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Reply #30 posted 04/30/16 6:01am

Doozer

avatar

If Prince has specific wishes for what happened to vault material, he had plenty of resources and connections to legally outline his wishes. He was a smart man and spent more than half his life chasing ownership of his recordings, which thankfully happened within his lifetime. If control/ownership meant something to him after his time on earth, he could have easily made that known in a will.
.
Don't misunderstand my tone - it could sound like I'm "blaming" Prince, that it's his fault that this is an issue now. Quite contrary, I think the fact that he did NOT leave a will or any specific instructions regarding unreleased material is because he saw no value focusing energy into that kind of thinking. "Someone" will release it, he said. Perhaps that's a window into his mindset that after his death, it didn't matter to him. He was at peace with his soul, had a relationship with God, and earthly properties would matter nothing to him once his life was over.
.
The worst part about it is the legal and financial mess it left for his family to work through. It must be exhausting and will take months or years to iron out.
[Edited 4/30/16 6:04am]
Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
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Reply #31 posted 04/30/16 9:27am

leecaldon

BanishedBrian said:

leecaldon said:

I think you've got it wrong on this one. Prince's comments suggested he would have no problem with the Vault material released. I find it utterly bizarre that someone who fought so hard for their legacy left no instructions as to how to go about it though. Can't get my head around that.

To use the most extreme example, let's say there's an original/long version of Extra Loveable in the Vault. That's an amazing song, that will surely get released, as it's the cream of the crop.

If Prince were giving detailed instructions of what to do, how would he be able to cause that song to be released given the rape language at the end? There's no way he could do so.

If he simply leaves it there with no instructions what to do, the practical effect is the song gets released, but he's never blamed for authorizing it. History will say it was pulled out of his private Vault and released without his specific authorization. That's really the best outcome for him if he wanted his music released but he was in a different moral place today than he was in the mid-80s.

That's a very good point. I still think it odd he wouldn't have communicated at some point which person/people would be suitable for overseeing it.

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Reply #32 posted 04/30/16 9:39am

RodeoSchro

Prince's entire estate must be appraised and valued, so that the estate tax can be calculated. This is a law and the IRS will enforce it, I promise.

Therefore, the vault will be opened and every single thing in it will be catalogued. Someone will try to appraise it and come to a value that the IRS will accept. Then the estate tax will be calculated on the agreed-upon value of ALL of Prince's assets, including EVERYTHING in the vault.

If anyone destroys anything from the vault, they could very well be charged with a crime. I don't think you can destroy the assets of an estate, because you are taking away taxable assets and therefore tax revenue. I'm pretty sure anyone that did that would be charged with a crime, possibly a federal crime, but I'd have to do some research to be certain of that. But I can tell you, destroying assets isn't a risk I would take.

Those estate taxes have to be paid within a short period of time, so whomever is in charge of Prince's estate will have to come up with money to pay them. And I am postive that the contents of the vault will be very valuable. Think about the revenue generated by the estates of Hendrix, Elvis and Michael Jackson. Those estates have generated $100's of millions and I'd bet the IRS is going to say Prince's unreleased stuff - being maybe 100 times bigger than all three of those other estates combined - is certainly going to be valued very high.

The way I see it, Prince's estate is either going to have to:

1. Sell the rights to ALL his music to someone who will then be in a financially-motivated position to release it; or

2. Borrow against his music rights to pay the taxes, which means they'll have to pay back that loan. Which means they'd have to generate revenue and the best way to do that is to sell his music, including as much of the unreleased music as they can.

I have the feeling Prince thought of these scenarios and may have decided that doing nothing was the best thing he could do for his estate.

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Reply #33 posted 04/30/16 9:55am

Shockedelicus

The vault being opened is inevitable. The question is how the music will be distributed. Hopefully the right hands will handle the music with the respect it deserves.

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Reply #34 posted 05/01/16 9:17pm

kano

Shockedelicus said:

The vault being opened is inevitable. The question is how the music will be distributed. Hopefully the right hands will handle the music with the respect it deserves.


The ultimate question is, what is the correct level of respect? Yours, mine, someone who was close to P?

For me, the bottom line is that unless the person who made the piece of art oversees its release, it can never be allowed the right level of care. That doesn't just mean not allowing enough, it also means providing too much. Finding the right balance is a delicacy only its artist can truly understand.
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Reply #35 posted 05/01/16 9:21pm

TryWhistlingTh
is

It's being handled by Top Men (I hope they don't mean Jacko's old man):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M

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Reply #36 posted 05/01/16 9:34pm

Thizz

The premise of this thread seems to disregard everything Prince has indicated on the subject.

Furthermore - common sense would indidcate the following. If he didn't want them released he would have disposted of them. Not kept them safely preserved in a vault

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Reply #37 posted 05/01/16 9:41pm

TryWhistlingTh
is

I'm just relieved Prince didn't have a will ordering the destruction of the vault contents upon his death. I seriously expected that given how protective he was of his work. If he didn't want WB handling his work while he was alive, to me it seemed unlikely to have the material distributed without his supervision.

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Reply #38 posted 05/01/16 9:42pm

kano

Thizz said:

The premise of this thread seems to disregard everything Prince has indicated on the subject.



Furthermore - common sense would indidcate the following. If he didn't want them released he would have disposted of them. Not kept them safely preserved in a vault


Even though I've spoken respectively about other fans opinions and tried to argue my point without being aggressive or trying to be superior, that's the final conclusion you come to, that I wilfully want to disregard P's wishes?

Whoever said the art of reading was dead.
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Reply #39 posted 05/01/16 10:29pm

violectrica

avatar

kano said:

NorthC said:


That's right. He never said anything about destroying. If that was his wish, why keep those recordings in a vault in the first place? The music should be released for a number of reasons:
-It will help us fans and the general public to remember him as the great artist he is. (Can't bring myself to say "was")
-If Tyka and the family don't do it, bootleggers will.
-What's the point of keeping those recordings locked up for all eternity? That will only cost money.
-If Paisley Park is to become a museum, then money needs to be made!

Personally I think this is all more about what we want to hear, than want Prince himself would have wanted.

Just because there is no comment made before he unexpectedly passed, doesn't mean the opposite course of action should be taken. If no instruction is left, then leave it alone!

Prince spent half his career trying to gain control of his work and controlling how and where it was heard. He expected to live and long and healthy life until this tragedy. I'm sure he had his own plans but if they are not expressed, do we make our own assumptions or base them on his actions while alive?
[Edited 4/30/16 5:11am]

Well the body Bible says dead men have no plans, and he believed in that. So there you go.
No matter the ©️, Paisley Park "official can never ™️ prince. He gave that to us verbally on Oprah in 1996. You can't take prince away from us, corporate. I mean O ( + >
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Reply #40 posted 05/01/16 10:35pm

Thizz

kano said:

Thizz said:

The premise of this thread seems to disregard everything Prince has indicated on the subject.

Furthermore - common sense would indidcate the following. If he didn't want them released he would have disposted of them. Not kept them safely preserved in a vault

Even though I've spoken respectively about other fans opinions and tried to argue my point without being aggressive or trying to be superior, that's the final conclusion you come to, that I wilfully want to disregard P's wishes? Whoever said the art of reading was dead.

Speaking of reading comprehension

Which part of this do you not understand

On his unreleased music:

I've never said this before, but I didn't always give the record companies the best song. There are songs in the vault that no one's ever heard. There are several vaults; it's not just one vault.

Are there full unreleased albums?
Yeah, I like time capsule stuff. I have a couple Revolution albums in the vault and two Time albums, one Vanity 6 album … and tons of stuff recorded in different periods. But so much gets recorded that you don't have time to compile everything. In the future you could put all the best stuff from one particular time period together and then you can release it. It'd just be like if we found a Sly and the Family Stone album and they saved their best stuff. If that's even possible!

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Reply #41 posted 05/01/16 11:02pm

derrick31

It will be released and marketed properly because the estate needs the revenue the music will generate. Prince also probably has thousdands of hours of footage from his shows.

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Reply #42 posted 05/02/16 12:24am

jaypotton

RodeoSchro said:

Prince's entire estate must be appraised and valued, so that the estate tax can be calculated. This is a law and the IRS will enforce it, I promise.

Therefore, the vault will be opened and every single thing in it will be catalogued. Someone will try to appraise it and come to a value that the IRS will accept. Then the estate tax will be calculated on the agreed-upon value of ALL of Prince's assets, including EVERYTHING in the vault.

If anyone destroys anything from the vault, they could very well be charged with a crime. I don't think you can destroy the assets of an estate, because you are taking away taxable assets and therefore tax revenue. I'm pretty sure anyone that did that would be charged with a crime, possibly a federal crime, but I'd have to do some research to be certain of that. But I can tell you, destroying assets isn't a risk I would take.

Those estate taxes have to be paid within a short period of time, so whomever is in charge of Prince's estate will have to come up with money to pay them. And I am postive that the contents of the vault will be very valuable. Think about the revenue generated by the estates of Hendrix, Elvis and Michael Jackson. Those estates have generated $100's of millions and I'd bet the IRS is going to say Prince's unreleased stuff - being maybe 100 times bigger than all three of those other estates combined - is certainly going to be valued very high.

The way I see it, Prince's estate is either going to have to:

1. Sell the rights to ALL his music to someone who will then be in a financially-motivated position to release it; or

2. Borrow against his music rights to pay the taxes, which means they'll have to pay back that loan. Which means they'd have to generate revenue and the best way to do that is to sell his music, including as much of the unreleased music as they can.

I have the feeling Prince thought of these scenarios and may have decided that doing nothing was the best thing he could do for his estate.



:yeahthat:
yeahthat yeahthat
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
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Reply #43 posted 05/02/16 12:38am

13stretch

its just a shame he didnt release more of the vault when he was alive .

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Reply #44 posted 05/02/16 12:38am

jaypotton

****Personal opinion alert****


1. It is inevitable that as Prince fans many of us are salivating at the prospect of finally getting our hands on material from the fabled and much touted (by Prince himself) Vault.

2. It does seem a bit hasty for us to be be discussing it with our man only so recently gone...but again human nature. The Vault was synonymous with Prince so again inevitable.

3. I think it is inevitable that the estate will do something to release vault material but I really hope this is very carefully planned and treated with due respect. Hopefully they will see this as a long term project that should be done carefully to protect Prince's legacy.

4. Prince himself made it clear the music and other material in the Vault would come out at some point. Probably after his death. I think the Rolling Stone interview that we will see published in the next edition contained instructions...he liked time capsule stuff and referenced completed Revolution and Time albums.

5. I do not want anything touched apart from cleaning up tape hiss etc and engineer type stuff... No producer meddling. Certainly no remixes by the latest hot producer. Prince always produced himself and was renown for recording a song from start to finish in a single studio session. So the songs in the vault will for the most part be pretty complete. So they should be released as a snapshot of that time period.

6. Saying all that it is very interesting that in the last couple of years Prince allowed Josh to co-produce. Something that NEVER happened before. Why? Perhaps there is an argument Josh should finish things off BUT personally I hope not.

7. I say yes to vault releases but I would prefer to wait and give the estate an appropriate amount of time to do it properly and with the right level of reverence and respect. Do not open the flood gates but judicially package up some amazing releases to come out periodically.

Oh and final point...personally I really really hope they do not exploit the publishing rights and see Prince's songs plastered all over adverts etc. That would be awful.
[Edited 5/2/16 0:47am]
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
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Reply #45 posted 05/02/16 4:07am

NME01

kano said:

Shockedelicus said:

The vault being opened is inevitable. The question is how the music will be distributed. Hopefully the right hands will handle the music with the respect it deserves.


The ultimate question is, what is the correct level of respect? Yours, mine, someone who was close to P?

For me, the bottom line is that unless the person who made the piece of art oversees its release, it can never be allowed the right level of care. That doesn't just mean not allowing enough, it also means providing too much. Finding the right balance is a delicacy only its artist can truly understand.


Getting 'the right people' is also about adding value. If a faceless organisation releases everything as is, that would be quite valuable (mostly for us fans), but if they say here is 'Dream Factory' executive produced by Wendy & Lisa (for example) that's worth a lot more in a marketing sense. That's a huge news cycle in mainstream culture media, and therefore it will sell more to a wider audience.

So, whoever does release this music will be looking at getting all sorts of input, from certain respected authority figures, to add commercial value.
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Reply #46 posted 05/02/16 4:21am

paulludvig

NME01 said:

kano said:


The ultimate question is, what is the correct level of respect? Yours, mine, someone who was close to P?

For me, the bottom line is that unless the person who made the piece of art oversees its release, it can never be allowed the right level of care. That doesn't just mean not allowing enough, it also means providing too much. Finding the right balance is a delicacy only its artist can truly understand.


Getting 'the right people' is also about adding value. If a faceless organisation releases everything as is, that would be quite valuable (mostly for us fans), but if they say here is 'Dream Factory' executive produced by Wendy & Lisa (for example) that's worth a lot more in a marketing sense. That's a huge news cycle in mainstream culture media, and therefore it will sell more to a wider audience.

So, whoever does release this music will be looking at getting all sorts of input, from certain respected authority figures, to add commercial value.


I think it would be more valuable if it is promoted as 'The music as Prince intended it' - sort of like a directors cut.
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #47 posted 05/02/16 4:43am

kano

Thizz said:



kano said:


Thizz said:

The premise of this thread seems to disregard everything Prince has indicated on the subject.



Furthermore - common sense would indidcate the following. If he didn't want them released he would have disposted of them. Not kept them safely preserved in a vault



Even though I've spoken respectively about other fans opinions and tried to argue my point without being aggressive or trying to be superior, that's the final conclusion you come to, that I wilfully want to disregard P's wishes? Whoever said the art of reading was dead.


Speaking of reading comprehension



Which part of this do you not understand




On his unreleased music:


I've never said this before, but I didn't always give the record companies the best song. There are songs in the vault that no one's ever heard. There are several vaults; it's not just one vault.



Are there full unreleased albums?
Yeah, I like time capsule stuff. I have a couple Revolution albums in the vault and two Time albums, one Vanity 6 album … and tons of stuff recorded in different periods. But so much gets recorded that you don't have time to compile everything. In the future you could put all the best stuff from one particular time period together and then you can release it. It'd just be like if we found a Sly and the Family Stone album and they saved their best stuff. If that's even possible!






I've already discussed that earlier in the thread.

And given your snobbish tone, I definitely won't be doing so again with you.
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Reply #48 posted 05/02/16 5:31am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

kano said:

Thizz said:

I've already discussed that earlier in the thread. And given your snobbish tone, I definitely won't be doing so again with you.



Oh please, get over yourself. We point out actual evidence of intent and you simply try to pick on people as a defence. Why did you open an account this week exactly?

.
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