Here are categories I think exist in the vault, would be curious to know what number you give to each category. Personally I think we are dealing with a lot more than even the 2000 number, even when you apply that to studio stuff alone. Here is why I feel the number is actually much larger, look at the categories below and do some extrapolating.

DEMOS - over 1000

COMPLETED SONGS - over 1000

REMASTERED/REWORKED SONGS - hundreds - ie. 1999 remastaster, etc, Prince has said himself he has completed all songs up to the early 90's.

ALBUMS SEQUENCED AND READY TO GO - we got a nice surprise from the vault with Oui Can Luv, that was done back in 2011 and could have very well never seen the light of day. Up to that point, we never even knew of its existence. Of we all know a handful of others that are ready to go.

PRINCE VERSION OF EVERY SONG HE HAS DONE FOR AN ASSOCIATED PROTEGE ARTIST/BAND (ie. The Time, Sheila E., The Family, etc) - It's well known Prince does the song first himself, then gives it to the artist to learn. Telepathy is a good example of this, as well as Mindbells, Bliss, Spirit, Love Thy Will Be Done, Martika's Kitchen and Don't Say U Love Me.

PRINCE VERSION OF EVERY SONG HE HAS GIVEN TO ANOTHER NON ASSOCIATED PROTEGE ARTIST (ie. Nothing Compares 2 U, Manic Monday, etc)

REMIXES OF PRINCE SONGS - I mean how can a number even be put on that, if there are 2000 songs in the vault, there are probably 6000 - 8000 remixes.

REMIXES OF ASSOCIATED ARTIST SONGS

COVERS OF ATHER ARTISTS - Best Of U/All Along The Watchtower, Still The One,etc. We got a snippet of a few years back of Best Of U on Howard Stern show, bound to be many many more he has recorded over the years. - hundreds is my guess

REHEARSALS - hundreds

SOUNDCHECKS (audio, video or both) - hundreds

LIVE CONCERTS (audio, video or both) - we know he recrods almost all of them - hundreds

AFTERSHOWS - (audio, video or both) - we know he records almost all of them - hundreds

SHORT FILMS - 10+?

MOVIES - 2

MUSIC VIDEOS - rumors of so many videos cut that never saw the light of day



Anything I am missing here for categories?

[Edited 5/7/16 16:53pm]

Different versions of songs.

The last couple years of his life revealed just how many revisions a song went through. The rerecording of Xtraloveable has three different versions available. It's impossible to name all the songs but there's songs with horns, without horns, with strings, without strings, extra verses, guest appearances, raw demos, different takes, remixes. Who knows how many didn't see the light of day.

And, of course, there's that rumor that he rerecorded his entire Warners' discography awhile back. So there could be a weird plastic production version of For You buried somewhere in the vault.

[Edited 5/6/16 19:25pm]

Okay, I'm sure there's lots in there. But I'm not so sure that every song he did for a protege band is necessarily still available with his vocals. I know that most of them were recorded with his vocals, but especially early on (before 1983 or so, when Susan Rogers pushed him to keep everything) I can see that once they'd served their purpose, he might not have kept those tracks. There are other cases (I can't remember which songs) where it's reported that tapes were reused or accidentally erased. Rogers reports gathering tapes from various studios where Prince just left them--and those years before she came on and started organizing include the first two Time albums and Vanity 6's album. A lot of those things are likely just gone. I also see no reason to think that Wally is the only thing he wiped because he was dissatisfied with it. Just because Eric did horns for Dorothy Parker doesn't mean the tape's still around, or that Prince necessarily kept the full orchestrations for the Parade album. He made his choice on what was the final version for those, and back then I don't think he had any sense that keeping that sort of stuff was meaningful. People now are thinking of bonus and deluxe and anniversary editions before they record a note in the studio, but that wasn't (I don't think) his mindset then at all. I strongly suspect a lot of stuff that we wish we had in better quality doesn't exist at all in the vault, but just in the copies that people made and took out of his hands years ago.

Now, once he started recording digitally, he probably kept everything. He knew it mattered and would matter in the future. And I'm sure there's lots of stuff we've never heard of. But I see no way we can reasonably do the math on this. I mean, we just don't know what's there.

Well, except for one thing. I'm pretty sure he re-recorded very little of the Warner catalog. I doubt hat he did anything beyond 1999 for that supposed project.

I could not begin to imagine what was in there

I imagine that there are not enough hours left in all of our lives to hear all that is in that thing.

.

All we can hope for is that he hasn't destroyed any of his art for reasons that may have occurred to him later in life.

Am I the only one to think that probably we fams are over-estimating a little too much what there is effectively in the vault?!?!?!?

BoraBora said:

Am I the only one to think that probably we fams are over-estimating a little too much what there is effectively in the vault?!?!?!?

.

I don't think the fans are over or underestimating it. It seems like we have heard circulating outtakes and know about how many shows he recorded and if he didn't throw anything away, there is a lot in there.

in a book I'm reading it was mentioned that Prince would creatively rehash melodies from previously done work and Wendy and Lisa would remind him that it's already been done. Then he would throw those recordings in the vault

With remixes . . I wouldn't expect remixes of songs that weren't intended for release

[Edited 5/7/16 5:09am]

BoraBora said:

Strive said:

Different versions of songs.

The last couple years of his life revealed just how many revisions a song went through. The rerecording of Xtraloveable has three different versions available. It's impossible to name all the songs but there's songs with horns, without horns, with strings, without strings, extra verses, guest appearances, raw demos, different takes, remixes. Who knows how many didn't see the light of day.

And, of course, there's that rumor that he rerecorded his entire Warners' discography awhile back. So there could be a weird plastic production version of For You buried somewhere in the vault.

[Edited 5/6/16 19:25pm]

Right, good call, forgot all about him re-working all of his songs that he didn't own anymore. I have added it.

[Edited 5/7/16 7:45am]

A thought I have had is - How organised did Prince leave the Vault? It wouldn't at all surprise me if the only person who had full knowledge of its contents, eg. when and why certain material was recorded and the whole context behind it was Prince himself.

It's probably like going semi-blind into an extremely prolific writer or artist's archive after they'd passed and trying to make sense of it all. It must be a mammoth task if there really is as much material as the hype always hinted.

Personally, I am particularly intrigued as to the masses of unreleased material he reputedly recorded using Clare and Brent Fisher's string arrangements in the 80s and also what unknown studio gems he may have created since the leaks dried up from around 1996 to 2016.

Of course, who knows when/ if/ how any of it will come out. Hopefully we will all live long enough to hear all the best stuff!

[Edited 5/7/16 8:54am]

It's hard to imagine how many songs and videos he may have in there. All of the other celeb musicians that have visited there to jam..I've heard he recorded those sessions too. I saw one interview on line saying he had more than just one vault. For right now, it's anybody's guess.

Miles said:

A thought I have had is - How organised did Prince leave the Vault? It wouldn't at all surprise me if the only person who had full knowledge of its contents, eg. when and why certain material was recorded and the whole context behind it was Prince himself.

It's probably like going semi-blind into an extremely prolific writer or artist's archive after they'd passed and trying to make sense of it all. It must be a mammoth task if there really is as much material as the hype always hinted.

We've heard about P sometimes sending engineers into the vault to retrieve this and that, so there at least must be some sort of organization in place...

jaypotton said:

Gonna stick my neck out here and say... most of the stuff in the Vault should never see the light of day, I have hundreds of unreleased songs. Without doubt some are absolute gems BUT a lot of them are awful. Curiosities at best but certainly not worthy of release. Prince was music and lived for music. His leisure time was spent recording or performing (and recording what he performed) but this was often just for fun. can't really speak for what was recorded post Warner Bros as Prince's security seemed to miraculously tighten up once he was out of contract...but I reckon I have the vast majority of unreleased material from the WB years. the general quality of material from the 80s outstrips the material from the 90s for my money (remember he officially released vastly more material during the 90s compared to the 80s suggesting that what was left in the vault was literally the out takes and left overs. Anyway, no doubt there is a good number of quality tracks that can be carefully curated and released that will enhance Prince's legacy but I truly and genuinely hope the rest does not come out as IMHO it could damage his legacy.

I actually get a lot out of listening to demos and experiments and even just clowning around by creative geniuses like Prince. I've enjoyed the same with Beatles stuff. I think it would be a bad thing not to let everything out eventually. Bad for me personally at the very least.

It's like if someone found a Monet sketch for a famous painting. It's still quite a valuable item even if it's sketch to those like me that find value in it. To others it was a worthless painting in an attic or thrift shop that they thought was an imitiation.

jaypotton said:

Gonna stick my neck out here and say... most of the stuff in the Vault should never see the light of day, I have hundreds of unreleased songs. Without doubt some are absolute gems BUT a lot of them are awful. Curiosities at best but certainly not worthy of release. Prince was music and lived for music. His leisure time was spent recording or performing (and recording what he performed) but this was often just for fun. can't really speak for what was recorded post Warner Bros as Prince's security seemed to miraculously tighten up once he was out of contract...but I reckon I have the vast majority of unreleased material from the WB years. the general quality of material from the 80s outstrips the material from the 90s for my money (remember he officially released vastly more material during the 90s compared to the 80s suggesting that what was left in the vault was literally the out takes and left overs. Anyway, no doubt there is a good number of quality tracks that can be carefully curated and released that will enhance Prince's legacy but I truly and genuinely hope the rest does not come out as IMHO it could damage his legacy.

Your position is terrible and misguided

Everything should have an official release. Even if only for the completist in his fanbase

jaypotton said:

Gonna stick my neck out here and say... most of the stuff in the Vault should never see the light of day, I have hundreds of unreleased songs. Without doubt some are absolute gems BUT a lot of them are awful. Curiosities at best but certainly not worthy of release. Prince was music and lived for music. His leisure time was spent recording or performing (and recording what he performed) but this was often just for fun. can't really speak for what was recorded post Warner Bros as Prince's security seemed to miraculously tighten up once he was out of contract...but I reckon I have the vast majority of unreleased material from the WB years. the general quality of material from the 80s outstrips the material from the 90s for my money (remember he officially released vastly more material during the 90s compared to the 80s suggesting that what was left in the vault was literally the out takes and left overs. Anyway, no doubt there is a good number of quality tracks that can be carefully curated and released that will enhance Prince's legacy but I truly and genuinely hope the rest does not come out as IMHO it could damage his legacy.

This is a realistic way of looking at things but perhaps on the pessimistic side.

From all the testimonials on his working habits, it's patently impossible you have "the vast majority" of WB unreleased recordings. You may have the most notable, but not the vast majority if he recorded at the pace his collaborators said he recorded.

That said I agree a lot of it may just be failed experiments and bad ideas (I would expect a few that too closely matched an existing composition by another artist), so not every recording in there is worthy of a commercial release, but I still hope it will be preserved as Prince is very likely to remain a musical master of our era. As such, every little thing he did is already of historical importance.

SPYZFAN1 said:

It's hard to imagine how many songs and videos he may have in there. All of the other celeb musicians that have visited there to jam..I've heard he recorded those sessions too. I saw one interview on line saying he had more than just one vault. For right now, it's anybody's guess.

Yeah, Lenny Kravitz talked about doing all night jam sessions with Prince.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/lenny-kravitz-on-prince-i-feel-like-a-piece-of-me-died-20160427?page=4

Everything you did there was recorded. Sometimes we would just go into the studio and jam with members of my band and members of his band. We'd come up with grooves, just instrumental stuff. He would film it and record it. He called them "mementos" and hand me a cassette when we were done. This is before printing CDs. He'd say, "This is just for you. I have the master tape here and I'm gonna lock it up."

You forget the cover of other artists (Creep, U're still the one, Jimi Hendrix covers etc.) : hundreds

Ceyb *

[Edited 5/7/16 16:32pm]

Ceyb said:

You forget the cover of other artists (Creep, U're still the one, Jimi Hendrix covers etc.) : hundreds

Ceyb *

[Edited 5/7/16 16:32pm]

Thank you, adding that.

leadline said:

Here are categories I think exist in the vault, would be curious to know what number you give to each category. Personally I think we are dealing with a lot more than even the 2000 number, even when you apply that to studio stuff alone. Here is why I feel the number is actually much larger, look at the categories below and do some extrapolating.

DEMOS - over 1000

COMPLETED SONGS - over 1000

REMASTERED/REWORKED SONGS - hundreds - ie. 1999 remastaster, etc, Prince has said himself he has completed all songs up to the early 90's.

ALBUMS SEQUENCED AND READY TO GO - we got a nice surprise from the vault with Oui Can Luv, that was done back in 2011 and could have very well never seen the light of day. Up to that point, we never even knew of its existence. Of we all know a handful of others that are ready to go.

PRINCE VERSION OF EVERY SONG HE HAS DONE FOR AN ASSOCIATED PROTEGE ARTIST/BAND (ie. The Time, Sheila E., The Family, etc) - It's well known Prince does the song first himself, then gives it to the artist to learn. Telepathy is a good example of this, as well as Mindbells, Bliss, Spirit, Love Thy Will Be Done, Martika's Kitchen and Don't Say U Love Me.

PRINCE VERSION OF EVERY SONG HE HAS GIVEN TO ANOTHER NON ASSOCIATED PROTEGE ARTIST (ie. Nothing Compares 2 U, Manic Monday, etc)

REMIXES OF PRINCE SONGS - I mean how can a number even be put on that, if there are 2000 songs in the vault, there are probably 6000 - 8000 remixes.

REMIXES OF ASSOCIATED ARTIST SONGS

COVERS OF ATHER ARTISTS - Best Of U/All Along The Watchtower we got a snippet of a few years back, bound to be many many more he has recorded over the years.

REHEARSALS - hundreds

SOUNDCHECKS (audio, video or both) - hundreds

LIVE CONCERTS (audio, video or both) - we know he recrods almost all of them - hundreds

AFTERSHOWS - (audio, video or both) - we know he records almost all of them - hundreds

SHORT FILMS - 10+?

MOVIES - 2

MUSIC VIDEOS - rumors of so many videos cut that never saw the light of day



Anything I am missing here for categories?

[Edited 5/7/16 6:59am]

[Edited 5/7/16 16:41pm]

Don't you mean the Vaults as there is more than one.

rap said:

leadline said:

Here are categories I think exist in the vault, would be curious to know what number you give to each category. Personally I think we are dealing with a lot more than even the 2000 number, even when you apply that to studio stuff alone. Here is why I feel the number is actually much larger, look at the categories below and do some extrapolating.

DEMOS - over 1000

COMPLETED SONGS - over 1000

REMASTERED/REWORKED SONGS - hundreds - ie. 1999 remastaster, etc, Prince has said himself he has completed all songs up to the early 90's.

ALBUMS SEQUENCED AND READY TO GO - we got a nice surprise from the vault with Oui Can Luv, that was done back in 2011 and could have very well never seen the light of day. Up to that point, we never even knew of its existence. Of we all know a handful of others that are ready to go.

PRINCE VERSION OF EVERY SONG HE HAS DONE FOR AN ASSOCIATED PROTEGE ARTIST/BAND (ie. The Time, Sheila E., The Family, etc) - It's well known Prince does the song first himself, then gives it to the artist to learn. Telepathy is a good example of this, as well as Mindbells, Bliss, Spirit, Love Thy Will Be Done, Martika's Kitchen and Don't Say U Love Me.

PRINCE VERSION OF EVERY SONG HE HAS GIVEN TO ANOTHER NON ASSOCIATED PROTEGE ARTIST (ie. Nothing Compares 2 U, Manic Monday, etc)

REMIXES OF PRINCE SONGS - I mean how can a number even be put on that, if there are 2000 songs in the vault, there are probably 6000 - 8000 remixes.

REMIXES OF ASSOCIATED ARTIST SONGS

COVERS OF ATHER ARTISTS - Best Of U/All Along The Watchtower we got a snippet of a few years back, bound to be many many more he has recorded over the years.

REHEARSALS - hundreds

SOUNDCHECKS (audio, video or both) - hundreds

LIVE CONCERTS (audio, video or both) - we know he recrods almost all of them - hundreds

AFTERSHOWS - (audio, video or both) - we know he records almost all of them - hundreds

SHORT FILMS - 10+?

MOVIES - 2

MUSIC VIDEOS - rumors of so many videos cut that never saw the light of day



Anything I am missing here for categories?

[Edited 5/7/16 6:59am]

[Edited 5/7/16 16:41pm]

Don't you mean the Vaults as there is more than one.

Vault is all encompasing for the purpose of this thread, be it one, or many.

Strive...Lenny showed a cool Facebook shot of the P.P audio cassette last week. Would love to hear what they jammed on. Do you know what P songs Lenny played on (uncredited)? I checked the PrinceVault.com but didn't see anything.

I think there are more vaults within the Large vault for differents aspects of his art.

SPYZFAN1 said:

Strive...Lenny showed a cool Facebook shot of the P.P audio cassette last week. Would love to hear what they jammed on. Do you know what P songs Lenny played on (uncredited)? I checked the PrinceVault.com but didn't see anything.

No idea.

I checked my copy of The Vault and there's nothing mentioned from that time period.

Early November 1993

Prince performs at a private Paisley Park party. Very few details of the set are known, although he did play at least two new songs, "Acknowledge Me" and "Billy Jack Bitch." The show is said to have lasted for three hours.

5 November 1993

Prince records a song entitled "Snow Man" for Nona Gaye at Paisley Park. The song concerns memories of Nona's father, Marvin Gaye, and her childhood in Belgium, where the family lived for a few years in the early '80s. By now, Prince's friendship with Gaye had evolved into romance.

9 November 1993

Prince attends a New York performance by the Joffrey Ballet at the Brooklyn Academy of Music.

10 November 1993

Prince goes to Paris, France. He did some work at Guillaume Tell, including recording "Hide The Bone." The song was later re-recorded with The NPG and released on the Crystal Ball three-CD set. He was spotted dancing at several nightclubs in Paris, including Les Bains Douches. He returned to the US the week of November 22nd.

24 November[am]1993

Prince plays at Paisley Park early in the morning to a small crowd of less than 100 people. He first had the DJ play "Billy Jack Bitch" and another new track. Prince, Sonny Thompson, and Michael Bland played in one of the studios. However, a girl got into fight with a close associate of Prince and had to be evicted from Paisley Park, resulting in the end of the show. An announcement came ovet the PA system, "Go home! Thanks for coming, go home."

27 November[am]1993

Prince puts on another early-morning show in one of the rooms at Paisley Park. Passes were given out at Glam Slam. Prince and the band played "Rockhard In A Funky Place" and "The Ride." This lasted for about 20 minutes, until one of Prince's bodyguards announced that they "didn't want an audience tonight."

and he said there are several valults too!

Thizz said:

Aerogram said: