The more loyal and fanatic the fan the more you should reject his iron-fist control of the material.

Oh I know that he has the LEGAL RIGHT and an army of lawyers but THIS STUFF BELONGS TO ART AND THE WORLD--it is (and I am sure I am preaching to the choir here) TOO IMPORTANT to sit in a vault and rot because its creator is vain or greedy or feels paternal about it.

My life would have been LESS INTERESTING (by a fair bit) if I had not heard Small Club or Dance to the Desert Groove or Montreaux 2008 or on and on.

they have inspired me to CARE about playing guitar and been a constant background theme in my Man Cave.

I dont care who he is, if he doesn't understand that contraband=premium=MORE DEMAND then the hell with him.

His lawyers love it I have no doubt.

You want total control?

Play only for yourself.

I remember someone once advocating we all meet in Minneapolis and storm Paisley Park, and free the music from the Vault. One of the funnier threads of the last 15 years.

NorthC said:

You're a bit like those people who got mad at Bob Dylan in the 1960s because he didn't sing protest songs anymore and said things like "Free Bob Dylan From Himself". "Bob Dylan's Brain Belongs to the People". [Edited 11/17/15 10:48am]

Only to the degree that everything is a "bit" like everything else.

I am not insisting that every song sounds like "Joy in Repetition," only that I get to hear the ones that he has done that already do.

If he performs them he loses a degree of control over them.

We can argue (and compete) over to what degree that should be, but giving Him absolute control is about one thing and one thing only: MONEY.

He was brought up poor and that shaped his personality and his art, fair enough.

But truly great art and music is ALWAYS from poverty.

If it was business--just $--Dylan would have kept singing protest songs.

Picasso used to delight in going down to the beach in Spain and drawing huge cartoons of minotaurs and nymphs in the sand as the tide was coming in and then laugh hysterically as the Japanese photographers frantically took pictures.

RodeoSchro said:

warning2all said:

The vault is the Property of Prince Rogers Nelson, and you will not hear it's contents in your lifetime, I am convinced. It's time to forget about it & move on

Frankly, I'm becoming convinced THERE IS NO VAULT.

again with this nonsense....what is desert in the groove?

Working from my own personal memory but the last time we got vault material in it original form was Crystal Ball. And that was the result of a spat between Prince and WB. Crystal Ball is literally an official bootleg because WB had the right to release most of it, but Prince released it independently without their permission, resulting in WB threatening Prince with a lawsuit. That was like 1997- 1998? My point here is that Prince has invested 20 years into a feud with WB about the vault material. The sticking point in the past was that Warner's was due a 35 year window of control over vault material beginning the day it is released just as it had over the original albums. Prince could not stomach this, so he waited them out and hoped for a better deal.

That's why 2014 seemed so exciting. The better deal had apparantley come.

Only.... WB announced outtakes and Prince declined to give them any.

In 2015 TIDAL announced outtakes and Prince hasn't given them any.

Some say he can, but it just seems to me like Prince can't release the outtakes without WB getting another 35 year window of control, which means the rest of Prince's lifetime more than likely. Prince has pretty much no incentive to ever release them. Hence the comment, iirc, Prince made in an interview this year about the outtakes "Somebody will release them, but it won't be me",

[Edited 11/17/15 19:29pm]

funksterr said:

Some say he can, but it just seems to me like Prince can't release the outtakes without WB getting another 35 year window of control, which means the rest of Prince's lifetime more than likely. Prince has pretty much no incentive to ever release them. Hence the comment, iirc, Prince made in an interview this year about the outtakes "Somebody will release them, but it won't be me",

[Edited 11/17/15 19:29pm]

That would be very sad indeed.

But perhaps he can make it available to listen to exclusively in Paisley Park?

Or... for the first time in his life he could HAVE it bootlegged. Then critics and fans

could rave about it, but WB wouldn't make money.

warning2all said:

A box set of unreleased 80's material would sell.

warning2all said:

a lot of sensible remarks.

Yes and then ...no. If the first album of Bros can be released in a deluxe format, and what was it - all the singles of Mel & Kim indivually packaged or something, then we can have a Prince boxset.

If anything, such a boxset could rekindle interest.

The first live album didn't sell because it consisted mainly of Jehova Witness tracks and a half-baked jam album. Not interesting for the normal public, and a major disappointment for fans who own all those great live bootlegs.

And as I said on another thread: I doubt he will be able to release another album with a (major) record company, seeing as the music doesn't sell (and rightly so) and he has no interest in promoting it.
He'll be available on Tidal for as long as Tidal remains operational.

Luckily we've got the Justin Biebers of the world to cite Prince as a major influence.... Otherwise he'd already be forgotten.

Yes, he was even mentioned on prime time Dutch news: Prince cancelled his tour.

It's strange unless you remember: they equate Prince with Purple Rain. He was a major star once.

Isn't there now a sticky for nonsense?

jstar69 said:

warning2all said:

The vault is the Property of Prince Rogers Nelson, and you will not hear it's contents in your lifetime, I am convinced. It's time to forget about it & move on

Exactly - and if u want to blame something blame religion!!!!

Nah! Prince was likely having a Prince-fit one day and probably just took a match to it.

Pentacle said:

The first live album didn't sell because it consisted mainly of Jehova Witness tracks and a half-baked jam album. Not interesting for the normal public, and a major disappointment for fans who own all those great live bootlegs.

Also, it wasn't promoted. iirc, there was less promotion for One Nite Alone Live than for HitNRun or AOA/PlE. Many casual Prince fans that weren't tuned in to NPGMC or internet fansites were unaware the set was released. Plus, they didn't make an abundance of copies. This set wasn't easy to find in stores when it was new and when you did find it there might be 1 or 2 copies. I believe this was a for the fans release that was not intended/expected to be a blockbuster release.

databank said:

Isn't there now a sticky for nonsense?

No, that is for 'what is your Prince line of the moment'.

Stimpy said:

The more loyal and fanatic the fan the more you should reject his iron-fist control of the material.

Oh I know that he has the LEGAL RIGHT and an army of lawyers but THIS STUFF BELONGS TO ART AND THE WORLD--it is (and I am sure I am preaching to the choir here) TOO IMPORTANT to sit in a vault and rot because its creator is vain or greedy or feels paternal about it.

My life would have been LESS INTERESTING (by a fair bit) if I had not heard Small Club or Dance to the Desert Groove or Montreaux 2008 or on and on.

they have inspired me to CARE about playing guitar and been a constant background theme in my Man Cave.

I dont care who he is, if he doesn't understand that contraband=premium=MORE DEMAND then the hell with him.

His lawyers love it I have no doubt.

You want total control?

Play only for yourself.

He plays the music in his vault for HIMSELF. He's released albums and performed thousands of concerts for YOU. He is the creator of this art and ultimately he has the right to decide what to do with what he's created. It doesn't belong to the world or fans in any logical argument. You think for one second that YOU, who had nothing to do with the creation of this music, somehow love these songs MORE than the man that created the music? What kind of music colonialism is that?

djThunderfunk said:

Pentacle said:

The first live album didn't sell because it consisted mainly of Jehova Witness tracks and a half-baked jam album. Not interesting for the normal public, and a major disappointment for fans who own all those great live bootlegs.

Also, it wasn't promoted. iirc, there was less promotion for One Nite Alone Live than for HitNRun or AOA/PlE. Many casual Prince fans that weren't tuned in to NPGMC or internet fansites were unaware the set was released. Plus, they didn't make an abundance of copies. This set wasn't easy to find in stores when it was new and when you did find it there might be 1 or 2 copies. I believe this was a for the fans release that was not intended/expected to be a blockbuster release.

Yes. The general public wasn't even aware of the album's religious content (which, by the way is no more or less absurd than Lovesexy's religious content). Regarding promotion and availability IDK about the US but I remember Europe. The set wasn't publicized, was released independently, was sold as an import for 50€ (a LOT of money for 3 CD's), followed a studio album that itself was a low profile indie release, all at a time when Prince's commercial success and mainstream medias exposure was at its lowest. And all the fans who owned the bootlegs bought it anyway so I don't see how their disappointment could have impacted sales. Anyway Prince didn't intend the boxset to be a hit, or he'd have released a single CD of generic sounding, 3 minutes long live versions of his 80's hits. it was aimed at fans and hipsters, and both fans and hipsters bought it. I'm tired of reading bad faith nonsense on this board

Polo1026 said:

He plays the music in his vault for HIMSELF. He's released albums and performed thousands of concerts for YOU. He is the creator of this art and ultimately he has the right to decide what to do with what he's created. It doesn't belong to the world or fans in any logical argument. You think for one second that YOU, who had nothing to do with the creation of this music, somehow love these songs MORE than the man that created the music? What kind of music colonialism is that?

Yes, yes, yes.

But ask yourself one thing: would you rather have HitnRun after HitnRun or Vault releases from the 1980-1995/6 period?

Pentacle said:

Polo1026 said:

He plays the music in his vault for HIMSELF. He's released albums and performed thousands of concerts for YOU. He is the creator of this art and ultimately he has the right to decide what to do with what he's created. It doesn't belong to the world or fans in any logical argument. You think for one second that YOU, who had nothing to do with the creation of this music, somehow love these songs MORE than the man that created the music? What kind of music colonialism is that?

Yes, yes, yes.

But ask yourself one thing: would you rather have HitnRun after HitnRun or Vault releases from the 1980-1995/6 period?

I want both, having to choose is an absurd option to me.

databank said:

Yes. The general public wasn't even aware of the album's religious content (which, by the way is no more or less absurd than Lovesexy's religious content). Regarding promotion and availability IDK about the US but I remember Europe. The set wasn't publicized, was released independently, was sold as an import for 50€ (a LOT of money for 3 CD's), followed a studio album that itself was a low profile indie release, all at a time when Prince's commercial success and mainstream medias exposure was at its lowest. And all the fans who owned the bootlegs bought it anyway so I don't see how their disappointment could have impacted sales. Anyway Prince didn't intend the boxset to be a hit, or he'd have released a single CD of generic sounding, 3 minutes long live versions of his 80's hits. it was aimed at fans and hipsters, and both fans and hipsters bought it. I'm tired of reading bad faith nonsense on this board

It was crap, except for 3 or 4 songs.

Also, 'Lovesexy' contained no anti-Jew or anti-woman nonsense. Nothing about 'would you rather be a follower or a leader', which ruined a perfectly fine groove.

databank said:

Pentacle said:

Yes, yes, yes.

But ask yourself one thing: would you rather have HitnRun after HitnRun or Vault releases from the 1980-1995/6 period?

I want both, having to choose is an absurd option to me.

Yes, but the discussion is focussing on: Prince has made the music, so he has every right to do or not do what he wants with it.

Sure, this is true, but then I ask the staunch defenders of this position.... see above.

Pentacle said:

databank said:

I want both, having to choose is an absurd option to me.

Yes, but the discussion is focussing on: Prince has made the music, so he has every right to do or not do what he wants with it.

Sure, this is true, but then I ask the staunch defenders of this position.... see above.

The premise of the thread is nonsense and it should have been locked.

Pentacle said:

databank said:

Yes. The general public wasn't even aware of the album's religious content (which, by the way is no more or less absurd than Lovesexy's religious content). Regarding promotion and availability IDK about the US but I remember Europe. The set wasn't publicized, was released independently, was sold as an import for 50€ (a LOT of money for 3 CD's), followed a studio album that itself was a low profile indie release, all at a time when Prince's commercial success and mainstream medias exposure was at its lowest. And all the fans who owned the bootlegs bought it anyway so I don't see how their disappointment could have impacted sales. Anyway Prince didn't intend the boxset to be a hit, or he'd have released a single CD of generic sounding, 3 minutes long live versions of his 80's hits. it was aimed at fans and hipsters, and both fans and hipsters bought it. I'm tired of reading bad faith nonsense on this board

It was crap, except for 3 or 4 songs.

Also, 'Lovesexy' contained no anti-Jew or anti-woman nonsense. Nothing about 'would you rather be a follower or a leader', which ruined a perfectly fine groove.

Again, the general audience had zero idea of those lyrics being on the album, it's not like it was a big contrroversy at the time outside of the Org and other fan communities. I do not say the lyrics are not of a nature to offend certain people but saying it had anything to do with sales is bad faith and you are aware of it. On the other hand, Lovesexy's cryptic religious message antagonized a lot of people at a time when critics and commentators used to write a lot about Prince and his albums were bought by casual listeners who were WTF when listening to Lovesexy's lyrics.

Saying "it was crap, except for 3 or 4 songs" is unnecessary. If you are not going to write a fully constructed analysis of the album and explain thouroughly the reasons why you believe it is crap, you are just wasting the reader's time.

purplethunder3121 said:

Is that trooper in the front drunk?