homesquid said:

Ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with Tony M. He may be a generic rapper but that's the sound Prince wanted.

Hi Tony

As much as I'm not a fan of Tony M's contributions he's far from the only thing that's wrong with Prince's output of that era imo, My Name Is Prince would still be a corny piece of crap to me regardless of whether Tony M's rap is on it or not. But on the other hand I would love to hear a sort of "single-edit" version of Love 2 The 9s with the mid-section removed, I would try making an edit myself in Audacity but I don't have the skills to

TheDigitalGardener said:

It was ex orger ernestsewell who made the Tony M free Symbol album.

I remember his Planet Earth copy cover

If only I could unsee that

MattyJam said:

Rebeljuice said:

NorthC said:

Rebeljuice said:

It has been done by a fan. I have it. Pretty good edit too.

I was joking. I explained in the post above that I think you shouldn't mess with an album like that.

Why not? If you have the skills to do it, it is probably fun. Are you against people that like to remix too? What about those that tracked their non tracked Lovesexy?

TrivialPursuit said:

MattyJam said:

Where is Ernest when you need him??

.

Here's the thread about the Tony M. free albums: http://prince.org/msg/7/327166

There i was bitching away.

Rebeljuice said:

NorthC said:

Rebeljuice said:

Why not? If you have the skills to do it, it is probably fun. Are you against people that like to remix too? What about those that tracked their non tracked Lovesexy?

No, I don't need to hear the remix of a Prince song by somebody else. And as for Lovesexy, in that case at least you're not messing with the music, but I do think this is the sort of album you need to listen to from beginning to end.

Unfortunately for people like you, once someone buys a piece of "art" they can do whatever they want to it. If I buy a car - which was designed by a group of people you could consider artists - and I wanted to paint it a different color or install a sounds system other than the factory sound system I can do that. Hell, I can even choose to change the tires and rims if I don't like them.

NorthC said:

Sorry guys, but this is really pissing me off. If Prince put Tony M or spoken parts on an album then that's how he wanted it to sound. Period. You don't mess with an artists' vision like that, as if you are a better judge of how Prince's music should sound than the man himself. If you don't like something, don't listen to it. It's as simple as that.

That's illogical. What if Picasso painted with his head tilted to the left, yet all his paintings were hung upright. Should everyone view them with their head tilted to the left? Should the painting be shifted instead? Art is about the viewer's interpretation. It's the whole "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" idea. Hell, raps are taken out of pop songs every day for particular radio station formats, or curse words edited, or something the whole thing is resung. I think of a simple pop song like Meaghan Trainor's "All About That Bass". Nothing dirty in it. I was on Kohl's, and it came on the p.a. system in the store. Every other line was different. A much more Disney-esque version. Was it wrong of her to rewrite her song for the sake of a corporation?

.

We are Prince fans. We are fanataics. We are family. We know Prince, and his music. His music is as new to us, as it is familiar. We can hear "Erotic City" and think "Wow, I never expected that", and still be able to say, "I knew that was Prince from the first note."

.

So if we want to cut out Tony M. from some otherwise great songs, goddamn it I'll do it. Those raps are typically near the end of the song. When you take them out, you realize they were an after thought. Prince never wrote "The Max" or "Daddy Pop" thinking "I'm going to put a rap here". He didn't even like rap earlier in the 80s. "Irresistible Bitch" was the closest he'd ever come to even mirroring that idea, much less pull in some generic douche like Tony M. to clutter up his songs. The songs are 100% stronger, and more focused, with Tony M.'s verbal blandness removed. The whole albums are straight forward, funky, with no distractions of trying to follow a trend. Get huffy if you want, but you can't tell anyone how to appreciate art anymore than you can tell Prince how to write a song.

NorthC said:

How do you know what was on Prince's mind when he wrote a song? He may have had plans to include a rapper on D&P from day one. After all, Tony was already featured on the NPG maxi single. And I was also thinking about Picasso, but in another way: imagine buying a Picasso painting and then saying: I don't like that part in the upper right corner, you know, I'll just cut it off. Yeah, the painting is much better now! [Edited 5/26/16 9:02am]

But Picasso didn't have some dumb shit crapping all over his work, did he?

to me,this album is so good that nothing spoils it.I even like Tony's contributions on songs like "Sexy MF" and "The Max".

NorthC said:

How do you know what was on Prince's mind when he wrote a song? He may have had plans to include a rapper on D&P from day one. After all, Tony was already featured on the NPG maxi single. And I was also thinking about Picasso, but in another way: imagine buying a Picasso painting and then saying: I don't like that part in the upper right corner, you know, I'll just cut it off. Yeah, the painting is much better now!

We know because ew know Prince's own words. Maybe you don't, but we've all read plenty on what he's said. It's pretty well known he added rap to his music to follow the trend. He wasn't creating any trends at that point, per se, in his music. He once asked Bob Cavallo "should I learn how to rap?", because he was so confused by this new genre at the time. And that was way before D&P or Graffiti Bridge.

.

As I stated before, when you realize where those raps are in the songs, you realize they were an after thought. Taking them out only shows what the song was originally meant to sound like, and that he just tacked on these horrid 16 measures for Tony M. to piss on because he was trying to be relevant. If you read the link I put in my previous reply, and other's replies after that, you'd realize he was on a mission with D&P to make a commercial album for the record company. Putting rap in was just another Top 40 trick. It wasn't Prince being true to himself. Prince was easily caught up in stuff that he'd soon lose interest in later. His career is scattered with unfinished projects, or ideas that never venture very far. His inclusion of Tony M.'s raps was just that. It was 2.5 years of cringing, whether it was Tony or TC Ellis.

MattyJam said:

NorthC said:

How do you know what was on Prince's mind when he wrote a song? He may have had plans to include a rapper on D&P from day one. After all, Tony was already featured on the NPG maxi single. And I was also thinking about Picasso, but in another way: imagine buying a Picasso painting and then saying: I don't like that part in the upper right corner, you know, I'll just cut it off. Yeah, the painting is much better now! [Edited 5/26/16 9:02am]

But Picasso didn't have some dumb shit crapping all over his work, did he?

.

MattyJam said:

marksinclair said:

I've got a good version of Clouds without the Mr Nelson...Mr Nelson spoken part. Sounds much better to me, found it online though the edit is slightly noticeable if you know the song well. Would be interested to hear the rainbow children without the voice over for sure!

I'm still waiting for the version featuring Bootsy to begin circulating!

Askani said:

MattyJam said:

Where is Ernest when you need him??

Ugh. Let's just be glad he's gone and not jinx it.

[Edited 5/26/16 13:35pm]

TrivialPursuit said:

NorthC said:

How do you know what was on Prince's mind when he wrote a song? He may have had plans to include a rapper on D&P from day one. After all, Tony was already featured on the NPG maxi single. And I was also thinking about Picasso, but in another way: imagine buying a Picasso painting and then saying: I don't like that part in the upper right corner, you know, I'll just cut it off. Yeah, the painting is much better now!

We know because ew know Prince's own words. Maybe you don't, but we've all read plenty on what he's said. It's pretty well known he added rap to his music to follow the trend. He wasn't creating any trends at that point, per se, in his music. He once asked Bob Cavallo "should I learn how to rap?", because he was so confused by this new genre at the time. And that was way before D&P or Graffiti Bridge.

.

As I stated before, when you realize where those raps are in the songs, you realize they were an after thought. Taking them out only shows what the song was originally meant to sound like, and that he just tacked on these horrid 16 measures for Tony M. to piss on because he was trying to be relevant. If you read the link I put in my previous reply, and other's replies after that, you'd realize he was on a mission with D&P to make a commercial album for the record company. Putting rap in was just another Top 40 trick. It wasn't Prince being true to himself. Prince was easily caught up in stuff that he'd soon lose interest in later. His career is scattered with unfinished projects, or ideas that never venture very far. His inclusion of Tony M.'s raps was just that. It was 2.5 years of cringing, whether it was Tony or TC Ellis.

Agree.

I never knew that he asked Bob Cavallo whether he should learn how to rap.

He shouldn´t have forced it. Prince had always incorporated current trends and new genres into his music, and I think he didn´t really need to use Tony M.

On the contrary, his reputation was pretty solid before he added fake rappers to his music, and it sounded very forced, especially Tony´s hypeman antics during the live shows, the constant "Say hoooooo, wave your hands in the air." bullshit to energize the audience when that wasn´t even really necessary.

I don´t even like those rap concert staples during real rap concert...they are just unnecessary in this day and age, especially if the songs are already good enough to keep the crowd moving.

Things would have worked out much better if he had let things happen naturally, maybe use rap elements like he did in Days of Wild and Now, or even 18 & Over but not the way he did around 91-93.

Those albums would have sold just fine without those added rap parts that really sound like an afterthought and very forced.

But on the other hand....when you think of some of those other rappers he used, like Scrap D, I think he was just trying to be nice and generous, giving some local rappers a chance to be on his album. Much to the detriment of said album and his fans.

I met Scrap D in 1996 and talked for quite some time with him, and while I dislike his contributions, it was interesting to speak about his experience and get to see his perspective on this.

KoolEaze said:

I don´t even like those rap concert staples during real rap concert...they are just unnecessary in this day and age, especially if the songs are already good enough to keep the crowd moving.

This is one reason I stopped listening to Mariah Carey's music.

First, she sounds like a pigeon in heat, with all that damn cooing.
Second, she's lost the better parts of her voice. Sometimes it's aging, sometimes it's other things.
Third, she has every two-bit rapper on a song or an album. She's so formulatic at this point, I can write a song for her, and no one would know the difference.

TrivialPursuit said:

KoolEaze said:

I don´t even like those rap concert staples during real rap concert...they are just unnecessary in this day and age, especially if the songs are already good enough to keep the crowd moving.

This is one reason I stopped listening to Mariah Carey's music.

First, she sounds like a pigeon in heat, with all that damn cooing.
Second, she's lost the better parts of her voice. Sometimes it's aging, sometimes it's other things.
Third, she has every two-bit rapper on a song or an album. She's so formulatic at this point, I can write a song for her, and no one would know the difference.

Yeah, the ubiquitous rapper who has to drop a verse or two on almost every RnB song is a trend that started in the 90s, was a cute idea for a minute (to some at least) and simply would not go away.

.

That´s what I like about Maxwell. He never gave in to that trend even though he likes rap.

Or D´Angelo.....same thing. The few collabos he did sounded authentic and from the heart, not like he was chasing trends.

Most rappers who add a verse to a perfectly fine RnB song just ruin the flow and vibe of the song for me. There are exceptions, and songs where it sounds natural , I like, for example, what Total did with Biggie (One More Time). But 9 times out of 10 it is just very unnecessary and annoying, especially when it changes the musical landscape so drastically.

But I guess that´s part of life and we´re getting older.

KoolEaze said:

Militant said:

You sure about that?

Well, that´s what he told me a few weeks ago.

-

Many of the new orgers seem familiar to me, despite their new usernames.

Last time I spoke w/ Ernest about the org, he was not at all interested in returning.

MattyJam said:

homesquid said:

Ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with Tony M. He may be a generic rapper but that's the sound Prince wanted.

Don't mean it's the sound I want though. I can abide him on a few songs, he doesn't offend me so much on The Max or Sexy MF, but he literally does a sonic defecation on Love 2 The 9's.

KoolEaze said:

TrivialPursuit said:

We know because ew know Prince's own words. Maybe you don't, but we've all read plenty on what he's said. It's pretty well known he added rap to his music to follow the trend. He wasn't creating any trends at that point, per se, in his music. He once asked Bob Cavallo "should I learn how to rap?", because he was so confused by this new genre at the time. And that was way before D&P or Graffiti Bridge.

.

As I stated before, when you realize where those raps are in the songs, you realize they were an after thought. Taking them out only shows what the song was originally meant to sound like, and that he just tacked on these horrid 16 measures for Tony M. to piss on because he was trying to be relevant. If you read the link I put in my previous reply, and other's replies after that, you'd realize he was on a mission with D&P to make a commercial album for the record company. Putting rap in was just another Top 40 trick. It wasn't Prince being true to himself. Prince was easily caught up in stuff that he'd soon lose interest in later. His career is scattered with unfinished projects, or ideas that never venture very far. His inclusion of Tony M.'s raps was just that. It was 2.5 years of cringing, whether it was Tony or TC Ellis.

Agree.

I never knew that he asked Bob Cavallo whether he should learn how to rap.

He shouldn´t have forced it. Prince had always incorporated current trends and new genres into his music, and I think he didn´t really need to use Tony M.

On the contrary, his reputation was pretty solid before he added fake rappers to his music, and it sounded very forced, especially Tony´s hypeman antics during the live shows, the constant "Say hoooooo, wave your hands in the air." bullshit to energize the audience when that wasn´t even really necessary.

I don´t even like those rap concert staples during real rap concert...they are just unnecessary in this day and age, especially if the songs are already good enough to keep the crowd moving.

Things would have worked out much better if he had let things happen naturally, maybe use rap elements like he did in Days of Wild and Now, or even 18 & Over but not the way he did around 91-93.

Those albums would have sold just fine without those added rap parts that really sound like an afterthought and very forced.

But on the other hand....when you think of some of those other rappers he used, like Scrap D, I think he was just trying to be nice and generous, giving some local rappers a chance to be on his album. Much to the detriment of said album and his fans.

I met Scrap D in 1996 and talked for quite some time with him, and while I dislike his contributions, it was interesting to speak about his experience and get to see his perspective on this.

I think he just didn't understand hip hop because he didn't listen to it and had pretty much written it off as a fad. Once he realized it wasn't a fad, it was too late commercially. I think he really only started undersanding it towards the latter part of the 90's into the 2000's when he got with Doug E., Chuck D., Q-Tip, Eve,Outkast, his contribution to Common's album,and finally the last couple of years with Kendrick. But like I've said before, I think he cut himself from musical experiences in a lot of ways also and I think hip-hop was just not his thing and he didn't have to incorporate it if he didn't understand it. But like I said, I think he was sort of going through of a transition of sorts and I think had he lived he would've found his way to enjoy and inspire even more artists.