I've always wondered how so much of his 'unreleased' music has been "leaked" over the years...

I read stories about how Prince would walk into record shops and destroy bootlegs...

I mean, did his sound engineers really betray him and sell his music behind his back?

How do bootleg companies (not naming names) get soundboard recordings?

How do bootleg companies get pictures of him inside a limousine for example?

My personal opinion is Prince leaked his music with the intent for his fans to trade and meet each other

And that he was only upset when others were making money off his unreleased music

I mean, there are a series of 'bootlegged' shows that have such intimate information about when and where and how the music was recorded that it's hard for me to believe he had nothing to do with it.

So I choose to believe Prince lived in the world of a dichotomy where he released his 'unreleased' music to his friends with the intent of getting his music to his fans yet was upset when others profited off it...

Please shed some light...

I hope someone knows the real answer )

http://prince.org/msg/7/423852

There's another thread talking about "What if the vault was empty" -- but I can't find it. Anyways, obviously nobody on these forums knows the answers you're seeking.

suomynona said:

http://prince.org/msg/7/423852

There's another thread talking about "What if the vault was empty" -- but I can't find it. Anyways, obviously nobody on these forums knows the answers you're seeking.

I don't think that is true.

But maybe 'some things are better left unsaid'

thank you for the link to the other thread!

But that thread is about what to do with what's remaining in the vault.

This thread concerns how songs from the vault have been released throughout his career...

I've had access to songs from his vault since '88 when they were released on LPs

How could that be by accident when taking into consideration how controlling Prince was of his music?

There is no way that he leaked stuff.

But it's already been documented how he used to be very free and easy passing on music to band members, friends, girlfriends...wasn't it even said that a former band member was responsible for the selling on of the live recordings that constituted the City Lights bootleg box set?

It would be interesting to find out how the demos made their way out, I'm sure it's been told before.

jjam said:

There is no way that he leaked stuff.

But it's already been documented how he used to be very free and easy passing on music to band members, friends, girlfriends...wasn't it even said that a former band member was responsible for the selling on of the live recordings that constituted the City Lights bootleg box set?

It was said that Big Chick sold the Purple Rain tour rehearsal tapes

But Used to be free and easy passing his music?

I had many tracks off of 'Art Official Age' before it was released

Not to mention many unreleased tracks from 3rdEyeGirl sessions that are flawless

I can't imagine every artist he works with releases these unreleased recordings behind his back

And yes, the new City Lights outshine the old with beautiful details so intimate and intricate that it's hard for me to believe he didn't have anything to do with it.

Thx for your reply jjam!

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

It was said that Big Chick sold the Purple Rain tour rehearsal tapes

But Used to be free and easy passing his music?

I had many tracks off of 'Art Official Age' before it was released

Not to mention many unreleased tracks from 3rdEyeGirl sessions that are flawless

I can't imagine every artist he works with releases these unreleased recordings behind his back

And yes, the new City Lights outshine the old with beautiful details so intimate and intricate that it's hard for me to believe he didn't have anything to do with it.

Thx for your reply jjam!

i think you're confusing officially released stuff with bootleg material. just because it shows

up on some shady bootleggers latest disc box, doesn't mean it's bootlegged outtakes or an
'illegal' live performance.

the stuff you mentioned above, which i bolded, was, for example, mostly released through
either his 3rdeyetunes page or streamed direct from paisley park on their stream channel.

IstenSzek said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

It was said that Big Chick sold the Purple Rain tour rehearsal tapes

But Used to be free and easy passing his music?

I had many tracks off of 'Art Official Age' before it was released

Not to mention many unreleased tracks from 3rdEyeGirl sessions that are flawless

I can't imagine every artist he works with releases these unreleased recordings behind his back

And yes, the new City Lights outshine the old with beautiful details so intimate and intricate that it's hard for me to believe he didn't have anything to do with it.

Thx for your reply jjam!

i think you're confusing officially released stuff with bootleg material. just because it shows

up on some shady bootleggers latest disc box, doesn't mean it's bootlegged outtakes or an
'illegal' live performance.

the stuff you mentioned above, which i bolded, was, for example, mostly released through
either his 3rdeyetunes page or streamed direct from paisley park on their stream channel.

You know what?

I stand corrected regarding the 3rdEyeGirl sessions.

I didn't realize that. (embarrassed)

Thx IstenSzek!

well, there was a lot of stuff going on in various places the last few years
and if you weren't on top of it all the time it was easy to miss a few things,

so it's perfectly normal to make a mistake here or there

P2daP said:

I've wondered about live soundboard recordings. In the French press conference from 2009. He mentions one day technology being so good that fans could record concerts for themselves. Which makes me feel he wasn't agansit fans recording shows. Just wanted it to be perfect sound. It's curious for a man so entranced in live music to not release his first live album until 2002. However, I think the studio tracks were actually leaks. I would guess someone or some people at WB could have been leaking it. The leaks completely dried up after the mid 90's. There is virtually nothing from past 21 years. With that said, I always felt The Black Album was intentionally leaked. I based that off just my own speculation. But I've always felt he wanted to create the evil album (the black album) that would be bootlegged and have no cover or track list or anything like that. Then there would the the good album (lovesexy). He portrayed that good vs evil idea during the Lovesexy tour. Playing songs from The Black Album.

You know I went through my library because of your comment and I think you're right brotha!

Crazy bc releases keep on coming but I think you're right.

Thank you so much!!

Short answer - no.

How various recordings (both outtakes and soundboard shows) have leaked is pretty documented: people "in the know" know of many sources, and even here on the Org some leaks have been explained over the years. Apparently no one stole tracks from the vault, or if they did they never got caught, but Prince was careless all those tapes were widely distributed to friends, girlfriends, bandmembers, engineers, collaborators of all sorts and record company execs.

We also know how Prince changed his policy very radically regarding giving tapes, hence the total lack of outtakes leaks after 1996. As for the soundboards, they kept leaking occasionally because people from the venues managed to discreetely save a copy of the soundboard recording. Again the story of many those soundboard can be traced when you know the right people.

In a same way the way things happened with TBA and Lovesexy has been intensively documented and there is no need for conspiracy theories about Prince doing it all on purpose. It happened the way we were told it happened, and contrarily to popular belief we were not told how it happened by Prince himself, the whole story was revealed years later by Per Nilsen and Uptown.

I understand that the "Prince leaked it all" and "Prince planned the whole TBA thing" theories can be seducing for newbies or people with great imagination, but everyone who's been a fan for a long time, knows enough long term fans and has read enough about all that stuff will tell you that no, Prince didn't leak those songs and shows on purpose.

databank said:

databank said:

How various recordings (both outtakes and soundboard shows) have leaked is pretty documented: people "in the know" know of many sources, and even here on the Org some leaks have been explained over the years. Apparently no one stole tracks from the vault, or if they did they never got caught, but Prince was careless all those tapes were widely distributed to friends, girlfriends, bandmembers, engineers, collaborators of all sorts and record company execs.

We also know how Prince changed his policy very radically regarding giving tapes, hence the total lack of outtakes leaks after 1996. As for the soundboards, they kept leaking occasionally because people from the venues managed to discreetely save a copy of the soundboard recording. Again the story of many those soundboard can be traced when you know the right people.

In a same way the way things happened with TBA and Lovesexy has been intensively documented and there is no need for conspiracy theories about Prince doing it all on purpose. It happened the way we were told it happened, and contrarily to popular belief we were not told how it happened by Prince himself, the whole story was revealed years later by Per Nilsen and Uptown.

I understand that the "Prince leaked it all" and "Prince planned the whole TBA thing" theories can be seducing for newbies or people with great imagination, but everyone who's been a fan for a long time, knows enough long term fans and has read enough about all that stuff will tell you that no, Prince didn't leak those songs and shows on purpose.

great informative post!!

Thank you databank!!

much love

Somebody as protective as Prince was about his songs going up on YouTube isn't the kind to have ever leaked stuff.

databank said:

How various recordings (both outtakes and soundboard shows) have leaked is pretty documented: people "in the know" know of many sources, and even here on the Org some leaks have been explained over the years. Apparently no one stole tracks from the vault, or if they did they never got caught, but Prince was careless all those tapes were widely distributed to friends, girlfriends, bandmembers, engineers, collaborators of all sorts and record company execs.

We also know how Prince changed his policy very radically regarding giving tapes, hence the total lack of outtakes leaks after 1996. As for the soundboards, they kept leaking occasionally because people from the venues managed to discreetely save a copy of the soundboard recording. Again the story of many those soundboard can be traced when you know the right people.

In a same way the way things happened with TBA and Lovesexy has been intensively documented and there is no need for conspiracy theories about Prince doing it all on purpose. It happened the way we were told it happened, and contrarily to popular belief we were not told how it happened by Prince himself, the whole story was revealed years later by Per Nilsen and Uptown.

I understand that the "Prince leaked it all" and "Prince planned the whole TBA thing" theories can be seducing for newbies or people with great imagination, but everyone who's been a fan for a long time, knows enough long term fans and has read enough about all that stuff will tell you that no, Prince didn't leak those songs and shows on purpose.

All true. Then he goes and sells a DAT tape to a radio station knowing full well the tracks would be all over bootlegs. Not debatin', just sayin'....

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

How various recordings (both outtakes and soundboard shows) have leaked is pretty documented: people "in the know" know of many sources, and even here on the Org some leaks have been explained over the years. Apparently no one stole tracks from the vault, or if they did they never got caught, but Prince was careless all those tapes were widely distributed to friends, girlfriends, bandmembers, engineers, collaborators of all sorts and record company execs.

We also know how Prince changed his policy very radically regarding giving tapes, hence the total lack of outtakes leaks after 1996. As for the soundboards, they kept leaking occasionally because people from the venues managed to discreetely save a copy of the soundboard recording. Again the story of many those soundboard can be traced when you know the right people.

In a same way the way things happened with TBA and Lovesexy has been intensively documented and there is no need for conspiracy theories about Prince doing it all on purpose. It happened the way we were told it happened, and contrarily to popular belief we were not told how it happened by Prince himself, the whole story was revealed years later by Per Nilsen and Uptown.

I understand that the "Prince leaked it all" and "Prince planned the whole TBA thing" theories can be seducing for newbies or people with great imagination, but everyone who's been a fan for a long time, knows enough long term fans and has read enough about all that stuff will tell you that no, Prince didn't leak those songs and shows on purpose.

All true. Then he goes and sells a DAT tape to a radio station knowing full well the tracks would be all over bootlegs. Not debatin', just sayin'....

The 1994 DAT tapes (live and studio) are promos, even if they were "homemade" and only distributed to a handful of radio stations. Obviously yes they would be bootlegged but so would the Parade Detroit shows or the 3 Nude Tour shows that were aired on TV and radio, and of course The Beautiful Experience film later that year: those kind of promo tapes are to be recorded by fans then bootlegged. Regarding specifically the 1994 tapes it was also in a very specific context where Prince was struggling with WB to have the music released the way he wanted, and he was exploring alternative distribution means. Those tapes were a great gift to us fans, and succeeded (alongside the TBE film) at creating a hype around the "new" sound.

Still, in the end they were official promos from Paisley Park, endorsed stuff, not tracks that popped out of nowhere.

unless a truckload of artists are lying about what they finished recording with him and didnt release then no, there is no way in the world he released it all. OH and he would have to be the biggest liar as well,so would his sound engineers and video producers cause they say there is several times over what he actually put out officially and that every year he was recording a few hundred tracks

I agree with databank, and the consensus, that Prince was not behind releasing bootlegs. But, I do think he took advantage of the mystique and underground legend status that developed.

For instance, I believe the "story" about the Black Album is more or less true, but, I think he was well aware of, and took advantage of, the hype that came from the album being pulled and bootlegged.

jjam said:

There is no way that he leaked stuff.

But it's already been documented how he used to be very free and easy passing on music to band members, friends, girlfriends...wasn't it even said that a former band member was responsible for the selling one of the live recordings that constituted the City Lights bootleg box set?

yeah,Prince may not have "leaked" the music himself,but he was very careless with his unreleased music....giving tapes to friends and associates.His carelessness is the reason why WE have so much of that stuff,lol.

djThunderfunk said:

I agree with databank, and the consensus, that Prince was not behind releasing bootlegs. But, I do think he took advantage of the mystique and underground legend status that developed.

For instance, I believe the "story" about the Black Album is more or less true, but, I think he was well aware of, and took advantage of, the hype that came from the album being pulled and bootlegged.

I agree with this.I think he enjoyed the fact that 'The Black Album' made its way to the bootleg market.The hype and media attention was tremendous.

SoulAlive said:

djThunderfunk said:

I agree with databank, and the consensus, that Prince was not behind releasing bootlegs. But, I do think he took advantage of the mystique and underground legend status that developed.

For instance, I believe the "story" about the Black Album is more or less true, but, I think he was well aware of, and took advantage of, the hype that came from the album being pulled and bootlegged.

I agree with this.I think he enjoyed the fact that 'The Black Album' made its way to the bootleg market.The hype and media attention was tremendous.

The problem(for him) is it probably sold better than lovesexy

djThunderfunk said:

I agree with databank, and the consensus, that Prince was not behind releasing bootlegs. But, I do think he took advantage of the mystique and underground legend status that developed.

For instance, I believe the "story" about the Black Album is more or less true, but, I think he was well aware of, and took advantage of, the hype that came from the album being pulled and bootlegged.

Absolutely: Prince was smart and new how to play with all the mystique around him.

This recent innerview with Mo Ostin corroborates what we know and shows that even Mo was afraid of P's reaction regarding undestroyed copies: http://www.billboard.com/...in-prince#

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

databank said:

How various recordings (both outtakes and soundboard shows) have leaked is pretty documented: people "in the know" know of many sources, and even here on the Org some leaks have been explained over the years. Apparently no one stole tracks from the vault, or if they did they never got caught, but Prince was careless all those tapes were widely distributed to friends, girlfriends, bandmembers, engineers, collaborators of all sorts and record company execs.

We also know how Prince changed his policy very radically regarding giving tapes, hence the total lack of outtakes leaks after 1996. As for the soundboards, they kept leaking occasionally because people from the venues managed to discreetely save a copy of the soundboard recording. Again the story of many those soundboard can be traced when you know the right people.

In a same way the way things happened with TBA and Lovesexy has been intensively documented and there is no need for conspiracy theories about Prince doing it all on purpose. It happened the way we were told it happened, and contrarily to popular belief we were not told how it happened by Prince himself, the whole story was revealed years later by Per Nilsen and Uptown.

I understand that the "Prince leaked it all" and "Prince planned the whole TBA thing" theories can be seducing for newbies or people with great imagination, but everyone who's been a fan for a long time, knows enough long term fans and has read enough about all that stuff will tell you that no, Prince didn't leak those songs and shows on purpose.

great informative post!!

Thank you databank!!

much love

I don't believe that. Prince was a genius. Meaning I believe he was too smart to not have known if he gave his tapes out that they would be bootlegged. It is possible that maybe initially he didn't realize, but to have continued to have done that for all of those years, from '78-96 without hesitation to me makes it seem that at that time he knew exactly what he was doing. Something made him change his mind in '96. My guess is that it was after his contract with Warner Brothers was fulfilled.

[Edited 5/30/16 4:55am]

Sometimes tells me you've already made up your mind on this one.

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

great informative post!!

Thank you databank!!

much love

I don't believe that. Prince was a genius. Meaning I believe he was too smart to not have known if he gave his tapes out that they would be bootlegged. It is possible that maybe initially he didn't realize, but to have continued to have done that for all of those years, from '78-96 without hesitation to me makes it seem that at that time he knew exactly what he was doing. Something made him change his mind in '96. My guess is that it was after his contract with Warner Brothers was fulfilled.

[Edited 5/30/16 4:55am]

It was reported many times that he was infuriated by those leaks. Now did he know that by distributing tapes there was a risk? Yes. Was he willing to take that risk? Yes. Did he imagine the songs would leak by the hundreds? Apparently no. I mean just think of how many people have broken Prince's trust just by selling those tapes to bootleggers? It didn't all come from one single person! Did Prince tolerate it? At first. Was he happy about it? According to every report he wasn't: Alan Leeds even reported there was a witch hunt at some point in the late 80's or early 90's, to figure out if someone was stealing tapes (they found no one and Leeds himself rationalizes it was all those gift tape and carelessness).

I can imagine how frustrating it would have been for this young genius to have all that great stuff, some of it released months if not years after being recorded, some of it never to be released at all, and how much he needed at least some people to hear it, as in a day after it was recorded. God knows he complained many times that the music was always "late". P's life in 95-96 became very different: he fired all the staff from PP, he stopped having a label and opening his studio to other artists, he became more reclusive, remained in a very closed circle by comparison to before, he was free from WB... I guess he just made-up his mind about taking risks and made peace with no one else hearing the songs.

So now anyway the question really was "did Prince leak all those songs intentionally", as in making sure they would be bootlegged? The reply to that, as far as our knowledge goes, is no.

But yes, the stuff was carelessely given away, not stolen, so Prince has a share of responsibility in the leaks. It doesn't mean it was some great scheming on his part, he was just careless.

Now Prince is gone and who knows, maybe unthinkable things will be revealed by people who were close to him, but so far this is what we know.

mailaccount63 said:

Hopefully, some day, we will learn the answers.

Thing is we probably have.

databank said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

I don't believe that. Prince was a genius. Meaning I believe he was too smart to not have known if he gave his tapes out that they would be bootlegged. It is possible that maybe initially he didn't realize, but to have continued to have done that for all of those years, from '78-96 without hesitation to me makes it seem that at that time he knew exactly what he was doing. Something made him change his mind in '96. My guess is that it was after his contract with Warner Brothers was fulfilled.

[Edited 5/30/16 4:55am]

It was reported many times that he was infuriated by those leaks. Now did he know that by distributing tapes there was a risk? Yes. Was he willing to take that risk? Yes. Did he imagine the songs would leak by the hundreds? Apparently no. I mean just think of how many people have broken Prince's trust just by selling those tapes to bootleggers? It didn't all come from one single person! Did Prince tolerate it? At first. Was he happy about it? According to every report he wasn't: Alan Leeds even reported there was a witch hunt at some point in the late 80's or early 90's, to figure out if someone was stealing tapes (they found no one and Leeds himself rationalizes it was all those gift tape and carelessness).

I can imagine how frustrating it would have been for this young genius to have all that great stuff, some of it released months if not years after being recorded, some of it never to be released at all, and how much he needed at least some people to hear it, as in a day after it was recorded. God knows he complained many times that the music was always "late". P's life in 95-96 became very different: he fired all the staff from PP, he stopped having a label and opening his studio to other artists, he became more reclusive, remained in a very closed circle by comparison to before, he was free from WB... I guess he just made-up his mind about taking risks and made peace with no one else hearing the songs.

So now anyway the question really was "did Prince leak all those songs intentionally", as in making sure they would be bootlegged? The reply to that, as far as our knowledge goes, is no.

But yes, the stuff was carelessely given away, not stolen, so Prince has a share of responsibility in the leaks. It doesn't mean it was some great scheming on his part, he was just careless.

Now Prince is gone and who knows, maybe unthinkable things will be revealed by people who were close to him, but so far this is what we know.

that's what I wanted to read!!! Thank you so much databank!!