beachy said:

So where did his people go after they dropped him off? Obviously they had to have been able to let themselves into PP, unless someone was already there.
[Edited 5/7/16 9:42am]

lwr001 said:

RogerRoger said:

I wouldn't find it hard to believe if Prince said (ordered) to them: "leave me. I'm fine".

As I understand, he often had the house emptied for people at night time

[Edited 5/6/16 4:13am]

if a doctor considered him to be in danger than can court order you for amandaorty 48 to 72 hour hold

From the books I've read about Prince, he has had several close calls over the years.

They always managed to save him in time.

I would expect that Prince took charge of his own medication and his own life. He made the decision that he needed certain drugs in order to function and took responsibility for that.

He was the boss at PP. No one really had an option, if they wanted to work for Prince, to directly go against his wishes. He is well known for being a control freak.

Personally, I think we should stop with all the 2nd guessing. Drugs usually go with the territory of being a rock star. I respect Prince that he limited his drugs to those he needed to function and in all other ways led an exemplary health conscious lifestyle. Its tragic what happened, but I feel it was his time to go. His artistry had come full circle and he was now playing alone, with just a piano, wearing an afro as if he was a teenager again. His work was done.

RiotPaisley said:

beachy said:

The Wellness Center is just north of San Francisco. If the doctor's son left from San Francisco it could have been a redeye. Delta has a nonstop flight that leaves SanFrancisco at 12:30 am and arrives at Minneapolis at 6:04 in the morning. If that was the flight he took he might have been taken to the hotel first to freshen up and wait for Prince to wake up.

So where did his people go after they dropped him off? Obviously they had to have been able to let themselves into PP, unless someone was already there. [Edited 5/7/16 9:42am]

I believe Prince normally showed up for work at PP at 10am ie not an early riser. I believe the appointment was made for 9:30am. Who knows where the employees went in the meantime but I assume some one gave the doctor's son a lift to PP for a 9:30 appointment and then no one answered. There was probably an assumption that the meds he had gotten from Walgreens would have given him a good night's sleep.

[Edited 5/7/16 9:48am]

norsknurse said:

bilbolives said:

http://www.startribune.com/prince-was-under-Minnesota-doctors-care-for-weeks-over-withdrawal-symptoms/378419741/

On May 7 at 12:55 a.m., The Minneapolis Star Tribune is reporting that Prince was seeing a physician for opioid withdrawal.

This so confusing. So a local MD saw him Weds nite at PP and said he was stable, so what was the Walgreens visit all about? None of this makes sense.

I'm assuming the problem was that he couldn't sleep. If you've never been up for 3 days or more in a row, you can't possibly imagine how torturous that is. Prince's brother in law said he hadn't slept since the Moline incident. My hunch is that he got some sleeping pills, and took too many. Perhaps out of desperation. Hey, I've been there. I sympathize with Prince.

[Edited 5/7/16 9:56am]

beachy said:

lwr001 said:

if a doctor considered him to be in danger than can court order you for amandaorty 48 to 72 hour hold

From the books I've read about Prince, he has had several close calls over the years.

They always managed to save him in time.

I would expect that Prince took charge of his own medication and his own life. He made the decision that he needed certain drugs in order to function and took responsibility for that.

He was the boss at PP. No one really had an option, if they wanted to work for Prince, to directly go against his wishes. He is well known for being a control freak.

Personally, I think we should stop with all the 2nd guessing. Drugs usually go with the territory of being a rock star. I respect Prince that he limited his drugs to those he needed to function and in all other ways led an exemplary health conscious lifestyle. Its tragic what happened, but I feel it was his time to go. His artistry had come full circle and he was now playing alone, with just a piano, wearing an afro as if he was a teenager again. His work was done.

Several?

paulludvig said:

beachy said:

From the books I've read about Prince, he has had several close calls over the years.

They always managed to save him in time.

I would expect that Prince took charge of his own medication and his own life. He made the decision that he needed certain drugs in order to function and took responsibility for that.

He was the boss at PP. No one really had an option, if they wanted to work for Prince, to directly go against his wishes. He is well known for being a control freak.

Personally, I think we should stop with all the 2nd guessing. Drugs usually go with the territory of being a rock star. I respect Prince that he limited his drugs to those he needed to function and in all other ways led an exemplary health conscious lifestyle. Its tragic what happened, but I feel it was his time to go. His artistry had come full circle and he was now playing alone, with just a piano, wearing an afro as if he was a teenager again. His work was done.

Several?

I believe so. Maybe I should go back through the books and list them all, just to make sure. If I do that I will post what I find. But we already know about one for sure which was less than a week before his death. There was one I remember quite well from right after he married Mayte in spring 1996.

[Edited 5/7/16 10:06am]

beachy said:

paulludvig said:

Several?

I believe so. Maybe I should go back through the books and list them all, just to make sure. If I do that I will post what I find. But we already know about one for sure which was less than a week before his death. There was one I remember quite well from right after he married Mayte in spring 1996.

[Edited 5/7/16 10:06am]

Those two are the only ones I've heard about. And the 96 incident doesn't seem that serious.

beachy said:

paulludvig said:

Several?

I believe so. Maybe I should go back through the books and list them all, just to make sure. If I do that I will post what I find. But we already know about one for sure which was less than a week before his death. There was one I remember quite well from right after he married Mayte in spring 1996.

[Edited 5/7/16 10:06am]

The one from 1996 was on 4/21 - exactly 20 years before his death.

A couple days ago I noted here a comment that somone had left under one of the Strib articles:

sonshine said:

This is the worst possible outcome. I don't want to know anymore. I've learned enough already. The fact that the guy sent urgently across the country in the middle of the night is the one who has to alert prince's people to a problem is incomprehensible to me. They were concerned enough to summon these professionals like it was an emergency they should have been there awaiting his arrival. Instead they went home??!!

People keep saying this but it's 20/20 hindsight really, and also ignores two facts:

1. Prince always did exactly what Prince wanted to do. That's essentially his defining characteristic. If he wanted to be alone, he was going to be alone. He surrounded himself with yes men and subordinates who catered to his whims and his eccentricity.

2. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can stop an addict from using, and blaming the people surrounding him for wha happened is absolving Prince of personal responsibility for his own actions. When i was deep into my coke habit, my dealer actually started to worry about me and tried to cut me off a few times but if I wanted to use, I would just go score from somewhere else.

People who are addicted have to want to seak treatment because they want to, otherwise it won't work.

beachy said:

I get what you are saying, I just don't think this is the way he should have gone out. It's said he had other plans. He could have sought treatment for the pain, quit taking the pain pills which probably allowed him to keep going and consequently doing further dammage, causing even more pain. He could have had an amazing end of life career doing sit down piano tours, accoustic sets, residencies at places around the world where he could go back and tell stories, releasing vault material etc.

Problem is, artists like Prince make more money for other people when they are dead especially when they go out suddenly and "too soon".

I'm just looking for answers and can't let it go yet until I know there wasn't stuff being done illegally on the part of pain mgmt doctors or whomever. This issue has hit me so close to home on every aspect of it. From dealing with my own addiction where I know how careful I have to be when I have flare ups and need treatment to watching loved ones abuse and die. It's such a problem in this country and its really scary to think that we consume 80% of the worlds opioid supply. Why is that? What is the real issue behind that? Digging into what happened with Prince might give a clearer picture or add more insight to the river of addiction. His death does not need to be in vain and maybe things will change because of it. It really does need to be discussed for what it really was about without trying to cover anything up because we don't want to face reality.

His legacy can't be tarnished by this because we know he wasn't just trying to get high. He, like many Americans who struggle with this are was just trying to survive. People have to prop themselves up by any means necessary to keep food on the table. We need to push for better education of / from doctors - for years doctors didn't warn people of how addictive opioids are. People took them like candy because hey a doctor said it was ok. Our nativity and trust in the medical/ pharmaceutical companies isn't hard to understand. Turn on the tv and every other commercial is take a pill to fix this or that. Opioids making you constipated? Don't be concerned about what it's doing to you, take this pill to help you void. opiods got you addicted? Here, come to this methadone clinic for 100 bucks a pop. Won't I get addicted? No, no it's ok! It's a prescription. Check out the documentary Methadonia (it was on Netflix) and tell me if you think that's a good idea.

Like I said in previous posts- when MJ died a story came out either right before or soon after that that Prince needed hip replacement but wasn't because of religious beliefs and was taking pills to "control" the pain instead. I said damn it Prince, if MJ isn't a warning to you - I don't know what is.

I need to talk about this here because when you talk to nonPrince lovers, they just want to chalk him up as another rockstar junkie. It's safe here because we know that wasn't exactly the case.

Anyway, again I am sorry if people are bothered by the discussion of this. Stay out of the thread if you want to put it to rest.it needs to be talked about. It could save lives.

Eileen said:

A couple days ago I noted here a comment that somone had left under one of the Strib articles:

"geishagirl7 May. 5, 16
4:06 PM@Damiane Dig deeper, and you'll learn that Prince has been flirting with overdoses for a long time, not just the past 2 weeks."

Comment is probably made by Sinead O'Connor

beachy said:

Eileen said:

dustoff said:

The attorney said Prince reps picked him up at the airport and brought him to hotel near PP, then picked him up about 9:30 and took him to PP. Didn't say how long the son was at the hotel.

The Wellness Center is just north of San Francisco. If the doctor's son left from San Francisco it could have been a redeye. Delta has a nonstop flight that leaves SanFrancisco at 12:30 am and arrives at Minneapolis at 6:04 in the morning. If that was the flight he took he might have been taken to the hotel first to freshen up and wait for Prince to wake up.

This makes no sense. It takes 3.5 hours to fly from SF to Minneapolis.

herb4 said:

Truth. However- coke and prescription drugs are different. If you OD'd on coke and they found the dealer he would go to jail. Same should apply if you are being overprescribed. The medical industry needs to be held accountable for what they are dishing out. This will hopefully tighten controls and make sure that ALL pharmacies are networked to flag if someone is in danger. It's already hard for people with legit pain who aren't celebrity. Why is it easier for celebrity to get what they want when they want it? Money and that shouldn't be the case. We need to know how he was able to skirt the rules and hold the people who participated accountable. If he turned to illegal means of obtaining, well then he should go to jail just like anyone else who gets caught forging a script. Which is easy to consider, it was suicide because he knew the dangers and kept pushing? Or wreck less homicide because other knew the dangers and kept pushing? My opino , both sides should be held accountable.

And another point, the criminality and punishment needs to be addressed as well. Why are addicts in jail for being addicts? That's not cool. Laws need to change here to treat drug crimes like I got caught with all these drugs cuz I'm strung out and instead of getting mental health help, I'm going to prison. Wrong answer.

Anyway I could go on and on about this... But I'll stop.

I'm just so sad right now. This is truly a reality I wish was just a nightmare I'd wake up from real soon.

herb4 said:

Minneapolis is 2 hours ahead of San Fran.

RiotPaisley said:

beachy said:

His work was done.

It's such a problem in this country and its really scary to think that we consume 80% of the worlds opioid supply. Why is that? What is the real issue behind that?

A broken healthcare system driven by profit, doctors' general lack of undersanding of the back and spine, the pressure and anxiety of our rat race society that leads people to seek immediate gratification and relief through self medication, the ridiculous "war on drugs" and zero tolerance approach, big pharma, our "quick fix" mentality as a nation and the idea that if a doctor precribes it to you, it's not really "drugs" and there's no stigma.

Same with anti-depressants. Even doctors really don't understand it. People take pills for everything; to lose weight, put on muscle mass, cure a hangover, ease anxiety and stress, etc. Anti-depressants cause as many problems as pain meds. Marijuana is a very effective pain medication for cancer patients but it's illegal so they get morphine and oxy.

RiotPaisley said:

herb4 said:

People keep saying this but it's 20/20 hindsight really, and also ignores two facts:

1. Prince always did exactly what Prince wanted to do. That's essentially his defining characteristic. If he wanted to be alone, he was going to be alone. He surrounded himself with yes men and subordinates who catered to his whims and his eccentricity.

2. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can stop an addict from using, and blaming the people surrounding him for wha happened is absolving Prince of personal responsibility for his own actions. When i was deep into my coke habit, my dealer actually started to worry about me and tried to cut me off a few times but if I wanted to use, I would just go score from somewhere else.

People who are addicted have to want to seak treatment because they want to, otherwise it won't work.

This will hopefully tighten controls and make sure that ALL pharmacies are networked to flag if someone is in danger. It's already hard for people with legit pain who aren't celebrity. Why is it easier for celebrity to get what they want when they want it? Money and that shouldn't be the case. We need to know how he was able to skirt the rules and hold the people who participated accountable. If he turned to illegal means of obtaining, well then he should go to jail just like anyone else who gets caught forging a script. Which is easy to consider, it was suicide because he knew the dangers and kept pushing? Or wreck less homicide because other knew the dangers and kept pushing? My opino , both sides should be held accountable. And another point, the criminality and punishment needs to be addressed as well. Why are addicts in jail for being addicts? That's not cool. Laws need to change here to treat drug crimes like I got caught with all these drugs cuz I'm strung out and instead of getting mental health help, I'm going to prison.

Agree with most of what you wrote but controls on pain meds are already incredibly strict, especially since they changed them to a Schedule 2 narcotic. Many doctors are afraid to write that shit at all and malpractice lawsuits hamstring and scare a lot of physicians in a lot different ways. People with the means and the money like Prince will always be able to score and circumvent the process. Any drug seeker can, although in different ways than a rich person can. "Tighter restrictions" and a punitive approach will only make the problem worse and lead to more heroin use.

headtripparade said:

herb4 said:

This makes no sense. It takes 3.5 hours to fly from SF to Minneapolis.

Minneapolis is 2 hours ahead of San Fran.

Oh yeah. I'm an idiot.
It's a medical issue, not a criminal one. This country needs to take a serious look at our healthcare system; our approach to drugs and mental health in particular. I don't think locking up doctors or users is the answer though.

[Edited 5/7/16 11:00am]

RiotPaisley said:

beachy said:

From the books I've read about Prince, he has had several close calls over the years.

They always managed to save him in time.

I would expect that Prince took charge of his own medication and his own life. He made the decision that he needed certain drugs in order to function and took responsibility for that.

He was the boss at PP. No one really had an option, if they wanted to work for Prince, to directly go against his wishes. He is well known for being a control freak.

Personally, I think we should stop with all the 2nd guessing. Drugs usually go with the territory of being a rock star. I respect Prince that he limited his drugs to those he needed to function and in all other ways led an exemplary health conscious lifestyle. Its tragic what happened, but I feel it was his time to go. His artistry had come full circle and he was now playing alone, with just a piano, wearing an afro as if he was a teenager again. His work was done.

I get what you are saying, I just don't think this is the way he should have gone out. It's said he had other plans. He could have sought treatment for the pain, quit taking the pain pills which probably allowed him to keep going and consequently doing further dammage, causing even more pain. He could have had an amazing end of life career doing sit down piano tours, accoustic sets, residencies at places around the world where he could go back and tell stories, releasing vault material etc. Problem is, artists like Prince make more money for other people when they are dead especially when they go out suddenly and "too soon". I'm just looking for answers and can't let it go yet until I know there wasn't stuff being done illegally on the part of pain mgmt doctors or whomever. This issue has hit me so close to home on every aspect of it. From dealing with my own addiction where I know how careful I have to be when I have flare ups and need treatment to watching loved ones abuse and die. It's such a problem in this country and its really scary to think that we consume 80% of the worlds opioid supply. Why is that? What is the real issue behind that? Digging into what happened with Prince might give a clearer picture or add more insight to the river of addiction. His death does not need to be in vain and maybe things will change because of it. It really does need to be discussed for what it really was about without trying to cover anything up because we don't want to face reality. His legacy can't be tarnished by this because we know he wasn't just trying to get high. He, like many Americans who struggle with this are was just trying to survive. People have to prop themselves up by any means necessary to keep food on the table. We need to push for better education of / from doctors - for years doctors didn't warn people of how addictive opioids are. People took them like candy because hey a doctor said it was ok. Our nativity and trust in the medical/ pharmaceutical companies isn't hard to understand. Turn on the tv and every other commercial is take a pill to fix this or that. Opioids making you constipated? Don't be concerned about what it's doing to you, take this pill to help you void. opiods got you addicted? Here, come to this methadone clinic for 100 bucks a pop. Won't I get addicted? No, no it's ok! It's a prescription. Check out the documentary Methadonia (it was on Netflix) and tell me if you think that's a good idea. Like I said in previous posts- when MJ died a story came out either right before or soon after that that Prince needed hip replacement but wasn't because of religious beliefs and was taking pills to "control" the pain instead. I said damn it Prince, if MJ isn't a warning to you - I don't know what is. I need to talk about this here because when you talk to nonPrince lovers, they just want to chalk him up as another rockstar junkie. It's safe here because we know that wasn't exactly the case. Anyway, again I am sorry if people are bothered by the discussion of this. Stay out of the thread if you want to put it to rest.it needs to be talked about. It could save lives.

I felt like this was really heartfelted. Thanks for sharing. I'll check on the docu. It's crazy for me here in Europe to read this stuff...:-O

I don't know if this is a good source but I found this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/prince-reportedly-willingly-contacted-dr-howard-kornfeld-about-substance-abuse-2365387

rightbluecheek said:

I don't know if this is a good source but I found this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/prince-reportedly-willingly-contacted-dr-howard-kornfeld-about-substance-abuse-2365387

It's not bad but they are just restating bits from other articles, mostly the NYT piece. Also they strongly imply he called the CA doctor himself, which the doctor's attorney said is not true.

Eileen said:

rightbluecheek said:

I don't know if this is a good source but I found this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/prince-reportedly-willingly-contacted-dr-howard-kornfeld-about-substance-abuse-2365387

It's not bad but they are just restating bits from other articles, mostly the NYT piece. Also they strongly imply he called the CA doctor himself, which the doctor's attorney said is not true.

Yes, I understood he agreed on calling the doc but that it wasn't his idea. This article says it was...

herb4 said:

You're 100% correct. I keep reading Posrs that state things like- why didn't anyone stay with him? Or why did people leave him alone?
Do people not realize this is Prince we're talking about? He was the Boss, everyone else was an employee. If Prince said leave me alone, the employees had to do just that. Same thing with his Friends. A friend can ask to stay with you, but you can say no. In the end, the Addict makes the call whether to accept help or not.

Selena4641 said:

You're 100% correct. I keep reading Posrs that state things like- why didn't anyone stay with him? Or why did people leave him alone? Do people not realize this is Prince we're talking about? He was the Boss, everyone else was an employee. If Prince said leave me alone, the employees had to do just that. Same thing with his Friends. A friend can ask to stay with you, but you can say no. In the end, the Addict makes the call whether to accept help or not.

Yep and on top of that, Prince liked "Yes men" behavior from all involved...

I realize there's a segment of fans that simply don't accept the answer of "because he wanted to be" to the question of "Why was he left alone that night" but that's really probably what it boils down to in this case.

jtfolden said:

Exactly. Prince could've made the choice to get help when his Plane made the emergency landing. Sadly, he choose not to. If he was going to go to California to get treatment, he could get treatment in Illinois. Or he could've got immediate help in Illinois and made arrangements with a Doctor to take over where he lived.

http://www.startribune.co...378419741/

Sorry if this was posted already.

herb4 said:

I totally agree and have brought up that point with people who have some pull...allegedly The increase of heroin as direct result of opioid restrictions. Interesting to note that states with medicinal marijuana have seen decline in prescription overdose and sharp declines in heroin use. Not sure exact numbers on either. Also interesting to note Minnesota will have medical marihuana beginning August 1, 2016. Again too late for our sweet Prince.

paulludvig said:

Eileen said:

A couple days ago I noted here a comment that somone had left under one of the Strib articles:

"geishagirl7 May. 5, 16
4:06 PM@Damiane Dig deeper, and you'll learn that Prince has been flirting with overdoses for a long time, not just the past 2 weeks."

Comment is probably made by Sinead O'Connor

I hate when people say stuff like this without giving any further evidence. Dig deeper? Where? I've heard a few references to him having pill problems and in comparison to all the other rockers, I cannot recall seeing him onstage out of control as we did Elvis, Whitney,Michael, Jimi, etc.., I can completely understand how us fans can't see everything but there always signs, always. With Prince, he was never sluggish or slurring or sleepy looking on stage, or incoherent. All the others had many embarrassing moments but not Prince, I don't get it.

beachy said:

lwr001 said:

if a doctor considered him to be in danger than can court order you for amandaorty 48 to 72 hour hold

From the books I've read about Prince, he has had several close calls over the years.

They always managed to save him in time.

I would expect that Prince took charge of his own medication and his own life. He made the decision that he needed certain drugs in order to function and took responsibility for that.

He was the boss at PP. No one really had an option, if they wanted to work for Prince, to directly go against his wishes. He is well known for being a control freak.

Personally, I think we should stop with all the 2nd guessing. Drugs usually go with the territory of being a rock star. I respect Prince that he limited his drugs to those he needed to function and in all other ways led an exemplary health conscious lifestyle. Its tragic what happened, but I feel it was his time to go. His artistry had come full circle and he was now playing alone, with just a piano, wearing an afro as if he was a teenager again. His work was done.

Maybe it was "just his time" man can go crazy trying to understand those kinds of ideas. if death is brought about by unnatural causes, it's always hard to rationalize. Happens all the time and makes no sense. One of my customers has a mom in her eighties, doesn't take care of herself, has all kinds of problems and she's still alive. It's strange. Maybe we need to start looking at our medications as more like poison than medicine. I'd rather suffer than go out because of some pill that some company puts out.

herb4 said:

RiotPaisley said:

beachy said: It's such a problem in this country and its really scary to think that we consume 80% of the worlds opioid supply. Why is that? What is the real issue behind that?

A broken healthcare system driven by profit, doctors' general lack of undersanding of the back and spine, the pressure and anxiety of our rat race society that leads people to seek immediate gratification and relief through self medication, the ridiculous "war on drugs" and zero tolerance approach, big pharma, our "quick fix" mentality as a nation and the idea that if a doctor precribes it to you, it's not really "drugs" and there's no stigma.

Same with anti-depressants. Even doctors really don't understand it. People take pills for everything; to lose weight, put on muscle mass, cure a hangover, ease anxiety and stress, etc. Anti-depressants cause as many problems as pain meds. Marijuana is a very effective pain medication for cancer patients but it's illegal so they get morphine and oxy.

right about everything but I'm still baffled by how people don't see prescription medicine as a problem. Enough people, and lots of famous people have died and/or had issues with them. I could see Elvis' plight, in those days, people just were not as aware of a lot of things but we've all seen enough people go that we should know that we should be wary.

RiotPaisley said:

Agreed.