DiscoBallz said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

Thanks for you interest in the thread, your comments are appreciated. We had quite a discussion about Empty Rooms too.

.

Empty Rooms has a unique history.
It was initially recorded on 4 Aug 1985 as a Studio recording that wasn’t released.
Prince then revisited the song mid-late March 1992 Studio re-recording again for movie ‘I’ll do Anything’ but it wasn’t used in the film and it wasn’t released.
Then in late 1994 a Video version was made (using 1985 recording)
The 1994 Video version was then shown over March 1995 on the UK tour only (3-30 Mar 1995) which coincides with Vanity getting married 26 March 1995.
.
The video hasn't been shown since March 1995.
No studio version of the track that’s been issued.
This seems odd as he's very fond of this song and it’s a great track.
.
He has performed it occasionally in live shows in 2002, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2014 and he has recorded it in live performances (2002, 2011, 2014).
.
During one of his live performances, I believe during the ONA tour in the early 2000's where he was talking to the audience and he asked the crowd had they ever had their hearts broke. He talked about how the person has been long gone and you still reminisce about that love.
.
That comment is actually on prince.org where he states:
"Have you ever come in the bathroom where your significant other was and found a strand of hair on the sink?
She long gone... been gone two months you take the hair out you just look at it and you just reminisce...
you just reminisce
you so upset you take the hair and tape it on the bathroom window
to remind you of the love
have you all had your heart broke talk to me TONIGHT!"-Prince proceeds to sing ER again
.
I don’t know anything about Susannah’s timeframe or relationship with Prince. Was she with Prince when this song was written? Perhaps you can tell me whether this comment applies and then if you think the song still relates to her?

[Edited 5/31/16 12:48pm]

Yes, he was with Susannah when he recorded Empty Room. It is one of those classic Susannah songs - much like The Beautiful Ones, Strange Relationship, Adore, Big Tall Wall, Crystal Ball, and countless others have been known to be.

-

I think it is perfectly understandable for a musician to apply certain feelings to a wide spectrum of people. Just because he wrote Empty Room about Susannah doesn't mean he never found some of Mani's hair in the bathroom, etc. Prince wrote about specific topics, but rarely wrote so specifically that a song was absolutely, very clearly about one specific person - save for things like Crystal Ball where he actually refers to something that happened in real life (Susannah painting the walls in Paisley Park).

So if he was with Susannah how could he have written this song about her? He clearly states in his own words is about someone who's " She long gone... been gone two months you take the hair out you just look at it and you just reminisce..."

SunnyGirl8 said:

DiscoBallz said:

Yes, he was with Susannah when he recorded Empty Room. It is one of those classic Susannah songs - much like The Beautiful Ones, Strange Relationship, Adore, Big Tall Wall, Crystal Ball, and countless others have been known to be.

-

I think it is perfectly understandable for a musician to apply certain feelings to a wide spectrum of people. Just because he wrote Empty Room about Susannah doesn't mean he never found some of Mani's hair in the bathroom, etc. Prince wrote about specific topics, but rarely wrote so specifically that a song was absolutely, very clearly about one specific person - save for things like Crystal Ball where he actually refers to something that happened in real life (Susannah painting the walls in Paisley Park).

So if he was with Susannah how could he have written this song about her? He clearly states in his own words is about someone who's " She long gone... been gone two months you take the hair out you just look at it and you just reminisce..."

He's just applying a relateable circusmstance to the song. He's relating to his audience. It's not always SO literal.

PurpleMusic07 said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

So if he was with Susannah how could he have written this song about her? He clearly states in his own words is about someone who's " She long gone... been gone two months you take the hair out you just look at it and you just reminisce..."

He's just applying a relateable circusmstance to the song. He's relating to his audience. It's not always SO literal.

Ok. So how do you know that?

SunnyGirl8 said:

PurpleMusic07 said:

He's just applying a relateable circusmstance to the song. He's relating to his audience. It's not always SO literal.

Ok. So how do you know that?

I don't, none of us KNOW anything! Lol unless there are folk here that know all or some of the playesr. However, as someone previously stated he wrote the song during a time when they broke up. If you are to believe any of the stories surrounding their history then you know that them breaking up and making up was a common thing. So it's very possible that he DID write this song about her during a time when they had broken up, and hell maybe the 2 months thing is referring to her too.

SunnyGirl8 said:

paisleypark4 said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

DiscoBallz said:

Yes, he was with Susannah when he recorded Empty Room. It is one of those classic Susannah songs - much like The Beautiful Ones, Strange Relationship, Adore, Big Tall Wall, Crystal Ball, and countless others have been known to be.

-

I think it is perfectly understandable for a musician to apply certain feelings to a wide spectrum of people. Just because he wrote Empty Room about Susannah doesn't mean he never found some of Mani's hair in the bathroom, etc. Prince wrote about specific topics, but rarely wrote so specifically that a song was absolutely, very clearly about one specific person - save for things like Crystal Ball where he actually refers to something that happened in real life (Susannah painting the walls in Paisley Park).

So if he was with Susannah how could he have written this song about her? He clearly states in his own words is about someone who's " She long gone... been gone two months you take the hair out you just look at it and you just reminisce..."

Because Prince and Susannah broke up many times during their several year romance.

PurpleMusic07 said:

keenly said:

Hogwash

What is the substance you use to wash your hog?

This thread is interesting because it seems as if there is a big push to say Susannah was the muse

None of us know for sure but Prince was with alot of peeps- I will never believe it was all for

Susannah.

I do know there is a messasge in his songs and I do think their is a common thread and no way do I ever or will I ever say it was for Susannah-

I view his vids differently now because I am seeing symbolisms, and images (like the mirror that are consistent) Prince was a genius and master at lyrics and double/triple meanings. The mirrors are an interesting concept.

Vashtix said:

This thread is interesting because it seems as if there is a big push to say Susannah was the muse

None of us know for sure but Prince was with alot of peeps- I will never believe it was all for

Susannah.

I do know there is a messasge in his songs and I do think their is a common thread and no way do I ever or will I ever say it was for Susannah-

I view his vids differently now because I am seeing symbolisms, and images (like the mirror that are consistent) Prince was a genius and master at lyrics and double/triple meanings. The mirrors are an interesting concept.

I agree. I don't think it's crazy or insane to make the connections between the mirrors in Prince's videos and Vanity. Isn't one of the definitions of vanity- a dresser with a mirror? Prince used symbolism and metaphors all throughout his music, he was a lyrical genius. It think it would be more crazy to think he wouldn't do something like that. Was every song autobiographical? Maybe not, but I believe many were. Was every single about Vanity? Again, no, but I believe many were. One thing I won't do is take information from third-party biased biographies and use them as gospel about who or what a particular song is about. I will, however, take Prince's straight up words that he gave. Peace.

[Edited 5/31/16 15:55pm]

Vashtix said:

This thread is interesting because it seems as if there is a big push to say Susannah was the muse

None of us know for sure but Prince was with alot of peeps- I will never believe it was all for

Susannah.

I do know there is a messasge in his songs and I do think their is a common thread and no way do I ever or will I ever say it was for Susannah-

I view his vids differently now because I am seeing symbolisms, and images (like the mirror that are consistent) Prince was a genius and master at lyrics and double/triple meanings. The mirrors are an interesting concept.

Thanks

purplegirl00 said:

Vashtix said:

This thread is interesting because it seems as if there is a big push to say Susannah was the muse

None of us know for sure but Prince was with alot of peeps- I will never believe it was all for

Susannah.

I do know there is a messasge in his songs and I do think their is a common thread and no way do I ever or will I ever say it was for Susannah-

I view his vids differently now because I am seeing symbolisms, and images (like the mirror that are consistent) Prince was a genius and master at lyrics and double/triple meanings. The mirrors are an interesting concept.

I agree. I don't think it's crazy or insane to make the connections between the mirrors in Prince's videos and Vanity. Isn't one of the definitions of vanity- a dresser with a mirror? Prince used symbolism and metaphors all throughout his music, he was a lyrical genius. It think it would be more crazy to think he wouldn't do something like that. Was every song autobiographical? Maybe not, but I believe many were. Was every single about Vanity? Again, no, but I believe many were. One thing I won't do is take information from third-party biased biographies and use them as gospel about who or what a particular song is about. I will, however, take Prince's straight up words that he gave. Peace.

[Edited 5/31/16 15:55pm]

Thanks

Vanity/Denise was one of the many loves of Prince

captiveunicorn said:

The problem for me with the Denise/Prince discussion and in the main thread on this topic is that you guys only seem prepared to accept confirmatory evidence. The thread that Denise was his one true love was based (initially) on the links between their passing and now 65 pages later has gotten to the point that pretty much anything Prince said or did is being taken as "proof". When you're a hammer the whole world looks like a nail. The fact that he wrote songs about other women and married other women and clearly loved other women at different points in his life has not been respected but instead trivialized and argued that these were only reactions to events happening in Denise's life. You can have a theory that Denise was the love of his life but that doesn't mean everything was about her - acknowledging the contrary evidence doesn't diminish your theory, it just allows the reality that not everything he ever said or did was about her or motivated by her. [Edited 5/31/16 17:29pm]

It is true Prince had many loves and 2 wives; clearly he had relationships with other women besides

Denise. I have not seen anyone belittle the wives, or his other relationships - His death is still so

recent . . . it seems there is loads of respect because there is a lot of mourning going on and will be along time.

All of you guys are making such valid points. I take each into consideration, but from personal experience, I know what a "forever love" feels like, and no matter how many times we part and reunite, nothing compares. That said, I will not put words in Prince's mouth, nor will I put thoughts in his mind. I think we're all here to find healing in his passing. If it takes controversial conversations like this to help us move on, then please just be respectful in agreements and disagreements.

RodeoSchro said:

keenly said:

Hogwash

What is the substance you use to wash your hog?

OMG...LOL....I so appreciate how you guys break up my grieving with laughter!!!

If you want to argue that mirrors symbolise Vanity/Denise, you have to look at every time Prince used mirrors in a song lyric or video, not just the ones that you can make 'fit' with what you want them to mean.

For example, from the OP:

"1991 - Diamonds & Pearls, Diamonds & Pearls - There is a female dancer in the mirror that looks like Vanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VKJIdmL1VU"

I just watched that video and Prince has his back to the mirror while he watches a girl dancing in front of him. If that mirror symbolises Denise/Vanity as per the theory, wouldn't that suggest he has literally turned his back on her and is in love with someone else? That would be my interpretation.

Also - how about in 'Gett Off' when Prince mentions a mirror - "Something about a little box with a
Mirror and a tongue inside". Do you think he was referring to Denise then? Is Gett Off now about her too?

Prince also wrote songs 'Be my mirror' and 'Objects in the mirror' - both demonstrably not about Denise.

I don't have time or inclination to contribute beyond this post to the Prince/Denise discussion but just putting that out there as a couple of examples that would tend not to support the theory.

captiveunicorn said:

If you want to argue that mirrors symbolise Vanity/Denise, you have to look at every time Prince used mirrors in a song lyric or video, not just the ones that you can make 'fit' with what you want them to mean.

For example, from the OP:

"1991 - Diamonds & Pearls, Diamonds & Pearls - There is a female dancer in the mirror that looks like Vanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VKJIdmL1VU"

I just watched that video and Prince has his back to the mirror while he watches a girl dancing in front of him. If that mirror symbolises Denise/Vanity as per the theory, wouldn't that suggest he has literally turned his back on her and is in love with someone else? That would be my interpretation.

Also - how about in 'Gett Off' when Prince mentions a mirror - "Something about a little box with a
Mirror and a tongue inside". Do you think he was referring to Denise then? Is Gett Off now about her too?

Prince also wrote songs 'Be my mirror' and 'Objects in the mirror' - both demonstrably not about Denise.

I don't have time or inclination to contribute beyond this post to the Prince/Denise discussion but just putting that out there as a couple of examples that would tend not to support the theory.

Hi CaptiveUnicorn

Thanks for your post. Regarding Diamonds & Pearls there is obviously a dancer in the room with him throughout the video. Between 1:13 -1:22 on this link you'll see her in the mirror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VKJIdmL1VU

As mentioned in the post above, those were the examples we stumbled on. But thank you for highlighting those songs and when I get time I'll have a look at them

[Edited 5/31/16 20:04pm]

captiveunicorn said:

The problem for me with the Denise/Prince discussion and in the main thread on this topic is that you guys only seem prepared to accept confirmatory evidence. The thread that Denise was his one true love was based (initially) on the links between their passing and now 65 pages later has gotten to the point that pretty much anything Prince said or did is being taken as "proof". When you're a hammer the whole world looks like a nail. The fact that he wrote songs about other women and married other women and clearly loved other women at different points in his life has not been respected but instead trivialized and argued that these were only reactions to events happening in Denise's life. You can have a theory that Denise was the love of his life but that doesn't mean everything was about her - acknowledging the contrary evidence doesn't diminish your theory, it just allows the reality that not everything he ever said or did was about her or motivated by her. [Edited 5/31/16 17:29pm]

I'm sorry if you have that impression. That thread has made a big effort to not discuss any of his significant others out of respect at this time. I can only speak for myself in that I have no position either way with regards to anyone he had in his life. They are all significant.

roxy831 said:

All of you guys are making such valid points. I take each into consideration, but from personal experience, I know what a "forever love" feels like, and no matter how many times we part and reunite, nothing compares. That said, I will not put words in Prince's mouth, nor will I put thoughts in his mind. I think we're all here to find healing in his passing. If it takes controversial conversations like this to help us move on, then please just be respectful in agreements and disagreements.