GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:

This is a very compelling long essay, but tbh, the short portion on Prince seemed rushed and not thought out. Like he's been working on this piece for a year and then Prince died, so he added it in. Probably the weakest part of the whole piece.

limoncello said:

ha ha " I found myself irritated that I had to share him with Wolf Blitzer of CNN"

GirlBrother said:

limoncello said:

This is a very compelling long essay, but tbh, the short portion on Prince seemed rushed and not thought out. Like he's been working on this piece for a year and then Prince died, so he added it in. Probably the weakest part of the whole piece.

Agreed. But still fascinating. Loved what he had to say about Beyonce.

Ya. I shouldn't drag on the piece, because it's really good in so many ways. I guess I just wish he had spent more time/thought on the Prince angle because it's obvs important. Wish more people would consider these ideas - really big stuff.

limoncello said:

GirlBrother said:

We're definitely at a very strange moment in "Western" culture. I personally feel that we've become too complacent; too polite; too ignorant; and too scared. We need our weirdos, our outsiders, our agitators... I'd rather have Lauryn and Prince with their ambiguously-expressed beliefs towards gay people, than a thousand Beyoncés. I'd rather have real. Nina Simone was real. Prince was real.

Couldn't agree more. After reading your comment, I tried thinking of who's weird and who's pushing the limits in pop culture right now, who's making us uncomfortable for the right reasons. Honestly, even the so-called outcasts are pretty gd-ed mainstream, aren't they? I mean Lorde is great but she's not pushing boundaires.

If nobody is pushing the boundaries, society remains in the middle or regresses. Yet the reward for weirdos like Prince, Lauryn, Nina - hell even Kurt Cobain who was a feminist and queer advocate - is often ridicule and I hate to say this, but an early grave.

limoncello said:

GirlBrother said:

GirlBrother said:

limoncello said:

Yet the reward for weirdos like Prince, Lauryn, Nina - hell even Kurt Cobain who was a feminist and queer advocate - is often ridicule and I hate to say this, but an early grave.

I feel like society has confused tolerance with acceptance. There has been so much enforced homogenisation that nobody has had a chance to draw a breath and take stock. If you look back over the last fifty years, the progress of equality seems artificial. I'm not even talking about racial or gay equality - even just gender equality seems artificial. It's all fake. It's all too much, too quickly. It's not developed organically. You hear queer people arguing over whether RuPaul can use the word "tranny", while transgender people lobby to use the specifically-gendered restroom of their choice; while GLAAD push for tokenism in the media; and people in same-gendered relationships congratulate themselves for being able to get married... And it's all BULLSHIT. ANYBODY whom is perceived to be different is still oppressed. Women are still being oppressed around the world just for being women. Fuck even race, sexuality, religion, nationality or anything else. I've seen so much racism, ageism, and misogyny towards Madonna here, in the last week. Being over fifty isn't even a minority in the developing world these days, due to healthcare and lifestyle. The over-fifties only seem to be quiet, because they haven't grown-up with information technology in the same way as their younger brethren have. It's not even gay, old, female, non-white... It's fat. It's ginger. It's too dark or too light. It's being too religious. Being too profane. Too young. Too foreign. Too familiar. Hate is in people's hearts. You can't legislate people to get along. You can't make laws against being a cunt. And that's what the 1990s and 2000s attempted to do. I'm unsurprised by Trump. I can understand when people like Susan Sarandon and Lady Bunny say "bring it on." I'm rambling.

Sometimes I'm on this page, mostly I hope we're just stuck. Conformity always wins - gays can marry, they're now EXPECTED to marry. Insanity. Then I think of the hell that was the AIDS era of the 80s or the legal situation in the US for women up until the last 20-30 years and we have gained something.

I really hope others examine this line of thought in the wake of Prince's life and death. It's so crucial to recognize how revolutionary art changes us. I mean, if we continue to see Silicon Valley as cutting edge and the Kardashian keep ruling pop culture, we're stuck for a long while yet.

*Also, thanks for noting that about Madonna. The amount of misogyny generally on these board post-Prince's death has blown my mind. The man loved and respected women, was known for nurturing women professionally, yet many of his fans seem to have missed the point.

[Edited 5/22/16 15:23pm]

[Edited 5/22/16 15:25pm]

limoncello said:

rightbluecheek said:

I get what you are saying. I am a woman, over 50, not married, with no kids, and I also have a blue birthmark on the right side of my face (hence the name rightbluecheek) that I chose not to take away and instead wear with pride. I probably will never fully understand, too, but I know what it means to be different

GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:

I get what you are saying. I am a woman, over 50, not married, with no kids, and I also have a blue birthmark on the right side of my face (hence the name rightbluecheek) that I chose not to take away and instead wear with pride. I probably will never fully understand, too, but I know what it means to be different

And it's great! If you're outside, you're free. I'm nearly 44 and single and I don't want to be with anybody. I'm alone but not lonely. I only ever feel lonely if I'm forced into a crowd of average people. You're beautiful, and don't need anybody else's permission to love yourself. x

GirlBrother said:

limoncello said:

*Also, thanks for noting that about Madonna. The amount of misogyny generally on these board post-Prince's death has blown my mind. The man loved and respected women, was known for nurturing women professionally, yet many of his fans seem to have missed the point.

It's depressing and confusing. Yes, Prince's off-hand comments were also confusing at times. But at least he was consistent in his inconsistency.* He opened his mouth in accordance to his gut-feeling at that specific moment in time. He didn't have an agenda - his worldview was forever open to change. It's no wonder he hated interviews - he couldn't help speaking from his heart, and that scares the Hell out of people. I don't believe he'd have remained so embedded within one specific religion had he lived. I don't. I really don't. *I think that was Michael or Sonny whom described The NPG as being consistent in their incontinency, in the Gett Off video single.

I think he was already past the hardcore-JW stage, maybe ready to transition again.

My hope now is that some really great biographers/filmmakers, etc, are able to do proper justice to his legacy. Toure tried, but didn't get there. There's a whole field of study on Prince's elevation of women in music alone. I honestly don't believe even many Prince fans recognize the depth of his cultural impact and given what's been done with Miles and Nina, maybe it's a lost cause. Shit though, at the least his fans here could stop throwing hate at the women he loved and respected.

Guitarhero said:

limoncello said:

rightbluecheek said:

GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:

Thank you guys! I really appreciate it! We are all beautiful, when we express what we really are. It's not an easy task, just understanding who you really are takes a lifetime, but it's worth it. It's life itself! It's freedom. It's love.

It's true.