If we ever get to hear the original mix with a bass (i believe it exists, correct me if wrong), then I can tell u, but I doubt it'd be better

definitely not

We've all heard WDC with a bassline. The live versions played through 1984/85 is what the song would've sounded like had the bassline been kept.

attention grabbing tactic.

If the studio bassline was the same one that was played for live prtformances, then getting rid of it was the correct decision.

No.

The only logical response to a statement like that is "Prove it"

Pick up your bass guitar and show us what that bassline might sound like. If you don't play bass guitar the you're not qualified to make such a statement.

If on the other hand, what you were trying to say was "Wouldn't it be cool to hear the song with the bassline before Prince dropped it out". Then yes. I agree.

[Edited 9/11/15 11:29am]

Noodled24 said:

It has one. It's just played with the linn rather than an electric bass guitar.

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

Noodled24 said:

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'When Doves Cry' may very well be the poster child of refinement by way of simplification. And not just in its Linn fills holding their own in the absence of a conventional bass part. That bass part, which I shudder to speculate on, may be, or may have included, DX7 or OB-XA/OB-8 rather than [only] guitar. I believe there are likely other 'missing' instrumental parts that have been removed from earlier stages of the mix, with new parts stacked on the tracks that were left in the mix at varying points during production, while P sketched and worked out the ultimate 'feel' for the song.

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(Regarding the DX7, TJ/WDC/L&S are his first studio tracks to feature this keyboard, which Peggy McCreary had to run out and purchase specifically for these sessions, and P tends to be a 'presets' person, although admittedly, Feb/Mar 1984 would seem too early for P to have used this for bass parts)

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I don't believe that the 'original' bassline could simply be re-added-- perhaps not even with painstaking effort; it is likely something from an earlier stage in the development of the track that may not be at all compatible with the structure and tonality of the completed one.

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That the bassline was simply dropped from what was essentially/otherwise the track we have all come to know, seems unlikely and mythological, drawn from distant rumor and not-overly-pointed remarks from Fink and others.

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A genuine, 'vintage' (demo) version with a 'proper' bassline may well be far removed from the average fan's expectations, having more than just the bassline added back in the mix; it would probably be nearly as different from the PR album version, as Bucks Fizz's 'What's Love Got to Do with It' is from Tina Turner's (slight hyperbole, perhaps, for illustration purposes).

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It would be interesting, however, to compare a 'fuller', longer and rough-around-the-edges early version with the brilliantly spartan final product.

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WDC was apparently recorded to improve on the montage-sequence backing 'Traffic Jam', which had been tracked only a short number of days prior, and, in the process, expanded its musical ideas into a full lyrical effort much more electrifying than the earlier track. The guitar and Linn effects, and several of the very same synth patches, are of course shared between the two songs, as well as a loosely similar general structure (probably too similar structurally to be merely the incidental result of both being recorded during the same week of sessions).

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I dig, if I will, a picture an early version of the track beginning with bare white noise/flanger (similar to the extended 'Computer Blue' outtakes), entering then into a longer, more monotonous drum sequence (not unlike the longer drum opening of the 'Joy in Repetition' outtake) and without the guitar solo overlaid (that intro guitar solo possibly having been repurposed from a later point in the track, or part of an extended version of the guitar towards the end, or an alternate version of it). There would be mostly-drum instrumental breakdowns at one or more points in the track (with a sprinkle of P's indulgent cooing here and there). The guitar [and/or synth] bass part would play off against the DX7 lead line and Linn throughout the track. There may be mixes with more of the heavy-grit electric guitar backing the track. All variety of other (possibly obtrusive) synth parts would layer over added sequences and what we have in common with the released track.

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And, as much as hearing a demo or early version would be exciting, I feel that we are overdue an 'extended' version of the released track, but P is likely reticent to change the mechanics of his most successful outing.

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For my own part, I am skeptical as to the popular image of WDC's conception-- of P laying track upon track in the studio with cold, almost unerring surgical precision. The end product is a tincture with the appearance of those qualities, but its original design may be quite different.

.

I believe the 1983 version of 'Irresistible Bitch' (although it has a bass part) is another song heavily simplified through technically adept mixing (and effects/processing), and to great effect, with new tracks laid on top of those, in a 'wash, rinse, repeat' manner. The 1999 album version of 'Something in the Water. . .', likewise.

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[Edited 9/11/15 23:16pm]

is there an unreleased early version of the song with the bassline?

SoulAlive said:

is there an unreleased early version of the song with the bassline?

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A bassline is assumed to be part of the original tracking, and such a demo or demos most likely do exist, but have been set aside and relegated to the Vault since mid-1984.

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[Edited 9/12/15 6:22am]

imprimis said:

..

A genuine, 'vintage' (demo) version with a 'proper' bassline may well be far removed from the average fan's expectations, having more than just the bassline added back in the mix; it would probably be nearly as different from the PR album version, as Bucks Fizz's 'What's Love Got to Do with It' is from Tina Turner's (slight hyperbole, perhaps, for illustration purposes).

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[Edited 9/11/15 23:16pm]

I suspect you're right that there was a lot more different than just a bassline--but that particular change was just so remarkable that it's just what those who had heard the earlier version noted as the "gamechanging" change. Maybe akin to the way Around the World in a Day's demos are quite fuller (and less striking) than the final released version (the live performances of that song also suffer from being fuller, in my view).

Didn't know anything about the What's Love Got To Do With It story--thanks for mentioning it. Just spent some time listening and reading about it.

imprimis said:

SoulAlive said:

is there an unreleased early version of the song with the bassline?

.

.

A bassline is assumed to be part of the original tracking, and such a demo or demos most likely do exist, but have been set aside and relegated to the Vault since mid-1984.

.

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[Edited 9/12/15 6:22am]

Yes - and I have heard it - and it takes away from the stark and attention grabbing nature of the song.

Among other shocking thread titles you might want to consider:

Purple Rain would have been better as an up-tempo tune

Prince should have stripped the guitar solo off Kiss

Batdance should have been an acoustic folk tune

1999 should have been called 1997

imprimis said:

I don't believe that the 'original' bassline could simply be re-added-- perhaps not even with painstaking effort; it is likely something from an earlier stage in the development of the track that may not be at all compatible with the structure and tonality of the completed one.

While I'm inclined to agree with most of what you said. Isn't there a "famous" story or interview which recalls the moment Prince removed the bass? Implying he simply took it out?

It's quite possible the story is told rose-tinted, legend building glasses. It certainly makes the story more snappy than "weeks of tinkering followed by Prince forgetting to turn up the bass... and saying he did it deliberately because there was a girl in the room"

MrsFelicityCrumble said:

Noodled24 said:

The only logical response to a statement like that is "Prove it"

Pick up your bass guitar and show us what that bassline might sound like. If you don't play bass guitar the you're not qualified to make such a statement.

If on the other hand, what you were trying to say was "Wouldn't it be cool to hear the song with the bassline before Prince dropped it out". Then yes. I agree.

[Edited 9/11/15 11:29am]

Noodled, I accept your challenge

Please do.

I've spent years collecting and listening to Prince curiosities. I've never heard even a fake WDC w.Bass. I'd be more than happy to listen with open ears to anyone taking a punt on what it might sound like.

No

Yeah, no. Stripping out the bass made the song what it was, to where the first time you heard it you were startled but couldn't figure out why.

Fink told Prince that it needed a bass line when he first heard it in the car. Prince said he tried everything and could not make it work.

It would seem that any bassline and bass part(s) the song may have had at an earlier point in its development were a substantive part of the structure of the track, rather than the more submissive, passive jamming the Purple Rain Tour performance versions contain.

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It seems the original bassline [or attempts at one] were something fundamental to the emotional import and posture of the track. I have a feeling that it was loud and overt in the mix and duplicated many of the same aspects of the lead line/melody.

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I believe a funky, slinky bassline could be intelligently superimposed onto the album track (something close to those of the 1983 'Irresistible Bitch' or 'Cloreen Bacon Skin'), but it wouldn't improve the song in its role as a studio effort. And that addition would work better if the song had extended instrumental/Linn breaks like an earlier, longer version would be likely to have.

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[Edited 9/15/15 19:13pm]

If there is one Prince record that comes even close to encapsulating the depth and breadth of his genius, it is this one. If it is not perfect, there nothing that can come closer to perfection. Only one artist could have made it - at any given time. This is what makes a piece a true masterpiece. When all the trend chasing and the marginal young chicks and punk ass producers - and the proverbial smoke - has cleared, Prince music like this will still endure through the ages. Whatever he may do to irritate some of us today can not invalidate such mastery and art of times gone by.