jillybean said:

Is this real? He weighed 112 lbs. Oh, this is heartbreaking all over again.

He was only 5'2" tall and thin

SheLovesMeNot said:

The doctor was bringing test results. This may be a stupid quesiton, but if you have an addiction problem, do they need to do tests? I ask because, if not, then that could be an indication that something else was going on.

I am headed down to Brooklyn for Spike Lee's party to celebrate Prince's birthday!

EddieC said:

jesme1999 said:

EddieC said:

Here's the thing (and if somebody's already said this, I'm sorry for repeating--there's still several more pages of comments ahead of me and I don't know what people will say in them)--this isn't just about how he died. Depending on what he was doing, and for how long, and why it very well could be exactly about how he lived his life. Even if it was all just in response to physical pain, according to some talk it's 10, 15, 20 years of performances and creation that relied, in part, on his use of opioids to get him through. Maybe more, if, God forbid, the supposed drug dealer's telling the truth. What if Duane was, and he'd been doing tons of coke to keep himself going earlier?

Part of Prince's legacy is the story that was told about how he did all the work he did--and it was supposed to be clean, powered by the love of music and God (no matter how many of us didn't share his faith). Sorry, but that was the narrative, and part of that narrative was also that he was honest--not open, but honest. This new story we're trying to deal with affects all of that, it shows a secretive, furtive, scared, not in control Prince that isn't really the same one we knew (any of the ones we thought we knew--he had sides, but we didn't think this was one of them)--it changes the narrative, and that makes a difference in his legacy. Yes, lots of artists have done a lot of drugs--but that was part of their legend, and their legacy. This isn't part of Prince's legend as we understood him, and it does change things, even for those who do love the music--it changes the experience of the music, it changes meanings.

Is he still the greatest performer and musical creator of my lifetime--yes, I think so. But I want to understand what happened, and to understand, as much as I can, the artist that I've loved for most of my life, who has been the only consistent part of my life for that whole time (my family and friends from back then are dead or have drifted away). This death, and what led to it, is only part of doing that--but it is part of it.

[Edited 6/3/16 19:36pm]

Great post ! I feel the same .

Yes, excellent post. You articulated so well what I have not been able to put into words but this is exactly how I feel. Thank you!

Baduizm said:

nursev said:

and what self respecting doctor would advise a client to detox at home...lemme make a housecall...the hell?

Not just self-respecting, but ethical. If true, this doctor engaged in highly unethical medical care.

I wish everyone would stop blaming others for Prince's death. Do you honestly think a doctor advised him to detox at home??? The more likely scenario is that Prince refused to detox in an inpatient setting and the doctor gave Prince the best medical advise he could after Prince layed out his ground rules concerning what he was willing to do / not do. A doctor cannot make a person do anything they do not want to, only advise and counsel.

Furthermore, remember that a doctor can only make informed decisions based on the information that a patient shares with them. If a patient is not honest or withholds information from a doctor (which they often due to manipulate them), it can have terrible consequences.

Doctors are not God and patients are equally responsible for their health as the doctor. Stop blaming others.

So sad! It's like he died all over again!

wouldntulove2loveme said:

jesme1999 said:

EddieC said: Great post ! I feel the same .

Yes, excellent post. You articulated so well what I have not been able to put into words but this is exactly how I feel. Thank you!

He was beautiful, talented, a genius. But I think a very sad and lonely man. He had more than most people will ever imagine but I don't feel it filled that hole in his soul that he seemed to have. You can hear in some interviews things that have turned out to be untrue, that maybe he hinself contradicts. I think he wanted to project a life that was totally in control and planned. If you listen to the Larry King interview for his PPV New Years Eve special in Dec. of 1999, he spoke of his marriage and home life when in fact they had already gotten, from what I've read his ex say, an annulment and the following year was the divorce. He wanted people to think he and his life were ok I think. I think he spoke of how he wanted life to be, not what it really was. I wish he hadn't been so lonely, he always had so many people around, but I really think he was alone in his heart. He told us what he wanted us to think and hear. I love and miss him so much, this was such a wasted passing. I wish someone could have made a difference to him, to help him. I think there were to many sycophants in his life.

[Edited 6/4/16 8:26am]

[Edited 6/4/16 8:27am]

jesme1999 said:

SheLovesMeNot said:

You people are amazing at all your comments and questions. Why this, why that?!!! The autopsy report is 100 % accurate! There are no two reports made and they are public record! Prince did NOT have AIDS Prince did not have Cancer, why is it so hard for you people to accept the fact that Prince was a drug seeker, legal or illegal that is what he turned out to be at 57 years old! No body has hip pain so bad that they need Fentanyl. Yes the pain is bad, real bad, and can lead to deep deep depression when having to deal with it especially after a long period of time and eventually in your head this is how you see the rest of your life, in pain. Prince makes all decisions on his own, he's a smart grown up with enough knowledge to know where this journey would eventually take him...and he took that chance and this is where it got him...dead! I loved the guy as much as the rest of you did, he made beautiful music, but he died a drug addict and a drug seeker, simple as that. I deal with drug addicts and seekers on a daily basis, and one thing they all have in common beside wanting to be in relief whether it be physical pain or emotional pain is that they care about nothing and nobody but their drugs and how to get them. Prince did something illegal, he took unprescribed drug, he was a drug addict and he hid it from anyone who would stop him from doing what he wanted to do.

Great post ! I love my Prince, that will never change , but sometimes you just gotta face the facts. It's pretty redundant to on one hand blame his friends, and call them enablers and then make excuses for him , as that is a form of enabling as well. Prince had the resources to seek any kind of treatment or pain management he wanted , and if he wasn't happy with one, he had the luxury of being able to pay for another , then another until he found one he was happy with. Also, Ive lived with an addict and when he's clean he will tell you that he knows exactly what he is doing and that it's wrong and that's why they hide it . So. Damn . Sad.

I agree with everything except the big C. We don't know because no medical records have been released, so you yourself don't know if he had it or not and it would'nt be stated in an autopsy or the toxcology reports. I believe he took painkillers in the past, but no I don't believe that he was an addict because he would've fallen apart and it would've showed along time ago. I believe it's gotten worse in the last 1-2 year period and especially recently I believe the chronic pain is from what I said above (he's not gonna tell anybody) and the recent passing of Vanity and no closeness with his family.

That's my theory and I'm sticking too it!

[Edited 6/4/16 9:22am]

[Edited 6/4/16 9:25am]

Why did you do it Prince?? U know what drugs do. man.

BklynDiamond said:

Superfan1984 said:

I know the feds bombarded Paisley Park but I hope they had the good sense to interview Mayte and Manuella. If Prince had been on Fentanyl since the 80's like this drug dealer said, the ex wives would certainly know about it. If he had been on this for so long it would be very disappointing and make me feel that he was not what he portrayed at all, because if the fentanyl went back that long, then it was before pain management.

How do you know it was not for pain management back then???? Do we know when he started having pains??

We do not know anything truly about his health, when he started having pain, etc. I believe by the symbol album he began being seen with a cane.

Howard Bloom, who was a publicist for Prince during the Purple Rain era, is a regular guest on the radio program Coast To Coast. Howard was on Coast To Coast Thursday, June 2, and he said that Prince would be in severe pain after his Purple Rain concerts. During the symbol period is when I first noticed the cane as well, so he was truly having a pain issue for a long time.

wouldntulove2loveme said:

jesme1999 said:

Part of Prince's legacy is the story that was told about how he did all the work he did--and it was supposed to be clean, powered by the love of music and God (no matter how many of us didn't share his faith). Sorry, but that was the narrative, and part of that narrative was also that he was honest--not open, but honest. This new story we're trying to deal with affects all of that. It shows a secretive, furtive, scared, not in control Prince that isn't really the same one we knew (any of the ones we thought we knew--he had sides, but we didn't know this was one of them). It changes the narrative, and that makes a difference in his legacy.

Yes, lots of artists have done a lot of drugs--but that was part of their legend, and their legacy. This wasn't part of Prince's legend as we understood him, and it does change things, even for those who do love the music--it changes the experience of the music, it changes meanings.

Is he still the greatest performer and musical creator of my lifetime--yes, I think so.

EddieC said: Great post ! I feel the same .

Yes, excellent post. You articulated so well what I have not been able to put into words but this is exactly how I feel. Thank you!

It shows that Prince was human: two sided. We need to quietly remember his faults as we continue to love his music.

[Edited 6/4/16 10:12am]

SLC said:

benni said:

I woke up with a thought this morning that it is possible the Fentanyl was a recent event, something he just started using recently (within the last year). If we look at how he suddenly seemed to age, appeared more gaunt in recent times, it could be a result of starting the use of fentanyl. If he had been using percocets for years to manage his pain, he seemed comfortable with it, so much so that he was able to continue touring, making albums, and working as hard as he always had. If the fentanyl was a recent development, maybe because the percocets were no longer working for him, he would not have been as used to them. It could be that he saw the way they were effecting him and wanted to stop them (thus the flu like symptoms) not realizing that he had already developed a dependence upon them.

If he wasn't used to them, he wouldn't be used to how much he could take and could have inadvertently taken more than he should have if he was in extreme pain, thinking it was safe (thus the first episode on the plane ride home) and that episode scared him enough that he wanted to seek out help to get off them. The fact that a few days passed from that first incident to the second one, could be the time frame in which they were doing research, trying to find the best way to stop the medication, the company/medical facility that would work best with Prince and his needs. They would have wanted to find a way that would be the most gentle on him, to prevent the withdrawal symptoms (or at least to lessen those symptoms).

This sounds like a logical scenario - not to mention less disturbing than some of the others.

Thanks, SLC. I just can't imagine him being a long time user of fentanyl. It doesn't make sense as that is some powerful medication and I can't see Prince having the output and energy that he had for so many years if he had been. Having used percocets myself due to chronic pain, and only temporarily, I was still able to function and get my work done as any other able bodied person, which, without them, I wouldn't have been able to.

purplethunder3121 said:

SLC said:

This sounds like a logical scenario - not to mention less disturbing than some of the others.

I agree--this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I saw Prince perform in 2014 at a small club and I was only a few feet away and the difference of his weight, physical appearance, and energy between then and 2016 was like night and day. Thank you, Benni, for weighing in with your opinion and sharing your experience as someone who deals with chronic pain on a daily basis. Your thoughts are comforting at this difficult time.

Thanks, purplethunder3121. I think at this time we are all just trying to navigate waters we never imagined we would find ourselves in. But living with chronic pain is no joke and it definitely decreases quality of life. Using pain medication, unfortunately, can bring us that quality of life that everyone desires when you deal with pain on a daily basis. I've been using Tramadols daily for a few years, interspersed with Norcos or Percocets when the pain gets severe, but have now stopped taking them and have decided to just deal with my pain as best I can. Luckily, I've had no symptoms of withdrawals from them. When I first started taking Tramadols, the doctor told me they were non-narcotic and were non-habit forming. However, after I'd been on them for a couple of years, they changed them to a different class of drugs and started saying they could become addicting. Prior to that, I'd use them as directed, afterwards, I began only taking them when I absolutely couldn't get by without them.

One thing I always try to keep in mind with medications from doctors are they are not always familiar with the drugs they are selling. They only know the information they are given by the drug reps. I went to the ER one time, in a lot of pain, and when the doc went to prescribe me medication, I told him I didn't want anything that would mess with my head because I was in the midst of mid-terms in college. He prescribed Stadol. He told me it was a non-narcotic and would not mess with me. I was to take two sprays up each nostril as needed for pain. I had never had a mist that you spray in your nose for pain and was very leery of taking it, especially when the nurse came in and told me to make sure I took it the way the doctor told me to. The nurse as my boyfriends ex-wife. I went home and started doing some research and found out that Stadol is most definitely a narcotic, recommended manufacturer dosage was one spray up one nostril, and was the one medication used most by doctors and nurses (who often became addicted to it). I dumped it down the drain and never used it. If I had used it the way the doctor prescribed it, I would have been back in the ER from an overdose.

Ever since that time, I always research new medications.

2freaky4church1 said:

Why did you do it Prince?? U know what drugs do. man.

- I believe it´s hard to judge. Prince lived from entertainment. He HAD to be OK during a concert. And, if he took some time to do the surgery, drugs were the only ´solution´ for the pain.
Ok, he was rich, he could have hired a personal doctor to keep things in control, but maybe he wasnt worried about it until the overdose happened in the plane

benni said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I agree--this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I saw Prince perform in 2014 at a small club and I was only a few feet away and the difference of his weight, physical appearance, and energy between then and 2016 was like night and day. Thank you, Benni, for weighing in with your opinion and sharing your experience as someone who deals with chronic pain on a daily basis. Your thoughts are comforting at this difficult time.

..... But living with chronic pain is no joke and it definitely decreases quality of life. Using pain medication, unfortunately, can bring us that quality of life that everyone desires when you deal with pain on a daily basis......

.....One thing I always try to keep in mind with medications from doctors are they are not always familiar with the drugs they are selling. They only know the information they are given by the drug reps.....

.....Ever since that time, I always research new medications.

[Edited 6/4/16 10:25am]

wouldntulove2loveme said:

Baduizm said:

Not just self-respecting, but ethical. If true, this doctor engaged in highly unethical medical care.

I wish everyone would stop blaming others for Prince's death. Do you honestly think a doctor advised him to detox at home??? The more likely scenario is that Prince refused to detox in an inpatient setting and the doctor gave Prince the best medical advise he could after Prince layed out his ground rules concerning what he was willing to do / not do. A doctor cannot make a person do anything they do not want to, only advise and counsel.

Furthermore, remember that a doctor can only make informed decisions based on the information that a patient shares with them. If a patient is not honest or withholds information from a doctor (which they often due to manipulate them), it can have terrible consequences.

Doctors are not God and patients are equally responsible for their health as the doctor.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

paulludvig said:

Prince didn't strike me as someone who's been on heavy drugs for 30 years.

Which goes back to my first sentence. Did Prince, prior to his death, strike you as someone who would die from a Fentanyl overdose??

I'm gonna speculate for a minute:

• Prince starts taking opiates to deal with his crippling stage fright in the 80s (and no, I wouldn't consider this "recreational" use)
• Prince develops tolerance to pills.
• Prince begins to have severe pain from years of performing (splits, high heels, dancing, etc.)
• Prince needs stronger opiates because he's been taking them for years.
• Pain doesn't get better, needs higher doses, accidently takes too much.
  
  Does that seem completely unbelievable, given what we know now?

[Edited 6/3/16 7:18am]

Your first bullet doesn't make sense. I can't imagine Prince suffering from stage fright. But supposing he did, how do you take opiates and then walk out on stage? Prince's preformances were full of life and energy ... not indicative of someone riding out and opiate high. Secondly, if Prince really did have crippling stage fright there are actualy legitimate medications for it. Beta blockers, specifically Propranolol are used to treat preformance anxiety. They work extremly well for people who have to do a lot of public speaking etc... They work by blocking the effect of adrenaline in the body.

mimi1956 said:

He was beautiful, talented, a genius. But I think a very sad and lonely man. He had more than most people will ever imagine but I don't feel it filled that hole in his soul that he seemed to have. You can hear in some interviews things that have turned out to be untrue, that maybe he hinself contradicts. I think he wanted to project a life that was totally in control and planned. If you listen to the Larry King interview for his PPV New Years Eve special in Dec. of 1999, he spoke of his marriage and home life when in fact they had already gotten, from what I've read his ex say, an annulment and the following year was the divorce. He wanted people to think he and his life were ok I think. I think he spoke of how he wanted life to be, not what it really was. I wish he hadn't been so lonely, he always had so many people around, but I really think he was alone in his heart. He told us what he wanted us to think and hear. I love and miss him so much, this was such a wasted passing. I wish someone could have made a difference to him, to help him. I think there were to many sycophants in his life.

.

This is the way I always felt about the Oprah interview after his baby (Amir) had died. For good or bad, I think this was just his way of trying to cope with things in his life.

.

He certainly seemed to carry a lot of pain and loneliness with him and this was often reflected in his words and actions. In moments of clarity I think he recognised this in himself, with these themes sometimes seeping out into his work:

.

Letitgo: "all my life i kept my feelings deep inside; never was a good seat at any of this man's shows..."

The Holy River: "...people say they love you and they want to help, but how can they when you can't help yourself?" / "...looking back y'all, I don't miss nothing except the time..."

The Breakdown: "...give me back the time, you can keep the memories..."

Way Back Home: "I never wanted a typical life: scripted role, trophy wife. all i ever wanted: to be left alone..."

.

For all the joy he was able to give to others it hurts me so much to think that he was never able to find that for himself.

.

SLC said:

benni said:

I woke up with a thought this morning that it is possible the Fentanyl was a recent event, something he just started using recently (within the last year). If we look at how he suddenly seemed to age, appeared more gaunt in recent times, it could be a result of starting the use of fentanyl. If he had been using percocets for years to manage his pain, he seemed comfortable with it, so much so that he was able to continue touring, making albums, and working as hard as he always had. If the fentanyl was a recent development, maybe because the percocets were no longer working for him, he would not have been as used to them. It could be that he saw the way they were effecting him and wanted to stop them (thus the flu like symptoms) not realizing that he had already developed a dependence upon them.

If he wasn't used to them, he wouldn't be used to how much he could take and could have inadvertently taken more than he should have if he was in extreme pain, thinking it was safe (thus the first episode on the plane ride home) and that episode scared him enough that he wanted to seek out help to get off them. The fact that a few days passed from that first incident to the second one, could be the time frame in which they were doing research, trying to find the best way to stop the medication, the company/medical facility that would work best with Prince and his needs. They would have wanted to find a way that would be the most gentle on him, to prevent the withdrawal symptoms (or at least to lessen those symptoms).

This sounds like a logical scenario - not to mention less disturbing than some of the others.

Dr. Drew thinks Prince's situation was more along the lines of a medical misadventure than someone who was a typical drug addict. In Andrew Kornfeld's CNN op ed piece, he alluded to someone stopping the meds cold turkey and then returning to the same dosage that they tolerated before. He said that it could be fatal to do that.

purplethunder3121 said:

SLC said:

This sounds like a logical scenario - not to mention less disturbing than some of the others.

I agree--this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I saw Prince perform in 2014 at a small club and I was only a few feet away and the difference of his weight, physical appearance, and energy between then and 2016 was like night and day. Thank you, Benni, for weighing in with your opinion and sharing your experience as someone who deals with chronic pain on a daily basis. Your thoughts are comforting at this difficult time.

How ever this scenario played out, it started about 1.5 years ago. I saw Prince perform at the Essence Festival in July 2014 and he was his usual self. Since that time I began to notice what I thought were signs of aging, but now I know that it was much more.

Feel like such an idiot for not catching the Essence show. Last time I could have logistically seen him.

THe thing is we can all debate this and argue and call each other oblivious and in Denial (my personal fave quote) but the fact is ONLY HE KNEW the pain and how much he was in, so we can run all these scenarios and here these all of a sudden eye witness accounts and hear about timelines and erratic behaviours they may or may not have been occuring, but the end game is the one person that can tell us what PAIN he was in or what was up, is gone, so it is really a waste of time to try and piece this together like some bad SVU tv show, because he holds the actual script. The toughest part of this is that someone who was only present is now absent, or what presence there is, is not a physical one or the one that we want, the presence now is that of a tabloid headline or tribute magazine. But to also touch on this issue of PAIN or chronic pain, I see posts on this forum talking about past events they have had or others have had. Again all I can say is that PAIN is different for everyone, in some cases it does not lead to taking medication in some it leads to deep depression and some suicide as I knew of a person that took their own life last year because of agonizing hip pain after a surgery that was to correct it but did not, this on top of depression only magnified it and lead to them taking their own life. PAIN is the strongest thing it can lead to so many other things, but also takes your LIFE slowly, even if you can numb it for a time it comes back, and in other forms and like a VIRUS when it gets used to being treated one way it grows another way, its just that simple but complex because there are no two cases that are alike because PEOPLE are not alike.

geetee71 said:

mimi1956 said:

He was beautiful, talented, a genius. But I think a very sad and lonely man. He had more than most people will ever imagine but I don't feel it filled that hole in his soul that he seemed to have. You can hear in some interviews things that have turned out to be untrue, that maybe he hinself contradicts. I think he wanted to project a life that was totally in control and planned. If you listen to the Larry King interview for his PPV New Years Eve special in Dec. of 1999, he spoke of his marriage and home life when in fact they had already gotten, from what I've read his ex say, an annulment and the following year was the divorce. He wanted people to think he and his life were ok I think. I think he spoke of how he wanted life to be, not what it really was. I wish he hadn't been so lonely, he always had so many people around, but I really think he was alone in his heart. He told us what he wanted us to think and hear. I love and miss him so much, this was such a wasted passing. I wish someone could have made a difference to him, to help him. I think there were to many sycophants in his life.

.

This is the way I always felt about the Oprah interview after his baby (Amir) had died. For good or bad, I think this was just his way of trying to cope with things in his life.

.

He certainly seemed to carry a lot of pain and loneliness with him and this was often reflected in his words and actions. In moments of clarity I think he recognised this in himself, with these themes sometimes seeping out into his work:

.

Letitgo: "all my life i kept my feelings deep inside; never was a good seat at any of this man's shows..."

The Holy River: "...people say they love you and they want to help, but how can they when you can't help yourself?" / "...looking back y'all, I don't miss nothing except the time..."

The Breakdown: "...give me back the time, you can keep the memories..."

Way Back Home: "I never wanted a typical life: scripted role, trophy wife. all i ever wanted: to be left alone..."

.

For all the joy he was able to give to others it hurts me so much to think that he was never able to find that for himself.

.

I just wish the love from us, his "family" was enough to fill the void. I feel so bad for him. I truly hope there is an afterworld so we can all see him again someday and he is with his mom, dad and son. I hope we get to meet besides our families again the people we loved and admired from afar

benni said:

I woke up with a thought this morning that it is possible the Fentanyl was a recent event, something he just started using recently (within the last year). If we look at how he suddenly seemed to age, appeared more gaunt in recent times, it could be a result of starting the use of fentanyl. If he had been using percocets for years to manage his pain, he seemed comfortable with it, so much so that he was able to continue touring, making albums, and working as hard as he always had. If the fentanyl was a recent development, maybe because the percocets were no longer working for him, he would not have been as used to them. It could be that he saw the way they were effecting him and wanted to stop them (thus the flu like symptoms) not realizing that he had already developed a dependence upon them.

If he wasn't used to them, he wouldn't be used to how much he could take and could have inadvertently taken more than he should have if he was in extreme pain, thinking it was safe (thus the first episode on the plane ride home) and that episode scared him enough that he wanted to seek out help to get off them. The fact that a few days passed from that first incident to the second one, could be the time frame in which they were doing research, trying to find the best way to stop the medication, the company/medical facility that would work best with Prince and his needs. They would have wanted to find a way that would be the most gentle on him, to prevent the withdrawal symptoms (or at least to lessen those symptoms).

I agree with you, benni. I feel that the Fentanyl was something more recent and I am in just as much agreement with your entire post. Thank you.

tmo1965 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I agree--this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I saw Prince perform in 2014 at a small club and I was only a few feet away and the difference of his weight, physical appearance, and energy between then and 2016 was like night and day. Thank you, Benni, for weighing in with your opinion and sharing your experience as someone who deals with chronic pain on a daily basis. Your thoughts are comforting at this difficult time.

How ever this scenario played out, it started about 1.5 years ago. I saw Prince perform at the Essence Festival in July 2014 and he was his usual self. Since that time I began to notice what I thought were signs of aging, but now I know that it was much more.

I didn't notice as quickly. I noticed it moreso beginning last year and I thought to myself that he was finally beginning to show his age. It's only since January when I noticed him being thinner than usual that I thought he might be ill.

alphastreet said:

XxAxX said:

wouldntulove2loveme said: