http://www.dailymail.co.u...eased.html

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Working for him in 1983 was "my dream come true," she said.

His capacity for work was prolific. They could be in the studio for 24 to 48 hours at a time, even 96 hours on one memorable occasion.

Prince did not use music notation or write music formally. Instead, he would work through his ideas by recording.

"If he wasn't taking care of conducting business... or if he wasn't dating or seeing someone socially, which would be less often than you might think, for the most part, Prince had an instrument in his hands and he was playing music," she said.

On tour, he would sound-check for hours, perform, then play a secret all-night after-party or go into a studio or a mobile truck and record all night.

"Four hours of sleep in those days was a full night's sleep to him." She silences any suggestion that Prince ever used recreational drugs.

- Make you laugh -

"Prince was philosophically, morally and physiologically opposed to recreational drug use," she said. He coped through any bout of illness by taking medicine and never pausing to rest or to stop work.

If he was taking pain medication as reports suggest, Rogers said it would have been only so he could continue to work. "That may have covered symptoms of just how ill he actually was."

She remembered him as compassionate and warm, and while he worked quickly and efficiently, he could "really make you laugh."

Rogers recalls a time when the crew was talking about someone being "an asshole," when Prince walked in.

"And Prince said let's get something straight, there's only one asshole around here and it's me!"

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- I hope someone listens to her and Alan Leeds and people like Lisa and Wendy, Jimmy Jam and the original NPG...Michael Bland, Morris Hayes or Sonny Thompson. Don´t get me wrong folks but in my opinion it would be a shame not to let them have a say in what is going to happen with what is in the Vault. I wouldn´t want to see the Vault in certain other people´s hands in the near future.

I hope Prince made plans for the future use of his archived material and chose the caretakers wisely. Regardless of how his relationship with Susan Rogers and Alan Leeds was in the last couple of years, I think they definitely ought to be involved in any future projects.

As far as I´m concerned, I am still so devastated that I don´t even think about the Vault and his legacy that much but if anyone is capable of preserving those old archive contents and releasing them with style, class and dignity and a profound understanding and respect, it is those people I mentioned above.

Let's not give it to anyone 'too' creative. The engineers can finish it off, not some fancy dan producer.

What about Michael Koppelman? He was the engineer for Prince's 2nd great period. Bring him back ASAP I say.

It's funny that we get all these barrel-scraping albums from other artists who have passed, with dubious credentials on whether the artist was fully aware of the finished material. Here we have the opposite problem.

We could all be a hundred years gone before the 'Thunder: Deluxe Edition' comes out featuring all 28 version of the track.

McD said:

Let's not give it to anyone 'too' creative. The engineers can finish it off, not some fancy dan producer.

What about Michael Koppelman? He was the engineer for Prince's 2nd great period. Bring him back ASAP I say.

It's funny that we get all these barrel-scraping albums from other artists who have passed, with dubious credentials on whether the artist was fully aware of the finished material. Here we have the opposite problem.

We could all be a hundred years gone before the 'Thunder: Deluxe Edition' comes out featuring all 28 version of the track.

Exactly.

I think the future of his archived material depends immensely on who is going to take care of his estate, and whether he has made plans for it, which I hope he did.

His legacy is rock solid and can´t be jeopardized but the future of the vault material and how his legacy can be solidified for generations to come depends a lot on how it is going to be managed. I would not want to see his whole body of work tarnished because of petty disputes , publishing rights, money etc. etc.

Prince is too important for that, and as much as I don´t care that much about the Vault while I´m grieving, I wouldn´t want to see it sold cheaply or mismanaged or even destroyed.

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Think of Franz Kafka, one of the most brilliant writers of the 20th century. He wanted all his material to be destroyed and wrote so in his will. And he wanted his best friend to be in charge of destroying everything he wrote except for the few released books that were already out there. But his best friend Max Brodt ignored Kafka´s will and that´s the reason why the world is able to appreciate Kafka´s art.

It´s a double-edged sword, really, but from what I remember Prince definitely wanted his archivee material to be preserved for future generations. Thinking of it, in hindsight it looks like he was aware that he might die soon because unlike in the late 90s where he talked about releasing vault material he no longer seemed to be interested later and said it would be released after his passing.

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

Agree 100%. There are many rehearsals and rawer, unpolished versions of songs that I love listening to. No need to tamper with what´s already recorded and archived, even if it´s just instrumentals or basic stuff or demos, or even rehearsals.

When I mentioned the people I mentioned above , I meant that if anyone should be involved, it should be them. And I didn´t necessarily mean musically, but also in terms of archiving, releasing, commenting and documenting. Alan Leeds is the perfect person for liner notes, and so is Susan Rogers.

But....if anybody is to work on them tracks and add anything to them, I´d love to see the people mentioned above and not some random people or people who weren´t around when those songs were made.

KoolEaze said:

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

Agree 100%. There are many rehearsals and rawer, unpolished versions of songs that I love listening to. No need to tamper with what´s already recorded and archived, even if it´s just instrumentals or basic stuff or demos, or even rehearsals.

When I mentioned the people I mentioned above , I meant that if anyone should be involved, it should be them. And I didn´t necessarily mean musically, but also in terms of archiving, releasing, commenting and documenting. Alan Leeds is the perfect person for liner notes, and so is Susan Rogers.

But....if anybody is to work on them tracks and add anything to them, I´d love to see the people mentioned above and not some random people or people who weren´t around when those songs were made.

...until 1986 and 1992 respectively. They could of course do research and interview people but for most of P's career they simply weren't around. Now they have love and respect for the material, this I know, so at least they wouldn't have Akon sing a duet with Prince on a remix of Moonbeam Levels.

I just hope Prince's later catalogue isn't ignored or treated with less care than the WB years work. + while we already have been exposed to a large quantity of WB era material thx to bootlegs, what remains in the vault since 1996 is virtually unknown to us. I can't think of how many gems are to be discovered

If music from the vault is released, it needs to released AS IS. If there are unfinished, untouched up songs, we don't need anyone who is not Prince putting touches on it, or adding things that they feel Prince would have approved of. The whole notion of that is ridiculous to me and would taint the historical and personal value of that music. We can't let others make assumptions as to what Prince might have wanted any unfinished or demo like song to sound like. I think any fan would be absolutely fine with anything from the vault being released in the form Prince left it.

[Edited 4/25/16 5:55am]

leadline said:

If music from the vault is released, it needs to released AS IS. If there are unfinished, untouched up songs, we don't need anyone who is not Prince putting touches on it, or adding things that they feel Prince would have approved of. The whole notion of that is ridiculous to me and would taint the historical and personal value of that music. We can't let others make assumptions as to what Prince might have wanted any unfinished or demo like song to sound like. I think any fan would be absolutely fine with anything from the vault being released in the form Prince left it.

[Edited 4/25/16 5:55am]

I would want it as it is, authentic - even if not polished or unfinished, it would actually mean more to me with it being no so perfect.

leadline said:

If music from the vault is released, it needs to released AS IS. If there are unfinished, untouched up songs, we don't need anyone who is not Prince putting touches on it, or adding things that they feel Prince would have approved of. The whole notion of that is ridiculous to me and would taint the historical and personal value of that music. We can't let others make assumptions as to what Prince might have wanted any unfinished or demo like song to sound like. I think any fan would be absolutely fine with anything from the vault being released in the form Prince left it.

[Edited 4/25/16 5:55am]

I agree with that, except that I think it's fine if additional Kirky J remixes are made. Prince would have wanted that.

I read on Dutch news site nu.nl that Prince did not have his estate in order at all. Too many different juridical advisors over the past few years and he fired the ones who didn't agree with him.

kapo74 said:

I read on Dutch news site nu.nl that Prince did not have his estate in order at all. Too many different juridical advisors over the past few years and he fired the ones who didn't agree with him.

His estate will be a mess for quite some time unfortunately imo

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

Agreed!

KoolEaze said:

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

Agree 100%. There are many rehearsals and rawer, unpolished versions of songs that I love listening to. No need to tamper with what´s already recorded and archived, even if it´s just instrumentals or basic stuff or demos, or even rehearsals.

When I mentioned the people I mentioned above , I meant that if anyone should be involved, it should be them. And I didn´t necessarily mean musically, but also in terms of archiving, releasing, commenting and documenting. Alan Leeds is the perfect person for liner notes, and so is Susan Rogers.

But....if anybody is to work on them tracks and add anything to them, I´d love to see the people mentioned above and not some random people or people who weren´t around when those songs were made.

No, it should be a musical historian. Leeds and Rogers should be two of many sources. I don't want just their perspectives.

databank said:

KoolEaze said:

Agree 100%. There are many rehearsals and rawer, unpolished versions of songs that I love listening to. No need to tamper with what´s already recorded and archived, even if it´s just instrumentals or basic stuff or demos, or even rehearsals.

When I mentioned the people I mentioned above , I meant that if anyone should be involved, it should be them. And I didn´t necessarily mean musically, but also in terms of archiving, releasing, commenting and documenting. Alan Leeds is the perfect person for liner notes, and so is Susan Rogers.

But....if anybody is to work on them tracks and add anything to them, I´d love to see the people mentioned above and not some random people or people who weren´t around when those songs were made.

...until 1986 and 1992 respectively. They could of course do research and interview people but for most of P's career they simply weren't around. Now they have love and respect for the material, this I know, so at least they wouldn't have Akon sing a duet with Prince on a remix of Moonbeam Levels.

I just hope Prince's later catalogue isn't ignored or treated with less care than the WB years work. + while we already have been exposed to a large quantity of WB era material thx to bootlegs, what remains in the vault since 1996 is virtually unknown to us. I can't think of how many gems are to be discovered

Agreed! This is really unexplored territory. Could be lots to discover. Don't think the crew from the 80's would be interested in exploring this part of Prince's creativity because it wouldn't promote their own careers.

paulludvig said:

databank said:

...until 1986 and 1992 respectively. They could of course do research and interview people but for most of P's career they simply weren't around. Now they have love and respect for the material, this I know, so at least they wouldn't have Akon sing a duet with Prince on a remix of Moonbeam Levels.

I just hope Prince's later catalogue isn't ignored or treated with less care than the WB years work. + while we already have been exposed to a large quantity of WB era material thx to bootlegs, what remains in the vault since 1996 is virtually unknown to us. I can't think of how many gems are to be discovered

Agreed! This is really unexplored territory. Could be lots to discover. Don't think the crew from the 80's would be interested in exploring this part of Prince's creativity because it wouldn't promote their own careers.

I don't think they'd think of careers - both have had great ones and are near retirement age now, + they seem to be very honest, decent people. More like they'd mostly be interested in what they know, and probably also sharing the common opinion that what came later was less interesting - Alan Leeds at least was pretty clear about his opinion in that regard.

As far as the post-Revolution and post-Lovesexy years are concerned, I´d love to see more involvement from Sonny Thompson, Morris Hayes and Michael Bland.

Sonny´s influence and honesty with regards to Prince and his music can´t be stressed enough, he´s been there since the very early years, and Morris Hayes is someone I have a very high opinion of as a person and as a bandmember, and Michael Bland is from Minnesota, just like Sonny, and all three know his early to mid 90s, even his 00s music very well and are the link between the decades, know the material, its history, and they all are more or less familiar with the Paisley Park camp.

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And of course the ones I mentioned previously, such as Alan Leeds, Susan Rogers, Wendy and Lisa, etc. etc.

Add Kirk Johnson somewhere, he´s been through the thick and the thin with Prince and probably wouldn´t allow to see Prince´s legacy tarnished or sold cheaply.

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[Edited 4/25/16 9:01am]

databank said:

paulludvig said:

Agreed! This is really unexplored territory. Could be lots to discover. Don't think the crew from the 80's would be interested in exploring this part of Prince's creativity because it wouldn't promote their own careers.

I don't think they'd think of careers - both have had great ones and are near retirement age now, + they seem to be very honest, decent people. More like they'd mostly be interested in what they know, and probably also sharing the common opinion that what came later was less interesting - Alan Leeds at least was pretty clear about his opinion in that regard.

Maybe not their career, but their legacy. All of them have used every opportunity to talk about how much they influenced Prince. Give them he keys to the vault and they will have more opportunity to do so. Their contributions should be acknowledged, but I would prefer someone more objective to gather information from several sources. W&L, Susan Rogers and the Leeds brothers perspectives on Prince's career are already well known.

paulludvig said:

databank said:

I don't think they'd think of careers - both have had great ones and are near retirement age now, + they seem to be very honest, decent people. More like they'd mostly be interested in what they know, and probably also sharing the common opinion that what came later was less interesting - Alan Leeds at least was pretty clear about his opinion in that regard.

Maybe not their career, but their legacy. All of them have used every opportunity to talk about how much they influenced Prince. Give them he keys to the vault and they will have more opportunity to do so. Their contributions should be acknowledged, but I would prefer someone more objective to gather information from several sources. W&L, Susan Rogers and the Leeds brothers perspectives on Prince's career are already well known.

I think you're blowing that up a bit to much. I've never heard them use EVERY OPPORTUNITY to talk about how much they influenced Prince. That is not even true.

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

I'd tend to agree. For the stuff that is completed, maybe a remastering on the sound of it, but leave the production end alone. Put it out, and let it be that nugget of time as is. I think anything that was close to finished, but not quite is where Wendy, Lisa, or Dez would be workable, or Sheila depending on the time period and if they were there to begin with.

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To oversee everything, I'd be quite comfortable with Jimmy Jam and ?uestlove working together as Executive Producers. They both have Prince history, but in very different ways, both are accomplished producers and musicians. They'd be more like a guide through it, overseers, but hands off unless really necessary to drop in for something. Keep things coordinated, on track, etc.

TrivialPursuit said:

I think anything that was close to finished, but not quite is where Wendy, Lisa, or Dez would be workable, or Sheila depending on the time period and if they were there to begin with.

I'm gonna be contrarian and say it's actually might be better to keep them away from this process. For the simple reason that it is in almost every musician's nature to reassess their work and want to "improve" on it by doing new or "better" takes and rerecording material if given a chance, and I really have no interest in hearing this material with overdubs added 30 years after the fact. Anybody hear remember what Alan Douglas did with Hendrix's stuff after his death? It's different, because he brought in musicians who had never even played with the man to "complete" those tracks (and was loathed for it for years), and not the original band(s). Or Frank Zappa re-recording drum tracks for 20-year old albums in the 80s because he decided he didn't like the sound of the original tapes? Again, different, but I think "doctoring" the tapes in the Vault would result in a similarly odd-sounding end product.

From the article:

Rogers suggested that musicians with whom he worked in the 1980s and 1990s be allowed to finish unreleased songs in the style that they worked back then. "I think that would be lovely," she said.

See now, I just don't think it is at all possible to finish things "in the style that they worked back then."

I can see all of the musicians above (wendy, Lisa, Dez, Sheila) being tempted by the "I could do that better now" syndrome. And that's not what it's about. There is a spontaneity of the moment in those 80s recordings, back when everything was still on 2" tape, that nobody can recapture no matter how intimately involved. Yeah, Sheila may and Wendy may well have better chops than they did 30 years (or perhaps not) but their *attitude* will be different, the life experience that they bring to their instrument makes them (in a Buddhist sense) a completely different person than on the original recordings. There are technical considerations too: the type of equipment they were using, the microphones and and consoles used to record the material -- all that stuff has changed, and adding new overdubs in 2016, it is going to be mighty hard to mix all that stuff and make it sound cohesive and not like some kind of Frankenstein.

By all means, let them into the control room to work on final mixes for whatever stuff needs mixing. But there is a lot of work that will need to be done first. I would guess nobody here knows how much of the Vault material may exist solely as multi-track tapes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Prince had multiple two-track stereo mixdowns for nearly everything that he used as reference mixes while continuing to compose.

Does anybody know if Paisley Park had a tape archivist for the Vault? Somebody in charge of knowing where and what everything is, and how many versions of it might be around? My own dream would be to hear this stuff in whatever state it was left in whenever possible, but in the event that - for example - the 2-track master isn't in great shape, or perhaps a song has multiple mixes where it is known that Prince wasn't happy with any of them, but it is possible to see what his vision was and where it was going - then I think a good tape archivist would be indispensible. Believe it or not, engineers often took production notes and left them with the tapes, too. Even if the original engineers are brought back in some capacity, they're not going to remember a lot of details without soething (or someone) to prompt them, and that's where a tape archivist and librarian would be playing an important role.

[Edited 5/16/16 19:06pm]

KoolEaze said:

Think of Franz Kafka, one of the most brilliant writers of the 20th century. He wanted all his material to be destroyed and wrote so in his will. And he wanted his best friend to be in charge of destroying everything he wrote except for the few released books that were already out there. But his best friend Max Brodt ignored Kafka´s will and that´s the reason why the world is able to appreciate Kafka´s art.

I've been thinking about this too lately! But I would phrase the situation a little differently than you did. As far as I know the story, it was that he considered his unpublished (and in some cases unfinished) manuscripts to be of no interest or not as good as his published material, and so - as you said - stipulated in his will that all his notebooks should be destroyed. To me this goes to show that the artist is not necessarily the best judge of what their own best material is, because IIRC some of Kafka's most famous and enduring novels -- for example, The Trial and The Castle, I think - were unpublished at the time of his death. Had his executor and friend actually carried out his will, the world would have been deprived of at least a few bonafide literary masterpieces.

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

I agree with this. even those close to Prince - Alan Leeds, Susan Rogers, Jimmy Jam & whoever else - it doesn't make sense to me to mess with what probably is "musical perfection". by the time Prince put (all these) songs in this so-called Vault, they were very likely in the final form in which he wanted them. I don't believe he would have put them there if he didn't think they were ready for release. even if some/all of these songs are of "demo quality" I'd rather have them that way rather than have them produced - or over-produced (by Jimmy Jam?) by someone else. Prince's music is PRINCE'S music. more times than not, his musical instincts were right on point. I wouldnt mess with that..

FGVibes said:

We've seen what's happened to 2Pac's and Michael Jackson's catulogue. Let's hope Prince's estate don't make the same mistakes.

KoolEaze said:

databank said:

I believe the material should be left untouched. It doesn't have any sense to me to have people, whoever, working on the tracks. There's a lot of material that's ready for release anyway and whatever is in more demo-like state should be made available as such for the hardcore fans if not for the masses.

Agree 100%. There are many rehearsals and rawer, unpolished versions of songs that I love listening to. No need to tamper with what´s already recorded and archived, even if it´s just instrumentals or basic stuff or demos, or even rehearsals.

When I mentioned the people I mentioned above , I meant that if anyone should be involved, it should be them. And I didn´t necessarily mean musically, but also in terms of archiving, releasing, commenting and documenting. Alan Leeds is the perfect person for liner notes, and so is Susan Rogers.

But....if anybody is to work on them tracks and add anything to them, I´d love to see the people mentioned above and not some random people or people who weren´t around when those songs were made.

I disagree.

If it's not completed, it should not be released. Prince's Vault has more than enough completed material to fill the need for posthumous releases as it is. Releasing material that is not complete - outside of the context of expanded box sets of previously released material (a la the Nirvana super deluxe box sets, for example) - would tarnish the legacy of Prince and the image of the Prince Estate and everyone involved.

To use Nirvana again: the estate of Kurt Cobain has become a laughingstock because of releases like that. And so have the reputations of the people involved. Words like "vulture" and "milking" get thrown around a lot.

They released stuff like "With The Lights Out" for the fans. Most of the box set was unlistenable, either because the demos they released were bad or because the sound quality was bad. They repeated it with Kurt Cobain's Home Recordings that they released alongside the documentary. That was even worse. They were unlistenable and devalued Kurt's work.

That could even be seen with other artists, like Jimi Hendrix. Releasing and rereleasing the same songs over and over, in increasingly bad quality, despite the fact that they have stuff that people want and haven't released it (like Black Gold).

I don't want them to do that to Prince. That would ruin his image. Even if the superfans would want it.

bluegangsta said:

We've seen what's happened to 2Pac's and Michael Jackson's catulogue. Let's hope Prince's estate don't make the same mistakes.

2Pac's unreleased material was a special case. The unreleased material they have from him wasn't taken care of during the tie he was alive and certainly not after he died.

Death Row Records turned all their 2Pac material over, but most of the materials had multiple different problems with them:

1. Much of the unreleased material wasn't taken care of, so a lot of the original reels were lost. For example, the song "Soon As I Get Home" (which was left completely untouched when it was released on Pac's Life) didn't come from masters. It was taken off of a tape.

2. The samples used in many of the songs weren't cleared or would cost too much to clear.

3. The songs were being, literally, stolen out of the vaults even until recently because bootleggers wanted them. Executives tasked with maintaining the vaults for Amaru Entertainment and the remains of Death Row Records (WIDEAwake before it declared bankruptcy, Entertainment One now) were just stealing things out from under the late Afeni Shakur's nose and resold for hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. And now, 2Pac's material is in the hands of private traders.

4. Afeni did not want references to the various fueds that 2Pac was involved in or to his anti-cop bent. So she had people edit the material when it was released.

A lot of the mistakes made were out of the estate's hands (excluding edits made because of Afeni's wishes). It also didn't help that the estate of 2Pac was, and still is, a mess.