FLAC, if it's pulled from a lossless source, is best. MP3s aren't just compressed, but the original algorhythm and coding had an error in it that was never fixed. That forever created a problem with the compression, and what you're really hearing. I think at this point, I have less than 20% of my 20K+ songs as MP3s, of any bitrate. All my CD & vinyl rips are lossless.

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I used to use Monkey's Audio (*.ape) a lot, too. That, and FLAC, were growing in popularity back in the late 90s and early aughts for storing and trading files on newsgroups, etc.

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The thing is, if you grab the FLAC, you can convert them to Apple Lossless, or any other lossless format that will work on your player (whether it's iPhone, iPod, your Android phone, etc etc etc). I don't know many devices that play FLAC files, but you can convert them to a lossless format (or other near lossless non-mp3 format) you wish.

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Just remember, once you degrade the file down to a lesser quality, whether AAC or 320K MP3 or whatever, you can't upscale it back to lossless again. It's forever changed, so hang onto the original FLAC files if necessary.

KingSausage said:

I've *never* been able to tell the difference between 320 and lossless. Ever. I have decent but not great audio gear (Sennheiser and Harman Kardon headphones, a decent headphone amp w/ DAC). I have a huge Prince bootleg collection, but I've converted everything to 320 tossed the FLAC files. Maybe someday I'll regret this? Who knows. I doubt I'll ever have a stereo or headphones nice enough to truly tell the difference. Note: I CAN distinguish 128 to 256, and 256 to 320. About Tidal, somebody sent me what were supposedly the FLAC files. I haven't done a comparison to the old NPGMC tracks, but I can promise that Props 'N Pounds still sucks.

I know I'll never regret not keeping anything in lossless. I don't think I could tell a 256k mp3 just by listening to be honest. I'd have to really pay attention and listen really closely to even attempt to try and I really don't listen to anything that closely when I'm listening to music anyway. I honestly doubt I'd be able to do a blind test of 256 and lossless and get any result which would be comparable to anything more than just guessing.

And as for Props N Pounds, yeah, that's gonna suck even listening to the master tape on some studio monitors.

KingSausage said:

I've *never* been able to tell the difference between 320 and lossless. Ever. I have decent but not great audio gear (Sennheiser and Harman Kardon headphones, a decent headphone amp w/ DAC). I have a huge Prince bootleg collection, but I've converted everything to 320 tossed the FLAC files. Maybe someday I'll regret this? Who knows. I doubt I'll ever have a stereo or headphones nice enough to truly tell the difference. Note: I CAN distinguish 128 to 256, and 256 to 320. About Tidal, somebody sent me what were supposedly the FLAC files. I haven't done a comparison to the old NPGMC tracks, but I can promise that Props 'N Pounds still sucks.

Interesting results when using LosslessAudioChecker:

Chocolate Invasion: Lossless

Slaughterhouse: Lossless

C-Note: Lossless

Xpectation: Lossless except for Xhalation, Xcogiate, and Xosphere

Who knows how reliable this is, but those are the results.

bfunk said:

Interesting results when using LosslessAudioChecker:

Chocolate Invasion: Lossless

Slaughterhouse: Lossless

C-Note: Lossless

Xpectation: Lossless except for Xhalation, Xcogiate, and Xosphere

Who knows how reliable this is, but those are the results.

Thanks for doing that, bfunk!

I downloaded The Chocolate Invasion last night. I compared When Eye Lay My Hands on U to the copy I had from the Sabotage Inner Sanctum release and I was able to do a blind A-B comparison on them and the Tidal version was the clear winner. I used "FourierRocks" to do a comparison of the WAV files generated by the MP3 version of the song vs. the FLAC, and it appears they are encoding the FLAC from the source and not just creating a FLAC from an MP3.

My main concern was that since these releases were originally sent out as MP3s, I thought they might have just created the FLACs from MP3s...thus defeating the purpose of a FLAC file!

However, the FLACs for The Chocolate Invasion, at least, appear to be the real deal and are definitely better than what I had previously.

Thanks for the help, everybody!

Toadlips said:

bfunk said:

Interesting results when using LosslessAudioChecker:

Chocolate Invasion: Lossless

Slaughterhouse: Lossless

C-Note: Lossless

Xpectation: Lossless except for Xhalation, Xcogiate, and Xosphere

Who knows how reliable this is, but those are the results.

Thanks for doing that, bfunk!

I downloaded The Chocolate Invasion last night. I compared When Eye Lay My Hands on U to the copy I had from the Sabotage Inner Sanctum release and I was able to do a blind A-B comparison on them and the Tidal version was the clear winner. I used "FourierRocks" to do a comparison of the WAV files generated by the MP3 version of the song vs. the FLAC, and it appears they are encoding the FLAC from the source and not just creating a FLAC from an MP3.

My main concern was that since these releases were originally sent out as MP3s, I thought they might have just created the FLACs from MP3s...thus defeating the purpose of a FLAC file!

However, the FLACs for The Chocolate Invasion, at least, appear to be the real deal and are definitely better than what I had previously.

Thanks for the help, everybody!

This is reassuring! I already felt the sting of paying $17.99 for each album, but to me it was worth it. Good to know that I didn't "waste" about $100 on FLAC stuff.

I've always been of the mindset that if I saw something "Prince" - get it NOW because it might be gone tomorrow. That probably won't be the case moving forward since I think that was just one of his own personal quirks.

Toadlips said:

Good morning Orgers,

I'm trying to complete my Prince collection, and I believe that everything I need is on Tidal and available for download. However, they have 2 options: FLAC or MP3. Yes, I realize that I may not be able to tell the difference, but I am anal about these things. That being said, the FLAC versions of the albums are $17.99, and the MP3 versions are $9.99, so I want to be sure I'm getting something for my money.

I realize that the original NPGMC releases were just MP3s. Has anyone actually converted the MP3s and Tidal FLACs into WAVs and compared the two? I would like to know if the FLACs are merely FLACed MP3s or if they were created from the original uncompressed source!!!

Okay i am at a loss, I subscribe to Tidal, is this in addition to the subscription?

Toadlips said:

Just a followup to the discussion. I had emailed TIDAL on May 19th asking about the quality/sourcing of the FLAC files and voiced some of our concerns. Below are the emails, with a pretty good response from their tech support/customer service. It was not a "canned" response.

Also - I got a bit of a chuckle when I saw that the guy's name is Bart -- what are the odds?




MY EMAIL TO TIDAL:

Hello -

I am part of a Prince fansite, and there is a question about the quality -- and more specifically the source -- of the following Prince titles: The Chocolate Invasion, The Slaughterhouse, Xpectation, C-NOTE and The War. There is a fear that your FLAC files might be sourced from lossy original files. Can you confirm that the FLAC files are created using lossless original files?

If you can send me back your findings, I can share with the group. Thanks in advance!


TIDAL RESPONSE #1

Hello James,

Thank you for reaching out to us here at TIDAL Member Support.

I am happy to assist you with this. We are now checking with Prince´s label about the source of those albums. I will get back to you as soon we get any answer from them.

Best Regards,

Bart
TIDAL Member Support


TIDAL RESPONSE #2

Hello again.

Here is the aswer:

I have now gone through the mentioned albums. All of them contain information in parts of the spectrum that’s normally empty if upsampled from lossy files. So, I would immediately conclude that it isn’t so. However, if there are other funny things going on is impossible to say without doing direct zero tests with for example CD material.

And then it boils down do this: Prince and the crew at Paisley Park put up exactly the material they wanted on TIDAL so this is the version they wanted to have out there.

Best Regards,

Bart
TIDAL Member Support

Sign O the Times (tidal version) sounds a lot better than the CD.

I was about to do the exact same thing for those two titles too! Do you also get artwork?

BklynDiamond said:

Toadlips said:

Good morning Orgers,

I'm trying to complete my Prince collection, and I believe that everything I need is on Tidal and available for download. However, they have 2 options: FLAC or MP3. Yes, I realize that I may not be able to tell the difference, but I am anal about these things. That being said, the FLAC versions of the albums are $17.99, and the MP3 versions are $9.99, so I want to be sure I'm getting something for my money.

I realize that the original NPGMC releases were just MP3s. Has anyone actually converted the MP3s and Tidal FLACs into WAVs and compared the two? I would like to know if the FLACs are merely FLACed MP3s or if they were created from the original uncompressed source!!!

Okay i am at a loss, I subscribe to Tidal, is this in addition to the subscription?

Yes, the TIDAL Store is available separately from the subscription service. Their MP3 prices are on par with iTunes/Amazon, but the FLAC files are a bit pricey.

I've never been a TIDAL subscriber (not even the free period) but I've bought a bunch of Prince stuff from their store.