Friends,

I am hoping I can rely on some guidance from folks here to help me focus on Prince's post-Musicology output. I've largely heard it, although some is sparsely available, and I haven't taken a deep dive.

Parenthetically, the updated version of the book is likely to include a new chapter covering 2004/Musicology, a build-out of some earlier chapters, and a substantial afterward that gives an overview of later work and overall appraisal. I won't be doing a granular, chapter-by-chapter exploration of 2005 on, but hope to give some insight into the period.

(My gratitude if it is possible to suspend, if only for this thread, any personal attacks, as it does hurt a bit atfter awhile. And I again appreciate everyone who has said kind stuff and offered constructive criticism.)

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the following:

(1) What do you see as the five songs, including 3121 and onward, that are most essential to the Prince canon?

(2) What was Prince's strongest post-Musicology live line-up? (I saw a video of a show from the Montreaux jazz festival with Rhonda Smith, Renato Neto, and John Blackwell that was incredible.)

(3) Do you think anything strong has been added to the Vault over the last 12 years, or did most of the strongest stuff see the light of day?

(4) What do you feel are the two most significant books to be written about Prince over the past 10 years, other than Alan Light's? (That's a gimme, but it addresses very well-covered terrain.)

Thank you kindly,

Alex

@alexhahnlaw on Twitter

Keep it civil on this thread folks

1) "Reflection", "The Word", "Way Back Home", "Revelation" and "Black Muse"

2) 3RDEYEGIRL. The "Live Out Loud" Tour was Prince's rejuvenation as a live performer and musician. That tour, he had Donna Grantis as a guitar protege-passionate about blues and rock music learning to incorporate soul and funk music into her repertoire. Mentoring Hannah Welton, building her chops to play John Bonham rhythms to funk rhythms. With youth in his band, he had creative stimulus that gave him renewed inspiration as a musician and songwriter. From 2010-2012, his concerts were a formulaic rehash of the soul and funk music medley he had done to death with Shelby J, Elisa Fiorillo and Liv Warfield. He sounded like a bat out of hell with the revamped version of "Let's Go Crazy" and culminated in "Plectrumelectrum" the album. Some songs should not have been on there but he built a band from scratch and for one tour, showed music fans that he is far from a relic and still can kick ass on any stage and any studio.

3) Prince had varied creative pursuits and in the last 5 years was serious about recording instrumental music. NPGQ with Andrew Gouche, John Blackwell, Xavier and Marcus Anderson in 2014 and this year with Kirk Johnson, Adrian Crutchfield and Mononeon. Projects that are not commercially viable but artistically challenging-then yes.

4. Prince In The Studio (1975-1995) by Jake Brown and THE VAULT - The Definitive Guide to the Musical World of Prince. No sensationalism or hype. Just the facts.

I'll address question 4 just by saying I though Matt Thorne's book was great & Toure's was lousy.

bashraka said:

1) "Reflection", "The Word", "Way Back Home", "Revelation" and "Black Muse"

2) 3RDEYEGIRL. The "Live Out Loud" Tour was Prince's rejuvenation as a live performer and musician. That tour, he had Donna Grantis as a guitar protege-passionate about blues and rock music learning to incorporate soul and funk music into her repertoire. Mentoring Hannah Welton, building her chops to play John Bonham rhythms to funk rhythms. With youth in his band, he had creative stimulus that gave him renewed inspiration as a musician and songwriter. From 2010-2012, his concerts were a formulaic rehash of the soul and funk music medley he had done to death with Shelby J, Elisa Fiorillo and Liv Warfield. He sounded like a bat out of hell with the revamped version of "Let's Go Crazy" and culminated in "Plectrumelectrum" the album. Some songs should not have been on there but he built a band from scratch and for one tour, showed music fans that he is far from a relic and still can kick ass on any stage and any studio.

3) Prince had varied creative pursuits and in the last 5 years was serious about recording instrumental music. NPGQ with Andrew Gouche, John Blackwell, Xavier and Marcus Anderson in 2014 and this year with Kirk Johnson, Adrian Crutchfield and Mononeon. Projects that are not commercially viable but artistically challenging-then yes.

4. Prince In The Studio (1975-1995) by Jake Brown and THE VAULT - The Definitive Guide to the Musical World of Prince. No sensationalism or hype. Just the facts.

if you read a Jake Brown book you should get tested. Look him up. Any "facts" presented by him should be verified or taken with a grain of salt

He's a poor-man's Ronin Ro

1) "June".....2)"Black Sweat".......3)"Hardrocklover"....4)"Black Muse"......5)"Time"...............3RDEYEGIRL..It was cool and fun to see him break out of the live r&b/soul format and do the guitar hero thing. He had a new sound, style and look (it reminded me of when he changed his look and sound back in the 80's). The group received mixed reviews from the fans but I enjoyed it...Except P-Funk and Mother's Finest, I can't think of any other r&b artist that can pull that off........He's recorded so much so it's hard to answer..like the others have said, the MonoNeon project sounded interesting.....To be honest, I stopped buying books about him in the late 90's..they (to me) were all starting to tell the same story. I would just breeze through or borrow them. And I agree that Toure's book wasn't that great.

djThunderfunk said:

AlexHahn said:

Friends,

I am hoping I can rely on some guidance from folks here to help me focus on Prince's post-Musicology output. I've largely heard it, although some is sparsely available, and I haven't taken a deep dive.

Parenthetically, the updated version of the book is likely to include a new chapter covering 2004/Musicology, a build-out of some earlier chapters, and a substantial afterward that gives an overview of later work and overall appraisal. I won't be doing a granular, chapter-by-chapter exploration of 2005 on, but hope to give some insight into the period.

(My gratitude if it is possible to suspend, if only for this thread, any personal attacks, as it does hurt a bit atfter awhile. And I again appreciate everyone who has said kind stuff and offered constructive criticism.)

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the following:

(1) What do you see as the five songs, including 3121 and onward, that are most essential to the Prince canon?

(2) What was Prince's strongest post-Musicology live line-up? (I saw a video of a show from the Montreaux jazz festival with Rhonda Smith, Renato Neto, and John Blackwell that was incredible.)

(3) Do you think anything strong has been added to the Vault over the last 12 years, or did most of the strongest stuff see the light of day?

(4) What do you feel are the two most significant books to be written about Prince over the past 10 years, other than Alan Light's? (That's a gimme, but it addresses very well-covered terrain.)

Thank you kindly,

Alex

@alexhahnlaw on Twitter

Thx for posting and asking

.

1) Too many to list, I appreciated most of P's work until the end. I had a massive crush for the Lotusflow3r trilogy and his latest album HitnRun Phase Two.

.

2) The Rhonda/Renato/John line-up (with Morris Hayes sometimes added as a second keys player, and various horn players on occasions) is by far my favorite Prince band from the last 15 years and, to be honest, maybe even ever.

.

3) No way to know about quality, but someone close to Paisley Park told me that Prince never ceased to record intensively and that his unreleased output was as huge as ever in quantity. That person I can't name publicly out of respect, but is a well known associate whose word can't be questioned.

.

4) I have a lot of books to catch-up with, I've only read yours, Per's, Liz Jones' and Dez Dickerson's.

.

As I said in the other thread my only frustration is that Prince's creative process from 1978-1888 has been super documented, a bit less from 89-95 and nearly not at all ever since. I wish I one day will be able to know as much about P's life and recording sessions after 1990 as I know from the 80's!

NorthC said:

On the one hand it would be great if we as fans have some input on a book, but on the other... If I read a book, I want it to tell me something I don't already know! So I'm wondering why Alex wants to write a new version so badly?

To be honest, Iwas't sure how excited I would be about this, but I've felt the fire burn pretty strongly in the last few days to work on this project. It's bringing back a lot of positive and poignant memories, and I do feel like I have some things to say. If you do have any thoughts to share, much obliged. I'm enjoying and appreciating very much what people have said so far.

databank said

.

2) The Rhonda/Renato/John line-up (with Morris Hayes sometimes added as a second keys player, and various horn players on occasions) is by far my favorite Prince band from the last 15 years and, to be honest, maybe even ever.

.

3) No way to know about quality, but someone close to Paisley Park told me that Prince never ceased to record intensively and that his unreleased output was as huge as ever in quantity. That person I can't name publicly out of respect, but is a well known associate whose word can't be questioned.

.

Great points. I saw the Montreaux show with that line-up on YouTube and I was agape at how good it was. The Lovesexy tour band was great but I think this group is better.

NorthC said:

Don't worry, I'll keep it civilized, but I do have some doubts about this project. Mr. Hahn admits in so many words (in two threads by now) that he doesn't know much about Prince's later years. And now he is asking us for advice. On the one hand it would be great if we as fans have some input on a book, but on the other... If I read a book, I want it to tell me something I don't already know! So I'm wondering why Alex wants to write a new version so badly?

He wants the money?

^ Guys, seriously? It's pretty rude to address someone who is here as if they weren't (third person). Alex Hahn is here! I may have had my reservations about certain aspects of Possessed, as explained in Alex' other thread, but it doesn't mean I feel entitled to disrespect his hard work. We need people to research Prince's career, we enjoy reading the result of their research, let us show some respect and encourage them to come here and interact with us, even if we don't agree with everything they've written in the past.

databank said:

^ Guys, seriously? It's pretty rude to address someone who is here as if they weren't (third person). Alex Hahn is here! I may have had my reservations about certain aspects of Possessed, as explained in Alex' other thread, but it doesn't mean I feel entitled to disrespect his hard work. We need people to research Prince's career, we enjoy reading the result of their research, let us show some respect and encourage them to come here and interact with us, even if we don't agree with everything they've written in the past.

If you've read the book though

1) 3121, Black Muse, Colonized Mind, June, Way Back Home.
2) Rhonda, John, Renato and Morris of course.
3) I'm pretty sure there's a lot of stuff we don't have idea about in there.
4) Reference books, I'm not into biographies at all.

[Edited 5/8/16 10:35am]

NinaB said:

Chelsea Rodgers. Colonized Mind. Dreamer. Future Soul Song. Indifference. Sincere condolences Alex, I cringed reading some of the responses 2 your last thread. I felt like i lost my skin when my Mum died, Take care mate, pay no mind 2 the insensitive ones x

Thanks very much, Nina. It is really tough to lose parents, I understand that so directly now, indeed. We share together in this human experience of grief.

I have been listening to the songs people have recommended and I am fairly dumbstruck. They are incredible. in fairness, Prince has made it hard to be a consumer of his music. Years later, having put aside my frustration about certain things, it is a pleasure to discover this material that displays creativity, passion, verve, incredible playing, the elements of surprise that charaterized earlier work, and dynamic production values. I appreciate the suggestions for listening, and the more the merrier.

Ambulance chasing now?

AlexHahn said:

databank said:

AlexHahn said:

Friends,

I am hoping I can rely on some guidance from folks here to help me focus on Prince's post-Musicology output. I've largely heard it, although some is sparsely available, and I haven't taken a deep dive.

Parenthetically, the updated version of the book is likely to include a new chapter covering 2004/Musicology, a build-out of some earlier chapters, and a substantial afterward that gives an overview of later work and overall appraisal. I won't be doing a granular, chapter-by-chapter exploration of 2005 on, but hope to give some insight into the period.

(My gratitude if it is possible to suspend, if only for this thread, any personal attacks, as it does hurt a bit atfter awhile. And I again appreciate everyone who has said kind stuff and offered constructive criticism.)

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the following:

(1) What do you see as the five songs, including 3121 and onward, that are most essential to the Prince canon?

(2) What was Prince's strongest post-Musicology live line-up? (I saw a video of a show from the Montreaux jazz festival with Rhonda Smith, Renato Neto, and John Blackwell that was incredible.)

(3) Do you think anything strong has been added to the Vault over the last 12 years, or did most of the strongest stuff see the light of day?

(4) What do you feel are the two most significant books to be written about Prince over the past 10 years, other than Alan Light's? (That's a gimme, but it addresses very well-covered terrain.)

Thank you kindly,

Alex

@alexhahnlaw on Twitter

How does not keeping up with Prince for years and polling Prince.org for your information make you qualified to write anything about Prince?

NorthC said:

databank said:

^ Guys, seriously? It's pretty rude to address someone who is here as if they weren't (third person). Alex Hahn is here! I may have had my reservations about certain aspects of Possessed, as explained in Alex' other thread, but it doesn't mean I feel entitled to disrespect his hard work. We need people to research Prince's career, we enjoy reading the result of their research, let us show some respect and encourage them to come here and interact with us, even if we don't agree with everything they've written in the past.

It's one thing for David Gibbons to write a 14 volume series of books called "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" several centuries after it happened, but quite another to write about "The Rise and Fall of Prince" when the man was still alive and kicking and making music. That could also be considered as rude. What fall? One could talk about a "fall" of Sly Stone I suppose. But with Prince... Even someone who stopped following him years ago must have noticed he never "fell". Yes, we need people to research Prince's music, also the later stuff, I'd love to read about, for instance, Musicology or Lotusflow3r sessions, but what makes a writer who has been out of touch with Prince's music for years the best person to do this? (And I'm using the third person because this post isn't directed to Alex, but to everybody who reads this.)

I strongly disagreed with the premise and as I said earlier I felt Alex was trying to hard to make a point, and yes I always wonder in that kind of case how will the subject of the book (Prince) feel if he reads it. Now fact is that at the time (IDK about more recent books) it was the closest we had to DMSR Part 2. Regardless of how I felt about the writer's opinions, or Prince's possible feelings, I was glad that the source of information was here.

I also assume one doesn't have to be a hardcore fan who follows everything to catch-up and do a real research/journalistic work if they are professionals.

The matter of whether Prince "fell" or not is probably the most debated among us fans, and a premise that a lot of journalists/critics seem to take seriously (how many reviews contained the words "his best since Sign O The Times" or "not as good as Sign O The Times but..."), now Possessed was not a "Prince is over and done" thread on the org: besides the opinions there were new things for us to learn in that book.

Hahn wrote Possessed to get back at Prince for the Uptown debacle.

I was thena nd now a huge fan of Uptown and their work but Hahn is a lawyer and an ambulance chasing one at that. He PMed me for knowledge about Prince that was widely available and not secret. I find that type of journalism shoddy.

AlexHahn said:

Parenthetically, the updated version of the book is likely to include a new chapter covering 2004/Musicology, a build-out of some earlier chapters, and a substantial afterward that gives an overview of later work and overall appraisal. I won't be doing a granular, chapter-by-chapter exploration of 2005 on, but hope to give some insight into the period.

I understand the reasoning for devoting pages to Musicology BUT shouldn't this be combined with 3121 to focus on that "comeback" period for him? Musicology reached #3 in the US and while it was certified 2x Platinum, that was very much off the back of the Cd being included in ticket sales. ...but 3121 hit #1 in 2006 in the US, his first since #1 Batman in 1989.

I think LotusFlow3r in 2009 deserves some notable attention in any sort of afterward as selling extremely well being sold only in Target stores and, of course, Art official Age in 2014 being his return to Warner Bros.

(1) What do you see as the five songs, including 3121 and onward, that are most essential to the Prince canon?

Black Sweat (from 3121), Somewhere Here On Earth (from Planet Earth), Colonized Mind (from Lotusflow3r), Dance 4 Me (from MPLSoUND), Clouds (from Art Official Age), and June (From HITnRUN: Phase 1). Yes I know that's 6 but those are mine...

(3) Do you think anything strong has been added to the Vault over the last 12 years, or did most of the strongest stuff see the light of day?

When Prince left WB, I think his grip began tightening on potential leaks. While he had the freedom to release when/what he wanted it seems clear there are still a lot of strong tracks in the vault as they continue to trickle out.

Hope that helps!!!

Thanks,

John

[Snip - luv4u]

IMO, the strongest line up he had after NPG 95 was the one with Blackwell, Renato, Rhonda and eventually Mike Scott

1) Get On The Boat, Future Soul Song, WHITECAPS, Black Muse, June