So I see the Hit 'n' Run sales thread is taking off (we all knew it would crop up. I was hoping HNR would be a Tidal exclusive just so we wouldn't have to worry about sales )

But reading that thread, as stated multiple times, it's quite obvious that HNR has underperformed and will probably go down as Prince's worst-selling album of all time.

Do you think Prince should have waited a while before releasing this album? In my honest opinion, sales of the album suffered a bit because it hasn't even been a damn year yet since AOA was released.. I knew a lot of people say "Prince is irrelevent, etc etc" but when AOA was coming out, there was a surprising amount of hype and several acquaintences (people who probably wouldn't buy a Prince CD) came up to me and told me they heard Prince was releasing 2 new CDs together. His first album in five years was anticipated, got a lot of pre-hype from Yahoo!/news/Prince himself (even though he failed to promote it AFTER it came out, which was a bad mistake imo), and in general I think performed pretty well. 200K+ is not amazing, but it's good for a legacy act in 2014/15.

While AOA was handled well, I honestly do think HNR was released far too early. As I stated above, Prince is still relevent enough that when he's about to release an album, there is pre-hype from news sources and such. AOA got a lot, being his first released in a long time. However, less than a year later he releases HNR which gets maybe half of that hype and then not even half the sales... I really think P made a mistake releasing a follow-up so quickly. This ain't 1985 where ATWIAD still sold several solid millions. The album was released so quickly after AOA that it didn't get awesome hype/promo and now the sales are...er...devastatingly bad? I guess that's an opinion though. He should have waited at least a year and a half, and 2 years would have been better.

I know people are gonna get pissed and say Prince does things his way etc, but it's just my opinion. Do you think the album could have benefitted if it was released later and got better promo? At this point, he might not even sell 50K AOA was a success, regardless of my feelings on it, and sold well. This album flopped.

The initial understanding is that it would be released exclusively on TIDAL only... Then I guess by demand they decided to release a phsyical copy as well, the first time a streaming service releases an album in physical form btw...

The problem isn't how long he waited... He's been releasing an album almost every year for what 35 years now... AOA and Plectrum were released four years after 20Ten... Those 4 years were very crucial due to the modernization of the technology, decrease in album sales and the introduction to streaming becoming the number 1 form of music listening in today's "new generation"...

AOA was a moderate success, selling an estimated over 200k worldwide. Plectrum was a flop, and HitnRun is shaping up to be his lowest selling album/debut of all time with just about 10k of first week sales...

What the future holds in terms of commercial success as many here on this site scorn whenever sales are mentioned, is how PRINCE will continue to distribute his music to the masses, weither it being streaming, WBR contract, or one time deals with other labels.

feeluupp said:

The initial understanding is that it would be released exclusively on TIDAL only... Then I guess by demand they decided to release a phsyical copy as well, the first time a streaming service releases an album in physical form btw...

The problem isn't how long he waited... He's been releasing an album almost every year for what 35 years now... AOA and Plectrum were released four years after 20Ten... Those 4 years were very crucial due to the modernization of the technology, decrease in album sales and the introduction to streaming becoming the number 1 form of music listening in today's "new generation"...

AOA was a moderate success, selling an estimated over 200k worldwide. Plectrum was a flop, and HitnRun is shaping up to be his lowest selling album/debut of all time with just about 10k of first week sales...

What the future holds in terms of commercial success as many here on this site scorn whenever sales are mentioned, is how PRINCE will continue to distribute his music to the masses, weither it being streaming, WBR contract, or one time deals with other labels.

Yeah I know he's been releasing albums every year, but in the '80s he could afford doing that and sell solid millions on each, and in the '90s (tafkap era) he could afford doing that and sell either 1 million/several thousands on each release. In the 2000s, he began spacing his albums out further (which I really do think contributed in Musicology and 3121 having pretty decent numbers). And that way, they would get better pre-release promo too. The only time he broke this rule was releasing Planet Earth a year after 3121, but that was more like a year and a half. Nowadays if Prince wants sales, he has to even somewhat 'play by the game', which I think he usually does. So it was shocking to me that he released HNR so early after AOA.

Also, I said 5 years because (at least here in the US), his last traditionally released album was Lotus in March 2009. 20Ten was a newspaper-exclusive.

It's actually quite odd how AOA sold 200K and even Plec sold what, 70/80K, and HNR on the other hand is selling horribly low numbers. That's why I believed maybe it had to do with the timing of its' release.

[Edited 9/20/15 18:07pm]

CharismaDove said:

feeluupp said:

The initial understanding is that it would be released exclusively on TIDAL only... Then I guess by demand they decided to release a phsyical copy as well, the first time a streaming service releases an album in physical form btw...

The problem isn't how long he waited... He's been releasing an album almost every year for what 35 years now... AOA and Plectrum were released four years after 20Ten... Those 4 years were very crucial due to the modernization of the technology, decrease in album sales and the introduction to streaming becoming the number 1 form of music listening in today's "new generation"...

AOA was a moderate success, selling an estimated over 200k worldwide. Plectrum was a flop, and HitnRun is shaping up to be his lowest selling album/debut of all time with just about 10k of first week sales...

What the future holds in terms of commercial success as many here on this site scorn whenever sales are mentioned, is how PRINCE will continue to distribute his music to the masses, weither it being streaming, WBR contract, or one time deals with other labels.

Yeah I know he's been releasing albums every year, but in the '80s he could afford doing that and sell solid millions on each, and in the '90s (tafkap era) he could afford doing that and sell either 1 million/several thousands on each release. In the 2000s, he began spacing his albums out further (which I really do think contributed in Musicology and 3121 having pretty decent numbers). And that way, they would get better pre-release promo too. The only time he broke this rule was releasing Planet Earth a year after 3121, but that was more like a year and a half. Nowadays if Prince wants sales, he has to even somewhat 'play by the game', which I think he usually does. So it was shocking to me that he released HNR so early after AOA.

Also, I said 5 years because (at least here in the US), his last traditionally released album was Lotus in March 2009. 20Ten was a newspaper-exclusive.

It's actually quite odd how AOA sold 200K and even Plec sold what, 70/80K, and HNR on the other hand is selling horribly low numbers. That's why I believed maybe it had to do with the timing of its' release.

[Edited 9/20/15 18:07pm]

Don't mention sales and numbers on the ORG... They will rip u a new one...

feeluupp said:

CharismaDove said:

Yeah I know he's been releasing albums every year, but in the '80s he could afford doing that and sell solid millions on each, and in the '90s (tafkap era) he could afford doing that and sell either 1 million/several thousands on each release. In the 2000s, he began spacing his albums out further (which I really do think contributed in Musicology and 3121 having pretty decent numbers). And that way, they would get better pre-release promo too. The only time he broke this rule was releasing Planet Earth a year after 3121, but that was more like a year and a half. Nowadays if Prince wants sales, he has to even somewhat 'play by the game', which I think he usually does. So it was shocking to me that he released HNR so early after AOA.

Also, I said 5 years because (at least here in the US), his last traditionally released album was Lotus in March 2009. 20Ten was a newspaper-exclusive.

It's actually quite odd how AOA sold 200K and even Plec sold what, 70/80K, and HNR on the other hand is selling horribly low numbers. That's why I believed maybe it had to do with the timing of its' release.

[Edited 9/20/15 18:07pm]

Don't mention sales and numbers on the ORG... They will rip u a new one...

I'm usually pretty fair on Prince (as I like to remind people who try and compare his '80s albums sales with other artists who were releasing 1 catchypop album every 3 years), but the boy screwed up this time. He can't take this release back lol

CharismaDove said:

feeluupp said:

Don't mention sales and numbers on the ORG... They will rip u a new one...

I'm usually pretty fair on Prince (as I like to remind people who try and compare his '80s albums sales with other artists who were releasing 1 catchypop album every 3 years), but the boy screwed up this time. He can't take this release back lol

As I posted in the HitnRun sales thread I was shocked at the really low numbers I wanted to change the title and discussion about the low sales, some mebers here took it personal and went crazy...

All because of this: HitnRun first week sales plus streaming:

the billboard chart sales should be posted by tomorrow...

feeluupp said:

CharismaDove said:

I'm usually pretty fair on Prince (as I like to remind people who try and compare his '80s albums sales with other artists who were releasing 1 catchypop album every 3 years), but the boy screwed up this time. He can't take this release back lol

As I posted in the HitnRun sales thread I was shocked at the really low numbers I wanted to change the title and discussion about the low sales, some mebers here took it personal and went crazy...

All because of this: HitnRun first week sales plus streaming:

-- 32 PRINCE HITNRUN PHASE ONE

NPG

10,562

the billboard chart sales should be posted by tomorrow...

Same here

It's not going to be a joyous occasion looking at the stats tomorrow

[Edited 9/20/15 18:16pm]

feeluupp said:

The initial understanding is that it would be released exclusively on TIDAL only... Then I guess by demand they decided to release a phsyical copy as well, the first time a streaming service releases an album in physical form btw...

The problem isn't how long he waited... He's been releasing an album almost every year for what 35 years now... AOA and Plectrum were released four years after 20Ten... Those 4 years were very crucial due to the modernization of the technology, decrease in album sales and the introduction to streaming becoming the number 1 form of music listening in today's "new generation"...

AOA was a moderate success, selling an estimated over 200k worldwide. Plectrum was a flop, and HitnRun is shaping up to be his lowest selling album/debut of all time with just about 10k of first week sales...

What the future holds in terms of commercial success as many here on this site scorn whenever sales are mentioned, is how PRINCE will continue to distribute his music to the masses, weither it being streaming, WBR contract, or one time deals with other labels.

You really think all those cds were produced last week then shipped to stores in response to dissatisfied fans? He said at the black press event there would be a physical copy, it's just that The Org doubted it. Those CDs were certainly in the deal.

CharismaDove said:

feeluupp said:

As I posted in the HitnRun sales thread I was shocked at the really low numbers I wanted to change the title and discussion about the low sales, some mebers here took it personal and went crazy...

All because of this: HitnRun first week sales plus streaming:

-- 32 PRINCE HITNRUN PHASE ONE

NPG

10,562

the billboard chart sales should be posted by tomorrow...

Same here

It's not going to be a joyous occasion looking at the stats tomorrow

[Edited 9/20/15 18:16pm]

As long as he's been an artist, the thing with PRINCE is he can pull off a commercial success if HE WANTS TO... But he always sabotages his own commercial success... 20 years after PURPLE RAIN he has the #1 Tour and a multi platinum grammy award winning album with MUSICOLOGY... He can obtain commercial success but he never obeys the proper ways to promote. Diamonds and Pearls almost sold 7 million worldwide just after the lackluster commercial showing of Graffiti Bridge and the movie bombing at the box office... It's like a seasaw with PRINCE, if he wants a commercial album he can achieve it... He just likes to follow his spiritual and artistic instinct rather than his business instinct. I mean take Purple Rain for example, biggest album of the year, box office movie hit, grammy, biggest tour of the year, oscar, sells over 25 million to date... Yet you release ATWIAD right away cancel the Purple Rain tour, demand WB to not promote ATIWAD with singles or videos, etc... Might be the biggest drop in sales by an artist... Going from 25 million to 2 million... He just sabotages his commercial clout most of the time, that's the truth. Not personal, just facts.

Aerogram said:

feeluupp said:

The initial understanding is that it would be released exclusively on TIDAL only... Then I guess by demand they decided to release a phsyical copy as well, the first time a streaming service releases an album in physical form btw...

The problem isn't how long he waited... He's been releasing an album almost every year for what 35 years now... AOA and Plectrum were released four years after 20Ten... Those 4 years were very crucial due to the modernization of the technology, decrease in album sales and the introduction to streaming becoming the number 1 form of music listening in today's "new generation"...

AOA was a moderate success, selling an estimated over 200k worldwide. Plectrum was a flop, and HitnRun is shaping up to be his lowest selling album/debut of all time with just about 10k of first week sales...

What the future holds in terms of commercial success as many here on this site scorn whenever sales are mentioned, is how PRINCE will continue to distribute his music to the masses, weither it being streaming, WBR contract, or one time deals with other labels.

You really think all those cds were produced last week then shipped to stores in response to dissatisfied fans? He said at the black press event there would be a physical copy, it's just that The Org doubted it. Those CDs were certainly in the deal.

OFC, I believe it was planned to have a phsyical release, it's just the way the promoted it being a TIDAL exclusive only... AT FIRST... It's PRINCE... Don't you like surprises? ..

Fans (who u'd think want more P music) saying "Prince should release less albums because he's saturating the market" are talking like labels executives.

I'd rather have Prince release an album a week and sell 5 copies of each tnan have him sell 5m of an album every five years

databank said:

Fans (who u'd think want more P music) saying "Prince should release less albums because he's saturating the market" are talking like labels executives.

I'd rather have Prince release an album a week and sell 5 copies of each tnan have him sell 5m of an album every five years

I agree with u on that... The question is, will it be harder for PRINCE to find distribution in the future say 5 years from now if his sales get to a point so low that the other side isn't making the profit they desire... 20Ten was the first example of PRINCE having a hard time shipping that album to labels for distribution... I just hope we continue to get more PRINCE albums on a constant basis regardless of sales or not.

thedoorkeeper said:

No I don't think waiting longer would have made a difference. IMHO the problem was Prince & Tidal didn't want the release of a physical copy to be known. They were attempting to attract people to Tidal with HITNRUN and the news of a physical release would possibly affect membership. HITNRUN is an example of what happens when a cd is released with no advance notice. Its not surprising sales are so low. The CD was hard to find for many people. I had to go to 3 stores before I found one.

Plus most of the songs were first recorded in 2014 and they probably worked on the production since then, but bottom line he did sort of wait.

A Jevohah's Witness is not supposed to indulge in fame and fortune.

Many talented JWs elect a career path that doesn't involve fame because simply put, it's undesirable in the faith.

Prince doesn't want fame for many reasons IMO.

He's just quietly releasing quality.

GoldStandard said:

A Jevohah's Witness is not supposed to indulge in fame and fortune.

Many talented JWs elect a career path that doesn't involve fame because simply put, it's undesirable in the faith.

Prince doesn't want fame for many reasons IMO.

He's just quietly releasing quality.

Oh please Prince still wants the fame and fortune.He just wants it on his own terms.

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said:

Fans (who u'd think want more P music) saying "Prince should release less albums because he's saturating the market" are talking like labels executives.

I'd rather have Prince release an album a week and sell 5 copies of each tnan have him sell 5m of an album every five years

If this was the 90s when I was still a collector, I'd agree with you but nowadays... I find quality more important than quantity. I prefer one GOOD album every 3 years to two or three per year where you have to wade through 8 or 10 boring tunes to find that one hidden gem. So yes, I agree with Charisma. Waiting a little longer, writing some good songs and putting together a solid 45 minute LP woulda been much better than these throwaway albums. But let's see what phase 2 brings...

Thing is IMHO...

I'm not sure you'd necessarily get a better album. Prince wouldn't necessarily pick the best songs, at least by your own standards. So in the end we'd just get less stuff and I say better to have more stuff to pick up from, and u can always make your own compilations.

NorthC said:

That's true, we'll never agree what's good and what isn't. But I think he did a pretty good job with AOA, I'm still enjoying that one. HitnRun can wait...

I'd say the mere fact that we try has become a problem here at this point. It's not like every Prince fan is a critic or an expert.

Fast forward HnR phase 1 and welcome ASAP phase 2, to make up for this mess

daingermouz2020 said:

feeluupp said:

databank said:

Fans (who u'd think want more P music) saying "Prince should release less albums because he's saturating the market" are talking like labels executives.

I'd rather have Prince release an album a week and sell 5 copies of each tnan have him sell 5m of an album every five years

I agree with u on that... The question is, will it be harder for PRINCE to find distribution in the future say 5 years from now if his sales get to a point so low that the other side isn't making the profit they desire... 20Ten was the first example of PRINCE having a hard time shipping that album to labels for distribution... I just hope we continue to get more PRINCE albums on a constant basis regardless of sales or not.

This is a story made up by Bart that has no foot in reality. The only indication that P ever tried to get a distribution deal for 20ten was after the newspeper release, with WB Europe, for 20ten Deluxe, and the reason why it didn't happen are unknoiwn (but, given P's history, he's likely to be the cause of it). We can speculate all we want, we don't have the shadow of a fact indicating that prince wasn't able to find a label/distributor for this album.

Similarly, Bart made-up that other story (again a sheer product of imagination) about Kobalt refusing to release Plec, which again is absurd because if u look at Kobalt's roster on their website, it's mostly constituted of very obscure acts that you won't ever have heard of, and who obviously sell less than Prince.

If an artist of the calibre of Prince was unable to find a distributor then 99% of the hundreds of label-released albums that are being every month in the Western hemisphere would never see the light of day, as they sell much less than Prince ever will. Most of the artyists I listen to sell in terms of a few thousands, 10 to 20 thousand at most, and still they have labels and distributors.

Prince may not find labels willing to give him a million dollars advance, sure, but if it's only about finding a label to print a CD and distribute it, he won't have issues.

And anyway in the world of today he may just as well release an album a week by himself, on his own website, and we'd be able to buy them. Again I will cite John Zorn and Buckethead, who independtly and physically release an album respectively every other month and every other week, and still make a profit despite their fanbase being a matter of a few thousand.

I do not understand those worries about Prince being "unable to release his music". It's unrealistic. It simply can't happen. Not in 2015. Ask Terence Trent D'arby

he was pre-paid---he wins ...end of story

luvsexy4all said:

he was pre-paid---he wins ...end of story

Exactly. He probably doesn't give a shit the albums doesn't sell. He received his upfront cash and he can blame Josh (whom he appointed the 'real star' of this album) for bad sales if he needs/ wants to. Nothing lost for Prince!

pray4rain said:

Fast forward HnR phase 1 and welcome ASAP phase 2, to make up for this mess

You know very well that there will be no Phase 2.