Who knew 'Horny Pony' was actually good?


This musicianship got buried in the final mix?!
Crazy.

RumAndRaisin said:

I like to imagine Prince is the one behind these leaks.

You should give a trigger warning before making such statements. Such speculations is a pet peeve around these parts...

i wish he'd have kept |something funky this house come| on the album
instead of |jughead|. i know it's not great either but i like it's energy
those drums are wicked

RumAndRaisin said:

I like to imagine Prince is the one behind these leaks.

In the end he always is, he recorded those songs.

bashraka said:

Tommy Barberella didn't join the New Power Generation until January 1991 for the Rock In Rio gig when Prince replaced Matt Fink for Barberella for having prior commitments to play the festival in Brazil. So my question is, Who is playing the keyboards on this version of "Live 4 Love" because on the Diamonds And Pearls album, Prince namechecks Barberella to play the synth solo. Also, did Prince on the close to the outro say that the fighter pilots' name was Rick James on 'Live 4 Love"?

nope, he sings "my name has been changed" not "my name is rick james"

jasontate said:

Militant said:

This.

This is absolutely fantastic.

I prefer this to the released version.

Me too. P is definitely at his best when things are raw and un muddled. Some of this is genius that you just can't hear on the commercial release. I wish more of his stuff was produced this way. Horny Pony

I would be interested in a similar treatent of The Symbol Album.

djThunderfunk said:

All the improvisation at the end of Daddy Pop is great to hear on a studio track. It matches the live performance on the Arsenio Hall show -

.

"What's my name...what's my name??!?!"

.

I watched that performance so many times that I was disappointed when I picked up the album and it wasn't part of the song. It was right around the moment when Prince opened the piano to release a bunch of balloons and nearly slammed his had in it when the piano cover came crashing down quickly.

[Edited 10/28/15 12:00pm]

dodger said:

djThunderfunk said:

You should give a trigger warning before making such statements. Such speculations is a pet peeve around these parts...

wait till databank sees it

I'm gonna rhum and raisin

IstenSzek said:

bashraka said:

Tommy Barberella didn't join the New Power Generation until January 1991 for the Rock In Rio gig when Prince replaced Matt Fink for Barberella for having prior commitments to play the festival in Brazil. So my question is, Who is playing the keyboards on this version of "Live 4 Love" because on the Diamonds And Pearls album, Prince namechecks Barberella to play the synth solo. Also, did Prince on the close to the outro say that the fighter pilots' name was Rick James on 'Live 4 Love"?

nope, he sings "my name has been changed" not "my name is rick james"

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

ufoclub said:

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

Give me their name and number and I'll make sure they never post again!!!

P's over-production has killed MANY a great albums and songs.!

I like it

ufoclub said:

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

That's the thing with Prince, he has such variety that there will always be people for and against anything he does.

VelvetKittyKat said:

Who knew 'Horny Pony' was actually good?


This musicianship got buried in the final mix?!
Crazy.

I alwsy liked Horny Pony

ufoclub said:

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

I think 24 years later there's a nostalgia factor and also maybe a bit of a confusion between a fan's interest for what a work in progress reveals about the tracks and a genuine appreciation of a polished, finished work of art. If Prince had delivered D&P exactly as it was on this first configuration, it's very likely that critics and fans alike would have had been outraged at this collection of barebone demos.

databank said:

databank said:

ufoclub said:

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

The faliure of 20Ten or MPLS wasn't either of them having more or less production, it was the fact that they, for the most part, weren't very good.

[Edited 10/29/15 8:40am]

databank said:

I think 24 years later there's a nostalgia factor and also maybe a bit of a confusion between a fan's interest for what a work in progress reveals about the tracks and a genuine appreciation of a polished, finished work of art. If Prince had delivered D&P exactly as it was on this first configuration, it's very likely that critics and fans alike would have had been outraged at this collection of barebone demos.

I agree with you.

This configuration of D&P has the same minimal sound as the "New Power Generation" EP and the outtakes we know from that era.

It makes you wonder if he was seriously thinking to release it in that way, to that extent.

Anyway, D&P was a great commercial success for P.
I don't think it would be the same succesful in this form.

paulludvig said:

databank said:

I think 24 years later there's a nostalgia factor and also maybe a bit of a confusion between a fan's interest for what a work in progress reveals about the tracks and a genuine appreciation of a polished, finished work of art. If Prince had delivered D&P exactly as it was on this first configuration, it's very likely that critics and fans alike would have had been outraged at this collection of barebone demos.

I don't think so. The critics loved the minimalism of certain tracks on SOTT.

The SOTT tracks were constructed like that, and often off-beat songs.

D&P consists of more straightforward songs, and most tracks on this version are clearly work in progress

Pentacle said:

paulludvig said:

databank said:

I think 24 years later there's a nostalgia factor and also maybe a bit of a confusion between a fan's interest for what a work in progress reveals about the tracks and a genuine appreciation of a polished, finished work of art. If Prince had delivered D&P exactly as it was on this first configuration, it's very likely that critics and fans alike would have had been outraged at this collection of barebone demos.

I don't think so. The critics loved the minimalism of certain tracks on SOTT.

It was a different concept entirely, SOTT was a very intellectual album and Crystal Ball, the original concept, was even more conceptual. Batman is extremely minimalist even but this works well with electronic tracks such as It, Hot Thing, Trust or Lemon Crush, or with basic rock bands such as in The Undertaker. D&P from the beginning was designed to have a band feel, and a relatively sophisticated/polished one. This album wasn't about making experiments and pleasing European hipsters so much as to please the masses, and in order to do that Prince needed to get a sound that was acceptable for the average radio programmer and listener. Listen to D&P if only that one: the bridge part lacks a solo or something, it lacks something overall to make it as cushy as it should be. Same with Insatiable: the piano is wonderful but it needed those electronic flutes to make it smooth and cushy as it should be, etc. I would assume Gett Off was originally excluded from the tracklist because Prince deemed it to weird or too experimental to fit in.

Even more I'd say this first version lacks what has been Prince's absolute trademark: little sounds and touches of synth, guitar or sound effects all over the place to make each measure sound different than the one before. Willing And Able here, for one, is totally devoid of that save the backgrnd vocals, it absolutely needed those little touches of synth that are in the final cut to make iot totally alive and a true Prince track.

I am convinced that, as with the May 85 Parade config for example, Prince only wanted to have a first "feel" of what his next album could be like, how he could organize the tracks, maybe get a few second opinions from people around him. But the mere fact that he knew, with both parade or D&P, that he was nearly a year away from releasing the album, would suggest that he was perfectly aware of the fact that he couldn't resist toying with certain tracks, and that he would i,nevitably record tracks he'd want to have in the album during the following year.

However it's priceless for us to have access to those work in progress configurations, I take a great pleasure in listening to those unfinished versions and getting an idea of what was Prince's original idea of such or such album, as well as in seeing how the songs evolved: what was added, changed or removed.

databank said:

paulludvig said:

databank said: I don't think so. The critics loved the minimalism of certain tracks on SOTT.

It was a different concept entirely, SOTT was a very intellectual album and Crystal Ball, the original concept, was even more conceptual. Batman is extremely minimalist even but this works well with electronic tracks such as It, Hot Thing, Trust or Lemon Crush, or with basic rock bands such as in The Undertaker. D&P from the beginning was designed to have a band feel, and a relatively sophisticated/polished one. This album wasn't about making experiments and pleasing European hipsters so much as to please the masses, and in order to do that Prince needed to get a sound that was acceptable for the average radio programmer and listener. Listen to D&P if only that one: the bridge part lacks a solo or something, it lacks something overall to make it as cushy as it should be. Same with Insatiable: the piano is wonderful but it needed those electronic flutes to make it smooth and cushy as it should be, etc. I would assume Gett Off was originally excluded from the tracklist because Prince deemed it to weird or too experimental to fit in.

Even more I'd say this first version lacks what has been Prince's absolute trademark: little sounds and touches of synth, guitar or sound effects all over the place to make each measure sound different than the one before. Willing And Able here, for one, is totally devoid of that save the backgrnd vocals, it absolutely needed those little touches of synth that are in the final cut to make iot totally alive and a true Prince track.

I am convinced that, as with the May 85 Parade config for example, Prince only wanted to have a first "feel" of what his next album could be like, how he could organize the tracks, maybe get a few second opinions from people around him. But the mere fact that he knew, with both parade or D&P, that he was nearly a year away from releasing the album, would suggest that he was perfectly aware of the fact that he couldn't resist toying with certain tracks, and that he would i,nevitably record tracks he'd want to have in the album during the following year.

However it's priceless for us to have access to those work in progress configurations, I take a great pleasure in listening to those unfinished versions and getting an idea of what was Prince's original idea of such or such album, as well as in seeing how the songs evolved: what was added, changed or removed.

Do you know that, or is it something you are deducting from listening to the final product? How can you say D&P from the beginning was designed to have a band feel when this early version does not have a band feel, but sound more like a Prince solo record? Isn't it possible that D&P began as a different concept than what it ended up as? Is it entirely impossible that this is closer to Prince's original ideas.

Obviously the final version is an attempt to make the album more commercial, but I'm not convinced that was the original vision.

[Edited 10/29/15 9:43am]

[Edited 10/29/15 9:47am]

paulludvig said:

databank said:

It was a different concept entirely, SOTT was a very intellectual album and Crystal Ball, the original concept, was even more conceptual. Batman is extremely minimalist even but this works well with electronic tracks such as It, Hot Thing, Trust or Lemon Crush, or with basic rock bands such as in The Undertaker. D&P from the beginning was designed to have a band feel, and a relatively sophisticated/polished one. This album wasn't about making experiments and pleasing European hipsters so much as to please the masses, and in order to do that Prince needed to get a sound that was acceptable for the average radio programmer and listener. Listen to D&P if only that one: the bridge part lacks a solo or something, it lacks something overall to make it as cushy as it should be. Same with Insatiable: the piano is wonderful but it needed those electronic flutes to make it smooth and cushy as it should be, etc. I would assume Gett Off was originally excluded from the tracklist because Prince deemed it to weird or too experimental to fit in.

Even more I'd say this first version lacks what has been Prince's absolute trademark: little sounds and touches of synth, guitar or sound effects all over the place to make each measure sound different than the one before. Willing And Able here, for one, is totally devoid of that save the backgrnd vocals, it absolutely needed those little touches of synth that are in the final cut to make iot totally alive and a true Prince track.

I am convinced that, as with the May 85 Parade config for example, Prince only wanted to have a first "feel" of what his next album could be like, how he could organize the tracks, maybe get a few second opinions from people around him. But the mere fact that he knew, with both parade or D&P, that he was nearly a year away from releasing the album, would suggest that he was perfectly aware of the fact that he couldn't resist toying with certain tracks, and that he would i,nevitably record tracks he'd want to have in the album during the following year.

However it's priceless for us to have access to those work in progress configurations, I take a great pleasure in listening to those unfinished versions and getting an idea of what was Prince's original idea of such or such album, as well as in seeing how the songs evolved: what was added, changed or removed.

Do you know that, or is it something you are deducting from listening to the final product? How can you say D&P from the beginning was designed to have a band feel when this early version does not have a band feel, but sound more like a Prince solo record? Isn't it possible that D&P began as a different concept than what it ended up as? Is it entirely impossible that this is closer to Prince's original ideas.

Obviously the final version is an attempt to make the album more commercial, but I'm not convinced that was the original vision.

[Edited 10/29/15 9:43am]

[Edited 10/29/15 9:47am]

I find this early config to have very much of a band feel already, it has real drums all over, it's not at all a "Prince plays with his toys" thing like Batman or GB were.

As for the rest I cannot tell as IDK when exactly P decided he wanted a hit record, whether this was immediately after GB/The Nude Tour or later in the process. My guess -but this is pure speculation though based on contextual facts- would be that he felt his power over WB declining after the GB movie catastrophe, WB forcing The Time out of his hands for Pandemonium, and supporting Ingrid to sing against his wishes. And then there was the upcoming contract: Prince was certainly aware of the fact that he had to renegociate his deal in 1992 and that, therefore, the next album would be his last chance to score a huge hit and be in a position to demand a multimillion deal with WB next (which is exactly what happened).

bluegangsta said:

ufoclub said:

I think it's funny that everyone loves this simple dry bare production and then complains when he does the same on a more recent album like some of 20ten or MPLS or his online releases... people then want more production and effects.

The faliure of 20Ten or MPLS wasn't either of them having more or less production, it was the fact that they, for the most part, weren't very good.

[Edited 10/29/15 8:40am]

Oh, I'd argue that there are tracks on either of those that are far more interesting and accomplished than some of the tracks on D&P. For sure. Even this stripped down demo version of the album.

Is it playing as one long sequence? That's the only way I can hear it.

D&P always been one of my least favorite Prince albums but it is a kick to hear this version of it. I definitely prefer the more raw, less produced quality throughout but it clearly would not have been as commercially successful as the released set. Especially since two of the biggest hits, Cream and Gett Off, are absent. But I prefer these versions of Daddy Pop, Insatiable, Live for Love and especially Horny Pony (WAY better). How awesome would be if he released a series like this, early raw versions of all or most of his albums, especially those through TGE? DO IT P! (or bootleggers will do fine too if they sound this good sonically).

So great to hear these tracks...like a lot of people mentioned, I have never really been to excited about D&P with the exception of Gett Off and Insatiable, and Thunder. (Upon later attempts to listen, I have been appreciative of Live 4 Love, and I have really tried to like the album...but it hasn't been easy...). That being said, I am totally into this Live 4 Love version...that's my jam Love the vocal ease, lightness and confidence... his voice is so smooth on this track...it has been on repeated listen...I honestly haven't explored too much else yet..but do really love the extra verses of Insatiable.....

Just an aside... I love that the Org exists and I enjoy checking in daily to get the views and opinions of everyone...I am in isolation (from other Prince fans) in my little corner of the world and I greatly appreciate the community...I have been a Prince fan since 1982 and think I know a lot about Prince and his music, but I am often (happily) humbled by the insight and knowledge of my fellow org'ers and have been turned on to so much great music that I have missed or slept on.....thanks so much everyone!!!