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Thread started 05/22/16 3:45am

GirlBrother

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Long Read On Prince, Race, and Sexuality

This essay is super-long, but amazingly well written:

http://www.thenewcivilrig...and_prince
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Reply #1 posted 05/22/16 5:51am

rightbluecheek

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GirlBrother said:

This essay is super-long, but amazingly well written:

http://www.thenewcivilrig...and_prince


Thanks for the link, I have read bits and pieces, and it definitely deserves a full read.
"No one plays the clarinet the way U play my heart"
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Reply #2 posted 05/22/16 7:12am

GirlBrother

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rightbluecheek said:

GirlBrother said:

This essay is super-long, but amazingly well written:

http://www.thenewcivilrig...and_prince


Thanks for the link, I have read bits and pieces, and it definitely deserves a full read.


I think it's challenging to be a minority of sorts (a gay man) and attempt to grasp the prejudice that other minorities face. I may be gay, but I'm also a white male.

I can "pass" as the majority quite easily. My otherness being less visible is simultaneously easier and also problematic.

I can understand fully, but I'll probably never truly understand.
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Reply #3 posted 05/22/16 9:06am

limoncello

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This is a very compelling long essay, but tbh, the short portion on Prince seemed rushed and not thought out. Like he's been working on this piece for a year and then Prince died, so he added it in. Probably the weakest part of the whole piece.

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Reply #4 posted 05/22/16 9:44am

GirlBrother

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limoncello said:

This is a very compelling long essay, but tbh, the short portion on Prince seemed rushed and not thought out. Like he's been working on this piece for a year and then Prince died, so he added it in. Probably the weakest part of the whole piece.



Agreed. But still fascinating. Loved what he had to say about Beyonce.
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Reply #5 posted 05/22/16 9:57am

ufoclub

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ha ha " I found myself irritated that I had to share him with Wolf Blitzer of CNN"

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Reply #6 posted 05/22/16 12:15pm

limoncello

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GirlBrother said:

limoncello said:

This is a very compelling long essay, but tbh, the short portion on Prince seemed rushed and not thought out. Like he's been working on this piece for a year and then Prince died, so he added it in. Probably the weakest part of the whole piece.

Agreed. But still fascinating. Loved what he had to say about Beyonce.

Ya. I shouldn't drag on the piece, because it's really good in so many ways. I guess I just wish he had spent more time/thought on the Prince angle because it's obvs important. Wish more people would consider these ideas - really big stuff.

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Reply #7 posted 05/22/16 12:41pm

GirlBrother

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limoncello said:

Ya. I shouldn't drag on the piece, because it's really good in so many ways. I guess I just wish he had spent more time/thought on the Prince angle because it's obvs important. Wish more people would consider these ideas - really big stuff.


We're definitely at a very strange moment in "Western" culture. I personally feel that we've become too complacent; too polite; too ignorant; and too scared.

We need our weirdos, our outsiders, our agitators...

I'd rather have Lauryn and Prince with their ambiguously-expressed beliefs towards gay people, than a thousand Beyoncés.

I'd rather have real. Nina Simone was real. Prince was real.
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Reply #8 posted 05/22/16 1:01pm

limoncello

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GirlBrother said:

We're definitely at a very strange moment in "Western" culture. I personally feel that we've become too complacent; too polite; too ignorant; and too scared. We need our weirdos, our outsiders, our agitators... I'd rather have Lauryn and Prince with their ambiguously-expressed beliefs towards gay people, than a thousand Beyoncés. I'd rather have real. Nina Simone was real. Prince was real.

Couldn't agree more. After reading your comment, I tried thinking of who's weird and who's pushing the limits in pop culture right now, who's making us uncomfortable for the right reasons. Honestly, even the so-called outcasts are pretty gd-ed mainstream, aren't they? I mean Lorde is great but she's not pushing boundaires.

If nobody is pushing the boundaries, society remains in the middle or regresses. Yet the reward for weirdos like Prince, Lauryn, Nina - hell even Kurt Cobain who was a feminist and queer advocate - is often ridicule and I hate to say this, but an early grave.

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Reply #9 posted 05/22/16 1:48pm

GirlBrother

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limoncello said:

Yet the reward for weirdos like Prince, Lauryn, Nina - hell even Kurt Cobain who was a feminist and queer advocate - is often ridicule and I hate to say this, but an early grave.


I feel like society has confused tolerance with acceptance.

There has been so much enforced homogenisation that nobody has had a chance to draw a breath and take stock.

If you look back over the last fifty years, the progress of equality seems artificial. I'm not even talking about racial or gay equality - even just gender equality seems artificial.

It's all fake. It's all too much, too quickly. It's not developed organically.

You hear queer people arguing over whether RuPaul can use the word "tranny", while transgender people lobby to use the specifically-gendered restroom of their choice; while GLAAD push for tokenism in the media; and people in same-gendered relationships congratulate themselves for being able to get married...

And it's all BULLSHIT.

ANYBODY whom is perceived to be different is still oppressed. Women are still being oppressed around the world just for being women. Fuck even race, sexuality, religion, nationality or anything else.

I've seen so much racism, ageism, and misogyny towards Madonna here, in the last week. Being over fifty isn't even a minority in the developing world these days, due to healthcare and lifestyle.

The over-fifties only seem to be quiet, because they haven't grown-up with information technology in the same way as their younger brethren have.

It's not even gay, old, female, non-white... It's fat. It's ginger. It's too dark or too light. It's being too religious. Being too profane. Too young. Too foreign. Too familiar.

Hate is in people's hearts. You can't legislate people to get along. You can't make laws against being a cunt. And that's what the 1990s and 2000s attempted to do.

I'm unsurprised by Trump. I can understand when people like Susan Sarandon and Lady Bunny say "bring it on."

I'm rambling.
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Reply #10 posted 05/22/16 3:01pm

rightbluecheek

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GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:



Thanks for the link, I have read bits and pieces, and it definitely deserves a full read.


I think it's challenging to be a minority of sorts (a gay man) and attempt to grasp the prejudice that other minorities face. I may be gay, but I'm also a white male.

I can "pass" as the majority quite easily. My otherness being less visible is simultaneously easier and also problematic.

I can understand fully, but I'll probably never truly understand.


I get what you are saying. I am a woman, over 50, not married, with no kids, and I also have a blue birthmark on the right side of my face (hence the name rightbluecheek) that I chose not to take away and instead wear with pride. I probably will never fully understand, too, but I know what it means to be different wink
"No one plays the clarinet the way U play my heart"
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Reply #11 posted 05/22/16 3:15pm

limoncello

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GirlBrother said:

limoncello said:
Yet the reward for weirdos like Prince, Lauryn, Nina - hell even Kurt Cobain who was a feminist and queer advocate - is often ridicule and I hate to say this, but an early grave.
I feel like society has confused tolerance with acceptance. There has been so much enforced homogenisation that nobody has had a chance to draw a breath and take stock. If you look back over the last fifty years, the progress of equality seems artificial. I'm not even talking about racial or gay equality - even just gender equality seems artificial. It's all fake. It's all too much, too quickly. It's not developed organically. You hear queer people arguing over whether RuPaul can use the word "tranny", while transgender people lobby to use the specifically-gendered restroom of their choice; while GLAAD push for tokenism in the media; and people in same-gendered relationships congratulate themselves for being able to get married... And it's all BULLSHIT. ANYBODY whom is perceived to be different is still oppressed. Women are still being oppressed around the world just for being women. Fuck even race, sexuality, religion, nationality or anything else. I've seen so much racism, ageism, and misogyny towards Madonna here, in the last week. Being over fifty isn't even a minority in the developing world these days, due to healthcare and lifestyle. The over-fifties only seem to be quiet, because they haven't grown-up with information technology in the same way as their younger brethren have. It's not even gay, old, female, non-white... It's fat. It's ginger. It's too dark or too light. It's being too religious. Being too profane. Too young. Too foreign. Too familiar. Hate is in people's hearts. You can't legislate people to get along. You can't make laws against being a cunt. And that's what the 1990s and 2000s attempted to do. I'm unsurprised by Trump. I can understand when people like Susan Sarandon and Lady Bunny say "bring it on." I'm rambling.

Sometimes I'm on this page, mostly I hope we're just stuck. Conformity always wins - gays can marry, they're now EXPECTED to marry. Insanity. Then I think of the hell that was the AIDS era of the 80s or the legal situation in the US for women up until the last 20-30 years and we have gained something.

I really hope others examine this line of thought in the wake of Prince's life and death. It's so crucial to recognize how revolutionary art changes us. I mean, if we continue to see Silicon Valley as cutting edge and the Kardashian keep ruling pop culture, we're stuck for a long while yet.

*Also, thanks for noting that about Madonna. The amount of misogyny generally on these board post-Prince's death has blown my mind. The man loved and respected women, was known for nurturing women professionally, yet many of his fans seem to have missed the point.

[Edited 5/22/16 15:23pm]

[Edited 5/22/16 15:25pm]

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Reply #12 posted 05/22/16 3:49pm

GirlBrother

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limoncello said:

*Also, thanks for noting that about Madonna. The amount of misogyny generally on these board post-Prince's death has blown my mind. The man loved and respected women, was known for nurturing women professionally, yet many of his fans seem to have missed the point.


It's depressing and confusing.

Yes, Prince's off-hand comments were also confusing at times. But at least he was consistent in his inconsistency.*

He opened his mouth in accordance to his gut-feeling at that specific moment in time. He didn't have an agenda - his worldview was forever open to change. It's no wonder he hated interviews - he couldn't help speaking from his heart, and that scares the Hell out of people.

I don't believe he'd have remained so embedded within one specific religion had he lived. I don't. I really don't.

*I think that was Michael or Sonny whom described The NPG as being consistent in their incontinency, in the Gett Off video single.
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Reply #13 posted 05/22/16 3:53pm

GirlBrother

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rightbluecheek said:


I get what you are saying. I am a woman, over 50, not married, with no kids, and I also have a blue birthmark on the right side of my face (hence the name rightbluecheek) that I chose not to take away and instead wear with pride. I probably will never fully understand, too, but I know what it means to be different wink


And it's great! If you're outside, you're free.

I'm nearly 44 and single and I don't want to be with anybody. I'm alone but not lonely. I only ever feel lonely if I'm forced into a crowd of average people.

You're beautiful, and don't need anybody else's permission to love yourself. x
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Reply #14 posted 05/22/16 3:55pm

Guitarhero

GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:
I get what you are saying. I am a woman, over 50, not married, with no kids, and I also have a blue birthmark on the right side of my face (hence the name rightbluecheek) that I chose not to take away and instead wear with pride. I probably will never fully understand, too, but I know what it means to be different wink
And it's great! If you're outside, you're free. I'm nearly 44 and single and I don't want to be with anybody. I'm alone but not lonely. I only ever feel lonely if I'm forced into a crowd of average people. You're beautiful, and don't need anybody else's permission to love yourself. x

nod

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Reply #15 posted 05/22/16 3:58pm

limoncello

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GirlBrother said:

limoncello said:
*Also, thanks for noting that about Madonna. The amount of misogyny generally on these board post-Prince's death has blown my mind. The man loved and respected women, was known for nurturing women professionally, yet many of his fans seem to have missed the point.
It's depressing and confusing. Yes, Prince's off-hand comments were also confusing at times. But at least he was consistent in his inconsistency.* He opened his mouth in accordance to his gut-feeling at that specific moment in time. He didn't have an agenda - his worldview was forever open to change. It's no wonder he hated interviews - he couldn't help speaking from his heart, and that scares the Hell out of people. I don't believe he'd have remained so embedded within one specific religion had he lived. I don't. I really don't. *I think that was Michael or Sonny whom described The NPG as being consistent in their incontinency, in the Gett Off video single.

I think he was already past the hardcore-JW stage, maybe ready to transition again.

My hope now is that some really great biographers/filmmakers, etc, are able to do proper justice to his legacy. Toure tried, but didn't get there. There's a whole field of study on Prince's elevation of women in music alone. I honestly don't believe even many Prince fans recognize the depth of his cultural impact and given what's been done with Miles and Nina, maybe it's a lost cause. Shit though, at the least his fans here could stop throwing hate at the women he loved and respected.

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Reply #16 posted 05/22/16 4:11pm

rightbluecheek

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Guitarhero said:



GirlBrother said:


rightbluecheek said:
I get what you are saying. I am a woman, over 50, not married, with no kids, and I also have a blue birthmark on the right side of my face (hence the name rightbluecheek) that I chose not to take away and instead wear with pride. I probably will never fully understand, too, but I know what it means to be different wink

And it's great! If you're outside, you're free. I'm nearly 44 and single and I don't want to be with anybody. I'm alone but not lonely. I only ever feel lonely if I'm forced into a crowd of average people. You're beautiful, and don't need anybody else's permission to love yourself. x

nod


Thank you guys! I really appreciate it! We are all beautiful, when we express what we really are. It's not an easy task, just understanding who you really are takes a lifetime, but it's worth it. It's life itself! It's freedom. It's love.
"No one plays the clarinet the way U play my heart"
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Reply #17 posted 05/22/16 4:19pm

GirlBrother

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limoncello said:

I honestly don't believe even many Prince fans recognize the depth of his cultural impact and given what's been done with Miles and Nina, maybe it's a lost cause. Shit though, at the least his fans here could stop throwing hate at the women he loved and respected.>


And another thing about the Nina Simone biopic...

I feel bad for Zoe Saldana for taking the flack for the hack-job movie... But she shouldn't have taken the job.

Worse; she shouldn't have attempted to excuse herself.

I think there's a world of difference between discussing whether Idris Elba could play James Bond, and whether Zoe Saldana should have portrayed Nina Simone...

James Bond is a fictional character. He's been English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, brunette and blonde on-screen already. Black wouldn't be an issue.

I do think that if an actor is attempting to portray a real flesh & blood person in a fictionalised narrative of their life, there should be at least some resemblance...

They don't have to be identical, like Kurt Russell wasn't in that classic Elvis TV movie. But in this day and age, nobody should be "blacking up" whether they're caucasian or a person of colour. It's unnecessary due to the wealth of non-white actors in the profession nowadays, aside from any other deeper implications.
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Reply #18 posted 05/22/16 4:20pm

GirlBrother

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rightbluecheek said:


Thank you guys! I really appreciate it! We are all beautiful, when we express what we really are. It's not an easy task, just understanding who you really are takes a lifetime, but it's worth it. It's life itself! It's freedom. It's love.


It's true. smile
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Reply #19 posted 05/23/16 2:14am

rightbluecheek

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GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:


Thank you guys! I really appreciate it! We are all beautiful, when we express what we really are. It's not an easy task, just understanding who you really are takes a lifetime, but it's worth it. It's life itself! It's freedom. It's love.


It's true. smile

biggrin wink
"No one plays the clarinet the way U play my heart"
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