Just got the booklet with the CD and read it. Guess I am late coming to this realization and I don't recall seeing it specifically stated here. Quite sobering for me...

Yes. Donna takes a solo on one song, too.

It seems Prince is a sideman on his own album

FUNKYNESS said:

FUNKYNESS said:

Just got the booklet with the CD and read it. Guess I am late coming to this realization and I don't recall seeing it specifically stated here. Quite sobering for me...

They only gave half a dozen interviews to explain Prince conributed guitar, bass and vox but troll at will.

Good album, but let the negativity continue.. some of u guys are great in that.....

FUNKYNESS said:

It seems Prince is a sideman on his own album

Using a keyboard and computer to produce a drum track and sound effects, loops etc does not a song make. Sometimes i don't if you guys are joking or you really don't know whats involved in the music you're listening to.

Its only ONE album!! I really don't understand why people jump go nuts and jump off the deep end. Its ONE album. Personally I think its a good album. so what if Josh plays on it. NPG played on several albums as did Sheila and the Lovesexy band and the Revolution. Why does it matter? Man people here just can't be satisfied. I am glad Prince is trying something different. He has done it for so long its time to do something different. I think this album finally has a current and fresh sound to it. Its not his best album but its good and very fun!! He did ONE acoustic album and its not like he flooded us wih tons of acoustic albums. Same goes for his Piano album. He did not punish us with loads of Piano albums after that. He wanted to do an electronic/club album and did it well. I like it. He has now done an entire rock album, religious album, R&B, electro, acoustic, jazz, classical and funk. Now I hope he does a blues album or country album. I love the fact that he can and does genre style albums because he can. Why not do it all!!?? It keeps things fun and interesting. If yo don't like it just don't buy it but don't continuing to ruin it for the fans that do like his new music and would like to celebrate it here. This site really makes people not like Prince at all or for the newbies it really discourages them because they think EVERYHTING by him sucks except for Sign o the times and purple rain because thats all that you read here

I heard Prince only sang and played guitar on most of the songs on Purple Rain. I guess we're not supposed to like that?

FUNKYNESS said:

Just got the booklet with the CD and read it. Guess I am late coming to this realization and I don't recall seeing it specifically stated here. Quite sobering for me...

This is not new. We are a few years into Josh writing all the synth-based music. Sometimes working from a Prince outtake, but neverless the sounds you are hearing on the released tracks are Josh. I think some of it, at first, was Prince toying with out expectations in a 'you don't know me' kind of way. Now I think it is straight-up lack of confidence, anger at the industry and a substantial dose of pure laziness on his part.

lezama said:

FUNKYNESS said:

It seems Prince is a sideman on his own album

Using a keyboard and computer to produce a drum track and sound effects, loops etc does not a song make. Sometimes i don't if you guys are joking or you really don't know whats involved in the music you're listening to.

Can you do it? By that I mean, can you make a groove using a computer? And I don't mean using loops or samples, but properly programming, from scratch, an original groove or even a beat?

funksterr said:

Mindflux said:

funksterr said:

elf9933 said:

FUNKYNESS said:

It seems Prince is a sideman on his own album

I started a thread last year that lasted a tellingly very long time how I thought AOA was vastly over appreciated.Hit n run while admittedly shallow is a much catchier enjoyable effort where boredom is not an issue but selling out again is. However it's his songs pretty much with the youth and vigour of a young producer with fresh ideas. Billy Joel for years would blame everything from 911 to divorce issues for him not being able to write after his early 50s. While Prince can still write he is becoming a tired old soul who can't produce original sounds anymore.But regardless the album is stil very enjoyable

He has an absolute obsession to not repeating himself, at this point i think he feels there is really nothing else sound wise he can do that he hasnt already done. I think he really needs to get over this line of thought, there is nothing wrong with repeating yourself. I mean 95% of the artists/bands out there, you could take any of their albums, pick 10 songs at random, and it would sound like a cohesive album. You cannot do that with Prince stuff, he has done a great job of changing up his sound over the years. There is nothing wrong with dipping into the very well that made him successfull imo. Just make great music, forget about the sounds you did, or the sound sof the day, just make what feels right.

At some point this obsession is going to hurt his legacy rather than help it, some might say it already has.

Aerogram said:

FUNKYNESS said:

Just got the booklet with the CD and read it. Guess I am late coming to this realization and I don't recall seeing it specifically stated here. Quite sobering for me...

They only gave half a dozen interviews to explain Prince conributed guitar, bass and vox but troll at will.

I dont answer to any person with the mentality and maturity to uses the term troll. There is absolutely nothing substantial or meaningful that you can do about anything that I post here or anywhere else. Whine at will.

lezama said:

funksterr said:

This is not new. We are a few years into Josh writing all the synth-based music. Sometimes working from a Prince outtake, but neverless the sounds you are hearing on the released tracks are Josh. I think some of it, at first, was Prince toying with out expectations in a 'you don't know me' kind of way. Now I think it is straight-up lack of confidence, anger at the industry and a substantial dose of pure laziness on his part.

Of all the things one could accuse Prince of where do you see him lacking confidence? Maybe you are blind to the fact that this man makes the most audacious deals with just about any person in the industry at the drop of a dime. And the crazy thing is that he GETS them. You dont accomplish these type of deals year after year.by doubting yourself.

I must agree. Any question of his confidence is foolhardy at best. In fact, his confidence has probably served him to as a detriment in more than a few instances. Name another legendary artist who has surrounded himself with as many unqualified, undeserving sycophants and attempted to present something worthy of his legacy and reputation.

lezama said:

funksterr said:

This is not new. We are a few years into Josh writing all the synth-based music. Sometimes working from a Prince outtake, but neverless the sounds you are hearing on the released tracks are Josh. I think some of it, at first, was Prince toying with out expectations in a 'you don't know me' kind of way. Now I think it is straight-up lack of confidence, anger at the industry and a substantial dose of pure laziness on his part.

Of all the things one could accuse Prince of where do you see him lacking confidence? Maybe you are blind to the fact that this man makes the most audacious deals with just about any person in the industry at the drop of a dime. And the crazy thing is that he GETS them. You dont accomplish these type of deals year after year.by doubting yourself.

We're talking music, not contracts. Joh does all his pop and R&B records now. For what? Why has Prince turned that over to Josh, if not for lack of confidence inhi own abilities. We are in the 2nd year of Beats By Josh. Initially Prince gave Josh no credit and just put the tracks out there without comment.

I don't think it takes a lot of confidence, btw, to say yes to $10 million dollar advances with zero contract stipulations.

funksterr said:

lezama said:

funksterr said: Of all the things one could accuse Prince of where do you see him lacking confidence? Maybe you are blind to the fact that this man makes the most audacious deals with just about any person in the industry at the drop of a dime. And the crazy thing is that he GETS them. You dont accomplish these type of deals year after year.by doubting yourself.

We're talking music, not contracts. Joh does all his pop and R&B records now. For what? Why has Prince turned that over to Josh, if not for lack of confidence inhi own abilities. We are in the 2nd year of Beats By Josh. Initially Prince gave Josh no credit and just put the tracks out there without comment.

I don't think it takes a lot of confidence, btw, to say yes to $10 million dollar advances with zero contract stipulations.

1) How many albums did Kirky J work on with Prince? If he were working with a drummer, bassist, keyboardist and guitarist and asking his bandmembers to play something that he could work with, what would be the difference? Of course he could sit and do it himself, but why would have them there if he didnt want them to contribute? Every artist surrounds themselves with others, other inspirations, muses etc so that they can keep themselves fresh. Its part of the creative process of continuing to evolve and do new things.

2) No ones hunting Prince down to offer him substantial advances on his work. He's going after them. And if you look around there's no body else really doing this in any comparable sense in this industry. For every label or person that tells him yes there's probably double that have told him no. Maybe when youre in the real world making deals for yourself you'll realize just how unnatural Prince's level of confidence really is.

Mindflux said:

lezama said:

Using a keyboard and computer to produce a drum track and sound effects, loops etc does not a song make. Sometimes i don't if you guys are joking or you really don't know whats involved in the music you're listening to.

Can you do it? By that I mean, can you make a groove using a computer? And I don't mean using loops or samples, but properly programming, from scratch, an original groove or even a beat?

Thank you! My hubby is a producer/dj etc...I have dabbled (actually have done a real remix that got picked up) and using a computer isn't just copy/paste. Even if you sample, you DO have to know ALOT to make even the smallest sounds that in the whole of the record may not even be noticed. Its not easy, nor is 'fake'. It is actual music albeit done in a different manner.

terrig said:

Mindflux said:

Can you do it? By that I mean, can you make a groove using a computer? And I don't mean using loops or samples, but properly programming, from scratch, an original groove or even a beat?

Thank you! My hubby is a producer/dj etc...I have dabbled (actually have done a real remix that got picked up) and using a computer isn't just copy/paste. Even if you sample, you DO have to know ALOT to make even the smallest sounds that in the whole of the record may not even be noticed. Its not easy, nor is 'fake'. It is actual music albeit done in a different manner.

You people ruined this thread

FUNKYNESS said:

terrig said:

Thank you! My hubby is a producer/dj etc...I have dabbled (actually have done a real remix that got picked up) and using a computer isn't just copy/paste. Even if you sample, you DO have to know ALOT to make even the smallest sounds that in the whole of the record may not even be noticed. Its not easy, nor is 'fake'. It is actual music albeit done in a different manner.

You people ruined this thread

I'll take that as a compliment

Prince did the guitars, bass and vocals (well, except for the ones done by various "guest vocalists"). I'm guessing there might be a few other minor bits beyond those that are him. But on many tracks the bass alone is worth the price of admission. I'm guessing he had a similar role with regard to the horns and strings as he has in the past, sometimes giving fairly explicit direction to the players and sometimes not, but relying on someone else to pull off arranging (and obviously the performing). Prince also at least part of the time gave instructions before Josh did his tracks, and while there might have been times Josh just gave Prince a track and he wrote the song (lyrics, melody) after that, I'm almost willing to bet that 1000 X's +O's wasn't the only thing that was a fully formed song (chords, melody, lyrics--a bare bones arrangement) before Josh started his work.

I don't intend to minimize Josh's involvement. This is an album that wouldn't exist in this form without Josh--and it's extremely likely that some songs wouldn't exist in any form before Josh did his tracks. But someone else working out large amounts of arrangements, or even being a co-composer and performer, hardly makes Prince a sideman on the album. If he is, than the vast majority of artists are "sidemen" on their albums, and always have been. Hitnrun is a Prince album, whether anyone likes it or not.

lezama said:

1) How many albums did Kirky J work on with Prince? If he were working with a drummer, bassist, keyboardist and guitarist and asking his bandmembers to play something that he could work with, what would be the difference? Of course he could sit and do it himself, but why would have them there if he didnt want them to contribute? Every artist surrounds themselves with others, other inspirations, muses etc so that they can keep themselves fresh. Its part of the creative process of continuing to evolve and do new things.

Well first, for some reason Prince likes to surround himself with the least talented people he can find. Not sure what's up with that, but it likely comes down to budget issues and usually get what you pay for. So you do have a lot of people adding things to his music that are a bad fit for what he asks them to do.

2) No ones hunting Prince down to offer him substantial advances on his work. He's going after them. And if you look around there's no body else really doing this in any comparable sense in this industry. For every label or person that tells him yes there's probably double that have told him no. Maybe when youre in the real world making deals for yourself you'll realize just how unnatural Prince's level of confidence really is.

Actually they do. In today's music environment that's exactly what happens when you are an A-Lister who controls his own rights. I think that's exactly why Prince doesn't like contracts. He wants to move on to the next sponsor. Think about how many different organizations have cut checks to Prince for a one time album since Emancipation and Crystal Ball. It's a lot right?

But my point was never about his business confidence. It was music. I think Prince lacks faith in his own ability to create tracks hot enough for today's music scene, he's too lazy to really figure it out, so he hired Josh and just lazily comes in and tags on a few things to an already complete track. That's not real Prince music to me.

Maybe we should even let Josh handle the vocals. Hell the album might have improved!

funksterr said:

lezama said:

1) How many albums did Kirky J work on with Prince? If he were working with a drummer, bassist, keyboardist and guitarist and asking his bandmembers to play something that he could work with, what would be the difference? Of course he could sit and do it himself, but why would have them there if he didnt want them to contribute? Every artist surrounds themselves with others, other inspirations, muses etc so that they can keep themselves fresh. Its part of the creative process of continuing to evolve and do new things.

Well first, for some reason Prince likes to surround himself with the least talented people he can find. Not sure what's up with that, but it likely comes down to budget issues and usually get what you pay for. So you do have a lot of people adding things to his music that are a bad fit for what he asks them to do.

2) No ones hunting Prince down to offer him substantial advances on his work. He's going after them. And if you look around there's no body else really doing this in any comparable sense in this industry. For every label or person that tells him yes there's probably double that have told him no. Maybe when youre in the real world making deals for yourself you'll realize just how unnatural Prince's level of confidence really is.

Actually they do. In today's music environment that's exactly what happens when you are an A-Lister who controls his own rights. I think that's exactly why Prince doesn't like contracts. He wants to move on to the next sponsor. Think about how many different organizations have cut checks to Prince for a one time album since Emancipation and Crystal Ball. It's a lot right?

But my point was never about his business confidence. It was music. I think Prince lacks faith in his own ability to create tracks hot enough for today's music scene, he's too lazy to really figure it out, so he hired Josh and just lazily comes in and tags on a few things to an already complete track. That's not real Prince music to me.

The people he recruited for his initial bands were largely people from his neighborhood, and look at the music he did.

Also the guy is famous for his insane work ethic and hours, I think you're way out of your depth calling him "lazy". Plus saying he lacks confidence -- really this is just nonsense, you're just pushing buttons to see what kind of reaction you'll get.

CharismaDove said:

Maybe we should even let Josh handle the vocals. Hell the album might have improved!

Another comment that's utter nonsense once again.

Aerogram said:

The people he recruited for his initial bands were largely people from his neighborhood, and look at the music he did.

Also the guy is famous for his insane work ethic and hours, I think you're way out of your depth calling him "lazy". Plus saying he lacks confidence -- really this is just nonsense, you're just pushing buttons to see what kind of reaction you'll get.

You are behind the times. Prince hasn't been that guy we all remember for a looong time. He's not clocking marathon sessions in the studio anymore, and to the extent he is there, the music is not hot. All the flop albums have caught up to him and broken his confidence in his own ability to make hits.

If you read his press over the last 18 months and listen to the last 5 albums or so associated with him, his protoges are doing the lion's share and I get the impression he doesn't put the work in anymore. If he does, where is there any evidence of it? PlecElec was a group effort featuring cover-songs and stuff Donna used to play on Youtube. AOA and HNR are almost completely Josh solo albums. All the one-off singles are either Josh or 3Eg or covers. If Prince is soo confident, and working sooo hard then where is the music?

[Edited 9/20/15 18:41pm]