Lately I've been listening to a lot more of Prince's instrumental works like Madhouse, the Flesh, sections of Rainbow Children, N.E.W.S., God, Alexa de Paris,etc. A lot of these works went over my head at the time of their release. I remember wanting more traditional purple funk and less jazzy experimentations. Now my advanced ears can appreciate the intricate instrumentation underneath the melodies, much more than most of his pop and funk tracks. I really enjoyed The Plan on Emanicipation as was looking forward to hearing the whole Kamastura album. I ordered the tape from NPG back in the day but it gotten eaten by my old tape deck before I could hear it . I know there's an old thread (http://prince.org/msg/7/92523) where orgers bascially trashed the album without explaining why they didn't like it. Has anyone here heard it, and is this a good project to search for if you like Prince''s new agey jazzy muzak stuff ?

I used to have it, but I think I lost the hard drive that had it, I've actually been wanting to listen to it lately to remember things. I remember that it wasn't that bad to be honest, I remember there was this one piece with a"scissor" sound that I hated...think it was called Cutz. I don't remember it being awful but I don't remember it being great either. If you're expecting an album full of awesome "Alexa de Paris" type instrumentals this was not it. But I really wish Prince would've just made a general simple outline of where he wanted to go with the music, and let Clare handle everything else like before. Clare added so much to his music, I feel like after Clare passed the orchestral arrangements were never really quite right. I always hoped I could've worked on string arrangments with him eventually, I'm no Clare, but I've studied his style(along with other orchestral arraging styles in college) and feel like I could've pulled off some decent things. If not me then someone like Miguel Atwood-Ferguson would've made great arrangments. Shoot he should've let Esperanza arrange something! The arrangments on AOA(and the song Baltimore) were pretty average. I so wished he had worked with some other musicians in the past few years, I would've loved to hear him work wth Snarky Puppy,Hiatus Kaiyote,Little Dragon or even more with Janelle. I noticed he would promote some great talent( like King, Alabama Shakes,FKA Twigs) but wouldn't work with them.

[Edited 5/20/16 12:01pm]

I would put Kamasutra in the "only for completists" category. It really isn't very good.

Genesia said:

I would put Kamasutra in the "only for completists" category. It really isn't very good.

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Nailed it.

3rdEyeUnlimited said:

Now my advanced ears can appreciate the intricate instrumentation underneath the melodies,

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Come on. If I told you "Kamasutra" was really a project done by Huey Lewis And The News would you say the same things? Would you claim to enjoy it?

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Take the name Prince off the album cover and not one person on Earth would claim to dig it.

Cloreen said:

3rdEyeUnlimited said:

Now my advanced ears can appreciate the intricate instrumentation underneath the melodies,

.

Come on. If I told you "Kamasutra" was really a project done by Huey Lewis And The News would you say the same things? Would you claim to enjoy it?

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Take the name Prince off the album cover and not one person on Earth would claim to dig it.

I was talking about the other instrumentals Prince is known for and wondering why this one is so much worse/different. The only song I actually heard was The Plan from Emanicipation (which sounds like some Lovesexy Tour intermission music).

NikkiH said:

I so wished he had worked with some other musicians in the past few years, I would've loved to hear him work wth Snarky Puppy,Hiatus Kaiyote,Little Dragon or even more with Janelle. I noticed he would promote some great talent( like King, Alabama Shakes,FKA Twigs) but wouldn't work with them.

[Edited 5/20/16 12:01pm]

Agreed, Little Dragon is one my favorite alternatiive acts right now You can tell there are heavily Prince infuenced, very funky. He did reach out to a lot of female artists and musicians, but rarely any groups making similar music.

this is P trying to mix jazz with classical music. the problem is he keeps on repeating the same phrases, with different instruments. it gets a bit repetitive

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personally I think it's great background music. but that's not really a compliment is it? I like some of the tracks though

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I'd rank it the same as Xpectation

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btw I always wondered ... back in 1995 I bought a Kamasutra single (containing Overtures 1, 2 and 3 only) and a Love Sign maxi single/EP (containing 7 remixes). these were supposed be officially released but it never happened (there's no barcode on these items). are these rare or are they easy to obtain? I always considered them rarities in my own collection. they seem so different from a lot of the live & studio boots I bought at the same place

pics

[Edited 5/20/16 13:22pm]

Music for supermarkets/elevators/any other nondescript venue.

TheDigitalGardener said:

Music for supermarkets/elevators/any other nondescript venue.

Just don't play Cutz in a hair salon.

Genesia said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

Music for supermarkets/elevators/any other nondescript venue.

Just don't play Cutz in a hair salon.

Lol!

Genesia said:

I've always hated it, but in my recent binge, I've definitely grown to like it more. As someone said, there are some great melodies buried in there.

FragileUndertow said:

Genesia said:

Just don't play Cutz in a hair salon.

I always imagined he had a pair of scissors in hand, started playing with them and thought.. I will make a song out of this sound [Edited 5/20/16 13:54pm]

I always said he was trying to pull a John Cage with that one lol

3rdEyeUnlimited said:

NikkiH said:

I so wished he had worked with some other musicians in the past few years, I would've loved to hear him work wth Snarky Puppy,Hiatus Kaiyote,Little Dragon or even more with Janelle. I noticed he would promote some great talent( like King, Alabama Shakes,FKA Twigs) but wouldn't work with them.

[Edited 5/20/16 12:01pm]

Agreed, Little Dragon is one my favorite alternatiive acts right now You can tell there are heavily Prince infuenced, very funky. He did reach out to a lot of female artists and musicians, but rarely any groups making similar music.

They love him so much and even Wendy likes them! I was wondering if P ever reached out. I don't think he did.

It's a OK attempt, but I liked "Xpectation" and "N.E.W.S" much better. "Kamasutra" sounds too forced and cold.

As others have said, "Cutz" is quite jarring with the snipping sounds. There are several repeated themes thoughout the album, so it was worked on and wasn't simply a collection of random instrumentals. It's not bad. I just can't think of an occasion when I'd want to listen to it. I rarely listen to that kind of music. That said, it was composed for Mayte and her NPG Dance Company.

I have a copy somewhere, but never bought it so it must have been a freebie with either Emancipation or Crystal Ball.

It's not hard to see why "Venus", "Alexa" "Tokyo" etc are seen as superior. They're infinitely more accessible. Likely the reason "The Plan" was edited for Emancipation.

NikkiH said:

I used to have it, but I think I lost the hard drive that had it, I've actually been wanting to listen to it lately to remember things. I remember that it wasn't that bad to be honest, I remember there was this one piece with a"scissor" sound that I hated...think it was called Cutz. I don't remember it being awful but I don't remember it being great either. If you're expecting an album full of awesome "Alexa de Paris" type instrumentals this was not it. But I really wish Prince would've just made a general simple outline of where he wanted to go with the music, and let Clare handle everything else like before. Clare added so much to his music, I feel like after Clare passed the orchestral arrangements were never really quite right. I always hoped I could've worked on string arrangments with him eventually, I'm no Clare, but I've studied his style(along with other orchestral arraging styles in college) and feel like I could've pulled off some decent things. If not me then someone like Miguel Atwood-Ferguson would've made great arrangments. Shoot he should've let Esperanza arrange something! The arrangments on AOA(and the song Baltimore) were pretty average. I so wished he had worked with some other musicians in the past few years, I would've loved to hear him work wth Snarky Puppy,Hiatus Kaiyote,Little Dragon or even more with Janelle. I noticed he would promote some great talent( like King, Alabama Shakes,FKA Twigs) but wouldn't work with them.

[Edited 5/20/16 12:01pm]

All eleven tracks were written by Prince, and all contain him playing most of the non-orchestral instruments, with Eric Leeds playing saxophone, horns by the NPG Hornz, and orchestra added by Clare Fischer's orchestra. The album is entirely instrumental, with repeated musical themes throughout, and was recorded between Spring, 1994 and 1996 by Prince (as ) at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA, and by Clare Fischer's orchestra at Ocean Way Recording, Hollywood, CA, USA. http://princevault.com/in..._Kamasutra

Noodled24 said:

NikkiH said:

I used to have it, but I think I lost the hard drive that had it, I've actually been wanting to listen to it lately to remember things. I remember that it wasn't that bad to be honest, I remember there was this one piece with a"scissor" sound that I hated...think it was called Cutz. I don't remember it being awful but I don't remember it being great either. If you're expecting an album full of awesome "Alexa de Paris" type instrumentals this was not it. But I really wish Prince would've just made a general simple outline of where he wanted to go with the music, and let Clare handle everything else like before. Clare added so much to his music, I feel like after Clare passed the orchestral arrangements were never really quite right. I always hoped I could've worked on string arrangments with him eventually, I'm no Clare, but I've studied his style(along with other orchestral arraging styles in college) and feel like I could've pulled off some decent things. If not me then someone like Miguel Atwood-Ferguson would've made great arrangments. Shoot he should've let Esperanza arrange something! The arrangments on AOA(and the song Baltimore) were pretty average. I so wished he had worked with some other musicians in the past few years, I would've loved to hear him work wth Snarky Puppy,Hiatus Kaiyote,Little Dragon or even more with Janelle. I noticed he would promote some great talent( like King, Alabama Shakes,FKA Twigs) but wouldn't work with them.

[Edited 5/20/16 12:01pm]

All eleven tracks were written by Prince, and all contain him playing most of the non-orchestral instruments, with Eric Leeds playing saxophone, horns by the NPG Hornz, and orchestra added by Clare Fischer's orchestra. The album is entirely instrumental, with repeated musical themes throughout, and was recorded between Spring, 1994 and 1996 by Prince (as ) at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA, and by Clare Fischer's orchestra at Ocean Way Recording, Hollywood, CA, USA. http://princevault.com/in..._Kamasutra

Uh yeah. I know this. Hence why I said what I said. I wish Clare had been involved in the writing process more. When P worked with Clare, he typically sent him tracks that were already done, and let Clare add what he wanted, but their processes were separate. Prince would pick and choose what he liked, for example "Sometimes it Snows..." had an orchestration made for it that you hear in UTCM but isn't on Parade. This is also why Prince would use orchestrations sent by Clare for one song, on other things, like in Push on D&P. Since this was an instrumental composition which he marketed as the NPG Orchestra, I feel that Clare should've been involved in the initial process so that it sounded more cohesive. Don't come for me with the princevault copy and paste lol, I know my stuff.

NikkiH said:

"Sometimes it Snows..." had an orchestration made for it that you hear in UTCM but isn't on Parade. :

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Boy, I haven't seen that film in decades. Don't recall the orchestration. Have to give it a listen. Thanks.

I got this back in the day with my Crystal Ball set, and didn't appreciate it as much then as I do now.

Took another listen a few weeks ago and could really notice the layers of wowness that are in that album. I would say it falls more towards the classical/new agey side than the jazzy vibe. Has some really beautiful moments.

tish9311 said:

This hurts my heart because I have spent years trying to find Karma Sutra cd. Can it be that bad? Maybe that's why I couldn't find it on eBay. I still want it so I will keep looking.

I understand how you would want to complete the collection. as I said earlier on, you can play the whole thing through, it's not horrible, but it just isn't very good either. I hope you find it soon enough

tish9311 said:

This hurts my heart because I have spent years trying to find Karma Sutra cd. Can it be that bad? Maybe that's why I couldn't find it on eBay. I still want it so I will keep looking.

You can't find one on ebay because the cd version was only available as part of the Crystal Ball set. It was released as a stand alone cassette prior to that, but the chances of someone selling the cd on it's own are slim.

tish9311 said:

Karma Sutra

Kamasutra.

(Copied from another thread):

To be honest I believe it to be one of P's weakest efforts ever, but contrarily to most others who think that way it's not because I lack musical education and understand only pop music, but because I do have acquired some musical education over the years. In fact when the album got released I wasn't familiar at all with contemporary neoclassical, ambient and experimental, and I was totally impressed by it. Then over the years I started to listen to a lot of stuff in the aforementioned genres and slowly realized how amateurish an effort Kamasutra was.

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The problem is that Prince didn't do his homework. He just tried to emulate classical music on synth without realizing that all along the 20th Century there had been a whole scene of people with a classical music background who were/are composers and do that kind of stuff (to name a few among the most famous: Steve Reich, Jon Hassell, John Zorn, Philip Glass, Gavin Bryans, John Cage, Harold Budd, Chick Corea or Ryuichi Sakamoto, not to mention the dozens of musicians working on a more experimental/electronic level such as Zeena Parkins or Alva Noto, and the enormous ambient scene). By not doing his homework, Prince ended-up with a gross, naive, almost childish caricature of classical music that would have made any serious listener of contemporary music laugh out loud. It just sounded like someone who'd try to make jazz but would only know New Orleans jazz from the 1920's. To come-up with something relevant, Prince would have had to check out what was out there before going into the studio.

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Now I do appreciate the effort: I like it when a musician goes out of his comfort zone and I certainly wish Prince would do it more often, so I'm not gonna say he should have not done it at all, I'm actually glad he did, only he could have done his homework. He certainly has the talent to come-up with something more substantial that that and maybe he should give it another try, with the help of MBN and String Genius for the parts that require musical theory. There are some things on Kamasutra that I still like, but there's a lot that makes me cringe.

databank said:

(Copied from another thread):

To be honest I believe it to be one of P's weakest efforts ever, but contrarily to most others who think that way it's not because I lack musical education and understand only pop music, but because I do have acquired some musical education over the years. In fact when the album got released I wasn't familiar at all with contemporary neoclassical, ambient and experimental, and I was totally impressed by it. Then over the years I started to listen to a lot of stuff in the aforementioned genres and slowly realized how amateurish an effort Kamasutra was.

.

The problem is that Prince didn't do his homework. He just tried to emulate classical music on synth without realizing that all along the 20th Century there had been a whole scene of people with a classical music background who were/are composers and do that kind of stuff (to name a few among the most famous: Steve Reich, Jon Hassell, John Zorn, Philip Glass, Gavin Bryans, John Cage, Harold Budd, Chick Corea or Ryuichi Sakamoto, not to mention the dozens of musicians working on a more experimental/electronic level such as Zeena Parkins or Alva Noto, and the enormous ambient scene). By not doing his homework, Prince ended-up with a gross, naive, almost childish caricature of classical music that would have made any serious listener of contemporary music laugh out loud. It just sounded like someone who'd try to make jazz but would only know New Orleans jazz from the 1920's. To come-up with something relevant, Prince would have had to check out what was out there before going into the studio.

.

Now I do appreciate the effort: I like it when a musician goes out of his comfort zone and I certainly wish Prince would do it more often, so I'm not gonna say he should have not done it at all, I'm actually glad he did, only he could have done his homework. He certainly has the talent to come-up with something more substantial that that and maybe he should give it another try, with the help of MBN and String Genius for the parts that require musical theory. There are some things on Kamasutra that I still like, but there's a lot that makes me cringe.

I agree wholeheartedly.