I don't think Prince's vegetarianism had anything to do with his low RBC count, his chef seemed to know his stuff and would have delivered Prince a balanced diet. It seems like Prince had not been eating properly for a while, which is going to have an effect regardless of whether you eat meat or not.

A note on iron, it is not difficult to consume enough iron with a vegetarian/vegan diet it is found lots of vegetables and grains and as long as you are eating vitamin C alongside it then it is absorbed by the body fairly easily. As for essential amino acids (protein building blocks) it is very easy to get these from a vegetarian diet, eggs and cottage cheese, for example, contain all of them and like meat are considered a complete proteins. Essential amino acids can, however, be an issue for vegans.

I am pretty sure P ate eggs as I remember an interview a few years ago when he talked about cooking omelettes!

I think we are all just desperate to know what happened so we can find closure and start grieving properly.

sonshine said:
It feels like I've been in a time warp for the last two weeks. Has it really been two weeks already?! It's so hard to move on when there is no answer to the only question that matters: "WHY??!!" WHY did he have to go and leave so soon? WHY didn't he hold on just a few more hours??

I think Prince panicked. (This is just my theory.) He was told (probably) that Dr. Howard Kornfeld was on the way, who is an Addiction Doctor. I think Prince panicked. From what I have read from Dr. Kornfeld's website, he is an Addiction Doctor, BUT Dr. Kornfeld is also a Pain Management Specialist, and could have helped him. Prince just thought about how so many people were giving him a hard time about the medications he was taking. Prince just knew he was in a lot of pain. People that are in CHRONIC PAIN can understand this. Prince made a decision. It was too bad the doctor couldn't have gotten to him sooner. It's too bad that instead of telling Prince that an "Addiction Doctor" was on the way, instead Prince shouid have been told that a Pain Managment Doctor was on the way. I think, from the little bit of research that I have had the chance to do so far, that this doctor could have helped Prince. I think Prince panicked - he was afraid of losing his pain medications. He didn't take them to get high - he took them because he was in extreme, chronic pain.

If only we could turn the clock back.....

Rest In Peace, Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.

[Edited 5/5/16 11:50am]

if reports are to believed and IMHO they are true, he was exhibitign classic dope fiend behavior; denial, doctor shopping, being surreptitious in picking paharmacies away from his regular one..these are traits of an addict

lwr001 said:

if reports are to believed and IMHO they are true, he was exhibitign classic dope fiend behavior; denial, doctor shopping, being surreptitious in picking paharmacies away from his regular one..these are traits of an addict

They are the traits of someone who was in extreme, chronic pain. I wish you were kinder with your words. I do not consider someone who was in extreme, chronic pain to be an "addict". I consider these traits to be someone who was desperate for pain relief.

[Edited 5/5/16 11:55am]

mailaccount63 said:

lwr001 said:

if reports are to believed and IMHO they are true, he was exhibitign classic dope fiend behavior; denial, doctor shopping, being surreptitious in picking paharmacies away from his regular one..these are traits of an addict

They are the traits of someone who was in extreme, chronic pain. I wish you were kinder with your words. I do not consider someone who was in extreme, chronic pain to be an "addict". I consider these traits to be someone who was desperate for pain relief.

[Edited 5/5/16 11:55am]

i dont want to sugar coat,,yes it all starts with pain, either, physical or emotional but somewhere along the line it led us here

Telling the truth and the whole truth is essential. Telling the whole story is not sugar coating. Without the mention of chronic pain per hip replacement is an untruth by ommision

lwr001 said:

mailaccount63 said:

They are the traits of someone who was in extreme, chronic pain. I wish you were kinder with your words. I do not consider someone who was in extreme, chronic pain to be an "addict". I consider these traits to be someone who was desperate for pain relief.

[Edited 5/5/16 11:55am]

i dont want to sugar coat,,yes it all starts with pain, either, physical or emotional but somewhere along the line it led us here

"sugar coat"?!? Can't you just be kinder with your words?!? This was a man who was desperate for pain relief!!! I think you are a cruel, judgmental person. People like you and with that attitude are THE reason Prince did what he did.... remember that.

[Edited 5/6/16 8:36am]

mailaccount63 said:

lwr001 said:

mailaccount63 said:

lwr001 said:

i dont want to sugar coat,,yes it all starts with pain, either, physical or emotional but somewhere along the line it led us here

"sugar coat"?!? Can't you just be kinder with your words?!? This was a man who was desperate for pain relief!!! I think you are a cruel, judgmental person. You and your attitude are THE reason Prince did what he did.... remember that.

I'm not convinced that lwr001 was personally responsible. It is certainly looking more and more likely that Prince became addicted to pain killers to combat his chronic pain.

stuart3121 said:

I just got an email from the midwest medical examiners office, basically saying anything you read is false because they havent released any information, not even to the police [Edited 5/5/16 12:23pm]

Just got a tweet from them, so we pretty much are back at square one.

mailaccount63 said:

lwr001 said:

i dont want to sugar coat,,yes it all starts with pain, either, physical or emotional but somewhere along the line it led us here

"sugar coat"?!? Can't you just be kinder with your words?!? This was a man who was desperate for pain relief!!! I think you are a cruel, judgmental person. You and your attitude are THE reason Prince did what he did.... remember that.

With all due respect, and I don't have too much for you right now, you need to step back and stop blaming others. You have been putting a hell of a lot of words in Prince's mouth that he is not around to even say.

lwr001 is NOT IN ANY WAY responsible for what happened to Prince and neither is any other fan in existence. You may need to pretend and paint the scenario in a certain way that allows you to grieve easier but if that's the case then you should stay away from the org for a while instead of lashing out at other fans that don't agree with you.

There was a HELL of a lot more going on here than the mere search for pain relief, and certainly a lot more than you know yourself or are allowing yourself to admit. That doesn't mean he was a junkie but there's a fine, fine line between physical/chemical dependence and additction for those that want to split hairs. If there weren't, he would probably still be with us.

ivey0126 said:

stuart3121 said:

I just got an email from the midwest medical examiners office, basically saying anything you read is false because they havent released any information, not even to the police [Edited 5/5/16 12:23pm]

Just got a tweet from them, so we pretty much are back at square one.

Thank you for keeping us updated.

stuart3121 said:

I just got an email from the midwest medical examiners office, basically saying anything you read is false because they havent released any information, not even to the police [Edited 5/5/16 12:23pm]

THANK YOU. le sigh.... let the reports come in. Anyone "reporting" or writing their opinions on the heresay so far, is just emoting a bunch of theories. Sit tight and lets see where it lands.

If they are releasing this now, hopefully the full autopsy results will be soon so we can all begin healing.....

http://www.startribune.com/federal-agents-to-join-prince-death-investigation/378168981/#1

The painkiller Percocet was present in Prince’s body when he was found dead April 21 in a Paisley Park elevator, a source familiar with the investigation said Wednesday.

However, it is not yet clear whether the potent opioid caused or contributed to the musician’s death, the source stressed.

The revelation came on the same day that federal law enforcement authorities joined the investigation into the death of Prince, who was seeking emergency help for an addiction to opioid painkillers during the week of his collapse.

The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) and the U.S. attorney’s office announced that they were assisting Carver County investigators following the public disclosure that a California physician had been called for addiction treatment. The doctor was scheduled to meet Prince in the Twin Cities the day after the artist was found dead.

Criminal investigators are scrutinizing how Prince acquired the painkillers, or any medications used to treat the addiction.

A spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office declined to comment Wednesday, other than to say that federal officials can advise Carver County investigators regarding the diversion of prescription drugs beyond their prescribed uses. Confronting the diversion of opioid pain medications has been a priority for the DEA, the Department of Justice and U.S. Attorney Andrew Luger.

Prince's star on the wall of First Avenue has been painted gold, sometime overnight Wednesday.

“While this remains an ongoing investigation, we will have no further comment,” the spokesman said Wednesday.

Prince was pronounced dead at 10:07 a.m. April 21, 19 minutes after emergency responders arrived after receiving a 911 call. The cause of death remains undetermined, pending the results of an autopsy and toxicology tests. While those tests have not been completed, they showed that Percocet was present, the source said Wednesday night.

Among the first to discover Prince was Andrew Kornfeld, who had flown overnight from California at the request of his father, Dr. Howard Kornfeld, a specialist in addiction treatment. According to William Mauzy, a prominent Minneapolis-based attorney working with the Kornfelds, Andrew Kornfeld was supposed to talk to Prince about returning to California for extensive treatment. He also brought a starter dose of buprenorphine, a drug commonly prescribed to treat opioid addiction. Howard Kornfeld was scheduled to meet with Prince a day later.

A few days earlier, on April 15, Prince suffered an opioid overdose and his plane was diverted to Moline, Ill., while en route from Atlanta to Minneapolis, according to sources with knowledge of the investigation.

Medics in Moline gave him a dose of naloxone, or Narcan, to counteract the opioids.

Less than a week later, representatives for the musician reached out to Howard Kornfeld’s Recovery Without Walls clinic in Mill Valley, Calif., which specializes in the use of Suboxone, a drug containing buprenorphine, as part of addiction treatment.

When Prince started taking opioid medications is unclear, but news reports indicated he underwent hip surgery several years ago due to the pounding his body took from his energetic stage performances.

An increasing body of research supports the effectiveness of Suboxone, which contains buprenorphine to manage pain and naloxone to reduce opioid cravings.

The famed Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation, based in Center City, Minn., has long favored abstinence and counseling for treatment, and surprised many in 2013 when it added Suboxone to its opioid addiction program.

Since that time, the number of opioid addicts dropping out of treatment early has declined from 25 percent to 5 percent, said Dr. Marvin Seppala, Hazelden’s chief medical officer.

“It limits cravings and helps a number of patients with opioid-use disorder engage in treatment and stick around in treatment,” he said.

Suboxone, however, is surprisingly hard to access in Minnesota, where only about 120 doctors have completed the federal certification necessary to prescribe it.

Extra training and supervision is needed, in part because Suboxone has a street value and can be misused by addicts to manage their cravings until they can afford more heroin or prescription opioids.

Seppala has found it difficult to refer Hazelden patients to doctors closer to their homes who can prescribe the medication. An organization called Heroin Addiction Ltd. was formed by a retired Burnsville physician specifically to recruit more doctors to provide the drug.

“Primary-care doctors … don’t like treating people with addiction,” Seppala said. “They don’t want them in their waiting rooms. They feel like it prevents other people from coming to see them. I think that’s primarily based on stigma and bias.”

Representatives for Prince called Howard Kornfeld the night of April 20, because the musician “was dealing with a grave medical emergency,” Mauzy said. They reached out to the doctor, he said, because of his national reputation as an addiction researcher.

Balloons, flowers and other mementos were attached to the fence and trees surrounding Paisley Park in Chanhassen in honor of the memory of Prince.

More

As a licensed California doctor with a DEA registry to prescribe controlled substances, Howard Kornfeld would have been able to issue medications to a Minnesotan. He has published research in medical journals regarding buprenorphine and has been quoted in multiple news reports based on his expertise with the medication.

The Kornfelds provided authorities with information, along with the initial dose of medication that was intended for Prince, Mauzy said.

While Carver County authorities have characterized the case as a criminal investigation, that doesn’t mean that it will result in charges.

Results from the death investigation could still be weeks away, due in part to the complexity of interpreting toxicology tests and determining whether any drugs found in Prince’s bloodstream were unusual and toxic enough to have contributed to his death.

[Edited 5/5/16 13:36pm]

ivey0126 said:

Superconductor said:

sonshine said:

lwr001 said:

if reports are to believed and IMHO they are true, he was exhibitign classic dope fiend behavior; denial, doctor shopping, being surreptitious in picking paharmacies away from his regular one..these are traits of an addict

Opiates are the devil.

Your entire existence eventually revolves around the pills.

This is patently untrue and does not deserve such a blanket statment.

Again, the issue is over-prescribing, especially for people with the financial and social means like Prince (or Elvis or MJ or Whitney). I'm prescribed 10mg of hydrocodone for the health problems I mentioned earlier and went two weeks without taking anything. No withdrawal, no pain. I didn't have any pain so I didn't take them for two weeks.

Oxy (Percocet) is a bit of different animal and way stronger than Hydrocodone (Norco) but, still. Some the people posting here sound like those sensational 80's anti drug ads where if you try crack one time you're hooked for life or something.

If you take this medcine AS PRESCRIBED, it's remarkable effective and allows people millions of people to actually function. I resisted prescription pain meds for years until one day I realized I couldn't lift my infant son out of his crib. I was a stay at home dad. Being able to lift him was rather important. I do the physical stuff too and some chiropractory but people (including doctors) simply don't understand the back/hip and all the nerves that get pinched in there.

When I went to the ER, my left leg muscles were spasming like something out of a horror movie. When they gave me the MRI, I couldn't stop it from moving and they were pissed at me because I needed to lay still. MY leg looked like a special effect from a werewolf or a David Cronenberg movie. It was insane. They gave me two shots of Dilaudid and an Oxy and it STILL fucking hurt.

Think of the pain you get when you have dental surgery and it permeates your entire jaw and head. You're dealing with RAW NERVES here, not cuts and scrapes. Nerves in your teeth and in your back. It's like dental pain only with your back, hips and legs - your entire center of gravity. You can't fucking MOVE.

many years ago i popped a disc in my cervical neck and the herniated disc pinched a nerve in my arm. the pain was unbearable, interolerable and as each second dragged by it pissed me off. when i was diagnosed, my surgery was set for a week out and i received a scrip for 60 percocet. i remember the pharmacist called to speak to my Dr to make sure it was legit. anyway, that week floated by in a soft, pink puffy dream. that hideous, screaming howling bitch of a nerve pain in my arm was gone.

.

i can understand completely where prince was coming from. if the surgery hadn't fixed me, i hate to say i would've gone right back to those magic pills. they really do work on pain, big time.

JellyJam said:

herb4 said:

Co-sign. I have a bulging disc and arthritis in my back and hip. When it "flares", I can barely walk. I janked it particularly bad one time and couldn't sleep for close o two months. I could only sleep on one side of my body and whenever I moved, I'd wake up. It was agony. I had to use a walker. Went to the ER even.

Most doctors I went to accused me of faking and drug seeking. They're so gun shy about prescribing these things thanks to DEA crack downs and rescheduling. What happens is that people who need them are demonized as junkies and the people who got overprescribed and hooked on them have turned to heroin as a cheaper and easier way to avoid withdrawal.

Chalk up another victory for the "war on drugs" and our stupid health system.

Now that a high profile celebrity has succumbed to them, expect even tougher legislation and opportunistic politicians sponsoring "The Prince Act" which will only make the problem worse. The heroin epedemic in this country is a direct result of overprescribing these meds and the subsequent overreaction and crackdown by the DEA.

Very well put. This could potentially have been an opportunity to look at the wider issues of under-prescribing much needed drugs for sufferers of chronic pain, and ongoing care for such sufferers; it could be an opportunity to revisit the broader approach to dealing with drug issues (not only "addiction" which has turned into a meaningless self-serving moral crusade, rather than a concerted effort to understand the nature of addiction, but also "dependence" which is entirely different but usually lumped together with addiction by lazy journalists and the imbecilic "moral majority"); but sadly it'll be used by politicians of all allegiances to further prop up a failing/failed system.

Everything you say about the US is equally relevant here in the UK. The blind leading the blind.

I totally agree with herb4 and Jelly Jam. People need to stop demonizing all drugs. This makes it more difficult for people who need them to get them under appropriate supervision. Because they need them to sleep or to perform, they will find a less legal way. You cannot blame them. The pain and the agony of not being able to sleep is truly torture. Don't judge until you have been in the same dire circumstances yourself.

Secondly I feel the pharmocology sector is remiss for not developing better, safer, less addictive drugs to aid sleep and dull pain. One wonders if they profit too much from the side effect of dependency so they won't improve the product.

Another factor that needs to be taken into account is that Prince was an extremely high functioning performer. He usually worked at night and sometimes for days straight on. Other people could not maintain his focus. His dancing on stage is legendary. His skills on the guitar extraordinary. He's not some low life who wasted his life because he was hooked on drugs. He was a higher functioning and contributing member of society than any of the self righteous moralists judging him.

[Edited 5/5/16 17:00pm]

[Edited 5/5/16 17:05pm]

sonshine said:

lwr001 said:

if reports are to believed and IMHO they are true, he was exhibitign classic dope fiend behavior; denial, doctor shopping, being surreptitious in picking paharmacies away from his regular one..these are traits of an addict

That may all be true, but it still leaves me begging why it took so long to seek help, so many why's. Opiates are the devil. I feel incredible empathy and emotional pain for him because I know dozens of others like him. I see them every day at work. I know the hell his life was because of these powerful drugs. Your entire existence eventually revolves around the pills. His life meant so much more than the way it ended. I dont want to see his incredible legacy, his contributions to the music and entertainment worlds, not to mention the worthy causes he supported, his immense talent and charisma, his humanity, and his loyalty to the state of minnesota reduced to the terrible footnote: he was an addict. He was so much more than that obviously.

To truly understand someone like Prince, you need to start from the fact that his pain and insomnia were first of all the living hell and the pills provided relief. The pills did not make his life a living hell. They were in fact helpful. Of course they are also dangerous when taken in extreme duress. He wasn't popping pills for the fun of it.

herb4 said:

IstenSzek said:

who are all these people who are 'extremely close to the investigation' and are just

leaking stuff to the press left right and center? do the press pay so much that they
willingly put their job on the line to sell a story?

They do pay alot and they even pay more than that if you will spice up your story so that they can sell more papers. I would take everything with a grain of salt, including the official story which could very well be only half the story.

XxAxX said:

many years ago i popped a disc in my cervical neck and the herniated disc pinched a nerve in my arm. the pain was unbearable, interolerable and as each second dragged by it pissed me off. when i was diagnosed, my surgery was set for a week out and i received a scrip for 60 percocet. i remember the pharmacist called to speak to my Dr to make sure it was legit. anyway, that week floated by in a soft, pink puffy dream. that hideous, screaming howling bitch of a nerve pain in my arm was gone.

.

i can understand completely where prince was coming from. if the surgery hadn't fixed me, i hate to say i would've gone right back to those magic pills. they really do work on pain, big time.

Worth noting too that often surgery doesn't work at all (especially operations having to do with nerve clusters and sensitive joints) and is prohibitively expensive on top of it for the average person.

That's the other thing. Given the sorry state of health care coverage in the U.S., it's entirely reasonable for someone to opt for opioids over a surgery that not only may not fix the problem, but which also can bankrupt most people. The cortisone shot I got in my spine hurt worse than than the regular back pain, took my pain level down from a 9 to an 8 and was not covered by insurance because it was considered "exploratory" or something. It was bullshit.

I'm undergoing depression treatment and it's a similar thing. The meds the prescribe do fuck all and actually make me noticeably worse. My psychiatrist has mentioned some sort of magnetic brain stimulation thing. "TMS"

HEre it is:

https://neurostar.com/

But my insurance won't cover it at all (and I have good insurance right now) unless I first try FIVE anti depressant medications first, which not only take 30-60 days before it can be determined what effect they're having but also often, as I said, make my depression and my behavior even worse and often have horrible side effects (eretcile dysfunction, mania, lack of impulse control, apathy, forgetfulness, drowsiness). So that means I have to experiment for 10 months with DRUGS that fuck up my life worse than the depression ever did in order to try an scientific NON DRUG approach.

I am also required to visit my doctor every 30 days (same with the pain meds) which conflicts with my family, my job and my schedule and often makes the stress that contributes to these ills even worse, so my issues intesnify.

The sorry fucking state of medicine in this country infuriates me and somehing's going to have to be done about it.

I note this comment on one of the Strib articles:

"geishagirl7 May. 5, 16
4:06 PM@Damiane Dig deeper, and you'll learn that Prince has been flirting with overdoses for a long time, not just the past 2 weeks."

herb4 said:

headtripparade said:

I just read the report from Channel 5 that was posted up thread and if it's true and they're able to be getting scraps from his blood tests, can't we assume that the tox report is back and we should get the news any time?

There are test/tox results from the autopsy. They just have to be confirmed with third-party testing before they are considered final. Also I read that the third-party testing will get more in-depth results. But they do get preliminary results quickly and have had them.

spastic78 said:

herb4 said:

Stuff about pain and drugs and shit.

Most pain management doctors also treat addiction.

Most pain management doctors very simply don't prescribe enough to get you hooked. They can't, unless the want the DEA all over their ass.

Like I said, I had a good two week run with little to no pain, didn't need the drugs and didn't take them. I spoke with the doc about it and he said the same thing. "You're not prescribed enough to be addicted". I know a few things about adiction. I'm a recovering cocaine adict (25 years clean), a smoker and a highly functioning alcoholic. I've had my issues with weed, porn...All sorts of things.

A drug is a drug, period. Legal or not. Nicotine is a drug, caffeine, booze...

When you're rich and famous though, and surrounded by a circle of yes men and, to some extent, "enablers" I guess, it's easier to tilt over and overdo this shit because no one says "no" and money talks.

I hate terms like "gateway drug" and "enabler" though.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, can keep an addict from using. If they don't cop it from Tony, they'll go around the block and get it from Steve. Or Doctor Nick. I'm about to get divorced primarily because my wife doesn't understand addiction and can no longer deal with it. I'm not dependant - on porn, alcohol or anything else - but I AM an addict and always will be. All the laws and punishment in the world won't stop me or cure me. There is no cure.

People like my Mother, who has so many prescribed pills in her purse it sounds like a box of tic-tacs, like to delude themselves that they're not addicts because a DOCTOR prescrbed it. Truth is, if you want it, you can find a Doctor to prescribe just about anything, especially, like I said, if you're rich and famous. The onyl difference really is that if a Dr. gives it to you, it not only removes the stigma and provides a smug air superiority to your average street junkie, but it also gives you legal recourse if you're stopped and searched.

But it's still DRUGS.

The way this nation (and this world really) treats the drug issue is Draconian and backwards. It only makes the problem worse. Look at all the veterans who came back from Nam hooked on morphine and shit, geting thier legs shot off for no reason at all, the diet pill wives, the steroid freaks, the people serving 10 years in jail for a half ounce of grass via the "Three Strikes" laws, the black teens who get 10 years extra sentences just because their cocaine was rocked up instead of powdered like Danny The Day Trader's was. The covert wars waged by our own government that were funded by drug trafficking.

Look at how prohibition and the Volstead act gave rise to an entire generation of gangsters and killers. The grossly disproportional application of the law and the sentencing guidelines for poor minority communities...

Sorry, I'm ranting, but this issue pisses me off - as a drug user, as a recovering addict, as a sufferer of chronic pain, and as a victim of our stupid health care system - and a lot of the comments I'm reading in this thread are pissing me off too ("Charge the Doctors", "Prosecute Everyone!", "Where was everybody?").

Punish. Punish. Punish.

Prince had free will. He LIVED by it. Fought for it. Strove for it. ACHEIVED IT. At least now his pain is gone and his gifts live forever.