Damn...just take him to the ritziest hospital in Minnapolis! They surely could have done what they could to keep things quite and if it gets out.......SO THE HELL WHAT?.

Sad part is.. that the Betty Ford clinic was pretty much a straight shot down the road from Paisley Park.

dolphinkiing23 said:

It seems that he was possibly underestimating the severity of the issue. Hell, maybe the issue wasn't even severe in an overall view, but that it had briefly become severe for whatever reason. If he had the actual flu, as oppose to withdrawal flu like symptoms, then I can definitely see his body not handling the pain, sickness AND meds very well which in his case culminated in the 2 episodes that we know of.

We'll never know. And that's what hurts the most :/

I don't think it had anything to do with shame or his celebrity status. You can't make an addict want to get help. He probably should have been forced against his will to get help and that sounds like what was planned although it was too late. I just dont understand why he wasnt held while in Illinois. I'm sure his "people" feel major guilt now.

It was definitely a pride/shame issue on his part, and my guess, what psychiatrists refer to as 'splitting'.

fortuneandserendipity said:

It was definitely a pride/shame issue on his part, and my guess, what psychiatrists refer to as 'splitting'.

So do you think he suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

Narcissistic personality disorder

People matching the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder also use SPLITTING as a central defence mechanism. Most often the narcissist does this as an attempt to stabilize their sense of self positivity in order to preserve their self-esteem, by perceiving themselves as purely upright or admirable and others who do not conform to their will or values as purely wicked or contemptible. Given "the narcissist's perverse sense of entitlement and splitting ... [s]he can be equally geared, psychologically and practically, towards the promotion and towards the demise of a certain collectively beneficial project".^[13]

The cognitive habit of splitting also implies the use of other related defence mechanisms, namely idealization and devaluation, which are preventative attitudes or reactions to narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury.^[11]

[Edited 5/5/16 11:53am]

hell, that sounds like most americans period.

and yes, at this point, I do believe the need for help and the lack of privacy created a bad situation for a guy who had his own way of dealing with pain. We won't know the full story for awhile but that's what it looks like.

pld71 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

It was definitely a pride/shame issue on his part, and my guess, what psychiatrists refer to as 'splitting'.

So do you think he suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

Narcissistic personality disorder

Main article: Narcissistic personality disorder

People matching the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder also use SPLITTING as a central defence mechanism. Most often the narcissist does this as an attempt to stabilize their sense of self positivity in order to preserve their self-esteem, by perceiving themselves as purely upright or admirable and others who do not conform to their will or values as purely wicked or contemptible. Given "the narcissist's perverse sense of entitlement and splitting ... [s]he can be equally geared, psychologically and practically, towards the promotion and towards the demise of a certain collectively beneficial project".^[13]

The cognitive habit of splitting also implies the use of other related defence mechanisms, namely idealization and devaluation, which are preventative attitudes or reactions to narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury.^[11]

[Edited 5/5/16 11:53am]

Not at all, I was using the term 'splitting' to mean a thought process aberration, not behaviour per se. I'm not well versed enough with psychiatric manuals, interpretations to know if it only applies to NPD sufferers. I imagine it's common amongst many different disorders, but don't really know for sure.

We all need to chill on this, because we simply DO NOT know what killed the man. Pain is severe and if that was it then all of things do not jive, he would not have been able to do shows addicted to a pain killer like that which causes you to sleep for the most part, and all accounts he was alert and up and doing encores. SO something there does not jive, also hearing the term "he was suffering from a grave medical emergency" to me is more than "hip pain" it's telling me complications from his "flu" or maybe other things. The deal is we don't know, so I hear things like ADDICT and DRUGS being tossed around and that is dangerous when you don't know anything about the man personally.

PurpleMusic07 said:

It seems that he was possibly underestimating the severity of the issue. Hell, maybe the issue wasn't even severe in an overall view, but that it had briefly become severe for whatever reason. If he had the actual flu, as oppose to withdrawal flu like symptoms, then I can definitely see his body not handling the pain, sickness AND meds very well which in his case culminated in the 2 episodes that we know of.

We'll never know. And that's what hurts the most :/

.

I could see underestimating it before the 14th but after ODing on a plane and having to land, seems like time to take it super seriously. But instead he was on his bike and partying at Paisley. Of course he was also seeing doctors, so he was trying but something just went horribly wrong on the 20th.

What "shame" are you talking about?

Don't you mean PRIDE?

Two sides of the same coin

RogerRoger said:

What "shame" are you talking about?

Don't you mean PRIDE?

RogerRoger said:

What "shame" are you talking about?

Don't you mean PRIDE?

I meant, he was too proud to admit that he had a problem- because the opposite of pride is shame, and he was all intent on avoiding that feeling.

I was thinking this too today. I'd say 75% of his fans would not have cared. It seems like Steven Tyler spends about as much time in rehab as he does out. El Debarge openly mixes lyrics about crack in with his hits. Prince's image could have more than withstood a problem with drugs.

fortuneandserendipity said:

RogerRoger said:

What "shame" are you talking about?

Don't you mean PRIDE?

I meant, he was too proud to admit that he had a problem- because the opposite of pride is shame, and he was all intent on avoiding that feeling.

You really have no idea what you're talking about and look foolish. Prince was well aware of the rehab representative coming in from California. He was actively seeking help. How is that being "too proud to admit he had a problem"? Get your facts straight and let that man rest in peace.

hard to get in anyone's head but I once heard in a sociology class that different drugs cause different feelings. Marijuana was usually communal while heroin was shameful and secretive. Pride and shame are important topics with addiction. Someone misquoted me a coupla pages ago when I said "common junkie" in reference to elvis. I should have been much clearer, Elvis could not see himself as a "common junkie", he never seriously was involved with street drugs to my knowledge, so to his thinking, when rumors came out that he was "strung out" he went berserk. He was a very proud man, and I believe on of his friends said as much when he threatened to kill someone who overprescribed him. The pride leads to a lot of denial, rationalization, projection. In fact, in a taped phone call right before he died, his fired bodyguard who was spilling all the beans, told him he was "fucked up" to which he said he was never better. With Prince you have a guy who prided himself on his discipline and also liked his privacy and mystery. If it turns out that he got hooked on something, it would have been a nightmare for him. Of course, if that was the case, he should have still just dealt with it headon, especially when hours and days counted. Anyway, we don't know yet.

Why would he be ashamed? The man was private his whole career...kept his shit together and I've always respected him for that. He wanted help, but started too late. It came down to trying to keep his dignity as a person. You see how they have talked about him in death so imagine if he had gotten help TMZ would've been all over it and poor Prince would've had to live through all this mess.

You see the things that have been said cuz he passed in an elevator....even in death people will still talk shit.

how much do any of us know right now? One thing, it still hurts pretty bad.

And Im serious if muthafuckas start emailing his death photo Im burning the Org down!!!! Folks emailing asking for pics n shit. I know that pic is out there because of the investigation and I would hope the Org has more class than to post that shit.

BreakfastCanWait said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I meant, he was too proud to admit that he had a problem- because the opposite of pride is shame, and he was all intent on avoiding that feeling.

You really have no idea what you're talking about and look foolish. Prince was well aware of the rehab representative coming in from California. He was actively seeking help. How is that being "too proud to admit he had a problem"? Get your facts straight and let that man rest in peace.

No, your explanation doesn't reveal facts, you're going off your own supposition. If he discharged himself from the hospital a week earlier, then it is also more likely HIS FRIENDS requested help from the pain management doctor, and that may have happened without his consent.

Also, you have no idea how celebrity works, do you? They are always under pressure from having to perform and be in the public eye. Have you seen Madonna or Prince in interview, like all the interviews. Isn't it evident enough how taciturn he is, how unwilling he and certain others are to open up and tell all.

PeteSilas said:

hard to get in anyone's head but I once heard in a sociology class that different drugs cause different feelings. Marijuana was usually communal while heroin was shameful and secretive. Pride and shame are important topics with addiction. Someone misquoted me a coupla pages ago when I said "common junkie" in reference to elvis. I should have been much clearer, Elvis could not see himself as a "common junkie", he never seriously was involved with street drugs to my knowledge, so to his thinking, when rumors came out that he was "strung out" he went berserk. He was a very proud man, and I believe on of his friends said as much when he threatened to kill someone who overprescribed him. The pride leads to a lot of denial, rationalization, projection. In fact, in a taped phone call right before he died, his fired bodyguard who was spilling all the beans, told him he was "fucked up" to which he said he was never better. With Prince you have a guy who prided himself on his discipline and also liked his privacy and mystery. If it turns out that he got hooked on something, it would have been a nightmare for him. Of course, if that was the case, he should have still just dealt with it headon, especially when hours and days counted. Anyway, we don't know yet.

Exactly, agree with all of that.

.

[Edited 5/5/16 18:19pm]

Wait till the facts are in before drawing any conclusions, and be slow to draw them even then.

rainbowchild said:

I say, religious fanaticism can kill you-- especially those who rely on "prayer" alone to cure them rather than seeking and following medical advice.

Agreed.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet about Prince's possible cause of death is myocarditis. I know first hand about this as it almost killed me. Assuming that he was suffering flu-like symptoms for whatever reason, sometimes if the body/immune system is weakened the virus can affect the heart lining and wall and weaken the heart, sometimes triggering a heart attack. This may explain the rapid decline in his condition and difficulty breathing.