Doozer said:

. I have never seen anyone complain about the instrumental breakdown at the end of ICNTTPOYM!

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"Never Take Place Of Your Man" is the bounciest of all pop songs. Quick and peppy. Why, oh why, would anyone bring that to a grinding halt for three minutes? The single version is pure perfection. That album version is a lesson on how to destroy a great song. Prince has done many strange things throughout his career, but none stranger than tacking on a plodding three minutes dirge on to one of the greatest, peppiest pop songs of all time.

Cloreen said:

That album version is a lesson on how to destroy a great song.

Probably not a good idea to post on here while you're high on crack...

Cloreen said:

Doozer said:

. I have never seen anyone complain about the instrumental breakdown at the end of ICNTTPOYM!

.

"Never Take Place Of Your Man" is the bounciest of all pop songs. Quick and peppy. Why, oh why, would anyone bring that to a grinding halt for three minutes? The single version is pure perfection. That album version is a lesson on how to destroy a great song. Prince has done many strange things throughout his career, but none stranger than tacking on a plodding three minutes dirge on to one of the greatest, peppiest pop songs of all time.

I disagree, and think that portion makes the whole thing better, and more interesting.

Also, it's worth noting that the tempo never changes - the snare just drops out during that segment.

Cloreen said:

Doozer said:

Cloreen said:

The guitar work going on in those 3 minutes is unlike anything on any other studio album of his. In my opinion, you're dismissing something as plodding because the song changes up a bit, but you're missing a magical instrumental interlude. . No one else in pop music had a song that diverse and sweeping at the time. It's a case study in what makes SOTT as an album so great - such diversity and so eclectic. Put some good headphones on and enjoy some great musicianship. Don't get so lost in thinking it doesn't fit the song. It IS the song.

Two points I completely agree with. Sign O the Times is not only Prince's most diverse CD as far as musical styles, it is also one of the most diverse if any artist. Prince's swipe at U2, whose Joshua Tree beat SOTT for album of the year, was valid. He could play their style of music but they could not play Housequake. (JT was a great album for sure but SOTT was a once in a generation masterwork). SOTT had pop, rock, hip hop, folk, R and B, whatever the hell Ballad of Doroth Parker was, ballads, fast songs....it was a songbook of music styles. It was rooted in commercial appeal but with a song like ICNTPOYM, Prince extends it just because he could and because it was sick. Just like coughing at the beginning of Raspberry Beret Prince took what we all expected and fulfilled it and then twisted it in the direction he wanted and then brought it back. As to the headphones, I listened to the cassette on my walkman SO many times, discovering something new every time, a voice here, an instrument there. One time I was mowing the grass while listening to it and ran the lawn mower right over a huge tree stump, damn near chopped something off. That was the power of Prince.

thedance said:

eyewishuheaven said:

mrwiggles said:

Complete masterwork. The stripped down "It" is still my personal fave.

IT! Now that I find interesting. It is commonly referred to here as one of the weakest tracks (admittedly on a very strong album). I don't necessarily agree with that assessment, and it's nice to see It getting some love.

I think It gets forgotten because to get the most out of it, you have to pay very close attention to it - if it's just playing in the background, it can seem come off as kind of flat.

"It" and "It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night" are the two of the best racks on the entire album and yet reguarly get treated like filler by many other Prince-obsessed. Go figure. I fucking LOVE "It" and speaking of "It" was it not in the setlight for P&M?? I think I saw where it was.

Cloreen said:

GottaLetitgo said:

Prince's swipe at U2, whose Joshua Tree beat SOTT for album of the year, was valid. He could play their style of music but they could not play Housequake.

Actually, that's completely invalid. The 'award' is for Best Album, not artist-who-can-play-more-styles-than-another-artist. It's also not for Best Artist. It's for Best Album.

rusty1 said:

No way!! Come is alright Nowhere in "Sign o' the Times" league U are joking right?

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No. "Come" is a fantastic album. While "Sign O Times" stretches things to the point of losing focus, "Come" is tight as hell and from song one to, well, that song where we hear an orgasm. The whole thing is tight as hell.

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"Come" really is a top Prince album. Really give that one another spin. Then give it another. So many great songs and great moments. I could honestly say that Prince's vocal on "Space" is among the best he's ever done. The "I've had dreams of us cuddling on the planet Mars..." section where he starts with a raspy growl and then smoothly slides into his falsetto that melts you is astonishing.

Re: "Never Take The Place Of Your Man"

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Look, "Never Take The Place" should not in any way have an extended section that brings the bouncy song to a dead stop. You can say, "Wow, Prince is doing something unorthodox there," but I can say, "Man, he just killed a great pop song." Prince grew up listening to AM radio. Pop songs. He certainly knows how to craft them. Why, oh why, did he take one of his best and sabotage it with a sudden drop in fun and pep? For 3:30 we are bopping and rolling along to that song....and then..."Wait, what the hell happened to the groove? Did my CD skip to another song? Did some hater at Warner Brothers secretly mess with the master tapes to deliberately destroy a great song?"

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6:30 version of the song is not better than the 3:30 version.

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Hey, we all have different tastes. No problema.

I'm listening to 'The Cross' right now. Is Tidal doing something to the sound? Because it sounds so much fuller and the vocals much clearer than it ever has before for me. This has got to be one of Prince's most powerful songs. I'm not particularly religious, but you feel a higher power as it fills up the room.

Oh, yeah, also, this is the album that converted me. It's a really coherent statement, despite that it's sometimes called sprawling and messy. Prince is showing every side of himself here and it takes your breath away.

[Edited 5/8/16 0:36am]

[Edited 5/8/16 0:37am]

Cloreen said:

Re: "Never Take The Place Of Your Man"

.

Look, "Never Take The Place" should not in any way have an extended section that brings the bouncy song to a dead stop. You can say, "Wow, Prince is doing something unorthodox there," but I can say, "Man, he just killed a great pop song." Prince grew up listening to AM radio. Pop songs. He certainly knows how to craft them. Why, oh why, did he take one of his best and sabotage it with a sudden drop in fun and pep? For 3:30 we are bopping and rolling along to that song....and then..."Wait, what the hell happened to the groove? Did my CD skip to another song? Did some hater at Warner Brothers secretly mess with the master tapes to deliberately destroy a great song?"

.

6:30 version of the song is not better than the 3:30 version.

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Hey, we all have different tastes. No problema.

That's an interesting take, but I've got to disagree. The shortened version may be a bouncier number, and it's true that many of Prince's greatest works are airtight pop songs with a dark tone ("When You Were Mine"). But this song is aiming for more than just a good time. Prince could have made it simply about a man's rejection of a single mother for fear of the responsibility, which the first half accomplishes brilliantly, but to me, the second half's guitar solo reveals the main character's bitter taste about his rejection of her, which deepens the song. The solo is like the guy stops dead in his tracks and reflects on what he's turned down and what kind of man he is. It's full of torment, like he's angry with himself for not being able to be more to her. When Prince's voice comes back in at the end it's so powerful because he brought the song down and worked through some kind of ineffable pain.

Cloreen said:

GottaLetitgo said:

Sign O the Times is the BEST FREAKING ALBUM OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Since his passing I've been playing each Prince album entirely and in order of release and I have discovered that "Come" is a far better album than "Sign O The Times." Top to bottom "Come" is near perfect. Not a bum track and some very great ones. "Sign O The Times" on the other hand, has too many weak moments. Even the brilliant "Never Take Place Of Your Man" is destroyed by that nonsensical slowing down extension that goes on and on and features a very weak guitar break. "Sign O The Times" should have been a single album. No doubt.

.

All should do it -- play every Prince album in order from "For You" to "Phase 2." You may be surprised by how you view things. Heck, I now think "Symbol" album is pretty darn good. Never really liked it. Do now.

Sign ☮ The Times has "If I Was Your Girlfriend" in the tracklist. Your comment is invalid by default. *Mic drop*

ThePanther said:

Aerogram said:

????????????

You need a few more semesters at Prince U.

The whole point of SOTT is that it's an artistic statement first and a commercial venture second. Removing the more whimsical tracks means that it's no longer SOTT. And removing the track SOTT itself is sheer madness.

Sorry but this is one of the worst posts I've read this week.

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Nice. The point of my question was mainly to point out how great Disc 2 of the album is. I thought that might be an interesting talking point. Thanks for turning my hypothetical into a bitch-fest, though. Carry on...

It's like asking if the 10 Commandments would be more popular if there were just five. There's a bounty of great material on both of the records, so for sure they would have had enough success if released on their own. Together, they form something that is more than the sum of their parts, a complete journey through his musical universe. Doesn't matter to me if the sales would have been stronger if they only released record 1 or record 2, just like it would not matter to me if the Mona Lisa would attract bigger crowds at the Louvres if only she could smile more.

[Edited 5/8/16 3:58am]

paraded said:

That's an interesting take, but I've got to disagree. ....the second half's guitar solo reveals the main character's bitter taste about his rejection of her, which deepens the song....

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Fine. Very interesting view on the song's second half.

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The best I can say is that we should be happy we have both the 3:30 version and the 6:30 version. You can enjoy your version, I can enjoy mine, some can enjoy both.

ThePanther said:

Years ago, I was reading a comment thread on a review of one of Prince's more recent albums. Someone commented, "Prince hasn't released a great album since Sign O' The Times." Someone else replied, "If Sign O' The Times is your litmus test for what constitutes greatness, then NO ONE has released a great album since Sign O' The Times."

carlluv said:

Somebody needs to release Starfish and Coffee as a single. That song has so much potential

Absolutely, is a great song; and those lyrics are just beautiful.

Cloreen said:

Re: "Never Take The Place Of Your Man"

.

Look, "Never Take The Place" should not in any way have an extended section that brings the bouncy song to a dead stop. You can say, "Wow, Prince is doing something unorthodox there," but I can say, "Man, he just killed a great pop song." Prince grew up listening to AM radio. Pop songs. He certainly knows how to craft them. Why, oh why, did he take one of his best and sabotage it with a sudden drop in fun and pep? For 3:30 we are bopping and rolling along to that song....and then..."Wait, what the hell happened to the groove? Did my CD skip to another song? Did some hater at Warner Brothers secretly mess with the master tapes to deliberately destroy a great song?"

.

6:30 version of the song is not better than the 3:30 version.

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Hey, we all have different tastes. No problema.

Is great as it is, but like you say tenemos diferentes gustos no hay problema con ello.

Aerogram said:

ThePanther said:

.

Nice. The point of my question was mainly to point out how great Disc 2 of the album is. I thought that might be an interesting talking point. Thanks for turning my hypothetical into a bitch-fest, though. Carry on...

It's like asking if the 10 Commandments would be more popular if there were just five. There's a bounty of great material on both of the records, so for sure they would have had enough success if released on their own. Together, they form something that is more than the sum of their parts, a complete journey through his musical universe. Doesn't matter to me if the sales would have been stronger if they only released record 1 or record 2, just like it would not matter to me if the Mona Lisa would attract bigger crowds at the Louvres if only she could smile more.

[Edited 5/8/16 3:58am]

This is so great i laughed