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The Vault - Open or Closed? Almost immediately a lot of people began to mention the infamous 'vault' which I found a bit distasteful to be honest, now the guardian of the music has passed it was selfish to start thinking of what could be unearthed now it was no longer protected. The question is, should it be opened at all? Prince made it clear he was the one who decided what we got to hear. It's not as if we have been starved by him. Now that he has passed, do others, his sister included, have the right to release music that he didn't want the world to hear? That isn't saying his sister will do that but I'm just asking the question to include everyone. It's become increasingly popular to dig into secrets of those who have died and unfairly so. Being famous doesn't mean wishes shouldn't be respected. The fact we didn't know or hear everything about this amazing musician added to the mystery around and made his music more powerful because of that. Should we now we trying to unearth everything just because we can? Just a thought. What do you think? | |
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Prince said on The View that someone will release them. He never expressed otherwise. Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain. |
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bluegangsta said: Prince said on The View that someone will release them. He never expressed otherwise. Which is fair enough but just because he knew someone would, doesn't mean he would be happy with it. I think we can safely say he wouldn't be at all. Personally I want the vault to stay shut and for those secrets to stay as they would. Alan Leeds said a few years back that Prince would probably just burn everything - whether he was being flippant or not, I'm not sure. | |
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But he's dead? Objectively, it's no longer his problem what happens with it. Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain. |
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#freethemusic The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley | |
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bluegangsta said: But he's dead? Objectively, it's no longer his problem what happens with it. But shouldn't there be an understanding of what a dead persons wishes would be, even if they're not around anymore to explicitly express them? I think it's fair to say Prince made if abundantly clear what he thought about how his music was heard. Why should that change now if we do not know exactly if he had other plans for it? Another example is the Nina Simone documentary where they went through her personal diary. I mean come on, why do we need to get that close? Who has the right to release that stuff to the public domain unless they are told to? | |
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bluegangsta said: Prince said on The View that someone will release them. He never expressed otherwise. That's right. He never said anything about destroying. If that was his wish, why keep those recordings in a vault in the first place? The music should be released for a number of reasons: -It will help us fans and the general public to remember him as the great artist he is. (Can't bring myself to say "was") -If Tyka and the family don't do it, bootleggers will. -What's the point of keeping those recordings locked up for all eternity? That will only cost money. -If Paisley Park is to become a museum, then money needs to be made! | |
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Geraldo says "open the Vault." What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet? | |
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Prince has commented that he expected it to be released by someone. . | |
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Regardless, its contents have value and are an asset of the estate. The estate has a duty to maximize the value of that asset in the absense of instructions to destroy it. The only way to maximize the value of the vault is to sell the music to the fans. | |
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There should definitely be a breathing space - but inevitably bills are going to start to mount up. Prince could tour at short notice to generate income quite quickly. The estate can't rely on that anymore - so the logical means to create an income is to use it's most valuable asset now - legacy recordings. I don't envy trying to make this work long term. MJs estate have been fortunate to have hooked up with Cirque de Soleil, they've generated huge revenue. Don't know that Prince would have the same kind of pull - his personal ability was the main draw. But as far as should his songs see the light of day even though he didn't release them personally? Yes - a great artists creativity lives on much longer than they do. I think if he truly didn't want something to exist, it would have been destroyed. And who knows - maybe he destroyed or edited a lot of material  | |
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Prince always said the vault would be released. He put songs in the vault for that express purpose. Otherwise he would have just deleted them. The most exciting thing I'd like made public, is a catalog of what they found in there specifically. | |
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NorthC said: bluegangsta said: Prince said on The View that someone will release them. He never expressed otherwise. That's right. He never said anything about destroying. If that was his wish, why keep those recordings in a vault in the first place? The music should be released for a number of reasons: -It will help us fans and the general public to remember him as the great artist he is. (Can't bring myself to say "was") -If Tyka and the family don't do it, bootleggers will. -What's the point of keeping those recordings locked up for all eternity? That will only cost money. -If Paisley Park is to become a museum, then money needs to be made! Personally I think this is all more about what we want to hear, than want Prince himself would have wanted. Just because there is no comment made before he unexpectedly passed, doesn't mean the opposite course of action should be taken. If no instruction is left, then leave it alone! Prince spent half his career trying to gain control of his work and controlling how and where it was heard. He expected to live and long and healthy life until this tragedy. I'm sure he had his own plans but if they are not expressed, do we make our own assumptions or base them on his actions while alive? [Edited 4/30/16 5:11am] | |
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donnyenglish said: Regardless, its contents have value and are an asset of the estate. The estate has a duty to maximize the value of that asset in the absense of instructions to destroy it. The only way to maximize the value of the vault is to sell the music to the fans. That makes sense but that is very matter of fact. Music isn't an expensive ornament or piece of furniture, a persons living breathing soul went into making it and should be given different considerations I believe. | |
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Leave it alone? And do what? Nothing? Keep that vault closed forever? Who would benefit from that? Nobody! Then you.might as well destroy everything and nobody knows if that is what he wanted. Prince isn't here anymore and it's up to his heirs to make a decision. I say, release because of the reasons stated above, not only by me, but by others too. | |
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SquirrelMeat said:
Just because you expect something to happen does that mean that is what you want to happen? He knew it would happen because of the bootlegging that has happened across his entire career and we know he wasn't happy about that. Him saying it would happen doesn't mean he is then giving his blessing, it's just an acceptance that he can't control it anymore. If he could, I'm sure he would given how he has previously controlled it. I mean, I expect his music to be released too, but that's out of sad acceptance that money rules in the end, rather than me believing it is the right thing to do. [Edited 4/30/16 5:17am] | |
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kano said: donnyenglish said: Regardless, its contents have value and are an asset of the estate. The estate has a duty to maximize the value of that asset in the absense of instructions to destroy it. The only way to maximize the value of the vault is to sell the music to the fans. That makes sense but that is very matter of fact. Music isn't an expensive ornament or piece of furniture, a persons living breathing soul went into making it and should be given different considerations I believe. Absolutely. I think that is part of maximizing the value. I think that it must be done tastefully. It also should not be released in drips and dribbles because of the age of his fan base. There should be a 10 year plan for his releases and virtually everything should be released in that time frame. There should be 5 areas of emohasis. 1. Shelved albums that were intended for future release like Roadhouse Garden, the new album with mononeon, The Dawn, etc. 2. Live performances. 3. Collections of songs from the vault that had no album. 4. Videos and movies from the vault, especially The Second Coming. 5. Raw studion sessions. The shelved albums should be released at a rate of about two per year. The live stuff should be released quickly and in large chunks. The collections of random songs, studio sessions and the videos/movies should be released in three or four sets according to the time frame. | |
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Again and all over again: Prince NEVER EVER said that he dont´t want the vault to open after his death.
Quite the opposite, there are several hints in recent interviews that he is okay with it when the vault opens some day. And there is no will (atleast for now) that tells otherwise.
In my opinion, burning all the stuff or not releasing it (with respect and honor ofc) would be ignorant towards big parts of his lifework.
Just my 2 cents. | |
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NorthC said: Leave it alone? And do what? Nothing? Keep that vault closed forever? Who would benefit from that? Nobody! Then you.might as well destroy everything and nobody knows if that is what he wanted. Prince isn't here anymore and it's up to his heirs to make a decision. I say, release because of the reasons stated above, not only by me, but by others too.
But again, why does anyone have to benefit from it? Don't we have forty years worth of released material to benefit from? Remember, a lot of these recordings were also made with other artists too, don't they also have a say in what is released? And if no one knows for sure whether Prince would have wanted this material released - not expected it, that is a different thing - then who has the right to decide either way? I'm not trying to confrontational about this but I just really believe that when someone passes on, we have to think extremely carefully about how we treat the things they leave behind. It's become increasingly common to delve into the most personal effects of celebrities that have left us and it feels unfair and intrusive in many cases. [Edited 4/30/16 5:35am] | |
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Philly76 said:
Again and all over again: Prince NEVER EVER said that he dont´t want the vault to open after his death.
Quite the opposite, there are several hints in recent interviews that he is okay with it when the vault opens some day. And there is no will (atleast for now) that tells otherwise.
In my opinion, burning all the stuff or not releasing it (with respect and honor ofc) would be ignorant towards big parts of his lifework.
Just my 2 cents. I'm not wanting to dismiss your point of view, I'm not saying mine is hundred percent correct either but I think it bears thinking about. It just didn't sit well with me that within a day or two of his passing there was a swell (online) of people talking about the vault, salivating because it's guardian is no longer here to control it. [Edited 4/30/16 5:30am] | |
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donnyenglish said: kano said: That makes sense but that is very matter of fact. Music isn't an expensive ornament or piece of furniture, a persons living breathing soul went into making it and should be given different considerations I believe. Absolutely. I think that is part of maximizing the value. I think that it must be done tastefully. It also should not be released in drips and dribbles because of the age of his fan base. There should be a 10 year plan for his releases and virtually everything should be released in that time frame. There should be 5 areas of emohasis. 1. Shelved albums that were intended for future release like Roadhouse Garden, the new album with mononeon, The Dawn, etc. 2. Live performances. 3. Collections of songs from the vault that had no album. 4. Videos and movies from the vault, especially The Second Coming. 5. Raw studion sessions. The shelved albums should be released at a rate of about two per year. The live stuff should be released quickly and in large chunks. The collections of random songs, studio sessions and the videos/movies should be released in three or four sets according to the time frame. There is also the key part of who decides what deserves to be released and who mixes it down. This is another big part of the problem. We know Prince had such tight quality control and while Wendy and Lisa, or Sheila E were close friends and work colleagues, the bottom line is, they are not Prince. I dunno, it just doesn't make sense to me that someone who held such tight control over what people heard, would then allow almost anything he recorded to be released to the public, without him overseeing it. Maybe that was the last project he had planned when he was in his 60/70's, who knows. | |
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Prince spent half his career trying to gain control of his work and controlling how and where it was heard.
To be fair, this fight was about When Will We B Paid; not trying to suppess music from being heard. The genesis of all this was the WB years, when Prince wanted to release more material than WB would allow. SOTT would have never been only 2 albums if it were up to Prince. Come and the Gold Experience would have been released years earlier, in different configurations, if it were up to Prince. The only time that Prince kept a record from being released (as opposed to WB being the ones to suppress it) was the Black Album, but Prince ultimately relented, so that's irrelevant now. Prince didn't spend all these years fighting for control of his masters just to keep everything locked away forever - he just wanted the Artist to be paid 100% for what the Artist created. No Candy 4 Me | |
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I think you've got it wrong on this one. Prince's comments suggested he would have no problem with the Vault material released. I find it utterly bizarre that someone who fought so hard for their legacy left no instructions as to how to go about it though. Can't get my head around that. |
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Prince left them there to be released after his death. | |
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leecaldon said:
I think you've got it wrong on this one. Prince's comments suggested he would have no problem with the Vault material released. I find it utterly bizarre that someone who fought so hard for their legacy left no instructions as to how to go about it though. Can't get my head around that. I think the bottom line is he expected to be around much longer to allow him time to put those instructions down. Tragically he was robbed of the time he expected to have to do that. | |
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The following interview makes pretty clear that Prince wanted Vault material released:
"Yeah, I like time capsule stuff. I have a couple Revolution albums in the vault and two Time albums, one Vanity 6 album … and tons of stuff recorded in different periods. But so much gets recorded that you don't have time to compile everything. In the future you could put all the best stuff from one particular time period together and then you can release it. It'd just be like if we found a Sly and the Family Stone album and they saved their best stuff. If that's even possible!"
Keep in mind that Prince had a huge ego. Most of us want this stuff released partly because, as Prince fans, we know it will prove a point to the world about his genius. Prince would support us in that fight! If he didn't want something kept (e.g., Wally), that material is surely destroyed now. Whatever is in the Vault is something that he'd approve of being memorialized for historical purposes.
Here are some of the reasons I believe that Prince never specified what to do with the Vault material in his life, despite wanting it to be released: 1) He always wanted to keep the focus on his current project. That was a characteristic his whole career. He once said "my only competition is, well, me in the past". If he is working on releasing a new album, the last thing he wanted was for a bunch of critics to compare that album to some new Vault release so that they could say "see, he was so much better in the 80s - this Vault material kills AOA, etc. 2) His religious beliefs made him uncomfortable with what he'd done before. Not uncomfortable to the point that he wanted material destroyed, but enough so that he didn't want to be seen as promoting/blessing it. At this point, we don't even know if the Vault contains older material that might fit this category, but if it did, I think it's safe to say he'd rather have someone other than him being seen as having ordered/directed/caused its release. He once said that they songs are his "children," so while there may be some children that he might dissapprove of, he still loved them all in some unconditional way. 3) To the extent it turns out he didn't have a will, I think this could show a subconscious desire to allow everything to be released, as that would be the practical effect, given the estate would be duty bound to maximize value. No Candy 4 Me | |
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SquirrelMeat said:
The Prince of late 80's/90's is also no doubt a different man to who was at 57 too. Certainly in how he views the music, the timing of its release and how it sounds too. I would have no doubt that if had decided to release the full version of SoTT, then he would've mixed it from scratch later in life. He'd have different ears, especially so many years removed from it. There are just so many variables to determine when it comes to releasing something that is so personal after that person is no longer around, I'm not sure it can be done correctly. And if it can't be done at the bare minimum of what the person would've wanted, then I think it should be left alone. [Edited 4/30/16 5:58am] | |
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To use the most extreme example, let's say there's an original/long version of Extra Loveable in the Vault. That's an amazing song, that will surely get released, as it's the cream of the crop.
If Prince were giving detailed instructions of what to do, how would he be able to cause that song to be released given the rape language at the end? There's no way he could do so.
If he simply leaves it there with no instructions what to do, the practical effect is the song gets released, but he's never blamed for authorizing it. History will say it was pulled out of his private Vault and released without his specific authorization. That's really the best outcome for him if he wanted his music released but he was in a different moral place today than he was in the mid-80s. No Candy 4 Me | |
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