I think we can all agree that one thread about Elvis in a forum titled "Prince Music and More" is one too many. Two is two too many.

http://prince.org/msg/7/426408

phoenixrising said:

Prince would never go onstage drunk or high. Have you heard Elvis try to do are you lonesome tonight while stoned off his gourd? Prince would never have put himself in that situation.

Don't talk about Elvis like that; you're kicking a man when he's down, and dead. He suffered badly and had a lonely life. It's not a comparable situation at all.

How the hell do people pit Prince against Elvis? They're not even similar to me. A more apt comparison would be Michael Jackson vs. Elvis. Elvis' main gig was his showmanship, charisma and image, while Prince was always about the music first.

smoothcriminal12 said:

How the hell do people pit Prince against Elvis? They're not even similar to me. A more apt comparison would be Michael Jackson vs. Elvis. Elvis' main gig was his showmanship, charisma and image, while Prince was always about the music first.

Yup-- Elvis never even wrote a song, he played instruments only at a basic level. Performance wise he was untouchable, he had something magic to him. The non-writing, not-really-playing superstar; the last of his kind. Sinatra is a fair comparison. Not Prince, a one-in-a-trillion auteur freak who literally wrote and performed music more than he slept.

[Edited 5/29/16 19:40pm]

MrSquiggle said:

-- Elvis never even wrote a song, he played instruments only at a basic level.

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A) He did write songs.

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B) Played instruments at only a basic level??? Uhh, haven't you ever heard that the voice is a musical instrument?

MrSquiggle said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

How the hell do people pit Prince against Elvis? They're not even similar to me. A more apt comparison would be Michael Jackson vs. Elvis. Elvis' main gig was his showmanship, charisma and image, while Prince was always about the music first.

Yup-- Elvis never even wrote a song, he played instruments only at a basic level. Performance wise he was untouchable, he had something magic to him. The non-writing, not-really-playing superstar; the last of his kind. Sinatra is a fair comparison. Not Prince, a one-in-a-trillion auteur freak who literally wrote and performed music more than he slept.

[Edited 5/29/16 19:40pm]

Elvis also had that voice...it was like ''black velvet, with that little boy smile...black velvet in that slow southern style....'' love that song about Elvis

Cloreen said:

MrSquiggle said:

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A) He did write songs.

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B) Played instruments at only a basic level??? Uhh, haven't you ever heard that the voice is a musical instrument?

A) technically there are like three songs that he co-wrote. none of them are famous. there are a bunch that he got writing credit on for legal reasons that he had nothing to do with writing, i'm not counting those either.

B) i think it was obvious what i meant

Elvis was supposed to be a pretty kick-ass bass player.

Elvis was great, he changed the world we live in, Prince had great respect for him and mimicked many of his moves. also, found it interesting that one of his old managers said "he wanted to be Elvis". Elvis' influence was inescapable in this genre of music. But it's also true that prince never, (unless you believe he was high during the James Brown/MJ performance as some do) was caught out of it. That's the part that kills me about his death. You can't be that kind of addict and not slip up, just not possible, I don't really understand it. Elvis didn't go out stoned because he wanted people to see him fucked up, he went out stoned because he was an addict. If you've been around addicts, I don't know, i haven't known any that could hide their addiction.

PeteSilas said:

Elvis was also forced into some pretty dodgy deals/contracts where he was tied to Mafia ran hotels, so he had to perform.

Prince's contract argumants with WB were nothing like what Elvis had to deal with.

Musically I do not think Elvis and Prince can be compared, all you can say is they were both the greatest showman/performers of their time.

MIInsane said:

Elvis was supposed to be a pretty kick-ass bass player.

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Yes, he was. The one legendary night when he met The Beatles he actually played bass with them.

Wish someone had been rolling a tape that night.

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[img:$uid]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TO6gRAP3Hu0/ThE2pUI2roI/AAAAAAAAAMs/6Y1aRQL7Ybw/s1600/1965commercialappeal.jpg[/img:$uid]

Cloreen said:

MIInsane said:

Elvis was supposed to be a pretty kick-ass bass player.

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Yes, he was. The one legendary night when he met The Beatles he actually played bass with them.

Wish someone had been rolling a tape that night.

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[img:$uid]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TO6gRAP3Hu0/ThE2pUI2roI/AAAAAAAAAMs/6Y1aRQL7Ybw/s1600/1965commercialappeal.jpg[/img:$uid]

ironic thing is, Elvis was a better Pianist than he was a guitarist. His rhythm guitar playing was powerful if basic, johnny cash said he was surprised by how little was made of how great a rhythm guitarist he was. People deride Elvis for many things regarding music, and who knows why he didn't learn more or practice more, why didn't he write, maybe he just had no interest in those areas. My theory of why he stopped improving as a musician was because he was too busy being a star, travelling, appearances, making movies, etc.., I have no doubt he could have been a lot better if he wanted to be, it's just a matter of practice.

suomynona said:

I think we can all agree that one thread about Elvis in a forum titled "Prince Music and More" is one too many. Two is two too many.

http://prince.org/msg/7/426408

You do realize that this forum has moderators, right? If you see a problem - report it. Posting in every fucking thread you object to is beyond irritating.

Elvis was not a musician, he couldn't sing or play any instrument well. Please never mention him in the same sentence as Prince again.

PeteSilas said:

johnny cash said he was surprised by how little was made of how great a rhythm guitarist he was.

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Well, Johnny Cash knew about 5 chords so he might not be the finest judge of guitar virtuosity!

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Where did this idea come from that Elvis was great on bass? I'm aware that he liked to jam on bass a bit, but it doesn't follow that he was great on it.

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Elvis could certainly play piano as an accompaniment to himself, if not at professional level. He knew a lot of hymns and such. His guitar playing was rudimentary, but not incompetent.

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Sorry, why are we comparing Elvis and Prince....??? (I must have missed that memo.)

computerblue77 said:

Elvis was not a musician, he couldn't sing or play any instrument well. Please never mention him in the same sentence as Prince again.

That's one thing I really don't get about comparisons between Prince and Michael Jackson, either. Nobody seems to know what instruments he could really play, if any. That speaks volumes. Chalk and cheese.

elvis was a musician, he was a great singer, and he was a genius in the art of being a star. In that way he influenced everyone including Prince. We could talk about this all day but suffice it to say that Elvis was a talent that had an impact impossible to match. Probably the things he did best and doesn't get any credit for was his ability as an arranger and producer. I doubt he thought of himself as doing those things when he did them but he did. I once told a music teacher of mine "he couldn't even play the guitar" his reply? "He did enough".

FragileUndertow said:

Am I being Punked!? Prince vs. Elvis will mods lock this? Lol

Just because they're both dead. Imagine this thread six months ago.

PeteSilas said:

elvis was a musician, he was a great singer, and he was a genius in the art of being a star. In that way he influenced everyone including Prince. We could talk about this all day but suffice it to say that Elvis was a talent that had an impact impossible to match. Probably the things he did best and doesn't get any credit for was his ability as an arranger and producer. I doubt he thought of himself as doing those things when he did them but he did. I once told a music teacher of mine "he couldn't even play the guitar" his reply? "He did enough".

PeteSilas said:

elvis was a musician, he was a great singer, and he was a genius in the art of being a star. In that way he influenced everyone including Prince. We could talk about this all day but suffice it to say that Elvis was a talent that had an impact impossible to match. Probably the things he did best and doesn't get any credit for was his ability as an arranger and producer. I doubt he thought of himself as doing those things when he did them but he did. I once told a music teacher of mine "he couldn't even play the guitar" his reply? "He did enough".

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I agree with you except in the point that Elvis was "a talent that had an impact impossible to match". Elvis was certainly a talent, but I think it's sort-of clear with retrospect that part of his impact was his being a handsome young white guy (at the moment network television went mainstream), and that had nothing to do with talent.

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I don't want to get into a debate over how 'authentic' Elvis was as a rock'n'roll singer or how much he appropriated black-culture (a dead-end discussion that has nothing to do with Elvis's intuitive artistry), but I do think that, circa 1955-56, there had to emerge a handsome, young, straight white guy who would be the beacon of mainstream rock'n'roll. There weren't many such guys to choose from at that stage, and Elvis was that guy.

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(I am an Elvis fan, by the way, and I'm not condemning him personally in any way -- merely pointing out that some of his large impact was to do with what he embodied more than who he actually was.)

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I guess I could also point out that the "impossible to match" part is also not really true, since The Beatles matched his impact in their own time and almost certainly surpassed his impact when measured over subsequent decades.

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I'm still not clear what any of this has to do with Prince. Prince's unique talents and general aesthetic seem not at all comparable to Elvis, and obviously Elvis's impact was enormously larger than Prince's.

I will never disrespect Elvis and he wrote more songs than he was given credit for because he didn't know the bidness.

ThePanther said:

PeteSilas said:

elvis was a musician, he was a great singer, and he was a genius in the art of being a star. In that way he influenced everyone including Prince. We could talk about this all day but suffice it to say that Elvis was a talent that had an impact impossible to match. Probably the things he did best and doesn't get any credit for was his ability as an arranger and producer. I doubt he thought of himself as doing those things when he did them but he did. I once told a music teacher of mine "he couldn't even play the guitar" his reply? "He did enough".

.

I agree with you except in the point that Elvis was "a talent that had an impact impossible to match". Elvis was certainly a talent, but I think it's sort-of clear with retrospect that part of his impact was his being a handsome young white guy (at the moment network television went mainstream), and that had nothing to do with talent.

.

I don't want to get into a debate over how 'authentic' Elvis was as a rock'n'roll singer or how much he appropriated black-culture (a dead-end discussion that has nothing to do with Elvis's intuitive artistry), but I do think that, circa 1955-56, there had to emerge a handsome, young, straight white guy who would be the beacon of mainstream rock'n'roll. There weren't many such guys to choose from at that stage, and Elvis was that guy.

.

(I am an Elvis fan, by the way, and I'm not condemning him personally in any way -- merely pointing out that some of his large impact was to do with what he embodied more than who he actually was.)

.

I guess I could also point out that the "impossible to match" part is also not really true, since The Beatles matched his impact in their own time and almost certainly surpassed his impact when measured over subsequent decades.

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I'm still not clear what any of this has to do with Prince. Prince's unique talents and general aesthetic seem not at all comparable to Elvis, and obviously Elvis's impact was enormously larger than Prince's.

Elvis was special for a lot of reasons going way past anything musical. His imagery, his stage act all revolutionized the music world and affected everyone including our guy Prince. He was good enough for Prince but not for you guys.

McD said:

They're incomparable. You might as well ask about Prince vs Oprah Winfrey. It's worth pointing out that a good Elvis Impersonator belongs in a group with about 200,000 other bums. A good Sinatra impersonator is probably a household name and worth $50m. But Elvis fans will tell you all manner of BS. We've already had his songwriting and musicianship praised on here. And he was also a great producer apparently, despite the fact he had to be told to stop banging his mic on his leg between singing lines. This was hilariously spun by a biographer as Elvis caring so so much about the music he couldn't help sabotaging a recording session with his (probably drunken) mic swings.

elvis' best stuff was largely his creative work. The sun sessions, the memphis records. Have you even listened to those in full? But, of course he had the great chemistry of Sam Phillips and Scotty Moore and Bill Black. As a creative force, I don't think anyone changed more. Of course there were the other guys and the glass ceiling of racism so there were limits on what Chuck or Little Richard could do, both super talents. When we speak of Elvis, we are speaking about more than musical talent though, we're talking about ideals, some that he couldn't live up to in the end, we're talking about having a vision and a dream, he was all about that. And yes, it went all wrong somehow.

PeteSilas said:

And yes, it went all wrong somehow.

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Somehow? Drugs and a manager who ultimately just went for the fast money and never grasped the bigger picture...that's how it went wrong.

Cloreen said:

PeteSilas said:

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Somehow? Drugs and a manager who ultimately just went for the fast money and never grasped the bigger picture...that's how it went wrong.

ya, along with doctors who did what he wanted them to do and his own megalomania. Some people blame the colonel, I know I do, but wierdly, Peter Guralnick, whose books are the Elvis Bibles, doesn't say a bad thing about the colonel.

and get this, i read an article yesterday where dr. Nick was trying to put the blame on an elvis head injury saying that after the 1967 concussion "he was never the same". I read that as Nick trying to take the blame away from himself for overprescribing. The biggest problem I see with my heroes is a problem of boundless ego being constantly fed, it's ultimately soul destroying and actually just ruins some nice, decent people.