Astasheiks said:

Phillips famously declared that "If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars."

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What do you think of Mr. Phillips quote???

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That quote is meaningless. First of all no one knows if Phillips even said that. It has become such a part of rock and roll lore that we just accept it. But let's say he did say it.

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So what? That quote is simply a man who understands marketing and demographics. Right now the NBA is predominantly black. If an agent says "If I could find a white guy who plays like Michael Jordan I could make a billion dollars" that simple means he understands the marketplace. Same thing if someone says "If I could find a black man who could play rock guitar like a white guy...." Oh, wait, they did find that guy. His name was Prince.

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Now are you going to say Prince stole from the white man?

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It's just marketing folks. You try to reach as large an audience as possible.

kalelvisj said:

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Something to consider, the fact that whenever anyone of any real importance in pop culture dies the first person that is brought up to quantify or contextualize their impact is Elvis. It is almost 40 years since he died and he is still the benchmark.

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Great point.

Cloreen said:

maplesyrupnjam said:

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Elvis's films were still crap though.

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You don't make 31 of them if they were crap.

How many "Catwoman" movies did Halle Berry make? Get my point?

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[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Catwoman_poster.jpg[/img:$uid]

Look you're obviously a fan of his films. They are generally seen within the film industry as having no artistic merit whatsoever. They are terrible and hundreds of Film Directors would agree. How many Oscars did they win? His movies were light, airy pointless garbage about whether he would 'get the girl' or not. Which he did. They were a function for his dated dancing and performances.

I've seen a a few. None of them are considered classics in the medium of Film. Catwoman? lol. Yes, that was also shit but Halle Berry has won an Oscar. So has Prince.

Cloreen said:

Astasheiks said:

Phillips famously declared that "If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars."

.

.

That quote is meaningless. First of all no one knows if Phillips even said that. It has become such a part of rock and roll lore that we just accept it. But let's say he did say it.

.

So what? That quote is simply a man who understands marketing and demographics. Right now the NBA is predominantly black. If an agent says "If I could find a white guy who plays like Michael Jordan I could make a billion dollars" that simple means he understands the marketplace. Same thing if someone says "If I could find a black man who could play rock guitar like a white guy...." Oh, wait, they did find that guy. His name was Prince.

.

Now are you going to say Prince stole from the white man?

.

It's just marketing folks. You try to reach as large an audience as possible.

It's just marketing folks. You try to reach as large an audience as possible

Sums up Elvis's fim career to a tee. The reason they kept making them was because he was a teen idol. It doesen't mask the fact that they were awful.

kalelvisj said:

I have been a member here for a long time and have often joined in the Prince/Elvis threads. These two men are the core of my musical taste and i could argue for days how similar so much of their work/image is, but to be honest, I am just to sad (still) from Prince's passing to get into it, besides this thread is really not about comparing their work or their lives but their legacy.

<snip>

Ultimately, I find these comparisons fairly useless. Each artists legacy will be its own thing. No one can take Prince's impact out of the equation and the same is true for MJ and for Elvis and for Ray Charles and for Johnny Cash and on and on and on.

Your entire post, very well stated.

As for those recycling stale, debunked urban legends

maplesyrupnjam said:

Elvis movies were pointless garbage about whether he would 'get the girl' or not.

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And win the race or not.

You forget that crucial dramatic detail.

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[img:$uid]http://www.cottonowens.com/images/2012pics/Elvis1.jpeg[/img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://www.memphisflash.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Elvis_Presley_Spinout_1966a.jpg[/img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://blog.graceland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/spinout3.jpg[/img:$uid]

Astasheiks said:

mtlfan said:

I'm probably a little off-base with my racial profiling of Prince fans. The crowd at Muzique was mixed, he's obviously had crossover appeal for most of his career. But I do think Elvis' legacy is entrenched by a generation with more rigid beliefs about race, gender and sexuality. And even though the US is the world's leading producer of porn, "Head" isn't getting played on the morning drive any time soon.

Race in regards to what, that white folks are superior, old Klansman arse people, The Confederate flag, and slavery history or wish Black Folks was still picking cotton?

And as far as your last sentence that don't need to play "Head", that was very long time ago, and Prince didn't even sing the lyrics to anymore in his performances. But the radio could play God Is Alive, The Cross, One of Us, Thunder, Purple Rain, Anna Stesia, Holy River, Question of U, Gold, etc.

I'm not sure I follow your argument here. I'm saying racist mentalities interfere with the legacies of African-Americans. I'm saying that's a bad thing. You seem to be on the attack. I think it's safe to say that no matter how racist US society is today, the 1950s, when Elvis rose to popularity, were worse.

Yes, of course the radio can play more Prince songs, but they don't, at least not across Canada. There are maybe five that get radio play. Now do you think there are reasons behind that?

mtlfan said:

Astasheiks said:

Race in regards to what, that white folks are superior, old Klansman arse people, The Confederate flag, and slavery history or wish Black Folks was still picking cotton?

And as far as your last sentence that don't need to play "Head", that was very long time ago, and Prince didn't even sing the lyrics to anymore in his performances. But the radio could play God Is Alive, The Cross, One of Us, Thunder, Purple Rain, Anna Stesia, Holy River, Question of U, Gold, etc.

I'm not sure I follow your argument here. I'm saying racist mentalities interfere with the legacies of African-Americans. I'm saying that's a bad thing. You seem to be on the attack. I think it's safe to say that no matter how racist US society is today, the 1950s, when Elvis rose to popularity, were worse.

Yes, of course the radio can play more Prince songs, but they don't, at least not across Canada. There are maybe five that get radio play. Now do you think there are reasons behind that?

Now with your last question finally someone brings this thread back on track....if radio does play a Prince song it is the usual overplayed ones....why since his passing can't radio play more Prince? Plenty of non hits that could have been hits and if we wanna go racial as the USA loves to do....this scenario also plays out on black radio stations.

Why?

Elvis Presley has a 2 hour every Sunday honor out of Philadelphia and plenty of world wide listeners online plus successful get2gethers on a constant basis.

It has been a month I have not heard of anyone jumping up with any type of radio plans for Prince.

Why?

If including released= strong.

If including boots & live shows= just as strong in choices as Presley.

BET & folks alike so jazzed up for a " Real" tribute.....so what? and why care....Prince won't be there & original is original.

The Black community was so stand offish at Madonna...ok I'm not a Madonna fan so if that caused the uproar why doesn't it spark that community to get things ongoing for Prince instead of finger pointing, bellyaching and whatever else??

Spike Lee always has that mouth so he is doing a Brooklyn gathering June 4....where exactly? no clue....efforts would be better going at things that keep things going where thru time Prince climbs in the ring with the legends & icons.

And don't tell me he is already there because I am in the Philippines & no one here has a clue who Prince is/ was....but they know Elvis, Justin Bieber , lady Gaga and even Duran Duran sold out shows in Manila.

Cloreen said:

maplesyrupnjam said:

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And win the race or not.

You forget that crucial dramatic detail.

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[img:$uid]http://www.cottonowens.com/images/2012pics/Elvis1.jpeg[/img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://www.memphisflash.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Elvis_Presley_Spinout_1966a.jpg[/img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://blog.graceland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/spinout3.jpg[/img:$uid]

saw this as a kid. Who can sing the lyrics 2 "my rival"

? lol

jimmy3121 said:

It has been a month I have not heard of anyone jumping up with any type of radio plans for Prince.

Why?

If including released= strong.

If including boots & live shows= just as strong in choices as Presley.

One thing that might have some being cautious was the legislation, the PRINCE Act, which probably would not have allowed for use of his name to advertise such a venture. Now it's been put on hold, but that is supposed to be just temporary. Who would want to get something going and find out they owe a lot more money to keep it, or can't get permission to market themselves?

Legitimate radio is probably not going to risk playing unofficial Prince for long, not with a lawyered-up estate and Web Sheriff, etc.

Sirius might already have something in the works, who knows...

XrayTed said:

It is true Elvis was not a great musician, and he wasn't even a song writer.

His gifts were his voice, singing ability, looks, stage presence and entertainer, that is his legacy.

About the implication that blacks brought singing and dancing to USA and Elvis was just copying them, I think that is a far fetched notion to say the least. Certainly blues influence rubbed off on him and it shows in his style, just as early blues players were influenced by something else.

To imply that without blacks there never would have been an Elvis is clearly ludicrous, their contributions to early and modern rock/pop are clear enough without having to ridiculously overstate them.

Early African-American blues players were influenced by a racist system of bigotry, oppression and disnefranchisement that are the vestiges of slavery.

Cloreen said:

maplesyrupnjam said:

Cloreen said:

Your last line is hilarious. I suppose If there was no Elvis Presley... Prince would have found a way. He was born to make music.

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If there were no Elvis, yes, I agree with you, Prince would be making music....but he'd be doing it part time after he got home from work as an usher in a movie theater.

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You really do not understand the cultural impact of Elvis. Not musical impact, societal impact. Prior to Elvis the music and entertainment industry was for older people. You think Al Jolson was packing in teenagers? Sinatra changed that a bit, but it was Elvis who exploded the notion that records/entertainment were to be sold to middle aged people. An entire youth market began with Elvis and his leading the charge with rock and roll. We still experience that youth market today. That youth market is the number one demographic for selling music. Elvis was the man who brought that on.

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If there were no Elvis, Prince would be playing his music after coming home from work at the movie theater to sixty-five year old men in a run down jazz club with bare light bulbs hanging from the ceiling. And believe me, he wouldn't be playing "Jack U Off." He'd be playing that adult crap from "C-Note" or "N.E.W.S." boring the old drunks to tears.

You give way too much credit to Elvis and leave off far too many others of that era who also played a part in the emerging youth market fueled by R&B, which heavily influenced Rock&Roll, artists like Ray Charles, the Isley Brothers, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley and the Comets, Ritchie Valens, even Roy Orbison.

I find your condescending commentary to be quite disrespectful in light of recent events and the fact many Prince supporters in the Purple Army are still grieving the loss of an artist/multi-instrumentalist - not a mere entertainer - nearly all critics and mainstream media have acknowledged as a musical genius. I don't recall Elvis receiving similar accolades.

[Edited 5/27/16 20:02pm]

jimmy3121 said:

mtlfan said:

I'm not sure I follow your argument here. I'm saying racist mentalities interfere with the legacies of African-Americans. I'm saying that's a bad thing. You seem to be on the attack. I think it's safe to say that no matter how racist US society is today, the 1950s, when Elvis rose to popularity, were worse.

Yes, of course the radio can play more Prince songs, but they don't, at least not across Canada. There are maybe five that get radio play. Now do you think there are reasons behind that?

Now with your last question finally someone brings this thread back on track....if radio does play a Prince song it is the usual overplayed ones....why since his passing can't radio play more Prince? Plenty of non hits that could have been hits and if we wanna go racial as the USA loves to do....this scenario also plays out on black radio stations.

Why?

Elvis Presley has a 2 hour every Sunday honor out of Philadelphia and plenty of world wide listeners online plus successful get2gethers on a constant basis.

It has been a month I have not heard of anyone jumping up with any type of radio plans for Prince.

Why?

If including released= strong.

If including boots & live shows= just as strong in choices as Presley.

BET & folks alike so jazzed up for a " Real" tribute.....so what? and why care....Prince won't be there & original is original.

The Black community was so stand offish at Madonna...ok I'm not a Madonna fan so if that caused the uproar why doesn't it spark that community to get things ongoing for Prince instead of finger pointing, bellyaching and whatever else??

Spike Lee always has that mouth so he is doing a Brooklyn gathering June 4....where exactly? no clue....efforts would be better going at things that keep things going where thru time Prince climbs in the ring with the legends & icons.

And don't tell me he is already there because I am in the Philippines & no one here has a clue who Prince is/ was....but they know Elvis, Justin Bieber , lady Gaga and even Duran Duran sold out shows in Manila.

Yet here you are, in this very thread, talking about a man everyone in the Phillipines is clueless about

Prince was much more talented than Presley... A multiinstrumentalist, a songwriter, and a workaholic

kalelvisj said:

Prince's reputation and legacy will continue to grow so long as his work remains available to the public especially if the estate maintains a steady and thoughtful output of new material. Perhaps no artist in music history has ever left such an abundance of "new" unheard and unseen material to maintain their legacy.

The thing I hate about these kinds of legacy conversations is that they almost always become some kind of pissing contest...and that conversation will never be appropriate or useful but especially not right now in the midst of the grieving process for so many people in this forum.

Exactly.

FullLipsDotNose said:

Prince was much more talented than Presley... A multiinstrumentalist, a songwriter, and a workaholic

So if that is all true = Prince should be talked about, played etc just as much.

Yes??

Workaholic?

Elvis died at 42 y/o...plus take 2 full years out for being drafted in the Army- how did he manage to leave all of this material if he also wasn't a workaholic??

I was following your statement until the Workaholic part which if you looked at facts before throwing that in makes zero sense....Prince was more prolific playing instruments but Presley did play Piano & Guitar.

Have you considered the word Charisma? Gearing that towards the general public....do you think Prince turned off many folks with his cocky/ arrogant swag? I remember the American Idol appearance and those folks bellyaching that Prince just breezed by Ryan Seacrest without saying anything and that is just one example....ever see Elvis do that? On a stage in front of millions like that?

As I've pondered knowing that Prince Music should be much more out there--- that might be the final answer--- to this thread- I certainly did not find it here----- as pals back in the USA who don't think much of Prince & don't care for him or his style & all various races) I asked why....in the past week from various different folks the answer of him coming off as he did on American Idol turns the mainstream folks off.....again that is just one example- more came at me....so final answer looks like it is that as the reason thru time Prince won't be mentioned like Presley.

Not that I agree with it but it is what it is.

THE END.

jimmy3121 said: