Career/Commercial-Wise?

The Symbol??
Too much music??
The Quality Control Department going on strike??
Dismissive attitude towards fans??

If you don't conform, you step outside the circle.

So, he conformed in '84??

gainsbourg said:

He conformed until he saw the light.

LaVisHh said:

damned conformity!!!

I'd say '84 was his one of his most conformist years - that and '91.

91' maybe.
Mindflux - what were you saying about my lack of musical knowledge and knowledge of Prince's career before 'PR'

I did respond to that on the thread you started, but if you haven't been to have a look (and going against my loathing for "cross-posting") here you go;

Well, re-read them, because it quite clearly states that Prince did not do everything himself. Sure, its mostly Prince, but that doesn't detract from other people's contributions to the song.

Why do I think you lack in musical knowledge? Well, I said musicianship. Here's just one comment you made that lead me to this "Dr.Fink played what Prince told him to. The fact that he played the solo on 'Head' means nothing. It was Prince's song and chords that fink is playing around with." - that's just not right! First off, Prince did not write that solo lead on Head for Dr Fink - that is Dr Fink himself and the solo he produces comes straight from the soul. It is an awesome lead and there would be no point in Prince getting Fink to play something he could have done himself - there would have been something about Fink's playing and touch that Prince wanted to hear in that solo. So, yeah, it's played over Prince's chords and beats, but that does not diminish the creativity given by Fink in lending such a wonderful solo to the tune. It certainly does not "mean nothing" and that comment is offensive to any musician! Hence, I don't feel you have experience of such things.

So, you play the flute? (must be kinda hard being a fully-fledged songwriter writing songs on that instrument). If you were asked to play with a band and they turned to you and said "In these 32-bars, we want you to come up with a flute solo - just do what you want". Would you then be happy to hear your fellow band members talking about their music and someone says "Love the flute solo" and they reply "Well, its ours, we wrote the song, they're our notes"? - you'd be pretty pissed! Your creative input has just been passed off as either irrelevant or not being your own work - do you see what I'm getting at? But then, credit for who contributed what to a song or album is huge bone of contention in a lot of bands!

The flute thing was a joke

It's something that we're just going to have to disagree on
Take 'I Feel for you' by Chaka Khan. Because the song was so good and the people playing on it had so much respect for Prince; it brought out (imo) one of the best harmonica solos Stevie Wonder ever played and the most amazing production of Arif Mardin's career.
In a lot of good bands, all musicians associated with it, were brought up to new heights. Of course it is construcitve and nurturing to be exposed to other great musicians. Was Ringo Starr a great drummer before the beatles? Would Robbie Krieger have written 'Light my fire' without meeting Jim Morrison.
Even in football, at the end of last season you would have seen all of Arsenal's players being inspired to their full potential.
There are certain songs that you just can't go wrong with.
you could ask almost any half-decent guitar player to put a solo on 'Little Red Corvette' and he would do a good job. It doesn't mean Dez Dickerson was a good guitar player.

gainsbourg said:

Not to get all Bill Clinton on you or anything, but I think it's all a matter of what you consider "wrong".

I think he got a taste of the whole Madonna/MJ/Bruce icon thing, enjoyed it a while, then decided it wasn't worth the compromise (which could also be interpreted as SOMEone getting too big for his purple breeches, but that's another POV altogether, I spose...).

When you look at the careers of folks like Miles, Bowie, Zappa, even George Clinton, Prince is part of a rare musical elite of people who live their art in a way that's a bit too overwhelming for usual mainstream consumption.

Anxiety said:

Well said! APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE

Yes, but i think Prince wants to reach as many people as possible. When he was on BET, he seemed very defensive about his downtrurn in popularity. He fairly inplausibly blamed it on the fact that records stores weren't stocking his albums and that record companies and MTV had it in for him.

gainsbourg said:

yeah, but how many folks in the general public have heard the original version of "i feel for you"?

NettieSmiles said:

standin ovation :applause::applause::applause:

see, we really need an "applause" emoticon here...

Can a woman get pregnant by having sex with an animal??
[This message was edited Thu Mar 27 9:26:20 PST 2003 by gainsbourg]

yeah, but how many folks in the general public have heard the original version of "i feel for you"?
___

This doesn't detract from the quality of Arif and Stevie's work

Sacking of his management?

I really don't know what you mean when you ask what went wrong. Prince has always been controversial and has never appealled to the masses. Many people still refer to him as a fag or gay because of his high voice and the clothes he wears. Most people don't understand his music, they just like to criticize. So, I ask again...what do you really mean by your question??

gainsbourg - you're just not making sense to me! On the other thread, you were berating musicians associated with Prince, especially the Revolution, as it was all Prince's music and they were just playing notes he told them to. In your opinion, this meant that their contributions meant nothing.

Yet, here you are lauding Stevie and Arif for doing something with a song they didn't write!! Please, on which side of the fence do you sit?
[This message was edited Thu Mar 27 9:34:36 PST 2003 by Mindflux]

here're 2 easy ones:

1. telling himself he could direct a movie
2. that DAMNED symbol thing and everything
associated with it

Don´t know why people still think that the namechange
was silly.
IMHO, I think it was one of the coolest things he ever
did. Takes some balls to do that, even to the extent of
risking and sabotaging your career, sticking to what you
believe is right...and he had the nerve to keep that thing
going for how many years ??? Exactly SEVEN ??? One day we
might get a glimpse of what all his numerological stuff is
all about...contractual obligations and seven year cycles
aside.
Coolest person in showbiz, 25 years and counting...

I think he´s just doing his own thing now, in his own , self
created Prince universe, and that´s fine with me. One thing
I would have to add about his lack of "commercial success"
these days is that his music is probably not really accessible, i mean his old style of songwriting was also highly personal, but everybody could still relate to the
everyday situations he described, like Strange Relationship,
When Doves Cry, Purple Rain, The Beautiful Ones etc. or the fun lyrics of tracks like Erotic City or the universal and
positive message in Let´s Go Crazy or other spiritual jams...even with those older songs I did have moments I could not really relate to all the biblical themes but these
days he´s taking things to a whole new level, very exclusive
and esoteric, and his occasional efforts to gain commercial
success again, a la Rave, don´t have the intensity of older
jams and sound too forced, not playful...
TRC on the other hand is, at least musically, one of his best albums. I just have a problem with The Everlasting Now
and some other stuff on it but I think Family Name, Muse, She Loves Me 4 Me, Last December etc. are superb songs.

I think it was all of the above, the name change, etc., Prince seems good at sabotaging every thing he does.

As far as when he conformed,I think he first conformed when he recored 1999.He conformed a lot more when he made Purple Rain. Then he got a little clout and anything he released was going to make money so we have the non conformest era of 85-89 . After he tasted the accidental sucess of Batman he wanted to hold on to it so he conformed a little more and the diamonds and pearls album was made.Things were good he was getting a little more respect and then the name change.basicly Prince has the talent to stay on top but not the motivation. He's too free spirted and that's why we love him.


And for all of the people out there hoping for another purple rain like success to happen. If Prince wanted to record albums with that type of mass appeal he would have already. Stop holding your breathe it ain't happening. Prince's music is to spiritual, to out there, to basically wacky to hold the public's attention to long. We get it but not everyone does.

Sweeny79 said:

YES !!! Exactly how I feel about it. Still, I have been
having this feeling for the last two years that he´s gonna
come out with some music that´s gonna blow all of us away real hard, diehard fans or casual listeners or mainstream, whatever...TRC was just a taste of things to come...
This feeling I have started before the Celebration 2002 and
was only strengthened by what I witnessed there.

Prince always was and still is amazing.

KoolEaze said:

it's not about the name change being silly...
it's about being such a damned hypocrite

oh look at me i'm so spiritual i'm going to change my name

then it's oh look at me my contract with warners is up and i can go back to using my name again

he let all that hype take the place of good music. if you're gonna do something be real about it.

that's respectable.

ps. what's wrong with everlasting now?

The first mistake was adding wack ass rappers to the mix, and rapping himself. Then it was fewding with WB, changing his name, slowing down on marketing, Larry Graham, and ultimately he's just been doing shitty music which is the main problem.

gainsbourg - you're just not making sense to me! On the other thread, you were berating musicians associated with Prince, especially the Revolution, as it was all Prince's music and they were just playing notes he told them to. In your opinion, this meant that their contributions meant nothing.

Yet, here you are lauding Stevie and Arif for doing something with a song they didn't write!! Please, on which side of the fence do you sit
___

I was just making the point. that playing on great songs brings out the best in musicians. It doesn't mean they are particularly talented.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH PRINCE. (Well, that Jehova stuff is a bit much)

IAM said:

So true...

It all went wrong when he pulled down that fake lamp post @ the James Brown concert