7 days have passed, all I can think of to do is think of as many ways to keep Prince's music alive as possible. Since last week, there have already been several thousand people who have bought a Prince album for the first time in many years, maybe some buying their first Prince album ever. A lot of people are buying the VBOP or Purple Rain but what path would you lead someone who genuinely wanted to appreciate the artist? Would you start them at the beginning, For You and onward, would you start them in the middle, 1999, PR? Would you tell them to listen to every CD from 1979 to 1996 or 1979 to 1991? When I first started becoming a fan, it was 1985...I liked some of the songs on PR but in 1985 I discovered 1999 and then immediately went back catalogue. Obvious answer here is to tell them to listen to all 39 CDs but would you have suggested path of CDs that would recruit them to the fold. Purple Army Forever!

[Edited 4/28/16 11:49am]

GottaLetitgo said:

7 days have passed, all I can think of to do is think of as many ways to keep Prince's music alive as possible. Since last week, there have already been several thousand people who have bought a Prince album for the first time in many years, maybe some buying their first Prince album ever. A lot of people are buying the VBOP or Purple Rain but what path would you lead someone who genuinely wanted to appreciate the artist? Would you start them at the beginning, For You and onward, would you start them in the middle, 1999, PR? Would you tell them to listen to every CD from 1979 to 1996 or 1979 to 1991? When I first started becoming a fan, it was 1985...I liked some of the songs on PR but in 1985 I discovered 1999 and then immediately went back catalogue. Obvious answer here is to tell them to listen to all 39 CDs but would you have suggested path of CDs that would recruit them to the fold. Purple Army Forever!

I would start from the beginning with the first album and then work my way up. Then start to read books. I became a family member in 1983-84. I first heard 1999, then Purple Rain, then I had to go back to the start and listen to those.

you can start by wandering why it took so long for you to start paying real interest in him ?

if you have never seen him live when he was still kickin' ass then you would never experience what we all have experienced.

sure, the cd's are extremely good (and there are more than 39 by the way if you count New Power Soul and the live cd's), but you start appreciate these more when you have seen him live. the waiting for a new album was always something to look forward to. that experience you will never have now.

I'm sorry, but you better paid attention to him when he was still alive.

Rock and roll is not alive anymore. but it sure lived in Minneapolis.

tomds said:

you can start by wandering why it took so long for you to start paying real interest in him ?

if you have never seen him live when he was still kickin' ass then you would never experience what we all have experienced.

sure, the cd's are extremely good (and there are more than 39 by the way if you count New Power Soul and the live cd's), but you start appreciate these more when you have seen him live. the waiting for a new album was always something to look forward to. that experience you will never have now.

I'm sorry, but you better paid attention to him when he was still alive.

Rock and roll is not alive anymore. but it sure lived in Minneapolis.

Nothing we can do about that, those who didn't see Prince live missed out on an experience that cannot be duplicated. But it is up to us, the fans who have been through it all, to guide the new "new breed" to all the jewels that we have already experienced.

I changed the Thread title because I myself am not a Newbie. I just know that we, as the long time fans (I know some new to the Org to but most of us are long time fans) have a responsibility to help these poor souls who have had their head in the ground during one of the most interesting trajectories of any music artist in history. I am 44, people that are 44 that never saw Prince live or checked out after Purple Rain or Sign O the Times or appreciated from afar (like my older brother who admitted that he always thought Prince was cool but never bought anything) have been deprived. But we cannot hold it against them. The good that we can do now is help these people, not judge them for having terrible musical taste.

It makes me kind of giggle to think there will be newbies out there trying to skip tracks on Lovesexy before realizing that they can't. And the cover won't even shock anybody this day and age but they will never no the joy of having to buy it from the record store behind the counter like it was a porno tape.

We need purple babies.

tomds said:

you can start by wandering why it took so long for you to start paying real interest in him ?

if you have never seen him live when he was still kickin' ass then you would never experience what we all have experienced.

sure, the cd's are extremely good (and there are more than 39 by the way if you count New Power Soul and the live cd's), but you start appreciate these more when you have seen him live. the waiting for a new album was always something to look forward to. that experience you will never have now.

I'm sorry, but you better paid attention to him when he was still alive.

Rock and roll is not alive anymore. but it sure lived in Minneapolis.

The CDs are shit. Don't start me on MP3s.

It's a known fact that Warner did a terrible job transfering the analog masters. No dynamics, all details lost, and God knows how detailed Skipper's arrangements and production can be.

My advice to any newbie: get your hand on the ripped vinyls in FLAC format. They are out there.
"Homemade Deluxe" is one option, "One Year In The Life" another.

Make an A/B test on "Sign Of The Times". The difference screams.

bonatoc said:

tomds said:

you can start by wandering why it took so long for you to start paying real interest in him ?

if you have never seen him live when he was still kickin' ass then you would never experience what we all have experienced.

sure, the cd's are extremely good (and there are more than 39 by the way if you count New Power Soul and the live cd's), but you start appreciate these more when you have seen him live. the waiting for a new album was always something to look forward to. that experience you will never have now.

I'm sorry, but you better paid attention to him when he was still alive.

Rock and roll is not alive anymore. but it sure lived in Minneapolis.

The CDs are shit. Don't start me on MP3s.

It's a known fact that Warner did a terrible job transfering the analog masters. No dynamics, all details lost, and God knows how detailed Skipper's arrangements and production can be.

My advice to any newbie: get your hand on the ripped vinyls in FLAC format. They are out there.
"Homemade Deluxe" is one option, "One Year In The Life" another.

Make an A/B test on "Sign Of The Times". The difference screams.

And get the vinyl LPs too

Everyone's got to follow their own path, i think. I know from the org, the albums I hate most still have passionate fans. I went: 1. Prince, 2. Associated Acts, 3. Bootlegs.

.

That said, The Dawn 4.1 > Come, Gold Experience, 1800 New Funk, and everything 93-95.

Ooh yeah, sorry.
Of course buy'em if you find them.

The physical object is, of course, much better. But not everyone has a (decent) turntable.
German pressings from WEA are great and reknown, amongst the best an audiophile can get.

As for the musical side, I would suggest to start from "Prince" through "1999", before diving into the parallel world of 85-87 ("Crystal Ball", "Dream Factory", the B-sides, Jill Jones, Madhouse, The Family, "Live in Detroit", SOTT the movie...).

Only then will you be ready for the spiritual adventure that is "The Black Album" / "Lovesexy", young Padawan.

The Blue Angel vs. Spooky Electric.
You'll get it when you get there.

Personally, I'd tell a newbie who's seriously interested in Prince to invest in the Hits 1&2/B-Sides box set.

GottaLetitgo said:

7 days have passed, all I can think of to do is think of as many ways to keep Prince's music alive as possible. Since last week, there have already been several thousand people who have bought a Prince album for the first time in many years, maybe some buying their first Prince album ever. A lot of people are buying the VBOP or Purple Rain but what path would you lead someone who genuinely wanted to appreciate the artist? Would you start them at the beginning, For You and onward, would you start them in the middle, 1999, PR? Would you tell them to listen to every CD from 1979 to 1996 or 1979 to 1991? When I first started becoming a fan, it was 1985...I liked some of the songs on PR but in 1985 I discovered 1999 and then immediately went back catalogue. Obvious answer here is to tell them to listen to all 39 CDs but would you have suggested path of CDs that would recruit them to the fold. Purple Army Forever!

[Edited 4/28/16 11:49am]

seand67 said:

bonatoc said:

tomds said:

you can start by wandering why it took so long for you to start paying real interest in him ?

if you have never seen him live when he was still kickin' ass then you would never experience what we all have experienced.

sure, the cd's are extremely good (and there are more than 39 by the way if you count New Power Soul and the live cd's), but you start appreciate these more when you have seen him live. the waiting for a new album was always something to look forward to. that experience you will never have now.

I'm sorry, but you better paid attention to him when he was still alive.

Rock and roll is not alive anymore. but it sure lived in Minneapolis.

The CDs are shit. Don't start me on MP3s.

It's a known fact that Warner did a terrible job transfering the analog masters. No dynamics, all details lost, and God knows how detailed Skipper's arrangements and production can be.

My advice to any newbie: get your hand on the ripped vinyls in FLAC format. They are out there.
"Homemade Deluxe" is one option, "One Year In The Life" another.

Make an A/B test on "Sign Of The Times". The difference screams.

I did exactly this a few months ago with Sign Of The Times.

The FLAC Vynal version was so much better than the CD version. Prior to that, I preferred at least 10 other albums over SOTT.

[Edited 4/28/16 18:58pm]

How can one artist make 1999, Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, Sign O The Times, and Lovesexy in six years time (not to mention the Black Album somewhere hidden in the mix). How did our heads not explode from 1982-1988? I love Controversy, I love Dirty Mind but what artist had this kind of creative winning streak that Prince did with these albums back to back to back? It's almost impossible to fathom. Sales went from 3 million to 12 million to 5 million to 2 million to 1.5 million to 500,000 (approximate). People that are in their 40s and 50s that were then in their 20s made at least one single from every one of these albums Top 10 but their interest in the albums waned. Could an unitiated newbie handle listening to these back to back like we got them in the 80s? Would they yield they power they did to most of us?

Well when I became a newbie I started with the Purple Rain album of course. Then I started listening to the other hit songs outside of Purple Rain, like: LRC, 1999, Kiss, Raspberry Beret, D&P, Gett Off, I Wanna Be Your Lover. Then I just started to listen to what everybody else would talk about here or if the title of a song sounded interesting then I'd give it a try

So yeah, I'd start off a newbie by giving them the "hits" first. After they get tired of those then I'd suggest listening to the rest of the 80's albums.

violectrica said:

Ok I'm still in the anger stage so I'm still mad at them for coming late to the game. How dare you prance in here and Jack up all the prices of the things I (a listener since the crib) haven't gotten a hold of yet!?? Probate court could cause no reissue for a long time and I still have to buy the gold experience (again, mom stole mine). Dammit. I'm not ready to give these people advice. Buy the hits and go away. Maybe when I'm in acceptance or I'll feel better. I'm just bitter right now. It hurts so bad. Whereas newbies won't even feel any pain. They'll celebrate they found something cool and retro, while I'm crying. Sour grapes.

yeah this too

GottaLetitgo said:

How can one artist make 1999, Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, Sign O The Times, and Lovesexy in six years time (not to mention the Black Album somewhere hidden in the mix). How did our heads not explode from 1982-1988? I love Controversy, I love Dirty Mind but what artist had this kind of creative winning streak that Prince did with these albums back to back to back? It's almost impossible to fathom. Sales went from 3 million to 12 million to 5 million to 2 million to 1.5 million to 500,000 (approximate). People that are in their 40s and 50s that were then in their 20s made at least one single from every one of these albums Top 10 but their interest in the albums waned. Could an unitiated newbie handle listening to these back to back like we got them in the 80s? Would they yield they power they did to most of us?

Hard to tell. We're talking about pre-Loudness Wars times.
Ears have been deformed by it, and all the 128k/256K rotten audio quality we got accustomed to.

Compression has taken over so much that I actually find difficult to listen to Parade or SOTT on the spot. I have to take a whole week with the album so I can appreciate it for what it is.

First, the brain tricks you into thinking the sound is tiny (more reason to get the vinyl or the next best thing). Second, so many production tricks have been absorbed by a whole generation of producers aware of Prince's experiments, that Prince's sounds and arrangements may not sound as revolutionary as when we first heard them.

Lastly, we had to wait. And so it meant months of wandering to the Wrecka Stow to see if any new 12'' inch or side project had come out. Meanwhile, the pop world kept on producing mediocre, overproduced and silly singles.

But will the young ones take the time to endure the whole 1985 Billboard (Phil Collins, Al Corley, this kind of sonic nightmare) just to realize how much Prince was apart and exceptional? Will they watch, say, a Dire Straits concert (yawn) just to compare it with what Prince was capable on stage?

Prince deserved to belong to the sixties. Instead, he blossomed in the ego and money decade (and the following got worse). The young generation has no idea of how uptight the Reagan years were (Dallas, Dynasty, this kind of visual nightmare).

No Madonna, no Lady Gaga, no Britney Spears, no "Bad" or "Dangerous" without "Dirty Mind".
Prince was the true dangerous one. Because he believed that punk and sexuality could pour into mainstream pop. It would not have be the same if Prince had chosen to stay in some CBGB / Apollo mode. To stay underground.

No one would dare to wear such outfits. Did Prince knew it was an all or nothing? It's the risk taking that paid off. Because in the end, his talent won over the scenery. And so the early years became stuff of legend, as if Skipper had planned it all.

But, like recording "Sometimes" on an april 21st, it was just another alignment of the stars.

You can't appreciate Prince's music to the fullest without the persona and the history. But the decade that saw him growing was not the sixties, a period the young generation feels more inclined to discover, because of the freedom that paved the way for so many interesting artists.

The eighties, outside Prince, The Smiths, Kate Bush and more connoisseur stuff, is a big fat garbage dump. Good luck exploring.

[Edited 4/28/16 21:41pm]

bonatoc said:

tomds said:

you can start by wandering why it took so long for you to start paying real interest in him ?

if you have never seen him live when he was still kickin' ass then you would never experience what we all have experienced.

sure, the cd's are extremely good (and there are more than 39 by the way if you count New Power Soul and the live cd's), but you start appreciate these more when you have seen him live. the waiting for a new album was always something to look forward to. that experience you will never have now.

I'm sorry, but you better paid attention to him when he was still alive.

Rock and roll is not alive anymore. but it sure lived in Minneapolis.

The CDs are shit. Don't start me on MP3s.

It's a known fact that Warner did a terrible job transfering the analog masters. No dynamics, all details lost, and God knows how detailed Skipper's arrangements and production can be.

My advice to any newbie: get your hand on the ripped vinyls in FLAC format. They are out there.
"Homemade Deluxe" is one option, "One Year In The Life" another.

Make an A/B test on "Sign Of The Times". The difference screams.

How big is the difference between the vinyls and CDs? I didn't realise that something like transfering it to CD could take away dynamics and stuff that you're actually supposed to be hearing. That stuff is really important to me, but as I've never heard the vinyls, I'm completely unaware of these differences.

I have about 20 of his CDs, and I can say that while all of them could use some work, SOTT and The Black Album are of particularly poor quality. And those are some of my favorite records. If the vinyls are of significantly greater quality I will straight up by a record player and the vinyls LOL

So basically, I gotta know

masaba said:

bonatoc said:

The CDs are shit. Don't start me on MP3s.

It's a known fact that Warner did a terrible job transfering the analog masters. No dynamics, all details lost, and God knows how detailed Skipper's arrangements and production can be.

My advice to any newbie: get your hand on the ripped vinyls in FLAC format. They are out there.
"Homemade Deluxe" is one option, "One Year In The Life" another.

Make an A/B test on "Sign Of The Times". The difference screams.

How big is the difference between the vinyls and CDs? I didn't realise that something like transfering it to CD could take away dynamics and stuff that you're actually supposed to be hearing. That stuff is really important to me, but as I've never heard the vinyls, I'm completely unaware of these differences.

I have about 20 of his CDs, and I can say that while all of them could use some work, SOTT and The Black Album are of particularly poor quality. And those are some of my favorite records. If the vinyls are of significantly greater quality I will straight up by a record player and the vinyls LOL

So basically, I gotta know

I grew up with vinyls, and at the time the mastering was taken care of by Bernie Grundman, someone highly respected in the field.

Since the audio chain was AAA (analog recording - analog mastering - analog support), you would get an end result that was faithful to the sound intended by Prince, even if mastering does eventually alter (enhance, when it's properly done) it.

CD was sold to the masses on the basis that it was supposed to increase the dynamic range, durability, plus you had that tech novelty feel (wow! Laser! Just like in Star Wars!).

But going from analog to digital implies turning an analog audio curve to a representation of that audio curve. Digital slices the curve in steps so small it tricks the brain, just like 25 static images per second do for movies.




That's not a problem, if you really know what you're doing. Trouble is, when time came for Warner to transfer Prince's catalog to digital, they presumably handed the job over to some deaf intern.
It's not that digital automatically butchers the original audio signal, even if in fact it does: with a full analog audio chain, you can add a soft compression, you can make the signal going into the red zone of loudness, it would still be pleasant to the ear.

But in digital, going into the red zone is a big no-no: you get a very audible and nasty "click". So in digital, there's a ceiling that you simply cannot cross. As you can see in the rightmost image, dynamics in digital cannot tolerate even the shortest spike: you have to flatten it, and so dynamics (more specifically "transients") get lost if you don't know what you're doing.
Whereas in the analog world, a piece like "Erotic City" can benefit of pushing the volume in the danger zone, making the kick drum punchier and the hi-hats brighter.

Get your hands on some FLAC's vinyls and do the A/B test yourself, on any pre-D&P record. It's like 2D vs. 3D, expect "3D" is not, in this case, a commercial gimmick. Your ear will catch details you've never heard before, and the overall sound will feel much more "organic".

Of course, keep in mind that small, miniaturized transistors only emulate what a proper audio chain does. It's physical: a high quality amplifier weighs a ton, because it needs physical components through which the audio signal can pass unaltered. Nowadays, every little piece of electronica has cheap enhancers made to mask the shitty quality of its components. If you add to the equation MP3, which by definition implies loss of details such as reverb tails and transients, well... But that's the way it went.

Last thing to keep in mind: with age, you begin to lose your audition. The only way to compensate for this is to adjust, whenever possible, your audio signal with an Equalizer.

If you want to find out what curve your graphic EQ needs (or how much audition you've lost), follow this link and the instructions in it :

http://newt.phys.unsw.edu...aring.html

Let us know if you see the dawn.

[Edited 4/29/16 3:43am]

With all this hype around vinyl again and kids getting hold of turntables again I'd say buy vinyl. They sound much better, but perhaps I'm just being old school. Got most of Prince's albums on vinyl and only started buying CDs from Come onwards.
I was fortunate enough to see him live many times, in London, Lisbon and New York City, so I feel kinds blessed nowadays.

[Edited 4/29/16 3:58am]

[Edited 4/29/16 3:59am]

[Edited 4/29/16 4:00am]