -- and it wasn't kind.

The report called for a federal overseer to set standards for crime labs and called into question the use of many common practices.

"With the exception of nuclear DNA analysis, however, no forensic method has been rigorously shown to have the capacity to consistently, and with a high degree of certainty, demonstrate a connection between evidence and a specific individual or source," the report states, later questioning, "whether -- and to what extent -- there is science in any given forensic science discipline."

As for #1: Again, the article (nor I) ever made the claim that he had published anything on fentanyl.

[Edited 6/6/16 12:09pm]

benni said:

EmancipationLover said:

.

You can copy-paste parts of this article 100 times, it does not take away the facts that

.

1) the claim derived from the article that the forensics of drug abuse is traced back to the scientific work of a single scientist (Karch) is utterly false. I have exemplified this by demonstrating the Karch has, for instance, never published any work regarding fentanyl, which is (for obvious reasons) the focus of this discussion;

.

2) the claim derived from 1) that this is not exact science is therefore utterly false either.

.

I just wanted to clarify this. However, if it helps you in some way to invent wild speculations regarding the validity of the published death certificate, then so be it.

As for #2:

According to a congressionally mandated report released last week, the term "forensic science" is a misnomer because many of the disciplines don't deserve to be called science at all.

In what former Allegheny County coroner Dr. Cyril H. Wecht called "a revolutionary event in the field of forensic science," the National Academy of Sciences announced the results of a long-awaited study of forensic crime-solving techniques -- and it wasn't kind.

The report called for a federal overseer to set standards for crime labs and called into question the use of many common practices.

"With the exception of nuclear DNA analysis, however, no forensic method has been rigorously shown to have the capacity to consistently, and with a high degree of certainty, demonstrate a connection between evidence and a specific individual or source," the report states, later questioning, "whether -- and to what extent -- there is science in any given forensic science discipline."

As for #1: Again, the article (nor I) ever made the claim that he had published anything on fentanyl.

[Edited 6/6/16 12:09pm]

.

Maybe I'm accidentally writing in a Chinese dialect, I really don't know what is unclear about my statements. I never claimed to provide a general evaluation of forensic sciences. The determination of drugs and metabolites from human samples is an exact science, period. Dr. Karch is an esteemed scientist, but he is by far not the single source for today's knowledge on the forensics of drug abuse (example: fentanyl). Hence, this knowledge is not just provided by a single person. Therefore, any conclusion based on this assumption is incorrect.

.

You can feel free to believe that Prince actually died from a mini-rocket that a Marsian put into his bum, but highly qualified individuals have found fentanyl (and no other relevant drug) in his system. We should learn to deal with that.

Drugs that did not contribute to the cause of death should not be recorded on the death certificate. (Deaths associated with drugs found postmortem, whether causal or incidental, would be included in the drug-detected category defined above, even though the incidental findings would not be specified on the death certificate.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g...MC3805449/

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

benni said:

Drugs that did not contribute to the cause of death should not be recorded on the death certificate. (Deaths associated with drugs found postmortem, whether causal or incidental, would be included in the drug-detected category defined above, even though the incidental findings would not be specified on the death certificate.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g...MC3805449/

.

That's why I have written "no other relevant drug". If Prince had actually taken another drug which did not contribute to his death does not play any role. It was fentanyl that killed him.

[Edited 6/6/16 13:03pm]

EmancipationLover said:

benni said:

Drugs that did not contribute to the cause of death should not be recorded on the death certificate. (Deaths associated with drugs found postmortem, whether causal or incidental, would be included in the drug-detected category defined above, even though the incidental findings would not be specified on the death certificate.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g...MC3805449/

.

That's why I have written "no other relevant drug". If Prince had actually taken another drug which did not contribute to his death does not play any role. It was fentanyl that killed him.

[Edited 6/6/16 13:03pm]

I had not posted that for you, but for Eileen to show her that the percocets would not have to be listed if they did not contribute to the cause of death.

What I had stated in an earlier post: The percocet could have increased the toxicity level of the fentanyl and therefore would not have to be listed, as it in itself, was not considered to be fatal. However, due to the toxicity level then of fentanyl, that would be the cause of the death. I had found another journal article (which I've been searching for again) that stated that a second drug would not have to be listed if it was not at toxic or fatal levels in the system.

The above "drugs that did not contribute to the cause of death should not be recorded on the death certificate" is the point I have been trying to make. It is possible he had taken percocets earlier in the evening, when they did not work, used fentanyl. The percocets would have not been at a toxic level, but could have slowed down how quickly his liver processed the fentanyl, resulting in an increased toxicity of the fentanyl. The percocets were not directly related to his death, the accidental fentanyl toxicity was. That is the only point I have been trying to make.

avajane said:

Are the scars mentioned a result of hip surgery? [Edited 6/2/16 11:51am]

that is what i would think

So is there really still a criminal investigation still going on? Or is it all done now?

morningsong said:

So is there really still a criminal investigation still going on? Or is it all done now?

The Feds and the Carver County Sheriff's office are still investigating. It's not over.

http://boingboing.net/2016/06/05/prince-death-by-ignorance-and.html

Powerful article by a musician who used to work a Paisley Park - deals with Prince's work ethic, lifestyle and need for pain killers. I think many of you will appreciate it. Nice photo too!

lastdecember said:

A big thing left out off the "Things we do not know"

How bad was the Pain he was in.

When did this pain begin.

Did he have a hip surgery and who performed it since no one is saying they did.

So the thing I don't get about "Walgreens" is he is picking up his own prescriptions, so in that respect he is NOT HIDING anything? Which is conflicting all the other points that are being made. One being that someone else was getting this for him? Why would he be having someone else get them and then go pick them up himself? The plane issue also early on was mentioned that Prince was upset that they landed the plane I guess when he found out, so that would imply he was trying to hide all kinds of suspicion of a plane landing like it had "mechanical issues or threats" which would be a RED FLAG to media, so it is confusing how he was being discreet in one way and then be all out in the open picking things up.

I found it odd that the report did not list hip pain as a contributing factor. If he was taking Fentanyl due to severe pain, that should have been listed as a contributing or significant condition. Everyone who has worked around for the past 30 years knows about his pain. Why was that not mentioned in the report?

SLC said:

http://boingboing.net/2016/06/05/prince-death-by-ignorance-and.html

Powerful article by a musician who used to work a Paisley Park - deals with Prince's work ethic, lifestyle and need for pain killers. I think many of you will appreciate it. Nice photo too!

Good read. Thanks for sharing.

benni said:

EmancipationLover said:

.

That's why I have written "no other relevant drug". If Prince had actually taken another drug which did not contribute to his death does not play any role. It was fentanyl that killed him.

[Edited 6/6/16 13:03pm]

I had not posted that for you, but for Eileen to show her that the percocets would not have to be listed if they did not contribute to the cause of death.

What I had stated in an earlier post: The percocet could have increased the toxicity level of the fentanyl and therefore would not have to be listed, as it in itself, was not considered to be fatal. However, due to the toxicity level then of fentanyl, that would be the cause of the death. I had found another journal article (which I've been searching for again) that stated that a second drug would not have to be listed if it was not at toxic or fatal levels in the system.

The above "drugs that did not contribute to the cause of death should not be recorded on the death certificate" is the point I have been trying to make. It is possible he had taken percocets earlier in the evening, when they did not work, used fentanyl. The percocets would have not been at a toxic level, but could have slowed down how quickly his liver processed the fentanyl, resulting in an increased toxicity of the fentanyl. The percocets were not directly related to his death, the accidental fentanyl toxicity was. That is the only point I have been trying to make.

Whilst I am not arguing that the ME didn't have to include any secondary drug in the report, I do find it puzzling because, IF this scenario was true, then even though the other drug did not have fatal levels of toxicity, without the drug the fentanyl levels may have been safe. So it would have been a contributing factor. In other words it was the combination that was fatal, not each drug on its own.

Anyway, we do not know if there was any other drug in the system so he may have simply put too much fentanyl into his body and didn't have the tolerance levels required for the dosage.

adrianne0791 said:

Glad y'all are still here. I usually just read the posts. But I'm still in mourning and don't understand it. Maybe it's because I was at the 7:00 show on 4/14 and maybe it's just because of just having seen someone, admittedly was smaller looking but sounded great. I heard the 10:00 clock show on SoundCloud and clearly heard several mistakes in his playing. Which was shocking from such perfectionist, but just shows that he wasn't feeling well. I've been mad at him. Then at his doctors. And then at the employees at Paisley Park. I don't care what anyone says, it was NOT his time to go. If the employees were sooo concerned to try and stage an intervention, then why leave him alone right after filling that prescription? If anyone knew what really happened on that plane, they should have known that it potentially could happen again. And all these girls calling themselves his girlfriend or muses or this or that. NO ONE was around when he was sick?

My opinion: I think he panicked when word leaked what happened on the plane. Being such a private person and NOT being in the tabloids, he was desperate to prove that he was fine and wanted to get better faster. I just knew that I'd still be seeing him in concert 20 years from now. I'm hopeful that there will be music released from the vault. And video. Just like I hope they find a will. I can't believe at 57 he didn't have one--with that many assets. But mostly, I find myself moping and missing deadlines. I guess, I say all that because I really didn't comprehend how much Prince meant to me--as an artist. But like he says in Sometimes it Snows in April. "Love isn't love until it's past."

I totally get this! I have been able to let go of some of my anger towards the PP people. They have to be suffering quite a lot already. Doesn't change the fact tho that this didn't have to happen. I had no idea I would still be so affected by his passing. My house is a mess. I feel distracted from my usual daily routines and mostly just very sad. And I'm not interested in knowing all the information so many others here seem to want/need. We already know what caused his death. The law enforcement agencies will fill in all the blanks of the how's and why's. I just want it to be over. I hope they don't try to criminalize the case. I hope they use it as a learning tool in their proactive efforts to get the opioid abuse epidemic under control. Perhaps his death wouldn't be totally in vain if it provides the attention this problem needs to be taken seriously. Still wish he was here tho. Every day.

[Edited 6/7/16 1:22am]

sonshine said:

adrianne0791 said:

Glad y'all are still here. I usually just read the posts. But I'm still in mourning and don't understand it. Maybe it's because I was at the 7:00 show on 4/14 and maybe it's just because of just having seen someone, admittedly was smaller looking but sounded great. I heard the 10:00 clock show on SoundCloud and clearly heard several mistakes in his playing. Which was shocking from such perfectionist, but just shows that he wasn't feeling well. I've been mad at him. Then at his doctors. And then at the employees at Paisley Park. I don't care what anyone says, it was NOT his time to go. If the employees were sooo concerned to try and stage an intervention, then why leave him alone right after filling that prescription? If anyone knew what really happened on that plane, they should have known that it potentially could happen again. And all these girls calling themselves his girlfriend or muses or this or that. NO ONE was around when he was sick?

My opinion: I think he panicked when word leaked what happened on the plane. Being such a private person and NOT being in the tabloids, he was desperate to prove that he was fine and wanted to get better faster. I just knew that I'd still be seeing him in concert 20 years from now. I'm hopeful that there will be music released from the vault. And video. Just like I hope they find a will. I can't believe at 57 he didn't have one--with that many assets. But mostly, I find myself moping and missing deadlines. I guess, I say all that because I really didn't comprehend how much Prince meant to me--as an artist. But like he says in Sometimes it Snows in April. "Love isn't love until it's past."

I totally get this! I have been able to let go of some of my anger towards the PP people. They have to be suffering quite a lot already. Doesn't change the fact tho that this didn't have to happen. I had no idea I would still be so affected by his passing. My house is a mess. I feel distracted from my usual daily routines and mostly just very sad. And I'm not interested in knowing all the information so many others here seem to want/need. We already know what caused his death. The law enforcement agencies will fill in all the blanks of the how's and why's. I just want it to be over. I hope they don't try to criminalize the case. I hope they use it as a learning tool in their proactive efforts to get the opioid abuse epidemic under control. Perhaps his death wouldn't be totally in vain if it provides the attention this problem needs to be taken seriously. Still wish he was here tho. Every day.

[Edited 6/7/16 1:22am]

I don't think we will ever know what happened in those last moments before that overdose. We certainly will not know what was running through his head. Maybe he was in pain, or maybe since he knew he was about to have rehab help it was one last hoorah on the high train, who knows. I tried a synthetic heroin for pain management once, and the pyschological feelings it delivers is outstanding. Not a high feeling, just feeling good and happy despite everything, so I understand anyones attraction to these drugs. As far as missing him, I think I look back now and realize I thought about this dude almost every day. 'What is that mad Prince up to today' I would think, or something chattering about in my brains similar to that. I can't do that anymore. Now I think about a guitar that sits with no one to play it, and a man's unfinished plans and dreams. What an effing waste.

tmo1965 said:

lastdecember said:

A big thing left out off the "Things we do not know"

How bad was the Pain he was in.

When did this pain begin.

Did he have a hip surgery and who performed it since no one is saying they did.

So the thing I don't get about "Walgreens" is he is picking up his own prescriptions, so in that respect he is NOT HIDING anything? Which is conflicting all the other points that are being made. One being that someone else was getting this for him? Why would he be having someone else get them and then go pick them up himself? The plane issue also early on was mentioned that Prince was upset that they landed the plane I guess when he found out, so that would imply he was trying to hide all kinds of suspicion of a plane landing like it had "mechanical issues or threats" which would be a RED FLAG to media, so it is confusing how he was being discreet in one way and then be all out in the open picking things up.

I found it odd that the report did not list hip pain as a contributing factor. If he was taking Fentanyl due to severe pain, that should have been listed as a contributing or significant condition. Everyone who has worked around for the past 30 years knows about his pain. Why was that not mentioned in the report?

Because hip pain is a proximate cause not and ultimate cause of death. A life history report would include it but a death certificate only lists the ultimate causes that resulted in the body being unable to sustain life.

Unless there is a criminal investigation going on, we'll likely never know the contents of the autopsy report... underlying ilness, etc.

http://www.usatoday.com/s.../85531498/

hollywooddove said:

sonshine said:

I totally get this! I have been able to let go of some of my anger towards the PP people. They have to be suffering quite a lot already. Doesn't change the fact tho that this didn't have to happen. I had no idea I would still be so affected by his passing. My house is a mess. I feel distracted from my usual daily routines and mostly just very sad. And I'm not interested in knowing all the information so many others here seem to want/need. We already know what caused his death. The law enforcement agencies will fill in all the blanks of the how's and why's. I just want it to be over. I hope they don't try to criminalize the case. I hope they use it as a learning tool in their proactive efforts to get the opioid abuse epidemic under control. Perhaps his death wouldn't be totally in vain if it provides the attention this problem needs to be taken seriously. Still wish he was here tho. Every day.

[Edited 6/7/16 1:22am]

I don't think we will ever know what happened in those last moments before that overdose. We certainly will not know what was running through his head. Maybe he was in pain, or maybe since he knew he was about to have rehab help it was one last hoorah on the high train, who knows. I tried a synthetic heroin for pain management once, and the pyschological feelings it delivers is outstanding. Not a high feeling, just feeling good and happy despite everything, so I understand anyones attraction to these drugs. As far as missing him, I think I look back now and realize I thought about this dude almost every day. 'What is that mad Prince up to today' I would think, or something chattering about in my brains similar to that. I can't do that anymore. Now I think about a guitar that sits with no one to play it, and a man's unfinished plans and dreams. What an effing waste.

I once not-so-accidentlly overdosed when I was 19 on benzodiazapines. The experience was neither pleasant or unpleasant. Literally, within seconds of ingesting the drug I felt it take over my body. Physically I had a strong burning sensation which swept through out my entire body but probably only lasted seconds. I was also overcome by nausea but the feeling quickly passed. Emotionally, yes I was very aware of what was happening but really just indifferent. At some point a wave of nauseau swept over me and I felt like i was going to vomit. I tried to turn my head to the side but I couldn't physically move. I reallized that this was it. Somehow I woke up 3 days later in the hospital. That's when the pain really began. Although benzodiazapines are not opiates, I would summize that Prince's final moments were not painful nor would I imagine that he was freightened.

Giovanni777 said:

Unless there is a criminal investigation going on, we'll likely never know the contents of the autopsy report... underlying ilness, etc.

http://www.usatoday.com/s.../85531498/

I think what might be key is this:

"'The only other way to get around the state law is if someone, such as media organizations, petitions a local district judge in Carver County to release it', says Baker".

Now, given that the nature of Prince's death might be used as the basis for a crackdown on legitimate prescriptions of opiate pain-medications, and a change in law / strategy as to how chronic pain patients are treated, I would hazard that a legal case could well be made for publicising the autopsy / circumstances around P's demise. If the aforementioned scenario should come to pass, the precise details would arguably be very much 'in the public interest'.

Giovanni777 said:

Unless there is a criminal investigation going on, we'll likely never know the contents of the autopsy report... underlying ilness, etc.

I think we will. Unfortunately, some people can be bought for the right price.

Giovanni777 said:

Unless there is a criminal investigation going on, we'll likely never know the contents of the autopsy report... underlying ilness, etc.

http://www.usatoday.com/s.../85531498/

I'd be surprised if several media outlets weren't already getting ready to petition the court for full autopsy results. Can't believe TMZ wouldn't be all over it....

wouldntulove2loveme said:

hollywooddove said:

I don't think we will ever know what happened in those last moments before that overdose. We certainly will not know what was running through his head. Maybe he was in pain, or maybe since he knew he was about to have rehab help it was one last hoorah on the high train, who knows. I tried a synthetic heroin for pain management once, and the pyschological feelings it delivers is outstanding. Not a high feeling, just feeling good and happy despite everything, so I understand anyones attraction to these drugs. As far as missing him, I think I look back now and realize I thought about this dude almost every day. 'What is that mad Prince up to today' I would think, or something chattering about in my brains similar to that. I can't do that anymore. Now I think about a guitar that sits with no one to play it, and a man's unfinished plans and dreams. What an effing waste.

I once not-so-accidentlly overdosed when I was 19 on benzodiazapines. The experience was neither pleasant or unpleasant. Literally, within seconds of ingesting the drug I felt it take over my body. Physically I had a strong burning sensation which swept through out my entire body but probably only lasted seconds. I was also overcome by nausea but the feeling quickly passed. Emotionally, yes I was very aware of what was happening but really just indifferent. At some point a wave of nauseau swept over me and I felt like i was going to vomit. I tried to turn my head to the side but I couldn't physically move. I reallized that this was it. Somehow I woke up 3 days later in the hospital. That's when the pain really began. Although benzodiazapines are not opiates, I would summize that Prince's final moments were not painful nor would I imagine that he was freightened.

whoa. i think i want to say thank you for posting but i feel almost blindsided by the stark honesty of a near death experience that i'm tearing up for you, for Prince and for anyone who has been in this place ....i'm so glad you lived to tell the tale, and hope you've found much to live for since...

Per a new article in USA Today

"What kind of fentanyl was found in Prince's body and how did he obtain the painkiller said to be way more powerful than heroin or morphine? Was there anything else found in his body in addition to fentanyl? Was Prince a long-time user of fentanyl or any other such drug? Were there any underlying medical conditions that contributed to his death?

"You can’t tell (from the toxicology) if it's prescription fentanyl or street fentanyl, although if it's pure, (the report) would just say fentanyl, but that's why we (review) medical records," says Dr. James Caruso, chief medical examiner for Denver, in a state where autopsy reports are public records."

Reiterates what we DON'T know (if fentanyl was prescribed or not, if he used this or other drugs for a long time or a short time, etc.) -- and, per this article, we may never know, because per Minnesota law autopsy records are sealed (all we saw was the death report), while in other states autopsies are public.

Frustrating.

disch said:

Per a new article in USA Today

"What kind of fentanyl was found in Prince's body and how did he obtain the painkiller said to be way more powerful than heroin or morphine? Was there anything else found in his body in addition to fentanyl? Was Prince a long-time user of fentanyl or any other such drug? Were there any underlying medical conditions that contributed to his death?

"You can’t tell (from the toxicology) if it's prescription fentanyl or street fentanyl, although if it's pure, (the report) would just say fentanyl, but that's why we (review) medical records," says Dr. James Caruso, chief medical examiner for Denver, in a state where autopsy reports are public records."

Reiterates what we DON'T know (if fentanyl was prescribed or not, if he used this or other drugs for a long time or a short time, etc.) -- and, per this article, we may never know, because per Minnesota law autopsy records are sealed (all we saw was the death report), while in other states autopsies are public.

Frustrating.

I feel a little better.

I've read on several sites that P had an early appointment with a Holistic medical provider on the morning he was found. He had missed the appointment. If that's true it's odd because he was also seeing Schulenberg. I wish someone, anyone, would speak out and say something. If nothing else, they could validate that he was taking meds for pain and clear his name. I know he liked his privacy but I don't think he would like to have the world thinking he was a drug addict either. The longer his family/friends/associates remain silent without coming forth to offer some type of clarification, the larger the rumors are going to become and that's sad for P's legacy. IMO

Dibblekins said:

[Snip - luv4u]

CROWNS1 said:

I've read on several sites that P had an early appointment with a Holistic medical provider on the morning he was found. He had missed the appointment. If that's true it's odd because he was also seeing Schulenberg. I wish someone, anyone, would speak out and say something. If nothing else, they could validate that he was taking meds for pain and clear his name. I know he liked his privacy but I don't think he would like to have the world thinking he was a drug addict either. The longer his family/friends/associates remain silent without coming forth to offer some type of clarification, the larger the rumors are going to become and that's sad for P's legacy. IMO

Maybe that's the doctor that Andrew Kornfield was supposed to take Prince to see, that doctor never saw Prince so they don't have anything to say.


If there is a criminal investigation taking place then I don't think anyone can say anything publically right now. Seems to me, the investigation went very quiet all of a sudden when before it seemed to have all these "leaks" so something could be really going on.