was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

A common misunderstanding is that Dream Factory would have had a band-oriented sound but the (not final) last known config contained lots of solo Prince tracks, that ended-up on SOTT in the end. There were also a lot of solo Prince songs on the 3 Revolution albums. I think W&L's background vocals, with their unique harmonies, give this impression: because people hear W&L they feel it's a Revolution track but it wasn't always the case, they would add vocals and that's it. Not to say Dream Factory would have been SOTT: Prince would have kept more tracks with the girls and there may have been a couple of band recordings. Not to say either that the band, and particularly the girls, had zero influence: they had a certain influence and W&L added a certain trademark sound to P's tracks, but P's music was always mostly P's music. All My dreams and Wonderful Ass, though containing a certain level of involvement by W&L, were -as far as we know- Prince compositions and -again as far as we know- primarily feature Prince alone with the girls adding vocals and (at least for sure on WA) guitar and keys, and even though W&L reworked WA (and made it a much better track) in 86, they mostly re-edited it more than changing it significantly.

In the end The Revolution rarely worked, as u say, "as a collective". In most cases Prince would compose a song, record most of it, and ask certain bandmembers to add overdubs or rearrange/remix it a bit. Another case is songs that were born/developped during rehearsals and occasionaly contained strong input by a bandmember or another, but Prince wasd still the leading force as both a composer and arranger. This is not the same as a band composing songs together and working on its arrangement on a democratic level. Prince And The Revolution was never a democratic unit, they were people hired by Prince to do what he told them to do and he would unltimately decide which of their contributions and ideas to keep or not.

Now I know lots of people will come with conterexamples and say The Revolution was responsible for the glory of the 83-86 era, but this is not the impression I got from the books I've read and past bandmembers interviews.

I get the exact same train of thought when I hear "Wonderful Ass". If you think about it, though, even a song like "Eye No" has a bit of that wild feel. So, it is best to accept that SOTT turned out the way it was destined to.

Nor does it implie he did not write all himself. We don't know, maybe we don't give Prince enough credit. Maybe some give to much credit too the others in the Revolution, only two people i think helped bring the best out of Prince and that was Wendy and Lisa. As 3 people together that made great songs , but others like to think it was only wendy and lisa and dismiss Prince's involvement. Which is just opinion.

according 2 Susan Rogers, Wonderful Ass was created during the Purple Rain sessions

BrownMark

... and with that came my own bass style
once I developed my own bass style that fit with what we were doing it was all over
and I think a lot of the Revolution sound from say 80/83 onward I mean we, you could hear those types of bass rhythms , rhythmic pattern of bass playing, very percussion driven, that I had developed with the help of Prince, dude himself is an amazing bass player, and um I was able to mold the style together and it became a part of the Revolution

Yeah um It was a lot of fun, a lot of people like to say did you collaborated with Prince in the studio
I don't say we collaborated as much as the Revolution tried to live out his dream, we got into the mind of Prince we learned what it was he was trying to accomplish. So I think that was more the collaboration, us learning 'what is it you're looking for?'
and once we could see his direction, we would jam so much, we would sometimes jam from 10 o'clock in the morning to 10 o'clock at night. I remember sometimes eating lunch while I'm still playing. I would walk to the lunchroom with my bass because it was on a wireless rig and then I would go into the refrigerator grab food and come back and I'd still be playing with one hand while eating. That's how intense we were, and I think from that we helped Prince create not only a style and energy but it was almost like a freight train, it was so heavy that even when other musicians would come and stand up with us they didn't even know where to begin, it was very difficult for them to hang with us because the style that we developed was so powerful and was so rhythmic that uh they didn't know how to jam with us. It was a very interesting time period, but I think I think a lot of music came from that type of grooving and jamming together

Parade Music:Brown Mark – electric bass, percussion, keyboards, vocals,

TrevorAyer said:

databank said:

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

A common misunderstanding is that Dream Factory would have had a band-oriented sound but the (not final) last known config contained lots of solo Prince tracks, that ended-up on SOTT in the end. There were also a lot of solo Prince songs on the 3 Revolution albums. I think W&L's background vocals, with their unique harmonies, give this impression: because people hear W&L they feel it's a Revolution track but it wasn't always the case, they would add vocals and that's it. Not to say Dream Factory would have been SOTT: Prince would have kept more tracks with the girls and there may have been a couple of band recordings. Not to say either that the band, and particularly the girls, had zero influence: they had a certain influence and W&L added a certain trademark sound to P's tracks, but P's music was always mostly P's music. All My dreams and Wonderful Ass, though containing a certain level of involvement by W&L, were -as far as we know- Prince compositions and -again as far as we know- primarily feature Prince alone with the girls adding vocals and (at least for sure on WA) guitar and keys, and even though W&L reworked WA (and made it a much better track) in 86, they mostly re-edited it more than changing it significantly.

In the end The Revolution rarely worked, as u say, "as a collective". In most cases Prince would compose a song, record most of it, and ask certain bandmembers to add overdubs or rearrange/remix it a bit. Another case is songs that were born/developped during rehearsals and occasionaly contained strong input by a bandmember or another, but Prince wasd still the leading force as both a composer and arranger. This is not the same as a band composing songs together and working on its arrangement on a democratic level. Prince And The Revolution was never a democratic unit, they were people hired by Prince to do what he told them to do and he would unltimately decide which of their contributions and ideas to keep or not.

Now I know lots of people will come with conterexamples and say The Revolution was responsible for the glory of the 83-86 era, but this is not the impression I got from the books I've read and past bandmembers interviews.

from my understanding of things read from the people in the recording studio etc A lot of music was worked out with Prince and the band like the Screams of Passion rehearsal. And then Prince took stuff and made it into a song. So think that 'rehearsal all night long' session working out sounds and songs was very important to the glory of the 83-86 yrs
.
And of course he had the songs he did all on his own.

.

I mean up until recently we all thought Prince played everything on the Time albums. But to find out that Morris played drums on a lot of the tracks, Jesse played guitar on some songs and drums on If the Kid Can't Make You Come

TrevorAyer said:

Sorry but a lot of music lyrics riffs and songs came out of numerous line ups jamming and working out arrangements live and in studio. The fact that p recorded the parts himself in no way implies he wrote any of it himself .. He likely wrote a few great tunes himself but not nearly as often as is credited or casually believed. P best work came out of a group process

songs like Mountains and Power Fantastic were not even given creative credit to Lisa Coleman
or co-writing on Sometimes It Snows in April
In A Large Room With No Light was also a W & L composition

TrevorAyer said:

Sorry but a lot of music lyrics riffs and songs came out of numerous line ups jamming and working out arrangements live and in studio. The fact that p recorded the parts himself in no way implies he wrote any of it himself .. He likely wrote a few great tunes himself but not nearly as often as is credited or casually believed. P best work came out of a group process

yep

Andre Cymone, who played bass in [Prince]'s band, had been very involved in THE TIME project from the beginning. He was also assembling a girl group, called "The Girls", and saw the side projects as an opportunity to supplement his relatively small income from being a band member only. Andre claimed that he came up with many of the ideas for THE TIME before being muscled out of the project, wich led into falling out with [Prince]. The relationship between Andre Cymone and [Prince] had been deteriorating for some time. Andre felt, that he didn't receive enough credits for his input into [Prince]'s music and stage act, even accusing [Prince] of knowing stealing his ideas. He decided to leave [Prince]'s band and embark a solo-career. He accepted to participate in the upcoming european tour, but he left the band immediately afterwards.

Lisa Coleman later also reported, that [Prince] pulled stunts like turning home studio jams with [Morris Day] and her into material for THE TIME and another side-project, Vanity 6

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

a lot of songs on SOTT are very stripped:SOTT Forever In My Life It the Cross

I think a lot of them did lack the depth/fullness that songs with the full band or some band members added.
I wonder why he would pull songs like In A Large Room With No Light, Power Fantatic from the configuration of Dream Factory

I think some people were too much a part of the song to include it,

OldFriends4Sale said:

TrevorAyer said:

Sorry but a lot of music lyrics riffs and songs came out of numerous line ups jamming and working out arrangements live and in studio. The fact that p recorded the parts himself in no way implies he wrote any of it himself .. He likely wrote a few great tunes himself but not nearly as often as is credited or casually believed. P best work came out of a group process

songs like Mountains and Power Fantastic were not even given creative credit to Lisa Coleman
or co-writing on Sometimes It Snows in April
In A Large Room With No Light was also a W & L composition

True for PF, and since there was no credits or even ASCAP registration for IALRWNL it's hard to know whether credit would have been given. But when it comes to Mountains and Sometimes, if I'm not mistaken W&L got their ASCAP and royalties, and it can't be said they didn't receive any credit since all tracks were officially "composed by prince And The Revolution". Prince tended to give more credits away than he stole back then.

Some very late (and suspect) revisionism going on here.

Prince's genius was the impetus for all the collaborative work that went on.

Without his drive, direction and vision, not much would have been accomplished. The jamming was sort of a musical brainstorming. Of course! There are people here that are still attached to the utopia of Uptown -- and now that they are more frustrated as fans, they are playing down the fact that Prince was an incredible catalyst. Wendy and Lisa, Morris, etc. made wonderful contributions, but it was the idea to begin with and it would not have happened without Prince's phenomenal talent, as his collaborators were are at best talented --UNDER HIS HELM -- not exceptional musicians.

Now we talk about credit not being given but you know what? Everyone knew the whole enterprise rested on Prince's image as a one man band genius. It wasn't just an image, it was real, but when people made contributions, they rode on that aura. Collaborators were complicit, they knew there was no Minneapolis Sound without Prince, the multiinstrumentalist super-performer-singer. So the situation was that whatever contribution people made, they knew they had to help maintain the image that was fuelling the whole movement. They were not simply being cheated, they went along with it for the sake of their own career -- which would have gone nowhere without Prince.

[Edited 11/19/15 15:32pm]

Aerogram said:

Some very late (and suspect) revisionism going on here.

Prince's genius was the impetus for all the collaborative work that went on.

Without his drive, direction and vision, not much would have been accomplished. The jamming was sort of a musical brainstorming. Of course! There are people here that are still attached to the utopia of Uptown -- and now that they are more frustrated as fans, they are playing down the fact that Prince was an incredible catalyst. Wendy and Lisa, Morris, etc. made wonderful contributions, but it was the idea to begin with and it would not have happened without Prince's phenomenal talent, as his collaborators were are at best talented --UNDER HIS HELM -- not exceptional musicians.

Now we talk about credit not being given but you know what? Everyone knew the whole enterprise rested on Prince's image as a one man band genius. It wasn't just an image, it was real, but when people made contributions, they rode on that aura. Collaborators were complicit, they knew there was no Minneapolis Sound without Prince, the multiinstrumentalist super-performer-singer. So the situation was that whatever contribution people made, they knew they had to help maintain the image that was fuelling the whole movement. They were not simply being cheated, they went along with it for the sake of their own career -- which would have gone nowhere without Prince.

[Edited 11/19/15 15:32pm]

Choose a side of the argument. Either Prince had a lot of help or he didn't.

imagine all the music in those jam sessions hrs and hrs...unreleased

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

Some very late (and suspect) revisionism going on here.

Prince's genius was the impetus for all the collaborative work that went on.

Without his drive, direction and vision, not much would have been accomplished. The jamming was sort of a musical brainstorming. Of course! There are people here that are still attached to the utopia of Uptown -- and now that they are more frustrated as fans, they are playing down the fact that Prince was an incredible catalyst. Wendy and Lisa, Morris, etc. made wonderful contributions, but it was the idea to begin with and it would not have happened without Prince's phenomenal talent, as his collaborators were are at best talented --UNDER HIS HELM -- not exceptional musicians.

Now we talk about credit not being given but you know what? Everyone knew the whole enterprise rested on Prince's image as a one man band genius. It wasn't just an image, it was real, but when people made contributions, they rode on that aura. Collaborators were complicit, they knew there was no Minneapolis Sound without Prince, the multiinstrumentalist super-performer-singer. So the situation was that whatever contribution people made, they knew they had to help maintain the image that was fuelling the whole movement. They were not simply being cheated, they went along with it for the sake of their own career -- which would have gone nowhere without Prince.

[Edited 11/19/15 15:32pm]

Choose a side of the argument. Either Prince had a lot of help or he didn't.

Prince helped a lot of people and they contributed too -- after being chosen, drilled and inspired.

luvsexy4all said:

imagine all the music in those jam sessions hrs and hrs...unreleased

I know, I know

Aerogram said:

Some very late (and suspect) revisionism going on here.

Prince's genius was the impetus for all the collaborative work that went on.

Without his drive, direction and vision, not much would have been accomplished. The jamming was sort of a musical brainstorming. Of course! There are people here that are still attached to the utopia of Uptown -- and now that they are more frustrated as fans, they are playing down the fact that Prince was an incredible catalyst. Wendy and Lisa, Morris, etc. made wonderful contributions, but it was the idea to begin with and it would not have happened without Prince's phenomenal talent, as his collaborators were are at best talented --UNDER HIS HELM -- not exceptional musicians.

Now we talk about credit not being given but you know what? Everyone knew the whole enterprise rested on Prince's image as a one man band genius. It wasn't just an image, it was real, but when people made contributions, they rode on that aura. Collaborators were complicit, they knew there was no Minneapolis Sound without Prince, the multiinstrumentalist super-performer-singer. So the situation was that whatever contribution people made, they knew they had to help maintain the image that was fuelling the whole movement. They were not simply being cheated, they went along with it for the sake of their own career -- which would have gone nowhere without Prince.

[Edited 11/19/15 15:32pm]

I don't think anyone is 'playing down the fact that Prince was an incredible catalyst' I think most people are a fans of the golden years fully acknowledge that

I'm aware that people can pull out a half-dozen to a dozen songs with possible "co-write" arguments for them by assorted band members, but once you get past a small core of songs, they get pretty flimsy. Much of the time what is discussed by the people actually there sounds like the sort of thing musicians do in the studio all the time, a bit of arranging, working out a particular fill or riff, but hardly "composing the song", without even a thought of deserving composition credit. Yes, those things can make a record, and there are bands out there that have decided to treat that as deserving of composition credit--but most of the time that's not the case. And, besides the cases where bandmembers did make contributions, Prince almost certainly often wrote with the band (or bands) in mind--considerations about who was going to be playing the songs live probably influenced how he wrote and recorded, even if no one else had any direct input. Again, that's the case with many performers. So, in effect, there's a Revolution-ness to Revolution-era songs, and subsequent eras also have a certain sound to them, connected to and inspired by the players Prince had at the time.

But Prince has never been someone who really collaborates as a major part of his practice--yes, the Revolution era has a sound, but a lot of it is, as databank suggested, is a matter of the instruments he had at his disposal--in this case, primarily Wendy and Lisa. They made sounds he couldn't make (primarily vocals, honestly), and were more capable than he was of handling some aspects of broadening the band's sound--taking care of some pre-Fischer orchestrations, for example. And a few times they wrote pieces that he then built on. But while they're might be some collaborative moments, mainly Wendy and Lisa were clearly working for him, helping him achieve his musical ends. It was almost like he had a really great new synthesizer--and it's like that with a lot of people as they move through his circle. He can make different sounds using them, but that's different from collaborating.

I like Wendy and Lisa (with Prince and on their own) but the idea of Prince working alone in the studio is closer to the truth than the idea of him actually being a member of a collaborative Revolution. Such a band situation might have been a remarkable thing, but it didn't happen.

I would advise people to listen to some of those soundboard jam sessions and rehearsals that the band was having during that time period. I have heard DOZENS of rehearsals and jam sessions and I can tell you I haven't one time heard any voice other than Prince giving direction for what to play or calling chord changes or introducing melodies or lyrics for new songs. For new songs or even jams Prince is directing EVERYTHING, no one else takes the lead or offers suggestions, Prince suggests synth sounds or tells BrownMark pluck his bass lighter etc no other voice is heard and that is significantly important to note because none of this music is a collaboration of musical colors by multple sources to created this sound. It is Prince directing these musical colors and he allows certain people like Wendy and Lisa or Morris or Jesse J to contribute but the whole of it is him and him alone. Also, think about the make up of the revolution logically. Prince had just lost Andre and Dez, two band members who wanted to be band leaders on their own and it led to a lot of ill feelings and turmoil. The Rebels project was a disaster that yielded a few nice demo's but it went no where. Prince wanted a group he could rely on as constants and that he could direct with HIS vision and they would execute it without grumbling and complaining. That is a big reason why Prince became super successful, the Revolution were extentions of him not placeholders biding time until they leave and start their own band. The Revolution was sold out to and completely into Prince's vision and music. When Dez and Andre were in the band Prince couldn't wake up and summon them to rehearse or flesh out a new song on a whim at any time of day. A lot of that jam sessions and rehearsals for hours and hours was just Prince being so free and happy to have the ability to do it when he wanted to because his band members were all in and they wanted to be great for him. Now what happened behind closed studio doors we may never know but the sentiment that band members were creating basslines and melodies and lyrics during rehearsals is very unlikely. I remember a rumor that Lisa wrote 'the Bird' in a rehearsal, I just happened to end up in a studio some years later with a group of musicians and questlove was in there and he played a rehearsal for the 'the bird' when prince introduced the song to the band. Prince directed everyone's part and all the chord changes and he already had the lyrics but by the end the song was funky as hell because everyone listened and did their jobs at a high level. The Revolution was a great band but that doesn't mean they were Prince's secret sauce.

[Edited 11/20/15 1:20am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Aerogram said:

funksterr said:

Choose a side of the argument. Either Prince had a lot of help or he didn't.

Prince helped a lot of people and they contributed too -- after being chosen, drilled and inspired.

That's all you to say. I don't get why some Prince fans can't give credit where it's due to others along the way.

NorthC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I know, I know

90% of it would be very boring. Rehearsals aren't meant to be listened to. That's why they're called rehearsals. [Edited 11/20/15 1:33am]

I would prefer to be the judge of that lol

Desire, Screams of Passion Erotic City/Feline rehearsals... if there are more of them like that and there probably are... I wanna hear em

Billy's Sunglasses I love, it could have been shorter, but there are some interesting things happing in that piece, especially when we hear Strange Relationships

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

Prince helped a lot of people and they contributed too -- after being chosen, drilled and inspired.

That's all you to say. I don't get why some Prince fans can't give credit where it's due to others along the way.

I would say Inspired, Choosen, Reflection

Polo1026 said:

I would advise people to listen to some of those soundboard jam sessions and rehearsals that the band was having during that time period. I have heard DOZENS of rehearsals and jam sessions and I can tell you I haven't one time heard any voice other than Prince giving direction for what to play or calling chord changes or introducing melodies or lyrics for new songs. For new songs or even jams Prince is directing EVERYTHING, no one else takes the lead or offers suggestions, Prince suggests synth sounds or tells BrownMark pluck his bass lighter etc no other voice is heard and that is significantly important to note because none of this music is a collaboration of musical colors by multple sources to created this sound. It is Prince directing these musical colors and he allows certain people like Wendy and Lisa or Morris or Jesse J to contribute but the whole of it is him and him alone. Also, think about the make up of the revolution logically. Prince had just lost Andre and Dez, two band members who wanted to be band leaders on their own and it led to a lot of ill feelings and turmoil. The Rebels project was a disaster that yielded a few nice demo's but it went no where. Prince wanted a group he could rely on as constants and that he could direct with HIS vision and they would execute it without grumbling and complaining. That is a big reason why Prince became super successful, the Revolution were extentions of him not placeholders biding time until they leave and start their own band. The Revolution was sold out to and completely into Prince's vision and music. When Dez and Andre were in the band Prince couldn't wake up and summon them to rehearse or flesh out a new song on a whim at any time of day. A lot of that jam sessions and rehearsals for hours and hours was just Prince being so free and happy to have the ability to do it when he wanted to because his band members were all in and they wanted to be great for him. Now what happened behind closed studio doors we may never know but the sentiment that band members were creating basslines and melodies and lyrics during rehearsals is very unlikely. I remember a rumor that Lisa wrote 'the Bird' in a rehearsal, I just happened to end up in a studio some years later with a group of musicians and questlove was in there and he played a rehearsal for the 'the bird' when prince introduced the song to the band. Prince directed everyone's part and all the chord changes and he already had the lyrics but by the end the song was funky as hell because everyone listened and did their jobs at a high level. The Revolution was a great band but that doesn't mean they were Prince's secret sauce.

[Edited 11/20/15 1:20am]

These are very good points! Take the rehearsal where Prince introduces Screams of Passion. Some people claim this is an example of Prince and The Revolution writing a song together. Nothing of the kind. Prince tells everyone what to do. Which chords to play and how to play them. Tempo, feel, everything. He's just using the band to get an immediate feel of how well his ideas work, rather than having to put down one instrument at the time or keeping it all together in his mind.

paulludvig said:

Polo1026 said:

I would advise people to listen to some of those soundboard jam sessions and rehearsals that the band was having during that time period. I have heard DOZENS of rehearsals and jam sessions and I can tell you I haven't one time heard any voice other than Prince giving direction for what to play or calling chord changes or introducing melodies or lyrics for new songs. For new songs or even jams Prince is directing EVERYTHING, no one else takes the lead or offers suggestions, Prince suggests synth sounds or tells BrownMark pluck his bass lighter etc no other voice is heard and that is significantly important to note because none of this music is a collaboration of musical colors by multple sources to created this sound. It is Prince directing these musical colors and he allows certain people like Wendy and Lisa or Morris or Jesse J to contribute but the whole of it is him and him alone. Also, think about the make up of the revolution logically. Prince had just lost Andre and Dez, two band members who wanted to be band leaders on their own and it led to a lot of ill feelings and turmoil. The Rebels project was a disaster that yielded a few nice demo's but it went no where. Prince wanted a group he could rely on as constants and that he could direct with HIS vision and they would execute it without grumbling and complaining. That is a big reason why Prince became super successful, the Revolution were extentions of him not placeholders biding time until they leave and start their own band. The Revolution was sold out to and completely into Prince's vision and music. When Dez and Andre were in the band Prince couldn't wake up and summon them to rehearse or flesh out a new song on a whim at any time of day. A lot of that jam sessions and rehearsals for hours and hours was just Prince being so free and happy to have the ability to do it when he wanted to because his band members were all in and they wanted to be great for him. Now what happened behind closed studio doors we may never know but the sentiment that band members were creating basslines and melodies and lyrics during rehearsals is very unlikely. I remember a rumor that Lisa wrote 'the Bird' in a rehearsal, I just happened to end up in a studio some years later with a group of musicians and questlove was in there and he played a rehearsal for the 'the bird' when prince introduced the song to the band. Prince directed everyone's part and all the chord changes and he already had the lyrics but by the end the song was funky as hell because everyone listened and did their jobs at a high level. The Revolution was a great band but that doesn't mean they were Prince's secret sauce.

[Edited 11/20/15 1:20am]

These are very good points! Take the rehearsal where Prince introduces Screams of Passion. Some people claim this is an example of Prince and The Revolution writing a song together. Nothing of the kind. Prince tells everyone what to do. Which chords to play and how to play them. Tempo, feel, everything. He's just using the band to get an immediate feel of how well his ideas work, rather than having to put down one instrument at the time or keeping it all together in his mind.

I've never read anyone suggest Screams of Passion is an example of Prince & the Revolution writing a song together...
But they are a part of the creative flow and results...

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

Prince helped a lot of people and they contributed too -- after being chosen, drilled and inspired.

That's all you to say. I don't get why some Prince fans can't give credit where it's due to others along the way.

I can't tell u what's behind such a reaction from the fans....

But I can tell u that from my years of interviewing and talking to various people associated with Prince or who have been in P's bands, the man's at times over-the-top reputation for being the ultimate one-man-band has a lot of credence....

This is not the musings of some fanboy/girl plopping down well worn stories of Prince's legendary studio work in the studio...

It's actual conversations I've had with Wendy, Lisa, Fink, Dez, ect....Of course Prince's soaked up some of the sounds that came out of some jam sessions....But it was a rarity when Prince wasn't totally 100 percent in control when it came to the production and songwriting of his material....He was dictating the notes and chords and placement to band members (especially on the Purple Rain, ATWIAD, and Parade albums) during rehearsals and demos....

My favorite story is when Fink described to me the first time he heard "The Beautiful Ones"....It gives u an idea just how great Prince was in the studio as a one man unit.....

Fink: "When I first heard "The Beautiful Ones" my first thought was, "How the hell am I going to pull that off?" Because back then Prince was running those Oberheim synthesizers in the studio. He was timing all these crazy portamento slides that are happening throughout that song, especially towards the end. On the old Oberheim keyboards there were eight voices to them. You could only play eight notes at once. And then you could have the portamento set-up and play one note and it would slide and then you could time the next one and it would do a slide as you are holding another note down. You could have different notes playing different portamento rates.

So when you hear "The Beautiful Ones" you are listening to all these notes sliding up to each other at different timings.

In order to accomplish this Prince had to turn the volume down; touch those notes; and get them into place. And then within those chords you had to time them to do the slides individually. Remember, this wasn't sequenced. This was all done live, and I used to pull that off every night on stage. But it was a very tricky, technical process. "The Beautiful Ones" is my favorite song on Purple Rain because it's orchestrated in such a unique way. Prince created this other world using synthesizers, guitars, pianos, lots of digital delay, and reverb. And the vocals are just ridiculous."

[Edited 11/20/15 6:18am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

These are very good points! Take the rehearsal where Prince introduces Screams of Passion. Some people claim this is an example of Prince and The Revolution writing a song together. Nothing of the kind. Prince tells everyone what to do. Which chords to play and how to play them. Tempo, feel, everything. He's just using the band to get an immediate feel of how well his ideas work, rather than having to put down one instrument at the time or keeping it all together in his mind.

I've never read anyone suggest Screams of Passion is an example of Prince & the Revolution writing a song together...
But they are a part of the creative flow and results...

They were in the room with Prince, if that's what you mean.