smokeverbs said:

BlackandRising said:

You must be a new fan. Taking credit for other people's work is one of the things Prince does best.

This is a shameless lie and you know it, get off this board if you're here for some propaganda purpose! There have been a few recorded cases of this happening. Turning this into a rule is messing up with facts and trying to mess with the young fan's heads.

BartVanHemelen said:

jdcxc said:

BartVanHemelen said: I didn't know Bart was present during the whole songwriting process. There are also plenty of examples where Prince gave credit to musicians who had minimal participation in songs. I doubt that P had NO role in the final version of Slow Love.

.

Sandra St. Victor knows what she's written, but I guess you don't think she's reliable.

.

Also loving your defense of Princey, as if it's a math equation. "Well, Sandra St. Victor got shafted, but Prince's dad got some retirement money, so no harm done."

The Sandra St. Victor incidents are well documented and there's no reason to believe they're a hoax. I'm with Bart on this one, even though as I just posted above a few exceptions don't make a rule.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Sandra St. Victor knows what she's written, but I guess you don't think she's reliable.

.

Also loving your defense of Princey, as if it's a math equation. "Well, Sandra St. Victor got shafted, but Prince's dad got some retirement money, so no harm done."

The Sandra St. Victor incidents are well documented and there's no reason to believe they're a hoax. I'm with Bart on this one, even though as I just posted above a few exceptions don't make a rule.

But was it music or lyrics?

paulludvig said:

databank said:

The Sandra St. Victor incidents are well documented and there's no reason to believe they're a hoax. I'm with Bart on this one, even though as I just posted above a few exceptions don't make a rule.

But was it music or lyrics?

Why can't people care to check Princevault? It's explained black on white over there. She sent him demos and he freely reworked them as he pleased, adding both music and lyrics to each track. Only thing is he didn't ask her for permission before releasing Souls Sanctuary and Eye'll Never Be Another Fool and since she didn't know, she wasn't able to tell him that other people had helped her writing the tracks, and those other people got ripped off their credit and share of royalties (though she did receive credits and royalties). Even worse, Prince omitted St. Victor from the royalties of Van Gogh when he gave it to the band of the same name, so she didn't get anything at all for that one (I suspect he just forgot, I don't see why he would try and rip her off credits or royalties from a minor release by an obscure band, given that the album musn't have sold more than a few thousand copies to this day, and that he probably made little more than a few hundred bucks outta it).

databank said:

paulludvig said:

But was it music or lyrics?

Why can't people care to check Princevault? It's explained black on white over there. She sent him demos and he freely reworked them as he pleased, adding both music and lyrics to each track. Only thing is he didn't ask her for permission before releasing Souls Sanctuary and Eye'll Never Be Another Fool and since she didn't know, she wasn't able to tell him that other people had helped her writing the tracks, and those other people got ripped off their credit and share of royalties (though she did receive credits and royalties). Even worse, Prince omitted St. Victor from the royalties of Van Gogh when he gave it to the band of the same name, so she didn't get anything at all for that one (I suspect he just forgot, I don't see why he would try and rip her off credits or royalties from a minor release by an obscure band, given that the album musn't have sold more than a few thousand copies to this day, and that he probably made little more than a few hundred bucks outta it).

I'm asking because I've heard one of here demos and the music was completely different from the music on Prince's version. Prince's version is basically a new song.

This is the song that Prince turned into "Stone"

http://www.sandrastvictor.com/music/sanctuary/Track%2011.mp3

[Edited 2/10/16 6:30am]

paulludvig said:

databank said:

Why can't people care to check Princevault? It's explained black on white over there. She sent him demos and he freely reworked them as he pleased, adding both music and lyrics to each track. Only thing is he didn't ask her for permission before releasing Souls Sanctuary and Eye'll Never Be Another Fool and since she didn't know, she wasn't able to tell him that other people had helped her writing the tracks, and those other people got ripped off their credit and share of royalties (though she did receive credits and royalties). Even worse, Prince omitted St. Victor from the royalties of Van Gogh when he gave it to the band of the same name, so she didn't get anything at all for that one (I suspect he just forgot, I don't see why he would try and rip her off credits or royalties from a minor release by an obscure band, given that the album musn't have sold more than a few thousand copies to this day, and that he probably made little more than a few hundred bucks outta it).

I'm asking because I've heard one of here demos and the music was completely different from the music on Prince's version. Prince's version is basically a new song.

I heard them too long ago and now they're off her site so I couldn't tell. Prince definitely reworked the tracks a lot if memory serves. Are you sure the music didn't contain any element from the original track from what you've heard? It may have been subtle.

databank said:

paulludvig said:

I'm asking because I've heard one of here demos and the music was completely different from the music on Prince's version. Prince's version is basically a new song.

I heard them too long ago and now they're off her site so I couldn't tell. Prince definitely reworked the tracks a lot if memory serves. Are you sure the music didn't contain any element from the original track from what you've heard? It may have been subtle.

Soul Sanctuary: http://www.sandrastvictor...k%2014.mp3

Stone: http://www.sandrastvictor...k%2011.mp3

[Edited 2/10/16 6:38am]

paulludvig said:

databank said:

I heard them too long ago and now they're off her site so I couldn't tell. Prince definitely reworked the tracks a lot if memory serves. Are you sure the music didn't contain any element from the original track from what you've heard? It may have been subtle.

Soul Sanctuary: http://www.sandrastvictor...k%2014.mp3

Stone: http://www.sandrastvictor...k%2011.mp3

[Edited 2/10/16 6:38am]

They were well hidden to say the least, how did u find them? I indeed don't see any apparant musical similarity between Sanctuary and Soul Sanctuary but as it's a snippet it's not unthinkeable that some musical elements were borrowed from a later part?

databank said:

paulludvig said:

Soul Sanctuary: http://www.sandrastvictor...k%2014.mp3

Stone: http://www.sandrastvictor...k%2011.mp3

[Edited 2/10/16 6:38am]

They were well hidden to say the least, how did u find them? I indeed don't see any apparant musical similarity between Sanctuary and Soul Sanctuary but as it's a snippet it's not unthinkeable that some musical elements were borrowed from a later part?

I googled "sandra st victor sanctuary"

http://www.sandrastvictor.com/music/sanctuary.htm

[Edited 2/10/16 6:53am]

paulludvig said:

databank said:

They were well hidden to say the least, how did u find them? I indeed don't see any apparant musical similarity between Sanctuary and Soul Sanctuary but as it's a snippet it's not unthinkeable that some musical elements were borrowed from a later part?

I googled "sandra st victor sanctuary"

http://www.sandrastvictor.com/music/sanctuary.htm

[Edited 2/10/16 6:53am]

Still, u rock U've unearthed a hidden page from the interwho ^^

The music on Love Is/Van Gogh also has little to do with P's version (but it rocks!).

I guess by "added music and lyrics" Princevault means just that, regardless of how much Prince took off the songs. My bad.

paulludvig said:

databank said:

smokeverbs said:

BlackandRising said:

This is a shameless lie and you know it, get off this board if you're here for some propaganda purpose! There have been a few recorded cases of this happening. Turning this into a rule is messing up with facts and trying to mess with the young fan's heads.

Jesus, databank. Switch to decaf. Twice this week you've told someone to leave the forum. Prince's catalog is littered with contributions and credits left out. I can't believe this has to be explained to you of all people. Forgetaboutit. It's not up to me to coddle the children who might stumble onto this site - how did they find out about Prince anyway, he's not on their youtubes and itunes!

[Edited 2/10/16 12:39pm]

smokeverbs said:

databank said:

This is a shameless lie and you know it, get off this board if you're here for some propaganda purpose! There have been a few recorded cases of this happening. Turning this into a rule is messing up with facts and trying to mess with the young fan's heads.

Jesus, databank. Switch to decaf. Twice this week you've told someone to leave the forum. Prince's catalog is littered with contributions and credits left out. I can't believe this has to be explained to you of all people. Forgetaboutit. It's not up to me to coddle the children who might stumble onto this site - how did they find out about Prince anyway, he's not on their youtubes and itunes!

[Edited 2/10/16 12:39pm]

It's not. I can make you a list of songs where it has been established that he took credit from people and that's about a dozen at the very most. So stop making up shit and I'll stop telling you to go making it up elsewhere. I don't know what's in it for you telling lies on a public forum like this anyway, jeez!

databank said:

smokeverbs said:

Jesus, databank. Switch to decaf. Twice this week you've told someone to leave the forum. Prince's catalog is littered with contributions and credits left out. I can't believe this has to be explained to you of all people. Forgetaboutit. It's not up to me to coddle the children who might stumble onto this site - how did they find out about Prince anyway, he's not on their youtubes and itunes!

[Edited 2/10/16 12:39pm]

It's not. I can make you a list of songs where it has been established that he took credit from people and that's about a dozen at the very most. So stop making up shit and I'll stop telling you to go making it up elsewhere. I don't know what's in it for you telling lies on a public forum like this anyway, jeez!

Really? I doubt this is true. I want to see the list.

funksterr said:

databank said:

It's not. I can make you a list of songs where it has been established that he took credit from people and that's about a dozen at the very most. So stop making up shit and I'll stop telling you to go making it up elsewhere. I don't know what's in it for you telling lies on a public forum like this anyway, jeez!

Really? I doubt this is true. I want to see the list.

I actually made it in a thread not later than last week or 2 weeks ago, with details regarding the circumstances for each track. It was about a dozen songs. I searched but I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure someone can remember which thread it was. I was replying to Bart who was making the same extravagant claim and Bart didn't make any statement contradicting my point because... he couldn't (and you know if he could have he would have).

Of course he and Smokes among others will tell you the list's as long as history itself, only when it comes to documented cases they're just uncapable to back-up their claim with a list of songs... because it doesn't exist! There's no data, nothing, just a urban legend turned into fact by propagandists! The only thing we know is that out of hundreds (maybe a good thousand now?) released songs, about a dozen litigious cases have been documented. A dozen. Period. The fact that you may genuinely believe that there are dozens of documented cases (I will assume u're not a propagandist) shows how harmful those lies are: after they've been repeated over and over for years on this board, lots of people believe them to be true.

I think I will rewrite and save that list and the contextual explainations somewhere so I can copy and paste it everytime someone makes this shameless claim, so the debate is closed once and for all.

[Edited 2/10/16 21:33pm]

Haven't listened to all of the mentioned songs but to me her "Sanctuary" doesn't sound ANYTHING like "Soul Sanctuary".Who knows what was really going on.

Interestingly though, on that "hidden" SSV sanctuary page she shares a little commentary via the little "psst.." popups:

Sanctuary:

"Here’s another one resurrected by The Artist himself. This time he put it on his own CD, “Emancipation”, as ”Soul Sanctuary”. The song was co-written by my friend Johnny “Just Got Paid” Kemp."

I'll never open..:

"This song's title was suggested by Vernon Reid To Me over lunch at Tine Café in NYC, I thought it was off the hook! When my project was shelved, Prince liked this song, and cut it on my girl Chaka's "Come To My House" CD, and changed the title to "I'll Never Be Another Fool." He thought my title was too blunt... Hmmmm didn't he write the song, "Head!!??"

Balance in life is important...

So how about the folks that are making lists of wat Prince didn't write also make a list of songs he did write but didn't take credit for. I think viewing the two side by side would be enlightening and refreshsing since there is always only one sided arguments being made.

Polo1026 said:

Balance in life is important...

So how about the folks that are making lists of wat Prince didn't write also make a list of songs he did write but didn't take credit for. I think viewing the two side by side would be enlightening and refreshsing since there is always only one sided arguments being made.

I agree

databank said:

funksterr said:

Really? I doubt this is true. I want to see the list.

I actually made it in a thread not later than last week or 2 weeks ago, with details regarding the circumstances for each track. It was about a dozen songs. I searched but I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure someone can remember which thread it was. I was replying to Bart who was making the same extravagant claim and Bart didn't make any statement contradicting my point because... he couldn't (and you know if he could have he would have).

Of course he and Smokes among others will tell you the list's as long as history itself, only when it comes to documented cases they're just uncapable to back-up their claim with a list of songs... because it doesn't exist! There's no data, nothing, just a urban legend turned into fact by propagandists! The only thing we know is that out of hundreds (maybe a good thousand now?) released songs, about a dozen litigious cases have been documented. A dozen. Period. The fact that you may genuinely believe that there are dozens of documented cases (I will assume u're not a propagandist) shows how harmful those lies are: after they've been repeated over and over for years on this board, lots of people believe them to be true.

I think I will rewrite and save that list and the contextual explainations somewhere so I can copy and paste it everytime someone makes this shameless claim, so the debate is closed once and for all.

[Edited 2/10/16 21:33pm]

Uh-huh... you claim to be an expert in what color Prince's stool was when he took a dump on the Dirty Mind tourbus back in 1981... but you can't find your list of songs that you allege Prince stole credit for.

BTW, what's up with you using words like 'documented'? You have no proof of anything.

he's given many songs he wrote but didnt take credit for....

funksterr said:

databank said:

I actually made it in a thread not later than last week or 2 weeks ago, with details regarding the circumstances for each track. It was about a dozen songs. I searched but I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure someone can remember which thread it was. I was replying to Bart who was making the same extravagant claim and Bart didn't make any statement contradicting my point because... he couldn't (and you know if he could have he would have).

Of course he and Smokes among others will tell you the list's as long as history itself, only when it comes to documented cases they're just uncapable to back-up their claim with a list of songs... because it doesn't exist! There's no data, nothing, just a urban legend turned into fact by propagandists! The only thing we know is that out of hundreds (maybe a good thousand now?) released songs, about a dozen litigious cases have been documented. A dozen. Period. The fact that you may genuinely believe that there are dozens of documented cases (I will assume u're not a propagandist) shows how harmful those lies are: after they've been repeated over and over for years on this board, lots of people believe them to be true.

I think I will rewrite and save that list and the contextual explainations somewhere so I can copy and paste it everytime someone makes this shameless claim, so the debate is closed once and for all.

[Edited 2/10/16 21:33pm]

Uh-huh... you claim to be an expert in what color Prince's stool was when he took a dump on the Dirty Mind tourbus back in 1981... but you can't find your list of songs that you allege Prince stole credit for.

BTW, what's up with you using words like 'documented'? You have no proof of anything.

I made the list again and gave it its own thread for lollipop revisionnists to find, however the mods deleted it because making such a list may imply Prince commited something illegal by stealing credits and expose the Org to legal threats, which I understand. The list is at your disposal by orgnote if you wish to have it until I get mods clearance to at least post it in this thread.

How about you provide your list of hundred songs Prince stole from others with contextual evidence instead? I'm still waiting for Bart's but at least he doesn't have the nerve to come and accuse me of making up shit (maybe because he, contrarily to you, did his homework).

Is there any point in discussing with u at all? Have u read my posts for all those years? Have I ever been known to make up shit? Are you here to discuss Prince's music or to follow a personal agenda? I may be a little harsh on people sometimes but I don't think anyone could ever accuse me of making up shit, and I stood corrected everytime someone demonstrated something I said was inaccurate.

Documented means evidenced by the research of people who have interviewed collaborators, examined data from studio sessions diaries, or claims of said collaborators in media interviews. People like Per Nilsen, Uptown, Madhouseman and others. Have you ever opened a book about Prince?

People can lie of course, who knows maybe David Z and Mazarati made-up the whole Kiss story as part of a great conspiracy and for all we know Michael Jackson probably composed When Doves Cry. We don't have proof of anything do we?

If we have no proof of anything at all, ever then nothing is true and all theories equal each other. Research is useless. The work of historians is useless. Gathering testimonies and interviewing people is vain. Negationism and history are one and the same. For all we know Stalin never killed a soul and Amercians never stepped on the moon.

If u're here to promote conspiracy theories I have no interest in discussing with you.

[Edited 2/12/16 2:57am]

luvsexy4all said:

he's given many songs he wrote but didnt take credit for....

I'm curious to know what are the songs that he didn't take credit for.Are you referring to songs like "Sugar Walls" and "Manic Monday" where he used a fake name in the credits? Or are there are some other secret hit songs that Prince wrote but the world doesn't know he wrote? For example,there is an old rumor that he secretly wrote "Waterfalls" for TLC.

SoulAlive said:

luvsexy4all said:

he's given many songs he wrote but didnt take credit for....

I'm curious to know what are the songs that he didn't take credit for.Are you referring to songs like "Sugar Walls" and "Manic Monday" where he used a fake name in the credits? Or are there are some other secret hit songs that Prince wrote but the world doesn't know he wrote? For example,there is an old rumor that he secretly wrote "Waterfalls" for TLC.

What is known is that:

.

Prince hid his involvement on dozens of songs he gave to others in the 80's and early 90's, by either crediting his songwriting and musician credits to an imaginary person (Jaimie Starr, Alexander Nevermind, Joey Coco, Paisley Park, Christopher and so on...) or crediting his parts to real people (bandmembers and other musicians involved in the project).

.

Prince credited nearly everything on the albums he released as "Prince And The Revolution" and "Prince and The NPG" as having been "composed, arranged and performed" by him and the whole band while most compositions and instruments were just him. The Lovesexy tour band also was falsely credited for playing everything on every Lovesexy track.

.

Prince demanded not to be credited for playing on a few other artists' albums as well (on top of my head: Madonna, George Clinton and -though this last one is unclear- Macy Gray).

.

Besides songwriting credits, Prince even gave his own royalties to other people on some occasions: Sheila E on Romance 1600; Carmen Electra, Tamar Davis, Bria Valente on their respective projects; and the entirety of the NPG on Gold Nigga and Exodus.

.

The rest (including, as far as I know, Waterfalls) is fanmade gossip.

databank said:

funksterr said:

Uh-huh... you claim to be an expert in what color Prince's stool was when he took a dump on the Dirty Mind tourbus back in 1981... but you can't find your list of songs that you allege Prince stole credit for.

BTW, what's up with you using words like 'documented'? You have no proof of anything.

I made the list again and gave it its own thread for lollipop revisionnists to find, however the mods deleted it because making such a list may imply Prince commited something illegal by stealing credits and expose the Org to legal threats, which I understand. The list is at your disposal by orgnote if you wish to have it until I get mods clearance to at least post it in this thread.

How about you provide your list of hundred songs Prince stole from others with contextual evidence instead? I'm still waiting for Bart's but at least he doesn't have the nerve to come and accuse me of making up shit (maybe because he, contrarily to you, did his homework).

Is there any point in discussing with u at all? Have u read my posts for all those years? Have I ever been known to make up shit? Are you here to discuss Prince's music or to follow a personal agenda? I may be a little harsh on people sometimes but I don't think anyone could ever accuse me of making up shit, and I stood corrected everytime someone demonstrated something I said was inaccurate.

Documented means evidenced by the research of people who have interviewed collaborators, examined data from studio sessions diaries, or claims of said collaborators in media interviews. People like Per Nilsen, Uptown, Madhouseman and others. Have you ever opened a book about Prince?

People can lie of course, who knows maybe David Z and Mazarati made-up the whole Kiss story as part of a great conspiracy and for all we know Michael Jackson probably composed When Doves Cry. We don't have proof of anything do we?

If we have no proof of anything at all, ever then nothing is true and all theories equal each other. Research is useless. The work of historians is useless. Gathering testimonies and interviewing people is vain. Negationism and history are one and the same. For all we know Stalin never killed a soul and Amercians never stepped on the moon.

If u're here to promote conspiracy theories I have no interest in discussing with you.

[Edited 2/12/16 2:57am]

Just name the songs, in your opinion/estimation, that are in question. You don't need to type a novel everytime you post. I didn't say I disagreed or agreed to what you claim. I don't even know what songs you are referencing.

funksterr said:

databank said:

I made the list again and gave it its own thread for lollipop revisionnists to find, however the mods deleted it because making such a list may imply Prince commited something illegal by stealing credits and expose the Org to legal threats, which I understand. The list is at your disposal by orgnote if you wish to have it until I get mods clearance to at least post it in this thread.

How about you provide your list of hundred songs Prince stole from others with contextual evidence instead? I'm still waiting for Bart's but at least he doesn't have the nerve to come and accuse me of making up shit (maybe because he, contrarily to you, did his homework).

Is there any point in discussing with u at all? Have u read my posts for all those years? Have I ever been known to make up shit? Are you here to discuss Prince's music or to follow a personal agenda? I may be a little harsh on people sometimes but I don't think anyone could ever accuse me of making up shit, and I stood corrected everytime someone demonstrated something I said was inaccurate.

Documented means evidenced by the research of people who have interviewed collaborators, examined data from studio sessions diaries, or claims of said collaborators in media interviews. People like Per Nilsen, Uptown, Madhouseman and others. Have you ever opened a book about Prince?

People can lie of course, who knows maybe David Z and Mazarati made-up the whole Kiss story as part of a great conspiracy and for all we know Michael Jackson probably composed When Doves Cry. We don't have proof of anything do we?

If we have no proof of anything at all, ever then nothing is true and all theories equal each other. Research is useless. The work of historians is useless. Gathering testimonies and interviewing people is vain. Negationism and history are one and the same. For all we know Stalin never killed a soul and Amercians never stepped on the moon.

If u're here to promote conspiracy theories I have no interest in discussing with you.

[Edited 2/12/16 2:57am]

Just name the songs, in your opinion/estimation, that are in question. It's not "my opinion/estimation", it's based on research and testimonies by other people. Any other person who's read the same sources I have could come-up with that list, there's zero original research by me in that case. You don't need to type a novel everytime you post. I do when people call me a liar. I didn't say I disagreed or agreed to what you claim. Who are you trying to fool here?! Reread what you wrote on this thread and the Josh thread yesterday! My "fake database", huh? I don't even know what songs you are referencing. Well that says it all doesn't it? I'm sure lots of people here do because they actually happened to have read the same books and interviews I have. As I said I'm just quoting other people's research and inteviews.

I've orgnoted the deleted thread list to you. When I know for sure the info comes from a specific former collaborator I've specified it. When I don't it means the info comes from Uptown/Nilsen/The Vault/Princevault. My list isn't by definition comprehensive but thougth I may have forgotten a few documented cases, there's no way I've forgotten dozens of them. Now do whatever you want with it but let's call it a day, I'm through your games and manipulations. Thank you, have a nice weekend.

[Edited 2/12/16 15:49pm]

databank said:

funksterr said:

Just name the songs, in your opinion/estimation, that are in question. It's not "my opinion/estimation", it's based on research and testimonies by other people. Any other person who's read the same sources I have could come-up with that list, there's zero original research by me in that case. You don't need to type a novel everytime you post. I do when people call me a liar. I didn't say I disagreed or agreed to what you claim. Who are you trying to fool here?! Reread what you wrote on this thread and the Josh thread yesterday! My "fake database", huh? I don't even know what songs you are referencing. Well that says it all doesn't it? I'm sure lots of people here do because they actually happened to have read the same books and interviews I have. As I said I'm just quoting other people's research and inteviews.

I've orgnoted the deleted thread list to you. When I know for sure the info comes from a specific former collaborator I've specified it. When I don't it means the info comes from Uptown/Nilsen/The Vault/Princevault. My list isn't by definition comprehensive but thougth I may have forgotten a few documented cases, there's no way I've forgotten dozens of them. Now do whatever you want with it but let's call it a day, I'm through your games and manipulations. Thank you, have a nice weekend.

[Edited 2/12/16 15:49pm]

I read your list, and it's exactly what I thought it was... something someone claimed in an interview somewhere. Not 'FACT', but a one-sided allegation. Prince said recently that a lot of those claims were false. I believe he is probably telling the truth.

You didn't cite examples of Prince stealing credit for whole songs, but instead examples of nit-picky things like who sang background, programmed a beat, or played a bassline here or there. Your Andre Cymone info is just flat out wrong. Andre Cymone has given interviews in recent years saying Prince never stole anything from him. Yes, he worked out a jam session with Lisa, Dez and Bobby that was similar to something Prince released. But Prince added enough to that song to make it into something new and better that what AC had. Same goes for JJ.

I'm not impressed.

I expected to see the songs Prince was sued over, but you didn't mention those. That's what I mean about your data being inaccurate and mostly relying on gossip and assumption.

databank said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

Why can't people care to check Princevault? It's explained black on white over there. She sent him demos and he freely reworked them as he pleased, adding both music and lyrics to each track. Only thing is he didn't ask her for permission before releasing Souls Sanctuary and Eye'll Never Be Another Fool and since she didn't know, she wasn't able to tell him that other people had helped her writing the tracks, and those other people got ripped off their credit and share of royalties (though she did receive credits and royalties). Even worse, Prince omitted St. Victor from the royalties of Van Gogh when he gave it to the band of the same name, so she didn't get anything at all for that one (I suspect he just forgot, I don't see why he would try and rip her off credits or royalties from a minor release by an obscure band, given that the album musn't have sold more than a few thousand copies to this day, and that he probably made little more than a few hundred bucks outta it).

-/- But she did get credit for the songs!!! So where is the theft? As far as the other people he has no way of knowing if they were really involved with writing the songs? Also why don't people copyright the songs. If music was copyright and the others writers were listed they could go after Prince at seems like their beef is with Sandra.

She got credits and royalties on SS and INGBAF but her 2 co-songwriters didn't because P didn't ask before using the songs and she wasn't able to inform him about co-composing credits (i.e. P didn't blatantly steal any credit, he just didn't know, but he lacked the courtesy to even inform her upfront that her songs would be adapted and used on records). As to why don't people copyright songs... you'd be surprised if I told you that some songs Prince released online weren't even copyrighted at all, he just didn't bother. Same is true about most of the unreleased songs we have on bootlegs (I remember seeing all this with bewilderment back when P was with ASCAP and you could check his songs on the ACE online database). I guess people usually don't bother unless they feel there's a reason to, Sandra and her co-composers probably didn't feel there was a need at this point I guess. For example David Henry Hwang said once that he was pleasantly surprised to see Solo (that he'd wrote the lyrics of) on Come and to receive proper credit and royalties when Prince could have ripped him off and Hwang had no proof whatsoever of his involvement. + it's complicated because P didn't use the St. Victor songs as such but elements of said songs upon which he build new tracks under new titles.

Now she didn't receive any credit/royalties at all on Van Gogh, despite P using her lyrics. Not that she'd have made millions out of the sales of that Van Gogh (band) album or the later NPGMC release, but still... Now did Prince do this on purpose or was this an ommission, IDK. But she didn't get her share.

[Edited 2/12/16 19:59pm]

funksterr said:

databank said:

I've orgnoted the deleted thread list to you. When I know for sure the info comes from a specific former collaborator I've specified it. When I don't it means the info comes from Uptown/Nilsen/The Vault/Princevault. My list isn't by definition comprehensive but thougth I may have forgotten a few documented cases, there's no way I've forgotten dozens of them. Now do whatever you want with it but let's call it a day, I'm through your games and manipulations. Thank you, have a nice weekend.

[Edited 2/12/16 15:49pm]

I read your list, and it's exactly what I thought it was... something someone claimed in an interview somewhere. Not 'FACT', but a one-sided allegation. Prince said recently that a lot of those claims were false. I believe he is probably telling the truth.

You didn't cite examples of Prince stealing credit for whole songs, but instead examples of nit-picky things like who sang background, programmed a beat, or played a bassline here or there. Your Andre Cymone info is just flat out wrong. Andre Cymone has given interviews in recent years saying Prince never stole anything from him. Yes, he worked out a jam session with Lisa, Dez and Bobby that was similar to something Prince released. But Prince added enough to that song to make it into something new and better that what AC had. Same goes for JJ.

I'm not impressed.

I expected to see the songs Prince was sued over, but you didn't mention those. That's what I mean about your data being inaccurate and mostly relying on gossip and assumption.

The hilarious thing is that I now realize that we are basically pleading for the same thing!

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While I claim that the info I've sent you seems reliable by every possible account and is the best we have so far (however I had no clue about the recent Cymone statement that P didn't steal anything from him. Do u have a link to that? I'd really like to read what he has to say regarding the Do Me Baby controversy), it involves 15 songs out of hundreds and my whole point from the begining was to debunk the BS some people are tryin' to spread here about Prince building a whole career out of stealing songs by the dozens (and since u never said otherwise, everything indicated u were among them while u were actually with me on that one!).

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I've never claimed the data I submitted to you to be the fruit of my own research even though I maintain there's a difference between research/interviews of the people who attended an event and mere gossip or hearsay (again u're decredibilizing half of recorded human history by making such an amalgam)!

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I also still maintain u've been playing mindgames and lacked decency in the way you've contradicted yourself everytime it would appear to make you say the opposite of what u'd just said in order to make me look like the bad guy. But regardless I find this totally ridiculous that we are having a row over something we, in the end, agree on, that is if u're not here to play mindgames.

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And I stand by everything regarding the Josh thread where you have shown incredible laziness when it came to backing your statements up. No offense, u just have.

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Now since the misunderstanding seems solved I say we cut the crap and stop this ridiculous row and both move on and stop arguing. I want facts. U want facts. We disagree on what constitutes fact. OK. As long as you're not making-up shit out of the blue or trying to make shit into facts, that's fine by me.

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Peace.