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Printablespastic78 said: sonshine said: I agree with Dr drew. I dont think its crazy to assume the trauma he suffered as a child made him turn to the drugs initially as an easy fix. It's a very common scenario. But in the end it's the furthest thing from easy once you get in the habit of using. None of this makes prince a bad person either. It is what it is. And no one should take the fall for what happened. Not the guy who called 911 or the guy who took him to Walgreens etc. The only thing that makes this incredibly hard to accept it that no one saw fit to stay with him. I'm not saying they needed to say no to him about getting his pills or taking his pills. That would be dangerous in itself. But someone should have been close by to lend aid or call 911should he happen to OD again before real help arrived for him the next day. If not someone on the payroll then a friend. Surely he had one true friend that wouldn't take no for an answer. Someone who felt safe enough telling him they loved him too much to leave him alone to die in an elevator his body lying there possibly for hours I'm afraid. BUT he didn't turn to drugs...he was prescribed pain meds for symptoms he had!! we don't know that. We don't know how he initially got started. He was obviously prescribed pills somewhere along the line but that doesn't mean he didn't start much earlier in life under other circumstances. I'm not even saying that would be a bad thing or a worse thing. It happens every day. People don't realize how powerful opiates are. Lots of people develop a problem sue to legitimate circumstances, and some pop a few for kicks at a party when they are 15 yrs old and pretty soon they are doing all kinds of crazy shit to get their fix. I'm just sayin we don't really know how or when or why he got started. It's really beside the point tho. It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN | |
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PeteSilas said:
ya i saw that too, who knows if it's real or not. I would be really surprised if the toxicology doesn't list a variety of drugs as its often the mixture or combination of things that's lethal. It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN | |
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Dang!I heard or read somewhere that rigor mortis had already started to set in. Apparently he had been dead for hours.
i am pretty sure Prince would have ordered everyone to leave him alone. Tyka's husband said he hadn't slept all week. He must have been in a horrible state and wanted sleep so badly.
I assume he did have some underlying problem whether cancer or the flu and the plane incident sent him into withdrawal and he was even more of a mess than usual. In a weakened condition, then the pain pill probably stopped his respiratory function.
It's sad but I think its a tragic accident. If you read Hahn's book apparently there have been close calls before. There was some kind of emergency the month after he married Mayte for instance where they found him with 4 wine bottles and some pills.
I'm not blaming him I am very sympathetic to the pressures he was under which were immense in order to perform at his level and keep it going all these years. | |
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Psych are u ok | |
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that's correct, the memphis mafia had a pretty bad rep. However, they saw that elvis was in trouble and they did do things to stop the inevitable. Then, they got canned and decided to spill the beans, either to "help" elvis as they said, or to retaliate and make money or a mixture of all. Elvis, for his part banged his forehead against a wall and said his life was over when he read an advance copy. I also believe that Red West, the main friend of Elvis out of those guys, also felt very guilty when it was all said and done. I base this just off of his lack of contact with the media for most of the intervening years. Yet and still, I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a bodyguard and let someone die on their watch. Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Karate champion had the distinction of working for Elvis and for John Belushi, Belushi actually died on his watch. | |
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headtripparade said: spastic78 said: I'm looking at the official transcript from Carver County Prince Investigation . Times were not released other than death. And to me it's clear that there is no EMT personnel there administering CPR or anything until right before 10:07. The sheriffs report doesn't state a time of arrival either but did administer CPR. Something is not right though. Change is tiny. Police are everywhere especially in that area. Why didn't the two others provide CPR? Why didn't they know the address? [Edited 5/4/16 20:01pm] http://www.co.carver.mn.u...nt?id=7349 This report explicitly states that the ambulance arrived at 9:48, some 5 minutes after the 9:43 call. We are to assume they were with him for 19 minutes before declaring death. And frankly, not trying to be gruesome, but if he is visibly dead there is nothing they can do. The address wasn't known because the California doctor's son made the call and he had never been to Paisley Park before in his life. He thought they were in Minneapolis proper, for goodness sake. That's the Sherriff's narrative or summary.it kind of conflicts with the actual 911 call audio and transcript. But it does explain why they are busting their tails top in the blame on a third party without respect for Prince's reputation per se. It was a simple overdose and CPR was given on time nor was a "save shot" because PP reps were hysterical, Emergency Response was nonchalant (here we go again another PP call) and the ambulance find get there soon enough. Btw, there are several medical clinics, doctors and pain management centers less than 3 miles from PP. | |
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i also saw someone here say that rigor mortis had already set in, which i guess could possibly mean he actually passed on the 20th. | |
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Without an ME report giving a true estimated time of death, I'm working off the 3 statements of him not eating his dinner the night before, the 911 caller specifically saying "he's dead" and the EMTs calling dispatch to say "cancel all other units we have a confirmed DOA." I don't know what the deal is in Minnesota, but here EMTs can only pronounce death if there are specific signs that are met such as discoloration, rigor, or being cold to the touch. If there are ANY signs of life, including still being warm, EMTs must start life saving procedures and transport to a local hospital where the doctor will have to determine whether or not to continue working on the person. It fucks me up. I hate that he died in that elevator. I've been raving to my husband for two weeks like a lunatic asking what the hell is going to happen to the rest of us if Prince can die alone in an elevator?  | |
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yeah if he was in the elevator it could have happened right after they dropped him off and he popped some pills thinking he was finally going to get the sleep he desperately needed, and never made it up there because he was frail and the body would not have resisted the impact. He hadn;t eaten so the pills would have had an immediate and stronger effect. if he took ambien you just drift off. By then I'm sure it was painless and a relief to escape the suffering. [Edited 5/4/16 20:39pm] | |
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Eileen said: The "two others" were screaming and distraught and in no position to be providing CPR to the obviously dead body of the employer/friend they had unwittingly stumbled across.
I know somewhere it was noted that the attorney kept saying "unconscious," however he also slipped once and said "dead" and in the 911 call his client also did say that Prince was dead, in addition to unconscious. Yes, but couldn't they have kept it together and just immediately rendered CPR? Always panic after you've fixed the problem not before. Yes, the attorney used both words and in my recollection of the call the young man asks the other two to give CPR but then later says forget it..he's dead..which is when the coos arrive and confirm death at 10:07. I felt for Andrew cuz he clearly was trying for best outcome while the others "we're running scared". | |
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spastic78 said: headtripparade said: http://www.co.carver.mn.u...nt?id=7349 This report explicitly states that the ambulance arrived at 9:48, some 5 minutes after the 9:43 call. We are to assume they were with him for 19 minutes before declaring death. And frankly, not trying to be gruesome, but if he is visibly dead there is nothing they can do. The address wasn't known because the California doctor's son made the call and he had never been to Paisley Park before in his life. He thought they were in Minneapolis proper, for goodness sake. That's the Sherriff's narrative or summary.it kind of conflicts with the actual 911 call audio and transcript. But it does explain why they are busting their tails top in the blame on a third party without respect for Prince's reputation per se. It was a simple overdose and CPR was given on time nor was a "save shot" because PP reps were hysterical, Emergency Response was nonchalant (here we go again another PP call) and the ambulance find get there soon enough. Btw, there are several medical clinics, doctors and pain management centers less than 3 miles from PP. I thought it matched very well with the transcript. At any rate, I think the more important issue is that he had likely been deceased for a while before he was found. There was absolutely nothing to be done, whether CPR started immediately the second they found him or 19 minutes later. He was simply gone. | |
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beachy said: I heard or read somewhere that rigor mortis had already started to set in. Apparently he had been dead for hours.
i am pretty sure Prince would have ordered everyone to leave him alone. Tyka's husband said he hadn't slept all week. He must have been in a horrible state and wanted sleep so badly.
I assume he did have some underlying problem whether cancer or the flu and the plane incident sent him into withdrawal and he was even more of a mess than usual. In a weakened condition, then the pain pill probably stopped his respiratory function.
It's sad but I think its a tragic accident. If you read Hahn's book apparently there have been close calls before. There was some kind of emergency the month after he married Mayte for instance where they found him with 4 wine bottles and some pills.
I'm not blaming him I am very sympathetic to the pressures he was under which were immense in order to perform at his level and keep it going all these years. That's the thing. He was obviously already gone quite some time and the investigators or whatever are trying to be considerate and choosing their words carefully. So please everyone stop picking apart every little detail looking for something that's not there. He's gone. And nothing will bring him back. Not blaming the SUV driver or the poor guy who flew overnight to help him or the doctors here and in calif who were trying to help in the end. It's complicated. And how much more information do you need? Let the poor guy rest in peace. Help one another. Pray for acceptance and strength for because many of us are having trouble accepting how this played out in the end. That he was alone is very hard to wrap my head around. Your paid employees leaving you is one thing but that not one of his supposed close friends cared enough or felt comfortable enough to stay regardless of his wishes tells me that he didn't have at least one person who loves you even at your worst because they know you are worth their trouble even when you least deserve it. That's what a true friend is for. He just deserved better than to go out alone and sick and I'm afraid to even imagine what his final moments were like. Godspeed prince! [Edited 5/4/16 20:46pm] It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN | |
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I actually don't think his death was so horrible. Tragic yes, but I also know what alot of pain feels like, and how tortured and desperate you can get when you have not slept for many days. Its agony. I'm pretty sure by then he just wanted relief however he could get it. The pills just made the death very easy, literally painless. They just knocked him out. I say that because I think we can be comforted that it wasn't a terrible long drawn out painful death. I am guessing that people probably offered and even insisted to stay with him after last Friday but he said no. You can't force yourself on someone, especially your boss. | |
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People just throwing "info" out with no source of any kind | |
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The thought crossed my mind that the reason for Dr. Kornfeld's lawyer going to the media was to cover his own butt. But so far, there is no reason to believe he or his son did anything wrong. | |
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Not sure who you were referring to but if me, i just googled rigor mortis and prince and the place I read it came up http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/29/prince-final-days-death-percocet The guardian is a well regarded UK newspaper.
The stuff about the effect of ambien etc on weakened condition to flu I can tell you from my personal experience. I am familiar with ambien and percoset and also very familiar with chronic pain and insomnia. I've used the drugs. I had a near death experience when down with a very bad case of flu. | |
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From what I've read, opiate withdrawal or overdose have similar symptoms as the flu. | |
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This is so infuriating! I had read the rumors of drug usage before, Cat giving him X, the od story from the twins, the step-brother claims of drug use, etc., but i brushed them off cause people in his life said he lived a clean life, they never saw him do drugs, etc. But, here we are now after his death guessing what drugs he od'ed on. I never thought this would be the last impression Prince would leave with us. It's turned into a free for all. I hate it for him. I hate it! | |
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I take it as the people around Prince were takng strong measures to get him help and the Kornfields responded immediately the best they could. I was really happy to hear there had been effort to get him help. | |
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I hate it when people lump all drugs together as bad. Taking prescription pills to sleep or manage pain is completely different from taking recreational drugs to party or feel good. Maybe Prince tried X once or twice but he did not party with drugs. He needed prescription pills to function. People who have never been in his circumstances don't understand it because they function normally without medication. | |
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beachy said:
I take it as the people around Prince were takng strong measures to get him help and the Kornfields responded immediately the best they could. I was really happy to hear there had been effort to get him help. I wouldn't believe that narrative just yet. Taken only from TMZ, the options are, as people here seem to believe, there was a good-hearted attempt at an intervention. And the other option, that these people were the latest in a line of doctors getting Prince his meds. I've just watched the doctor's lawyer's statement... and it stinks. I know today people have been upset at the thought of Prince being so close to life-saving help. But I'm not convinced he was. The Police (per TMZ) have a different idea about it. Why would a Dr carrying meds he uses for work be trying to hide behind an immunity law? Why come all the way across the country to save someone? No one local for Prince? It's made to sound both like an intervention, but at the same time the 'meet' was made with Prince's full knowledge. Yes, this doctor appears legit. But so do all the others we know are being investigated for prescription abuse relating to Prince right now (if you believe that is the state of play, and I see no reason not to). And those doctors at least may have a reasonable excuse for why they dealt with Prince (they might have been local). I hope I'm wrong, but this is starting to sound like nothing more than the net for more meds being thrown wider. And right at the point we are being told Prince was trying to cover his tracks by avoiding the nearest pharmacies. | |
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beachy said:
I hate it when people lump all drugs together as bad. Taking prescription pills to sleep or manage pain is completely different from taking recreational drugs to party or feel good. Maybe Prince tried X once or twice but he did not party with drugs. He needed prescription pills to function. People who have never been in his circumstances don't understand it because they function normally without medication. IA. I stated before that some, unfortunately, won't bother to differentiate from prescription pain meds, illegal drugs, dependancy, addiction, overdose, etc. That's why I hate this so much. He possibly had a legit reason to use these prescription drugs and got hooked or accidentally overdosed. Now the DEA and FBI are involved. geesh. It gets worse everyday. | |
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beachy said:
Not sure who you were referring to but if me, i just googled rigor mortis and prince and the place I read it came up http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/29/prince-final-days-death-percocet The guardian is a well regarded UK newspaper.
The stuff about the effect of ambien etc on weakened condition to flu I can tell you from my personal experience. I am familiar with ambien and percoset and also very familiar with chronic pain and insomnia. I've used the drugs. I had a near death experience when down with a very bad case of flu. No, not necessarily you but to anyone with things they heard. Thanks for showing where you got your informtion. | |
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That's GREAT news !!!!! | |
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I personally don't think that they should press any charges on the Dr's son. I believe that they got the DEA involved because the son travelled across state lines with narcotics that were not prescribed to him with the intent of giving them to Prince or having the Minneapolis dr give them to him. It's felony and I hope they don't mess this guy's whole future up over this. | |
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. Yes that woudl be so wrong, but a lot of people in law enforcment (esp the DEA) have no morality and it's all about getting more "collars" and throwing as many people in prison as possible...a few joints or pills or a pound of heroin...it's all the same to them. | |
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Tough part is why had he brought them to begin with? - He wasn't a doctor so legally couldn't give them (although morally it doesn't bother me). - The Mpls dr. can't just take pills from someone else and hand them out either. One has to have some sort of federal certification apparently to prescribe them too. If the Mpls dr. didn't have that, that's another strike. - And finally, are we to believe the drug isn't accessible in MN? If the doctor cleared his schedule, wouldn't someone have been calling around if they weren't sure where they were in stock?
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i just want to emphasize to spastic that there are times when you just know cpr is not going to work. the initial police called the ambulance to basically say, no hurry, he is doa. dead on arrival. cpr is just not administered every time a body is found. rigor mortis had set in! if you had been there and rolled him over on his back to begin to administer cpr, you wouldn't have bothered either with the body you saw lying there. at the least you probably would not have been able to actually maneuver his mouth and tongue. I also promise, with as big as fans as we are, if we had seen Prince lying there, with the blood settling to the parts of his body on the floor, with his skin all waxy and purplish, his eyes sunk into his skull, you would have been screaming and in hysterics to. this is like a bad dream for us? imagine them.
I'm sorry to be morbid. But he wasn't lying there looking like Prince any more. When they first found him, i'm sure they didnt even think it was him. He was a very dead cadaver. [Edited 5/4/16 23:00pm] | |
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New update here: http://kstp.com/news/law-...m/4127278/ Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end  | |
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