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Thread started 05/07/16 2:24pm

McD

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40 studio albums, not 39... I want to 'ret-con' his discography

Pretty simple, this... Prince is now on record as having released 39 studio albums in his lifetime. Not only does 40 sound better (and more!), it's also the correct number as far as I'm concerned.

The missing album is New Power Soul. Here's why I think it should be included.

- it's as much a Prince album as anything else he ever did
- he's the lead vocalist
- he features solely on the cover as blatantly as any other album, more so than most
- he is NAMED on the cover (this should be the end of it right here)
- if you really want to hammer the above point home, he's named THREE TIMES!
- other than his new name and the lack of an 'ampersand', it's the same album credit as Diamonds and Pearls, and Symbol
- Prince never corrected interviewers who said the album was by 'The Artist'

As we all know, the album is now credited to the NPG across the net (Princevault, Wiki, etc), despite the fact that the rule behind that project - infact, ALL side projects - is that Prince wasn't the lead vocalist.

The album is a perfect match for official solo albums, and has nothing in common with a single side project.

Arguments against: It was referred to as NPG featuring Prince (see Tavis Smiley) at the time. This doesn't match the cover, nor does Prince have an issue when Smiley later says it's simply from 'The Artist'.

If you include this, you might say, why not also Madhouse 8 since that's the same circumstances as NEWS? Here's why not...
- Madhouse doesn't name Prince on the cover
- nor show him
- he isn't singing throughout it like 95% of his solo albums
- he didn't tour it for part of that year as his current 'record'

I think with 9 full CDs of new music in less than 2 years, he hedged his bets a bit with the title of this one. Maybe part of him realised Warners had a point. So he released an album with dubious cover credits. But then acted like it was his current solo album.

There was also the nagging suspicion at the time that it just wasn't good enough to be a fully fledged Prince album. But from 2016, we can count anywhere from a few to a dozen or more that can't match it.

Another argument against... should we include it retroactively, as I believe we should, 3121 loses its possible album title concept as being #31. Small price to pay.
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Reply #1 posted 05/07/16 2:30pm

dustoff

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Agreed. I've always thought of Newpower Soul as a "Prince album." (And a good one.)

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Reply #2 posted 05/07/16 2:33pm

sro100

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I counted that 39 figure myself; it's quite suspect actually.

MPLS Sound and LotusFlower are counted as two separate albums.

Ditto, for the Truth and Crystal Ball.

Should Chocolate and Slaughterhouse really be counted?

If they're counted how many odds and ends should be include?

The Undertaker was sort-of released; on Laserdisc.

If you count New Power Soul then you count other NPG releases as well?

800-New-Funk is just as much of a Prince album as NEWS; from a certain point of view.

etc. etc.

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Reply #3 posted 05/07/16 2:36pm

dustoff

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sro100 said:

I counted that 39 figure myself; it's quite suspect actually.

MPLS Sound and LotusFlower are counted as two separate albums.

Ditto, for the Truth and Crystal Ball.

Should Chocolate and Slaughterhouse really be counted?

If they're counted how many odds and ends should be include?

The Undertaker was sort-of released; on Laserdisc.

If you count New Power Soul then you count other NPG releases as well?

800-New-Funk is just as much of a Prince album as NEWS; from a certain point of view.

etc. etc.


At a certain point these numbers just seem arbitrary. I sorta think of "Exodus" as just another Prince album, given how far up in the mix his "background" vocals are.

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Reply #4 posted 05/07/16 2:37pm

langebleu

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moderator

And if we crack this one, less important world issues should be a walkover

ALT+PLS+RTN: Pure as a pane of ice. It's a gift.
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Reply #5 posted 05/07/16 2:48pm

McD

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As for the arbitrary nature... I'd just ask, is it a proper studio album (The Undertaker definitely isn't), credited to Prince, and with its own title.

The only difference between Crystal Ball/The Truth, LotusFlower/MPLSound and the more distinct AOA/Plectrumelectrum, in terms of counting, is just packaging.

He could have five more studio albums just by chucking a name on a bunch of otherwise non-album songs... but he didn't do so.

NPS on the other hand was a Prince album... even in name, and treated as such. Something I didn't mention at the off was he possibly downplayed 'Prince' as it was part of the New Power Pack, and he may have thought the NPG credit wouldn't overwhelm the other two discs as much. But used his own name anyway! And then he toured the thing.

Like it or loathe it, it's a Prince album.
[Edited 5/7/16 14:51pm]
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Reply #6 posted 05/07/16 2:57pm

RiotPaisley

I thought that number was weird. I'm confused about R2TJF. I saw it listed twice in NW Or Time.

I agree. I loved NPS. I'd totally add that to the grossly underrated.

Freaks on this Side and Mad Sex. Classic 0+>
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #7 posted 05/07/16 3:22pm

TheEnglishGent

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RiotPaisley said:

I thought that number was weird. I'm confused about R2TJF. I saw it listed twice in NW Or Time. I agree. I loved NPS. I'd totally add that to the grossly underrated. Freaks on this Side and Mad Sex. Classic 0+>


There were two albums, 'Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic' and 'Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic'. The latter one had remixes, some longer cuts and a couple of alternate tracks.

RIP sad
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Reply #8 posted 05/07/16 3:31pm

RiotPaisley

TheEnglishGent said:



RiotPaisley said:


I thought that number was weird. I'm confused about R2TJF. I saw it listed twice in NW Or Time. I agree. I loved NPS. I'd totally add that to the grossly underrated. Freaks on this Side and Mad Sex. Classic 0+>


There were two albums, 'Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic' and 'Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic'. The latter one had remixes, some longer cuts and a couple of alternate tracks.



Oh what? Dang how did I miss that? In my defense I was out of the country.

I'm glad there's still undiscovered stuff for me. I'm kind of jealous of all these cats just coming on to him but I know I'm more blessed to have lived his antics. lol

I hope they rerelease that one. Both actually cuz the one I have is scratched.
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #9 posted 05/07/16 3:36pm

TheEnglishGent

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RiotPaisley said:

TheEnglishGent said:


There were two albums, 'Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic' and 'Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic'. The latter one had remixes, some longer cuts and a couple of alternate tracks.

Oh what? Dang how did I miss that? In my defense I was out of the country. I'm glad there's still undiscovered stuff for me. I'm kind of jealous of all these cats just coming on to him but I know I'm more blessed to have lived his antics. lol I hope they rerelease that one. Both actually cuz the one I have is scratched.

Rave In2 was an NPGMC only release.


https://en.wikipedia.org/..._Fantastic

RIP sad
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Reply #10 posted 05/07/16 3:40pm

newpowergenera
tion

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Glad to see the love for NPS. That album - loved it when it came out, still love it now. The title track, the second half of When U Love Somebody, the Come On remix - I got into Prince properly in 1998 so NPS was very much a gateway drug smile

Oh yeah and Wasted Kisses... Deep

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Reply #11 posted 05/07/16 3:41pm

RogerRoger

Will the number 40 brighten your day?
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Reply #12 posted 05/07/16 3:49pm

skipthecharade
s

TheEnglishGent said:

RiotPaisley said:

TheEnglishGent said: Oh what? Dang how did I miss that? In my defense I was out of the country. I'm glad there's still undiscovered stuff for me. I'm kind of jealous of all these cats just coming on to him but I know I'm more blessed to have lived his antics. lol I hope they rerelease that one. Both actually cuz the one I have is scratched.

Rave In2 was an NPGMC only release.


https://en.wikipedia.org/..._Fantastic

Rave In2 has Beautiful Strange, for me that's the reason to prefer it over Rave Un2.

Love that song.

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Reply #13 posted 05/07/16 4:00pm

McD

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RogerRoger said:

Will the number 40 brighten your day?


The number 39 is being reported all over the show now, probably as a result of news editors checking Wiki. That figure includes NEWS, MPLSound, 20Ten, The Slaughterhouse, Xpectation, etc... but definitely not New Power Soul. And I think it is not only more deserving than about 10 other titles (based on the work he put into selling it - a tour, videos), it's also plain and simple credited as a Prince album.

That's all.
[Edited 5/7/16 16:00pm]
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Reply #14 posted 05/07/16 4:03pm

Cloreen

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.

This one is not shelved at the end of my Prince CDs with the compilations or "Girl 6." Nope, placed right in its proper chronological place between "Crystal Ball" and "The Vault...Old Friends 4 Sale." It belongs there because I always felt it is a Prince album.

.

[img:$uid]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4166E3PC5GL.jpg[/img:$uid]

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Reply #15 posted 05/07/16 4:09pm

Aerogram

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I didn't even cross my mind Prince should NOT be blamed for the entire record, so he should get credit where credit is due... and blame where it is justified.

There are some classic Prince tracks like Come On, The One and Wasted Kisses, but too much of the rest seems to a product of uninspired jamming at Paisley Park, with some pancrea-challenging tunes thrown in.

That said, he was dealing with massive grief when he made this album. It's almost a miracle it has at least three classic Prince tracks.

[Edited 5/7/16 16:10pm]

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Reply #16 posted 05/07/16 6:07pm

Cloreen

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.

40?

.

I have it at 42. I count "The Truth," "New Power Soul," and "Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic," and "C-Note." Those get you to 42 official album releases.

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Reply #17 posted 05/07/16 6:50pm

McD

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Cloreen said:

.


40?


.


I have it at 42. I count "The Truth," "New Power Soul," and "Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic," and "C-Note." Those get you to 42 official album releases.



C-Note is just a few live soundcheck jams. It's not an album, and definitely not a studio album.

And although Rave In2 is fairly unusual in Prince's discography, it's very common in most others, especially these days when most albums get re-kitted out and resold. None of those artists would dream of swelling their album count for each alternative version / deluxe / extra track edition. There's no way you can count this one, even if he did change a vowel in the title.
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Reply #18 posted 05/07/16 7:01pm

Cloreen

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McD said:

C-Note is just a few live soundcheck jams. It's not an album, and definitely not a studio album.
And although Rave In2 is fairly unusual in Prince's discography, it's very common in most others, especially these days when most albums get re-kitted out and resold. None of those artists would dream of swelling their album count for each alternative version / deluxe / extra track edition. There's no way you can count this one.

.

1. Ok, so "C-Note" is out because of it being a non-studio album. Hmmm, I wonder if Peter Frampton then excludes "Frampton Comes Alive" from his official album count.

.

2. Yes, "Rave In2..." is essentially just a re-mix with one or two different songs. But isn't it really a different listening experience? It's a different album, no?

.

Just a fun exercise really in trying to figure this out. No one can be right, no one can be wrong. Compilations, greatest hits albums are often counted in discographies. No one here is adding those to Prince's album count but based on what other artists do, they could.

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Reply #19 posted 05/07/16 7:11pm

wahclavinet

I've always thought of New Power Soul as a Prince album. The One and Come On were important Prince singles with promo videos where the artist was listed as Prince.

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Reply #20 posted 05/07/16 7:42pm

McD

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Cloreen said:



McD said:






C-Note is just a few live soundcheck jams. It's not an album, and definitely not a studio album.

And although Rave In2 is fairly unusual in Prince's discography, it's very common in most others, especially these days when most albums get re-kitted out and resold. None of those artists would dream of swelling their album count for each alternative version / deluxe / extra track edition. There's no way you can count this one.

.


1. Ok, so "C-Note" is out because of it being a non-studio album. Hmmm, I wonder if Peter Frampton then excludes "Frampton Comes Alive" from his official album count.


.


2. Yes, "Rave In2..." is essentially just a re-mix with one or two different songs. But isn't it really a different listening experience? It's a different album, no?


.


Just a fun exercise really in trying to figure this out. No one can be right, no one can be wrong. Compilations, greatest hits albums are often counted in discographies. No one here is adding those to Prince's album count but based on what other artists do, they could.



It's a different listening experience if you put a different track on the end too. Hence half of all released albums count twice when we take into consideration the deluxe version. Some artists (Paul McCartney) tried to counter that by having a long silent gap before additional tracks.

Even before the current glut of deluxe remasters, just the advent of CD gave a different listening experience. MJ's Bad and Kate Bush's The Sensual World both finished differently on CD. I couldn't care less about MJ since every song on it was a single, but the Bush experience really suffered with the extra track and 'different ending'. But... same album.

I think you CAN be definitive with an answer to this one. Most artists could answer the question fairly easily. 39 hasn't been pulled out of someone's ass - it's a very convincing, considered list. With, imho, just one flaw.

But... I'm still pretty sure that 3121 referenced his 31st album. Which means he wasn't counting one (if we assume the 40). And that's got to be either NPS or, debatably The Black Album. Maybe even The Truth at a push. It's a shame he didn't continue that early T-shirt idea of naming all of his albums within the 'symbol' (back when he renamed Batman as 'Scandalous'), or have an official website that did this job for us.
[Edited 5/7/16 19:42pm]
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Reply #21 posted 05/07/16 8:09pm

Adorecream

Me too I agree, NPS is a Prince album, not an NPG one, prominent vocals and Prince songscapes. But it is still his very worst album ever released and probably why so many don't want to count it.

.

My list of so called official studio albums (No proteges, outakes, hits with 3 new songs, greatest hits, collabs or band albums, limited release music club issues)

.

1. For You

2. Prince

3. Dirty Mind

4. Controversy

5. 1999

6. Purple Rain

7. ATWIAD

8. Parade

9. Sign o the Times

10. Black album (Issued after Come, but recorded between Sign and Lovesexy so I put it here)

11. Lovesexy

12. Batman

13. GB

14. Diamonds and Pearls

15. Lovesymobol

16. Come

17. The Gold Experience

18. Chaos and Disorder

19. Emancipation

20. Newpowersoul

21. Rave in2

22. Vault

23. Raveun2

24. The Rainbow children

25. One Nite Alone live

26. One nite alone piano and aftashow

27. N.E.W.S.

28. Musicology

29. 3121

30. Planet Earth

31. Lotusflow3r

32. MPLSound

33. 20Ten

34. Plectrum Electrum

35. Art Official Age

36. Hitnrun Phase 1

37. Hitnrun Phase 2

.

Seem to be a bit short here!, so I will add

38. The Truth

39. Kamasutra

40. 21 nights

.

Hits collections

1. Hits 1 and 2 (Separate albums)

2. Hits/Bsides (Complete set of 3 albums/discs) B sides not for sale separately)

3. The very best of Prince

4. Ultimate

.

Other Prince items

1. Crystal Ball (3cds of 1980s and early/mid 1990s outtakes)

2. Xpectation (All below to #5 are NPG Music club releases)

3. Cnote

4. Slaughterhouse

5. Chocolate Invasion

6. High (Unfinished 2000 project)

7. 94 East/ Symbolic Beginnings (Various permutations of 1975/77 recordings of Pepe Willie material which had Prince playing guitar on some tracks, a lot of music on these labums has no Prince involvement, either way none of this music was officially released until 1986 when Prince had broken through with Purple Rain)

.

That is the list I have always worked with, not including NPG albums, Proteges and the great unreleased projects, add these on and you are closing in on 75 to 100 albums!

.

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #22 posted 05/07/16 8:35pm

sexton

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I consider Newpower Soul to be a New Power Generation album featuring Prince on lead vocals and many instruments--like 8 & 16 are Madhouse albums featuring Prince on most instruments. Prince released it as a "solo" New Power Generation album for a reason so that's how it's reflected in my collection, filed with Exodus and apart from Prince's albums.

Also, my CD doesn't say Prince anywhere on the front, back or spine.

[Edited 5/7/16 21:13pm]

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Reply #23 posted 05/07/16 9:00pm

Cloreen

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McD said:

Kate Bush's The Sensual World finished differently on CD.

.

I did not know that. I have the CD, never knew it was different from the record.

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Reply #24 posted 05/07/16 9:11pm

Grog

Why can't we count The Time, The Family, Vanity, etc?

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Reply #25 posted 05/07/16 9:16pm

Adorecream

Grog said:

Why can't we count The Time, The Family, Vanity, etc?

Because they are Prince penned and Prince played, but they were showcased as belonging to the artist named. Also in the early days the albums were marketed as being composed by the groups, with Prince involvement becoming known only later.

.

Also the list was for Prince product under his own name or the symbol or his name and the symbol's name with a band. Prince's name is not Vanity6 or Time. lol

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #26 posted 05/07/16 9:19pm

Grog

Adorecream said:

Grog said:

Why can't we count The Time, The Family, Vanity, etc?

Because they are Prince penned and Prince played, but they were showcased as belonging to the artist named. Also in the early days the albums were marketed as being composed by the groups, with Prince involvement becoming known only later.

.

Also the list was for Prince product under his own name or the symbol or his name and the symbol's name with a band. Prince's name is not Vanity6 or Time. lol

Yes, I know, but I'm talking about the reality of the situation--names aside, they were Prince albums, right?

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Reply #27 posted 05/07/16 9:27pm

McD

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Grog said:



Adorecream said:




Grog said:


Why can't we count The Time, The Family, Vanity, etc?



Because they are Prince penned and Prince played, but they were showcased as belonging to the artist named. Also in the early days the albums were marketed as being composed by the groups, with Prince involvement becoming known only later.


.


Also the list was for Prince product under his own name or the symbol or his name and the symbol's name with a band. Prince's name is not Vanity6 or Time. lol



Yes, I know, but I'm talking about the reality of the situation--names aside, they were Prince albums, right?



They have neither his name nor face on the cover, nor feature his lead vocals. And, in some cases for Paisley Park/ NPG albums involving Prince, a small percentage of tracks had no P involvement at all. Nor did he tour those albums as his current 'release'.

Whole different ball game.

Can you tell me the difference between Vanity 6 and Purple Rain as they pertain to being by Prince? Sure you can. Try it with NPS. Hell, he dominates one cover so much more than the other it isn't even funny.
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Reply #28 posted 05/07/16 9:31pm

McD

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Cloreen said:



McD said:


Kate Bush's The Sensual World finished differently on CD.

.


I did not know that. I have the CD, never knew it was different from the record.




The album ends beautifully with This Woman's Work. The CD chucked on an extra track, ruining one of the best album closures of all time. In my opinion. According to Prince's engineer, he didn't like the album save for This Woman's Work.
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Reply #29 posted 05/07/16 9:36pm

RiotPaisley

TheEnglishGent said:



RiotPaisley said:


TheEnglishGent said:



There were two albums, 'Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic' and 'Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic'. The latter one had remixes, some longer cuts and a couple of alternate tracks.



Oh what? Dang how did I miss that? In my defense I was out of the country. I'm glad there's still undiscovered stuff for me. I'm kind of jealous of all these cats just coming on to him but I know I'm more blessed to have lived his antics. lol I hope they rerelease that one. Both actually cuz the one I have is scratched.

Rave In2 was an NPGMC only release.


https://en.wikipedia.org/..._Fantastic



Yeah I have other stuff from the club- I guess I just didn't notice that slight difference.

Where does The War fall in this discussion??
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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