bobgeorge77 said:

So great to hear these tracks...like a lot of people mentioned, I have never really been to excited about D&P with the exception of Gett Off and Insatiable, and Thunder. (Upon later attempts to listen, I have been appreciative of Live 4 Love, and I have really tried to like the album...but it hasn't been easy...). That being said, I am totally into this Live 4 Love version...that's my jam Love the vocal ease, lightness and confidence... his voice is so smooth on this track...it has been on repeated listen...I honestly haven't explored too much else yet..but do really love the extra verses of Insatiable.....

Just an aside... I love that the Org exists and I enjoy checking in daily to get the views and opinions of everyone...I am in isolation (from other Prince fans) in my little corner of the world and I greatly appreciate the community...I have been a Prince fan since 1982 and think I know a lot about Prince and his music, but I am often (happily) humbled by the insight and knowledge of my fellow org'ers and have been turned on to so much great music that I have missed or slept on.....thanks so much everyone!!!

You live in Australia as well??

bobgeorge77 said:

So great to hear these tracks...like a lot of people mentioned, I have never really been to excited about D&P with the exception of Gett Off and Insatiable, and Thunder. (Upon later attempts to listen, I have been appreciative of Live 4 Love, and I have really tried to like the album...but it hasn't been easy...). That being said, I am totally into this Live 4 Love version...that's my jam Love the vocal ease, lightness and confidence... his voice is so smooth on this track...it has been on repeated listen...I honestly haven't explored too much else yet..but do really love the extra verses of Insatiable.....

Just an aside... I love that the Org exists and I enjoy checking in daily to get the views and opinions of everyone...I am in isolation (from other Prince fans) in my little corner of the world and I greatly appreciate the community...I have been a Prince fan since 1982 and think I know a lot about Prince and his music, but I am often (happily) humbled by the insight and knowledge of my fellow org'ers and have been turned on to so much great music that I have missed or slept on.....thanks so much everyone!!!

I know what you mean. I don't know anyone who's into the music like I am. That's why I love the Org.

paulludvig said:

Forever in My Life is a pretty straight forward song. I really don't think there's so much of a difference. This early configuration of D%P sounds more like the Prince we know from the late 80's. The official version of D&P is the real departure. [Edited 10/29/15 9:03am]

Sure, but I'd compare Forever to Walk Don't Walk, both with arrangements exquisitely suitable to the simple songs.

A song like Tick Tick Bang on GB is bare bones, but it's also finished (at least to me). Songs like Strollin', Willng And Able and Money Don't Matter 2 Night, they need that fuller (band) approach - and all the elements are already in place on this version of D&P. Strollin' is exactly the same, I think.

databank said:

ufoclub said:

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

I think 24 years later there's a nostalgia factor and also maybe a bit of a confusion between a fan's interest for what a work in progress reveals about the tracks and a genuine appreciation of a polished, finished work of art. If Prince had delivered D&P exactly as it was on this first configuration, it's very likely that critics and fans alike would have had been outraged at this collection of barebone demos.

.

It's still a pretty rubbish album, it's simply lacking one of the major points of criticism, which was its overproduction. There's simply less to dislike.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

I think 24 years later there's a nostalgia factor and also maybe a bit of a confusion between a fan's interest for what a work in progress reveals about the tracks and a genuine appreciation of a polished, finished work of art. If Prince had delivered D&P exactly as it was on this first configuration, it's very likely that critics and fans alike would have had been outraged at this collection of barebone demos.

.

It's still a pretty rubbish album, it's simply lacking one of the major points of criticism, which was its overproduction. There's simply less to dislike.

To be honest, I never really understood those overproduction accusations, D&P or otherwise

databank said:

To be honest, I never really understood those overproduction accusations, D&P or otherwise

.

WTF!?

Even when you hear 'demo' versions versus the real thing?

BartVanHemelen said:

udo said:

databank said:

To be honest, I never really understood those overproduction accusations, D&P or otherwise

.

WTF!?

Even when you hear 'demo' versions versus the real thing?

In the case of D&P, save maybe Horny pony I definitely think the released versions are superior to those early cuts. However I'm open to different opinions: Michael Kopplemann, who recorded the whole thing, said that Prince ruined an absolutely brilliant album by overproducing the earlier mixes that were in his opinion vastly superior, and the guy knows what he's talking about (he shows with Ingrid how incredibly talented he was AND he was a witness to P's creative process for several years), but given that certain tracks have yet another "intermediary" version of them between this and the final release (the Uncut Diamonds versions and maybe others that we don't have), I ain't sure at which point Kopplemann felt P went too far, but I suspect it may have been later than right after November 1990.

Same with all the Come/TGE tracks: I prefer the final released version of each and everyone of them to their Glam Slam Ulysses and other earlier counterparts.

One case where I would agree is all those horns and organs on some C&D tracks, namely The Same December/Right The Wrong/Zannalee, which IMHO would have been better left with only bass/drums/guitar and a couple of sound effects here and there (as in the title track, I Like It There and Dinner With Dolores). Another example would be Something In The Water, while very poetic I believe the unreleased version ruins the cold, mechanical atmosphere of the released cut, and it's that cold atmosphere that makes all the genius of it. Same again with The Dance, the 3121 version is gorgeous but doesn't match the minimalist version from TCI, because its minimalist, colder atmosphere is way more cohesive with, and more efficient to convey the emotional intensity of the lyrics and melody.

I really LOVE minimalist electrofunk but in 90% cases, when we have spare earlier cuts circulating vs. a more produced released version, I prefer the "finished" version, I just totally understand why prince would add or replace certain elements. I mean I know lots of people worship the guitar version of Gold but Gold is an anthem not a R.E.M. song, and I believe all the added synths are gorgeous and make it way more powerful when it comes to fulfilling its original purpose. Same with Endoprhinmachine or Shhh: the final versions sound much more agressive/powerful to me thanks to their heavy sound. And I have explained above how I feel about D&P, Willing &Able or Insatiable.

In the end I guess it's a matter of taste, too, so I'm not denying anyone's legitimacy in thinking otherwise, but when keeping in mind that the esthetic choices a musician makes are related to the INTENTION, MEANING and MOOD a song is trying to convey, I usually find Prince's decisions efficient in fulfilling that purpose, i.e. serving the intended intention, meaning and mood of the song better.

databank said:

Weither it's the original configuration or the actual released one... It was plainly Prince desperate for a another blockbuster hit, and he got it. More tailored to the POP charts and younger audience, the musical depth of this album is even overshadowed by the less commercial Love Symbol album released a year later...

While this album does have some good songs, Insatiable is the standout for me, overall I feel it's an average album at best.

feeluupp said:

Doozer said:

feeluupp said:

Weither it's the original configuration or the actual released one... It was plainly Prince desperate for a another blockbuster hit, and he got it. More tailored to the POP charts and younger audience, the musical depth of this album is even overshadowed by the less commercial Love Symbol album released a year later...

While this album does have some good songs, Insatiable is the standout for me, overall I feel it's an average album at best.

. I think I can agree overall with this - it's an average Prince album, but certainly not a bad one. What lifts it up more for me is the sustained effort behind it. An early surprise single and maxi single in Gett Off, solid choices for followup singles in Cream (accompanied by at worst an interesting maxi single) and Diamomds and Pearls, videos that were of high production value at the time, and a great late night performance on Arsenio. The album contains an undeniable turd in Jughead, and we can say "Prince was desperate for a hit album," but there was at least a method and sustained attention paid to the madness.

"madness" ---lol

Doozer said:

feeluupp said:

Weither it's the original configuration or the actual released one... It was plainly Prince desperate for a another blockbuster hit, and he got it. More tailored to the POP charts and younger audience, the musical depth of this album is even overshadowed by the less commercial Love Symbol album released a year later...

While this album does have some good songs, Insatiable is the standout for me, overall I feel it's an average album at best.

. I think I can agree overall with this - it's an average Prince album, but certainly not a bad one. What lifts it up more for me is the sustained effort behind it. An early surprise single and maxi single in Gett Off, solid choices for followup singles in Cream (accompanied by at worst an interesting maxi single) and Diamomds and Pearls, videos that were of high production value at the time, and a great late night performance on Arsenio. The album contains an undeniable turd in Jughead, and we can say "Prince was desperate for a hit album," but there was at least a method and sustained attention paid to the madness.

The madness sure paid off... With the hiring of Frank DiLeo, the numerous T.V. appearences and promo, and award shows... It became Prince's 2nd biggest selling album ever, almost selling 7M worldwide.

databank said:

dodger said:

djThunderfunk said: wait till databank sees it

I'm gonna rhum and raisin

Horny Pony is super weak. Gangsta Glam, wow.

2freaky4church1 said:

Horny Pony is super weak. Gangsta Glam, wow.

Gangsta Glam? Are you still talkin about this demo leak?

ufoclub said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Horny Pony is super weak. Gangsta Glam, wow.

Gangsta Glam? Are you still talkin about this demo leak?

2freaky likes to go off the rails I mean just look at his pic, yowza!

Maybe now people will be able to hear that the bassline for Daddy Pop is directly lifted from Eye No. (only difference seems to be a key change)

Which itself was a slight mutation of Rock Steady by Aretha..

2freaky4church1 said:

Horny Pony is super weak. Gangsta Glam, wow.

Gangster Glam is old and not on this..

I have always liked Horny Pony (the original). A "fun song" imo...

MIRvmn said:

I hope I can find this

feeluupp said:

The madness sure paid off... With the hiring of Frank DiLeo, the numerous T.V. appearences and promo, and award shows... It became Prince's 2nd biggest selling album ever, almost selling 7M worldwide.

.

7M worldwide is a really pathetic number considering that he had to dumb down his music, spent an extraordinary time in the studio (and thus spent a lot of money), went on a massive world tour (including the very controversial policy where in Europe he announced a ton of dates and then cancelled those ones where the concert didn't sell out on the first day), etc.

.

D&P is the album where you saw the first critical blowback, with for instance Oor (Dutch mag that always paid tons of attention to Prince) blasting the CD.

Halfway in. Digging Prince as his own background choir on "Willing and Able"! "Insatiable" up next. Turning the lights off

[Edited 12/13/15 19:02pm]

callimnate said:

IstenSzek said:

wow, that would be very interesting to hear

x 2

+ 1

dm3857 said:

callimnate said:

x 2

+ 1

...joins the whistlin' gang.

Even though I can't whistle. Bastards.

*feeble blowing*

I'm so out of touch with Bootlegs these days! No idea where people get them from anymore!!

But I remember bad quality versions of these extra tracks from back in the day.

I never liked the album particularly, although enjoyed the live shows. Horny Pony, School Yard, best left as outtakes IMO.

BartVanHemelen said:

feeluupp said:

The madness sure paid off... With the hiring of Frank DiLeo, the numerous T.V. appearences and promo, and award shows... It became Prince's 2nd biggest selling album ever, almost selling 7M worldwide.

.

7M worldwide is a really pathetic number considering that he had to dumb down his music, spent an extraordinary time in the studio (and thus spent a lot of money), went on a massive world tour (including the very controversial policy where in Europe he announced a ton of dates and then cancelled those ones where the concert didn't sell out on the first day), etc.

.

D&P is the album where you saw the first critical blowback, with for instance Oor (Dutch mag that always paid tons of attention to Prince) blasting the CD.

7M in sales is not a "really pathetic number" under any conditions, no matter how hard you'd want it to be the case.

novabrkr said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

7M worldwide is a really pathetic number considering that he had to dumb down his music, spent an extraordinary time in the studio (and thus spent a lot of money), went on a massive world tour (including the very controversial policy where in Europe he announced a ton of dates and then cancelled those ones where the concert didn't sell out on the first day), etc.

.

D&P is the album where you saw the first critical blowback, with for instance Oor (Dutch mag that always paid tons of attention to Prince) blasting the CD.

7M in sales is not a "really pathetic number" under any conditions, no matter how hard you'd want it to be the case.

.

Depends on the perspective.

Check ths list at https://en.wikipedia.org/...ing_albums for reference.

Yeah, for a Pop Icon who is playing in his own league, musically, his sales are beyond shit.

Wolfie87 said:

Yeah, for a Pop Icon who is playing in his own league, musically, his sales are beyond shit.

dont u think his point is that the sales dont match the quality..especially whats selling these days